Covid-19

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Originally Posted by xavierj

That’s another problem with the fear mongering. People are scared to go to the doctor or the hospital so instead if really sick might die. The whole thing from the get go is a cluster fuck that hasn’t done much good. Hopefully we learn not to overreact in the future and weigh the pros and cons of an entire nation vs the minority.

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Perhaps the current plan for reopening will pan out, but I was under the impression that we would develop a certain plan going forward so that businesses would stay open once open. It seems like this current plan in Ohio is a “let’s see how it goes” approach versus a definitive fool-proof plan. As a nation we are 3+ months into this, why haven’t we developed a rapid home test or something similar that can be mass produced? If you’re sick, stay home. If you’re not sick, go to work with precautions. It just seems that we missed a giant opportunity to nip this in the bud.

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

Numbers can be spun in any direction. For example, as of today, which country has the highest rate of new deaths normalized by population? It’s Sweden, averaging 6.8 deaths/day per million people over the last 7 days.

Not saying I side with this article, but for every op-Ed or slanted article posted, there is always a reasonable counterpoint.

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Fair. What you post is true. But, of course, the article was written from a UK perspective, where the Deaths per million is 501, vs Sweden's 361. And the models that projected Sweden's cases, the Imperial model, has been shown to be horribly inaccurate at best.

Meanwhile, while the "National Leaders" (I'll un-name to protect the Innocent) are under fire here in the US, America's death rate per million is only 263.
It would be a helluva lot lower too, if those "lauded" governors in the Northeast wouldn't have screwed up by sending 5,400 elderly to their deaths by ordering at risk folks back into the nursing homes and reduced the subway schedules to force more people to pack onto less trains. Nice nursing home decision by New Jersey too where over half the deaths are from the Nursing Home population.

Here is a new one, the city of Boston has to stay locked down because not enough people have been exposed to covid 19.

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Boston’s mayor has put his plans for reopening the city on ice after a new study revealed that nearly 90% of residents haven’t been exposed to the coronavirus.

Mayor Marty Walsh had intended to gradually lift Boston’s lockdown starting Monday but changed his mind when he learned of the findings. Other parts of Massachusetts, however, are beginning to restart their economies.

“We can draw two preliminary conclusions from the results of this study,” Walsh said at a news conference Friday. “First, that the actions we took early on in this pandemic made a real difference in slowing the spread and, second, that the majority of our population still have not been exposed to the virus. This underscores what we already know, that we have to move cautiously and stay focused on what got us this far.”

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https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/boston...ium=SocialFlow

Our government "leaders" are making up new shit as they go. It's also worth mentioning that Marty Walsh is one step above Tony Soprano.

Here's what liberals truly believe...can't wait until they find a vaccine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyXu...ture=emb_title

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Originally Posted by X Factor

Here's what liberals truly believe...can't wait until they find a vaccine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyXuPwsLGWI&feature=emb_title

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Biden just found his running mate for VP.

She is even more off her rocker then he is off his.

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Originally Posted by X Factor

Here's what liberals truly believe...can't wait until they find a vaccine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyXuPwsLGWI&feature=emb_title

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Glad that she's advocating getting rid of herself. #Jeezuz

Here’s some positive news about long-term immunity. It also may explain how so many infections are asymptomatic.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...term-immunity#

I'm 70, and 9-10 weeks into this, I still don't know of anyone who has had Covid 19. The article about T cells is very interesting. People in my age group mostly all had measles, chicken pox, and mumps as children. Could there be some lifetime T cell based immunity some of us developed ? I just find it strange that of all the people in their 60s and 70s I know, no one is ill. This includes 100 or so volunteers at the Hospital where I volunteered or the 40 or so people I played pickleball with every day.

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Originally Posted by JTG

I'm 70, and 9-10 weeks into this, I still don't know of anyone who has had Covid 19. The article about T cells is very interesting. People in my age group mostly all had measles, chicken pox, and mumps as children. Could there be some lifetime T cell based immunity some of us developed ? I just find it strange that of all the people in their 60s and 70s I know, no one is ill. This includes 100 or so volunteers at the Hospital where I volunteered or the 40 or so people I played pickleball with every day.

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I am in my late forty’s and have been working the whole time and I don’t know anyone either. None of my family or friends know anyone who has got it either. Really strange to be honest for something that is supposed to be super contagious. I have been to the Hone Depot a lot lately and the place is always packed yet where I live it just isn’t happening. Maybe we all developed some kind of immunity to it.

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Originally Posted by xavierj

.....Really strange to be honest for something that is supposed to be super contagious.....

