Politics Thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xubrew

Do I think Trump is a crappy president? Yes

Do I want him out of office? Yes

Do I think what he did in Ukraine was wrong? Yes

Do I think that this particular incident was so wrong that it rose to the level of being impeachable and that he should be removed for it? Hell no.

Did the Dems really screw this up? I think that they did. When you want to fire someone when simply admonishing them is probably sufficient enough, then you come off as looking like an agenda driven asshole. And, that's what a lot of people are going to take away from this. On top of that, they had no chance of succeeding. He was not going to be removed. So, all they really did is push more people away.

---

Do I think Trump acts "presidential"? No.

Do I think Trump is a crappy president? No. By all economic measures, he's killing it.

Do I think what he did with the Ukraine aid was wrong? Hell no. They got their money...actually more than what we had agreed to give them.

Just curious as to what you Libs think about Creepy Joe Biden and his dealings with Ukraine...especially the video where he boasted of getting that prosecutor fired or he wouldn't give them that $1B. How about Unqualified Hunter Biden?

Adam Schiff and Jerry Nadler are bumbling fools who will stop at nothing to get Trump out of office because they know he can't be beat.

KAG!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lamont Sanford

Do I think Trump acts "presidential"? No.

Do I think Trump is a crappy president? No. By all economic measures, he's killing it.

Do I think what he did with the Ukraine aid was wrong? Hell no. They got their money...actually more than what we had agreed to give them.

Just curious as to what you Libs think about Creepy Joe Biden and his dealings with Ukraine...especially the video where he boasted of getting that prosecutor fired or he wouldn't give them that $1B. How about Unqualified Hunter Biden?

Adam Schiff and Jerry Nadler are bumbling fools who will stop at nothing to get Trump out of office because they know he can't be beat.

KAG!

---

I don't really identify as a "Lib," but I don't like it and wish he'd go away. I guess I think he'd do okay as president if he ended up winning, but there is something about going after a guy who wanted to investigate foul play because of how he went about investigating it, and then trying to elect the person who played foul in the first place, that could end up not working out for the Dems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lamont Sanford

Do I think Trump acts "presidential"? No.

Do I think Trump is a crappy president? No. By all economic measures, he's killing it.

Do I think what he did with the Ukraine aid was wrong? Hell no. They got their money...actually more than what we had agreed to give them.

Just curious as to what you Libs think about Creepy Joe Biden and his dealings with Ukraine...especially the video where he boasted of getting that prosecutor fired or he wouldn't give them that $1B. How about Unqualified Hunter Biden?

Adam Schiff and Jerry Nadler are bumbling fools who will stop at nothing to get Trump out of office because they know he can't be beat.

KAG!

---

Presidential? I agree. He doesn't act "presidential", assuming "presidential" means a stiff suite where form over substance often is the priority - Teleprompter Obama comes to mind. Nonetheless, he would do himself a favor if he could find a way to tone it down, ignore the idiots in the Far Left media, and just continue to rack up successful accomplishments.

Ukraine? Trump didn't do anything wrong, period, end of story. Once we get past tomorrow, I would love it if there comes a way to pull the curtain back on Biden and his son, as well as to find a way to send Schiff, a few FBI personnel and a couple others to prison. Some serious crimes were committed in bringing forward this impeachment farce.

Biden may be run out of this race. I don't believe certain people are going to let this go after tomorrow. He'll go into the history books as a minor, very corrupt figure.

Schiff and Nadler and Pelosi are bumbling fools. Schiff has already gone too far, as mentioned earlier. They're arrogance got stuffed in the Senate.

I can see why people, especially lifelong Democrats, don't like Trump over issues having to do with personality and perceptions about his past business dealings, etc. He is bombastic. There is no denying that. Then again, with about everyone against him, he has every right to go after a liberal media, but that doesn't mean that he can't rise above that fracase now and then. Talking over the media to the people through Twitter is fine, and it also isn't fine.

What I truly don't get is that, especially juxtaposed against a Democratic lineup that will increase regulation, screw up healthcare, blow up the energy sector, open our borders to anyone, and crap up job formation, why Democrats don't recognize that Trump is about the U.S. first and foremost, and that he has absolutely racked up some great accomplishments that set up the United States well for the future (a lot of focus on trade agreements with that last statement). When you consider Trump against the Sanders, Warren, and AOC crowd, the differences become staggering: a President who is focused on strengthening the United States for the benefit of all citizens versus a few of their ilk espousing the "benefits" of socialism to the United States of America, which would have dire consequences for most citizens.

