Is that a lot? We have 327 million people and 50 states. Doesn’t New York account for over 30% of that?Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
Printable View
Is that a lot? We have 327 million people and 50 states. Doesn’t New York account for over 30% of that?Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
Yes it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by xavierj
That’s an average of about 30-40 people per state per day, but NY makes the numbers much worse. A state like Texas and 30 million people has less than 1,000 deaths. Yeah New York has a lot. The country as a whole, not so much. And how many of the 58k were true Covid deaths? How many were ill and approaching death prior. Yeah throw out a big number like it’s crazy and then peel it back and realize that it’s not really that bad. Loss of life is awful, but it happens everyday with or without a virus.Quote:
Originally Posted by STL_XUfan
Add in that hospitals get more money for COVID-19 deaths vs. heart failure and you can really question the accuracy of the numbers.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It would be interesting to see a comparison of health-related (non-accident/murder/suicide) deaths this year vs. past years. That could be very telling.Quote:
Originally Posted by xavierj
I’m not sure about everywhere but I can assure that this is not happening with any hospitals that I am familiar- which is most in the cleveland area... yet. There are specific billing codes involved for this, and the penalty for over billing insurances is hefty. It’s not worth the extra 20%.Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf123
Looks like things are getting a little tense in Ohio.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/d...emitic-attacks
Is "globalist" really an anti-semitic slur? I'm pleased to not really be up on these sorts of things.
NY is actually trending downward on the number of hospitalizations and deaths. We’ve been home now for 54 days. My wife has worked from home and my business is completely shut down.
But here’s the thing. Most national news media is NYC centric. So the fact that NY is actually taking it very seriously and doing the right things, other areas of the country think it may apply to them too. It. Does. Not.
I’m wearing a mask every time I go anywhere (infrequently). Social distancing is the norm, every cashier has a mask, gloves and a plastic barrier between the customer and them.
We will see if this is an overreaction, but I’d rather to overreact to something that has already killed 70,000 than underreact.
And hi everybody!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf123
The Rural Hospitals are all going belly up, so you shouldn't have to worry too long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
Who thinks NYC did anything right?!?
Do I think hospitals are flat out lying about causes of death? No. But, if you don’t think they might put down COVID-19 if there’s any way it could possibly have been a contributing factor, I think you’re being naive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think your perception of how a hospital receives money may be skewed. What do you mean “put down COVID?” It’s not like there’s a checkbox on a claim submission for a COVID bonus. That’s not how it works. If anything, COVID deaths have been under reported, more than making up for any contrived fudging you may perceive there to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf123
Yeah one accusation by one politician, who essentially walked it back, and now this is a talking point for those trying to downplay the virus (which is already less than the models, so why anyone tries to downplay it more?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
Welp. Even USA Today found it true that Hospitals got paid more. Don't be so naive to think that Hospital billers don't know how to code conditions to get paid, and paid the Max. It happens all the time, Covid or no Covid. My Brother in Law is a VP at Lutheran, a Cleveland Clinic hospital. He's told me this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
And absolutely no way that desths are being under reported They even have a "Presumed" statistic where they count anybody who might have come in contact with an infected person.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us/3000638001/
They found it true the hospitals get paid more, not that they were fraudulently billing or inflating their numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterofreality
Yes and it says this in the article posted literally word for word:Quote:
Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z
“ There have been no public reports that hospitals are exaggerating COVID-19 numbers to receive higher Medicare payments.
Jensen didn't explicitly make that claim. He simply suggested there is an "avenue" to do so now that "plausible" COVID-19, not just laboratory-confirmed, cases can be greenlighted for Medicare payment and eligible for the 20% add-on allowed under the relief act.”
Perhaps a better method to estimate deaths 'truly' attributable to COVID-19 would be to look at the variance in deaths during the pandemic in relation to prior years total death rates. You assume that the variance is largely attributable to COVID. Those numbers would suggest that, if anything, we have understated the COVID death toll. Here is an (admittedly a little dated) article around that methodology.Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf123
COVID-19 Death Toll Undercounted
Theoretically this method would also weed out some of the impact of people who would have died anyways but happened to catch COVID and have it listed as cause of death and may give a more accurate forecast of the death toll (or at a minimum another data point).
I'm not sure why some people feel the need to minimize the death toll. Yes, the media is over-dramatizing this. Particularly for the majority of the Midwest, Mountain West, etc. In NYC and surrounding areas it really is a big deal. They have so many dead that they can't handle the bodies. That should probably be a sign that this is serious (for them) and has the potential to be serious for other places if they have outbreaks of similar magnitude.