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That’s a question I’d love to have someone ask Fauci, Acton, any of the medical professionals we keep hearing from. If this is so contagious, it’s probably safe to assume there are millions, maybe tens of millions, of people infected who are either asymptomatic, or recovered on their own. If that’s true, then the disease is nowhere near as fatal as we’ve been lead to believe. The fatality rate would be fractions of a percent.

If that’s not the case, then it’s not as contagious as we’ve been told. Again, that makes it not as fatal as we’ve been lead to believe. Yes, I know that social distancing is having an impact on the spread of the disease. Still, it seems to be not nearly as serious of a problem as we’ve been told.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

Here’s some positive news about long-term immunity. It also may explain how so many infections are asymptomatic.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...term-immunity#

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The research and studies on this thing are all over the place.

And here’s one more article about how catastrophic wrong models can be..as well as “narrative proving” reporting.
Please note, especially Paul, that Real Clear Politics is hugely unbiased, but strongly calls out the Washington Post and NY Times for their one-sided reporting.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...ns_143215.html

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Originally Posted by JTG

I'm 70, and 9-10 weeks into this, I still don't know of anyone who has had Covid 19. The article about T cells is very interesting. People in my age group mostly all had measles, chicken pox, and mumps as children. Could there be some lifetime T cell based immunity some of us developed ? I just find it strange that of all the people in their 60s and 70s I know, no one is ill. This includes 100 or so volunteers at the Hospital where I volunteered or the 40 or so people I played pickleball with every day.

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And I’ll be 70 later this year and same thing. Know no one who has gotten this and the same with everybody we know.
Where the hell is it?

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Originally Posted by bjf123

That’s a question I’d love to have someone ask Fauci, Acton, any of the medical professionals we keep hearing from. If this is so contagious, it’s probably safe to assume there are millions, maybe tens of millions, of people infected who are either asymptomatic, or recovered on their own. If that’s true, then the disease is nowhere near as fatal as we’ve been lead to believe. The fatality rate would be fractions of a percent.

If that’s not the case, then it’s not as contagious as we’ve been told. Again, that makes it not as fatal as we’ve been lead to believe. Yes, I know that social distancing is having an impact on the spread of the disease. Still, it seems to be not nearly as serious of a problem as we’ve been told.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Which is why testing is so key. Maybe we discover it isn’t a big deal? Maybe we discover herd immunity already exists? Maybe we find that we can isolate outbreaks and lift restrictions on everyone else? All of these are possible once we have actual data so we don’t need to rely on models based on incomplete or possibly inaccurate data.

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Originally Posted by Masterofreality

And I’ll be 70 later this year and same thing. Know no one who has gotten this and the same with everybody we know.
Where the hell is it?

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It is only affecting the global warming crowd.

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Originally Posted by STL_XUfan

Which is why testing is so key. Maybe we discover it isn’t a big deal? Maybe we discover herd immunity already exists? Maybe we find that we can isolate outbreaks and lift restrictions on everyone else? All of these are possible once we have actual data so we don’t need to rely on models based on incomplete or possibly inaccurate data.

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BUT!! Just because increased testing may indicate more positive cases it doesn’t mean much. The REAL measure is Hospitalizations and ICU’s. If they don’t go up much, wtf is the problem past a regular cold/flu?

CNN and the Times/Post/MSNBC/NBC/ABC reporting will have you believe that more cases is a disaster, when all it really is is just more data in the bank.
If those cases don’t get hospitalized then Big F-ing deal. All those reports are is more fear mongering.

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Originally Posted by Masterofreality

And here’s one more article about how catastrophic wrong models can be..as well as “narrative proving” reporting.
Please note, especially Paul, that Real Clear Politics is hugely unbiased, but strongly calls out the Washington Post and NY Times for their one-sided reporting.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...ns_143215.html

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I don't know much about RCP, but I do know that 538's Nate Silver is unquestionably on the left but has the same issues with the media's coverage of COVID. He was on Brian Stelter's podcast this weekend and laid out his three biggest issues:

1. Not enough recognition that the available data is very limited and imperfect and can lead to incorrect conclusions.
2. Not accounting enough for the uncertainty that is inherent in a brand new disease and being reluctant to recognize that what we know changes as more research happens.
3. Media worrying to much about the effect of their reporting instead of clearly stating facts. (For example, worry that a completely honest report would lead to people breaking lock downs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZZWzWvVCN0

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Originally Posted by Masterofreality

Please note, especially Paul, that Real Clear Politics is hugely unbiased, but strongly calls out the Washington Post and NY Times for their one-sided reporting.