Well said XUBREW. Cutting through all the partisan crap, the impeachment comes down to one simple question: is it OK for a sitting President to leverage his position to pressure a foreign country into saying something bad about a political rival?

To me, the answer is NO - he should have been removed. And if witnesses were called, the damning evidence would have been even stronger. Why were no witnesses called? Because the Dems refuses the 1-for-1 deal because they knew that would also take down their “anointed one”.

All this process has done is weaken our democracy. Every president now has the green light to cheat. Sad that people continue to prioritize their political party over the country. Sad, sad, sad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

Well said XUBREW. Cutting through all the partisan crap, the impeachment comes down to one simple question: is it OK for a sitting President to leverage his position to pressure a foreign country into saying something bad about a political rival?

To me, the answer is NO - he should have been impeached. And if witnesses were called, the damning evidence would have been even stronger. Why were no witnesses called? Because the Dems refuses the 1-for-1 deal because they knew that would also take down their “anointed one”.

All this process has done is weaken our democracy. Every president now has the green light to cheat. Sad that people continue to prioritize their political party over the country. Sad, sad, sad.

---

I agree that leveraging a foreign country for dirt on a political rival is not okay. Having said that, I think lots of presidents (and people in general) have done things that were not okay, but those things aren't so egregious that they require a nuclear response. Impeachment was overkill. And even if it wasn't (which it was) it was doomed to fail. And....it did. I think even most Republican senators feel that what he did was wrong, but that it wasn't so wrong that he should be removed from office for it. And, I actually agree with them.

Republicans are normally a lot smarter about these kinds of things, but if I were advising the Republican Party, I would have actually encouraged them to call witnesses. Two reasons: 1) Nothing any of the witnesses would have said would have made any difference. He was not going to be removed, and 2) This is a little more sinister, but it would have actually kept the Democratic frontrunners off of the campaign trail for longer.

Instead, it gave the dems the card of being able to say "They're trying to obstruct justice!!" Had they called witnesses, they would have still won, and the dems would not be able to make that claim. At least not as solidly as they can now.

The whole Biden - Ukraine deal is really what chaps my ass. I have read countless media pundits claim this nothing but a "theory". Really? A theory? We have the lying SOB on video bragging to an audience how he got the Ukrainian prosecutor fired to back off the investigation of Burisma or else they wouldn't get the $1B. There is no compelling evidence (like actual freaking video) that can be linked to Trump doing anything illegal.

MAGA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xubrew

there is something about going after a guy who wanted to investigate foul play because of how he went about investigating it, and then trying to elect the person who played foul in the first place, that could end up not working out for the Dems.

---

this logic for some reason has escaped a lot of people. or they just ignored it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

is it OK for a sitting President to leverage his position to pressure a foreign country into saying something bad about a political rival?

---

when did he do that? he asked them to "look into the biden thing", which, in my opinion, is fine.

it's just such a clearly partisan endeavour. like if jenna bush or someone like that was getting millions from a qatari oil company and obama was still president and asked their government to look into that, i'd have no problem with that. heck, i'd be in favor. i'd be in favor of many more corruption investigations regarding foreign money tbh. this was just the thinnest pretext to impeach someone over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

Well said XUBREW. Cutting through all the partisan crap, the impeachment comes down to one simple question: is it OK for a sitting President to leverage his position to pressure a foreign country into saying something bad about a political rival?

To me, the answer is NO - he should have been removed. And if witnesses were called, the damning evidence would have been even stronger. Why were no witnesses called? Because the Dems refuses the 1-for-1 deal because they knew that would also take down their “anointed one”.

All this process has done is weaken our democracy. Every president now has the green light to cheat. Sad that people continue to prioritize their political party over the country. Sad, sad, sad.

---

Wow.

Your "damning evidence" was false and illegal.

Schiff ran a corrupt process in the House and paid for it. Witnesses weren't called because they were not going to add anything new to the proceedings. And it wasn't the Senate's job to clean-up the House's blundered escapade.

You are right about the Democrats attempting to weaken our democracy through a sham impeachment process. BTW, it has been announced that the Senate will investigate the Ukraine whistleblower, the Bidens, and FISA warrant abuse, following the conclusion of President Donald Trump's impeachment trial.

I'm more concerned with the new precedence set in this process.
Having the Senate call witnesses would have at least balanced the powers of the branches.
As it is, a new "presidential immunity" has been created for all his advisors who were called to testify in the House and refused.
Not a claim of executive privilege, which is limited to particular conversations, but a blanket immunity from a legitimate House summons.
That does not bode well for our democracy.
People who favor the unitary executive theory are getting their wish. Hopefully it doesn't bite them in the ass someday.