I think it's the right thing to start opening things up in many of the states with limited outbreaks, but we should probably still take this seriously and we need widespread, accurate, testing ASAP if we are going to get things moving again (and keep them moving).
No...not even close. The author is a left-wing hack from a left wing rag. Anything to stoke the flames of hate! For the life of me I can't understand why anyone reads that crap. Brietbart, Huffpost, Thinkprogress= Sheep foodQuote:
Originally Posted by GoMuskies
Roughly equivalent to smoking. And every life is so precious we had to shut down the country, yet we haven't banned smoking.Quote:
Originally Posted by STL_XUfan
Considering that Gov Cuomo now has like a 77% approval rating (and 53% from Republicans)...I think a lot of people must believe that.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMuskies
Now, if you blame DeBlosi for NYC and not Cuomo...then you might be right Go. I think both are to blame for the issues in NYC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z
And did the word "Fraud" appear anywhere in that post? Uh, no. BUT, do not tell me that if there is a judgement call, which there many times are, as to whether a patient had a case of the normal flu, or another respiratory ailment that the hospital coder didn't use the Covid code as a classification.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
Look. I see this happen all the time on the EOB's I receive in the mail. The diagnosis is conveniently changed to something where the provider will be ensured to get paid, or paid more. Be real here.
Yet state and local government have greatly restricted where that activity can take place. Including not permitting it in bars, restaurants, grocery stores, near the entrances to buildings, etc. to avoid exposing people to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdiggins
Well, this may change that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamont Sanford
Cuomo signed the edict forcing nursing homes to accept civic recoverers & now claiming the nursing homes makes the re entry determination.
New York state is reporting more than 1,700 previously undisclosed deaths at nursing homes and adult care facilities, as Cuomo faces scrutiny over protecting vulnerable residents during the coronavirus pandemic. Per NBC breaking news.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...41/ncrd1200311
C'mon MOR.....your post was in direct response to someone who was stating that they didnt think hospitals were fraudulently billing for COVID-19.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterofreality
Do I think that may happen? Possibly. Do I think it is happening to the amount that some people want to think it is that it is artificially bloating the numbers, no. I still think if anything it is under-reported based on things I know and have seen myself.
Unfortunately this whole pandemic stuff is turning our medical community into political talking heads. Watch one show a person says this and flip the station and you hear something completely different.
I know it’s normal political theater for Fox, CNN, and MSNBC (you can name anyone’s favorite paper as well), but really sad to see how it’s been played out when it comes to this disease. Guess whoever said it was right, “everything is politics.”
I think it's a bit odd that Cuomo has such a high approval rating. He gives nice press conferences and has witty banter with his brother who likes to go out on walks while positive for COVID and verbally harass bikers, but NYC was a complete dumpster fire. Not sure how anyone can see that and say, "Gee, New Yorkers sure are doing everything right here!".Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamont Sanford
That's all it takes for our country to think someone is effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMuskies
Totally agreed Go. Keep in mind that Cuomo is the new MSM media darling and most Dems hope that Dementia Joe's past sexual assault issues will derail his bid for President so they can go with Cuomo (and Michelle O) as their ticket come November to defeat the Trumpster.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMuskies
C'mon DWest. No one ever said fraud. But do you believe that the data isn't being skewed toward Covid data entering? It absolutely is. It's not fraud, but it's certainly taking the gray area to your side...and for the money. it's no different than when you have a 50/50 item that may or may not be deductible on your Tax Return. Are you not going to put it on there if there is a question? Of course you are. That is human, and business natute. Don't deny it. And where the hell is the evidence that cases are being underreported? Wouldn't it seem that there would be pressure to overreport to justify the faulty models that have been put out there?Quote:
Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z
As always, follow the money. And the hospitals have to in every case because the of wrong headed move - Based upon faulty modeling- by the Governor to stop non-essential procedures that bring in cash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdiggins
…..or alcohol, 3rd leading cause of death after being too fat. Let's ban fat people too.
Let me go back to the initial post since it is again being twisted and contorted into a different discussion. Post 1644: “Add in that hospitals get more money for COVID-19 deaths vs. heart failure and you can really question the accuracy of the numbers.”