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Huh? I'm not in this discussion. Sorry.

One more unbiased FACT FILLED report from outside the USA on this virus.

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

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Originally Posted by paulxu

Huh? I'm not in this discussion. Sorry.

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Because you always want to cite the Post & Times as “factual” you in fact are in this discussion Paul.

Just imagine for a second if Trump had said this:

https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/stat...29294203027459

But Cuomo is the liberals' voice of reason...

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/health-5...preading-virus

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Children 'seem less capable of spreading virus'
Children appear to be "less capable" of spreading coronavirus than adults, the World Health Organization's chief scientist has said.

Soumya Swaminathan told the BBC's Andrew Marr that the WHO hasn't observed any big outbreaks linked to regular school attendance.

While she also said children were at "very low risk of getting ill" from Covid-19, she added that more information is needed about a rare syndrome that may be linked to the virus.

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But sure, let's start the next school year with classes only being held two days a week like Dewine suggested.

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Originally Posted by Juice

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/health-5...preading-virus



But sure, let's start the next school year with classes only being held two days a week like Dewine suggested.

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He has no ability to see the big picture. His only focus is minimizing the spread while ignoring the damage is this doing to the kids socially, mentally and educationally. Does Dewine have anyone advising him besides for a Acton?

Edit: the news said some kids are turning red from covid. My daughter must have had it about a dozen times the, growing up.

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Originally Posted by Masterofreality

Because you always want to cite the Post & Times as “factual” you in fact are in this discussion Paul.

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My thoughts are as follows:
1 - Models are just that; models
2 - They can be good, or bad. Close or not so close to what actually happens
3 - I don't think doctors who try to model a virus are thinking politically. I think they are trying to be helpful.
4 - Sometimes they are going to miss, and miss by a lot.

But none of that in my mind is political. It's medical. It's science. It's estimates to try and help stop deaths. A virus can't think.
The fact that we characterize our responses to a virus as left, or right, or anything political, seems not productive at all to helping what we should do.

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

He has no ability to see the big picture. His only focus is minimizing the spread while ignoring the damage is this doing to the kids socially, mentally and educationally. Does Dewine have anyone advising him besides for a Acton?

Edit: the news said some kids are turning red from covid. My daughter must have had it about a dozen times the, growing up.

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In a word...no. In Springfield Mike's mind "Doctor" Amy Acton is the end-all-be-all. She is calling the shots in the state of Ohio. She has more political aspirations than Dementia Joe Biden. We are screwed here in Ohio. I have a hard time believing that schools will open their doors this Fall with her incompetency at the helm.

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Originally Posted by JTG

It is only affecting the global warming crowd.

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Well this is a pretty ignorant comment. I would imagine you interact with a fairly narrow group of people in a fairly narrow geographic cluster where (1) not many of them travel regularly for work etc. and (2) group think is pretty prevalent. I think it's great that Ohio and Indiana have fared so well with COVID and absolutely support lifting of lockdown measures. I also think Ohio was / is probably a little on the conservative side. Keep in mind that those are two relatively sparsely populated states, and just because something doesn't happen to somebody you know, doesn't mean it didn't happen. We have over 300MM people in this country.

I can tell you that here in the Northeast I have had multiple coworkers who have confirmed or suspected positive cases of COVID-19 as well as colleagues who have had close relatives die from COVID-19. One of my co-workers is from Queens. Basically his entire family got COVID.

Just because you guys don't know anyone in Indiana or Ohio who has had it doesn't mean it's not real.

Isn't ohio opening up the pools though at least? Here in socialist kentucky, governor dipshit doesn't think people can make their own decisions.

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Originally Posted by Xville

Isn't ohio opening up the pools though at least? Here in socialist kentucky, governor dipshit doesn't think people can make their own decisions.

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I really want to make a Kentucky joke here, but I'll refrain.

Kentucky doesn't have pools open yet? NJ just opened beaches and (for some reason) fishing charters among other things. I'm hoping pools are soon to follow. My family's quality of life in the summer is highly dependent on it.

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Originally Posted by Xville

Isn't ohio opening up the pools though at least? Here in socialist kentucky, governor dipshit doesn't think people can make their own decisions.

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Based on the scenes at Blind Pig and Rosedale over the weekend, it appears that at least some people and businesses cannot be trusted to make smart decisions. (however, shout out to all of the bars and restaurants that followed the rules and found creative solutions to expand seating)

No pools in Kansas yet, either, and according to the latest edict from the governor no pools for Memorial Day weekend. However, there's supposed to be some sort of legislative revolt in the next couple of days in Kansas to ease restrictions, so we'll see what happens. Youth baseball was supposed to start today as we entered "Phase 2" of reopening, but we ended up with a Phase 1.5 that specifically prohibits sports games and practices. So my team tonight is just having an informal gathering at a park where there may or may not be efforts to refine skills related to the playing of baseball.

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Originally Posted by STL_XUfan

Based on the scenes at Blind Pig and Rosedale over the weekend, it appears that at least some people and businesses cannot be trusted to make smart decisions. (however, shout out to all of the bars and restaurants that followed the rules and found creative solutions to expand seating)

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Pictures from a different angle of the Blind Pig showed a slightly different story than those pushed by failed City council flunkies and the City Beat.

And also, who gives a shit? Don't go to a bar then. It was outside. Outside transmission has proven to be basically impossible.

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Originally Posted by boozehound

Well this is a pretty ignorant comment. I would imagine you interact with a fairly narrow group of people in a fairly narrow geographic cluster where (1) not many of them travel regularly for work etc. and (2) group think is pretty prevalent. I think it's great that Ohio and Indiana have fared so well with COVID and absolutely support lifting of lockdown measures. I also think Ohio was / is probably a little on the conservative side. Keep in mind that those are two relatively sparsely populated states, and just because something doesn't happen to somebody you know, doesn't mean it didn't happen. We have over 300MM people in this country.

I can tell you that here in the Northeast I have had multiple coworkers who have confirmed or suspected positive cases of COVID-19 as well as colleagues who have had close relatives die from COVID-19. One of my co-workers is from Queens. Basically his entire family got COVID.

Just because you guys don't know anyone in Indiana or Ohio who has had it doesn't mean it's not real.

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Ignorant huh? It was sarcasm. The issue is there are 330 mil, and only about 30mil are in the Northeast. That leaves 90% of the US that are not, repeat NOT in dire straights. Your locale is coloring the big picture. I mentioned roughly 140 people in the "danger age group" and none thankfully are sick or died.The country doesn't end at the Hudson River. The sooner you and the MSM realize this, the sooner the accurate reporting of Covid will start.

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Originally Posted by Juice

Pictures from a different angle of the Blind Pig showed a slightly different story than those pushed by failed City council flunkies and the City Beat.

And also, who gives a shit? Don't go to a bar then. It was outside. Outside transmission has proven to be basically impossible.

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The don't go then crowd really seems to miss the point. The people who do go have lives that involve them interacting with people who would choose not to go. I am guessing some of these people are healthcare workers even. Or they have family they see who wouldn't go, or co-workers they work with who wouldn't go, or people they come in contact with a the store who wouldn't go.

I am not saying that the bars and restaurants shouldn't be open now, I think they should but they should be following the orders put in place. That is to protect the people there and then the people that they then go interact with. It's pretty dense to say well then just don't go. Well as long as those people who do go aren't going anywhere else then perfect I wont care.

And outside transmission is low when you are walking or biking or running etc or spread out enjoying a park. But if you are in a packed environment just because you are outside doesn't mean it is "basically impossible" to get.

Many colleges and universities are talking about reopening in the Fall with students on campus, but with new rules for social distancing.

Geez, that's great!!

The "you're-not-allowed-to-drink-until-you're-21" rule that literally every campus has is obeyed by almost no one. Any social distancing rules that are put in place will be obeyed by even fewer people. It's COMPLETE nonsense to think that you can have students on campus and maintain social distancing.

I'm not saying campuses shouldn't reopen. In fact, I'm hoping that they do. But if college administrators actually believe they can open and maintain social distancing, then it is my belief that they are too freakin' stupid to be a college administrator and in the best interest of humanity should resign immediately!

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

The don't go then crowd really seems to miss the point. The people who do go have lives that involve them interacting with people who would choose not to go. I am guessing some of these people are healthcare workers even. Or they have family they see who wouldn't go, or co-workers they work with who wouldn't go, or people they come in contact with a the store who wouldn't go.

I am not saying that the bars and restaurants shouldn't be open now, I think they should but they should be following the orders put in place. That is to protect the people there and then the people that they then go interact with. It's pretty dense to say well then just don't go. Well as long as those people who do go aren't going anywhere else then perfect I wont care.

And outside transmission is low when you are walking or biking or running etc or spread out enjoying a park. But if you are in a packed environment just because you are outside doesn't mean it is "basically impossible" to get.