If there is a patient that was admitted for heart failure, yet the hospital billed the insurance using a COVID code to claim an extra 20% on a service, that is insurance fraud. That is nothing like claiming a 50/50 deduction on one’s taxes, it’s like claiming a false deduction. Every patient admitted for heart failure is getting tested for COVID, so unless that test is positive they are not billing for the extra 20%. MOR- ask your BIL if they are billing with a COVID diagnosis to gain an extra 20% if the patient tests negative for COVID...
The number are inherently under reported, more so in rural areas. They aren’t running post mortem tests on anyone in these areas and I have spoken with ER docs/EMTs that have people arrive DOA. The hospital isn’t getting paid for that and they want that patient out of there ASAP to not have exposure in case it was COVID. Look at the number of total deaths compared to 2019 during the same time period, subtract COVID deaths and there is still a large disparity.
Exclusive: Government scientist Neil Ferguson resigns after breaking lockdown rules to meet his married lover
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...igns-breaking/
Quote:
The scientist whose advice prompted Boris Johnson to lock down Britain resigned from his Government advisory position on Tuesday night as The Telegraph can reveal he broke social distancing rules to meet his married lover.
Professor Neil Ferguson allowed the woman to visit him at home during the lockdown while lecturing the public on the need for strict social distancing in order to reduce the spread of coronavirus. The woman lives with her husband and their children in another house.
The epidemiologist leads the team at Imperial College London that produced the computer-modelled research that led to the national lockdown, which claimed that more than 500,000 Britons would die without the measures.
Prof Ferguson has frequently appeared in the media to support the lockdown and praised the "very intensive social distancing" measures.
Heart failure is really not the issue. What about COPD or other respiratory diseases that may need a ventilator? Don't skirt, Lloyd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
Don't tell me that there aren't gray areas that are being classified as Covid. There are. And I didn't author post 1644, but you've decided to lump it in with others to maybe, errrr, twist???
My Brother In Law at Lutheran tells me that the 3 most vulnerable groups from Covid are Front Line Health Care Workers, Nursing Home Residents, and people who have pre-existing Obesity. Those are the groups and not necessarily the general public. Of course no one will admit that they are committing fraud. What kind of question is that? And to repeat, I never said anything about out and out fraud, but what is a gray area affliction. Who's gonna check anyway? Is the government jack booted thugs gonna storm the Hospital with subpoenas right now? I highly doubt it.
I didn’t bring up heart failure, MOR, but I do agree that a heart failure patient could be an avenue of potential COVID fraud. I will go ahead and make a blanket statement to avoid you interpreting me a “skirting” even though it’s plain black and white. Anyone that is admitted to the hospital for respiratory symptoms or is on a vent has been tested for COVID. That covers COPD, heart failure, pneumonia, respiratory infection of any kind, pulmonary embolism, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterofreality
Perhaps in the community there are gray areas being classified as COVID (hence the “presumed cases”), but in the hospital it is known exactly to the number how many patients are there with COVID.
Ok. That is a fair response.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
But back to the issue of money, I would be willing to wager a substantial amount of caish that “gray area” afflictions- especially of the respiratory kind are being lumped into a Covid category. It has been clearly shown that medical facilities are getting paid more if a Covid classification is used. Which has been the point of this recent discussion.
That being said, I remain unconvinced and skeptical of “underreporting” anything. It’s counterproductive to, especially, the government narrative.
Well, I was the author of post 1644. Let me clarify. I wasn’t saying there is rampant fraud with hospitals indicating that every death is COVID related. I am saying, as others have pointed out, that if it’s a grey area and there’s any way they could attribute COVID as a contributing factor, however small that factor might be, they’re going to do it to get the extra funding. Why wouldn’t they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterofreality
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'd actually be strongly in favor of banning fat people. Could use my whole seat at a basketball game, or on an airplane, instead of sharing it with some lardassQuote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
Scott Gottlieb, MD
@ScottGottliebMD
Data from community cancer practices shows sharp drops in oncology visits, including up to 17% decline for chemotherapy in Northeast, while cancellations and no-shows nearly doubled, up to 80%; an indication shutdowns will have broad public health impacts.
https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/...26211800825858
Then there is this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox17.c...spike-in-calls
These are both classic examples of the inability of our society to see indirect effects.
Also, who flanks all of our executive branch leaders during this time? Doctors and... well just doctors. But this is not only a medical issue - Doctors are just a piece of the puzzle! Where are the Psychologists, the Virologists, the Economists? Epidemiologists, Statisticians and Sociologists? Nothing. Until we view this problem holistically we will cause more harm than good.