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How long do you propose doing this then? Because by your standards, everyone who could have contact with someone who could have contact with someone who might be at risk is bullshit. These restrictions would never end then because this thing isn't going away.

If you're a person who might come into contact with someone at risk, then you should change your lifestyle, not everyone else. This shared sacrifice stuff is bullshit because it's not shared. It's punishing a majority because a minority is scared.

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Originally Posted by xubrew

Many colleges and universities are talking about reopening in the Fall with students on campus, but with new rules for social distancing.

Geez, that's great!!

The "you're-not-allowed-to-drink-until-you're-21" rule that literally every campus has is obeyed by almost no one. Any social distancing rules that are put in place will be obeyed by even fewer people. It's COMPLETE nonsense to think that you can have students on campus and maintain social distancing.

I'm not saying campuses shouldn't reopen. In fact, I'm hoping that they do. But if college administrators actually believe they can open and maintain social distancing, then it is my belief that they are too freakin' stupid to be a college administrator and in the best interest of humanity should resign immediately!

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Yeah agree. It isnt feasible to expect college students to social distance. How would that even work with dorms? Classes? Plus even if you figured out how to do that they will all go out to parties together off campus.

Either open up and don't expect social distancing or don't open up.

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Originally Posted by Juice

How long do you propose doing this then? Because by your standards, everyone who could have contact with someone who could have contact with someone who might be at risk is bullshit. These restrictions would never end then because this thing isn't going away.

If you're a person who might come into contact with someone at risk, then you should change your lifestyle, not everyone else. This shared sacrifice stuff is bullshit because it's not shared. It's punishing a majority because a minority is scared.

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I'm not the expert. I don't know how long. I do know the right decision is probably not to ignore all the orders put in place within the first week of opening up.

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Originally Posted by JTG

Ignorant huh? It was sarcasm. The issue is there are 330 mil, and only about 30mil are in the Northeast. That leaves 90% of the US that are not, repeat NOT in dire straights. Your locale is coloring the big picture. I mentioned roughly 140 people in the "danger age group" and none thankfully are sick or died.The country doesn't end at the Hudson River. The sooner you and the MSM realize this, the sooner the accurate reporting of Covid will start.

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The sarcasm defense. Love it. Me and the MSM really eat that one up! Making sweeping generalizations based on virtually no knowledge is fun, huh?

I actually agree that it's probably past time for the minimally-impacted areas to significantly reduce restrictions, and not because you and 4 other dudes on a message board don't know anyone with COVID. We don't (nor will we ever likely) know what impact we had by clamping down the way we did. At a minimum keeping people from traveling to/around NYC for business probably helped the rest of the Country out quite a bit. Once we were 2 weeks removed from people potentially having been exposed to one of the hot spot areas we should start lifting restrictions. Taking some precautions for a while is probably still a good idea though.

BTW: I grew up in Michigan and moved to Ohio in the early 1990's when I was 10. In 2018 I moved to New Jersey. So I've been here a whopping almost 2 years compared to my 25 years in Ohio. I still remember that Ohio exists.

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

I'm not the expert. I don't know how long. I do know the right decision is probably not to ignore all the orders put in place within the first week of opening up.

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Screw you and your underlying conditions!

In all seriousness - I agree that the most beneficial thing for all of us is if we can open things up without a significant increase in cases. We should be taking reasonable precautions to ensure that occurs. To me, that means that for at least a few weeks / a month a phased reopening makes all the sense in the world. Open things up steadily on a 1-2 week schedule starting with the lowest risk activities and moving toward higher risk ones. That way if you do see a massive spike in cases you can better pinpoint the cause.

I also think that there is a privilege that impacts people's views on this, along with the fact that it has (for some reason) become a political issue.

Consider the following scenarios:

1. People with higher incomes, but also higher cost structures who are being significantly impacted economically. Many small business owners fall into this category along with people who make good money but spend a lot and have a lot of bills. These people tend to be aggressively pro re-opening. They are facing what feels like an existential risk.

2. People with lower incomes that are unemployed as a result of COVID. Particularly with the changes to unemployment many of these people are pretty OK with this dragging out for a while since their economic situation hasn't changed. Bonus for some is that they don't have to go to work now.

3. People who haven't really been economically effected by this at all. Opinions in this group vary, but they have a privilege of not being negatively impacted. It includes Nurses, Police Officers, other 'essential' personnel and people like myself who are in industries that haven't been (and aren't likely to be) impacted negatively and in jobs in which they can easily work from home.

The group 1 people obviously want to open things up NOW. The other two groups don't have an immediate economic need for business to re-open so they get to be more conservative with remaining at home.