Covid-19

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Originally Posted by tacopizza885

So, it appears that even in small town America the coronavirus cannot escape you (even with Jesus's blessing). I posted a while back about my 70 yr old (plus) parents, and the concern I had about their well being. For those living in the city (or suburbs), imagine having one grocery store to go shop at, one church to worship at, and a handful of favorite restuarants to eat at. On top of that, imagine a community of about 3K people believing this virus is a "hoax", masks were a democrat conspiracy, and the "economy rules" over human well being.

The town's annual festival was cancelled by the town's city council (because of COVID-19)... but not to be outdone, the townspeople had their own festival (referencing Jesus), which resulted in 40+ COVID positive tests, and quite a few hospital visits. SomeoneI know personally, entered the ICU, for heart blockage and circulation issues. Under 50 yrs old, and perfectly healthy.

In addition, both of my parents have COVID-19. My worst fear. Fortunately, they are doing well, but have had a battle.

btw, I don't dislike religious people or am I hateful towards spiritual people. I love religious people, but I think the historical Jesus would have some confrontrations with the modern Trump supporter.

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I said a prayer for your parents and their community.

To add to what Bleedxblue said, this is not about Trump. It’s about freedom and liberty. The folks in that community can make their own decisions about how they want to live their life. If they choose to engage in the enjoyment of a community event with the risk, it’s their choice. If it’s their choice to avoid the risk and stay home, that too is their choice. We don’t need big brother government telling people what they can or can’t do.

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

Bobbie I have given up any hope of you of having any input beyond what is spoon fed to you by CNN. You can save the time responding.

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All you do is quote conspiracy theorists nutjobs from the far right. Stop spending your days on infowars.

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

The folks in that community can make their own decisions about how they want to live their life. If they choose to engage in the enjoyment of a community event with the risk, it’s their choice. If it’s their choice to avoid the risk and stay home, that too is their choice. We don’t need big brother government telling people what they can or can’t do.

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Except their choice isn't made in a vacuum and will not only impact them. Their "personal choice" will have ripple effects that will impact all of us. I do not know what town tacopizza is referring to, but I lived in a town of similar size. My guess is that their hospital is not well equipped to handle all of these people getting sick at once and will be quickly overran.

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Originally Posted by STL_XUfan

Except their choice isn't made in a vacuum and will not only impact them. Their "personal choice" will have ripple effects that will impact all of us. I do not know what town tacopizza is referring to, but I lived in a town of similar size. My guess is that their hospital is not well equipped to handle all of these people getting sick at once and will be quickly overran.

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Amen. By Muskie in Dayton's "reasoning", people ought to be able to smoke anywhere they like because they get to decide (their own) risk tolerance.

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Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee

All you do is quote conspiracy theorists nutjobs from the far right. Stop spending your days on infowars.

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My opinions are my own, arrived from my life experiences. My only right wing opinions are those arrived in that manner.

Also, the term “conspiracy theory” is what liberals throw around in attempt to quickly discredit those of differing opinions. It’s the new “racist”.

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Originally Posted by STL_XUfan

Except their choice isn't made in a vacuum and will not only impact them. Their "personal choice" will have ripple effects that will impact all of us. I do not know what town tacopizza is referring to, but I lived in a town of similar size. My guess is that their hospital is not well equipped to handle all of these people getting sick at once and will be quickly overran.

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No, the only other people who will be affected are those who choose to live their lives. If someone wants to self isolate, they will not be affected.

And lost on all of this debate is the fact that lockdowns cause more deaths than they prevent. If you doubt that you are simply not paying attention.

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

So in a strange twist of serendipity, my two favorite topics have converged: the horrible policy of lockdowns, and biased mainstream media.

A few months ago I cited on this board a Twitter thread from a certain Ohio State Buckeye fan who moonlights doing Covid statistical analysis. His name is Kyle Lamb (@kylamb8). He recently accepted an entry level position with the Governor of FL, supporting Covid data tracking.

Well the media is apparently scared shitless of the damage that this guy can do, as they went all-out Nick Sandman on him. They unleashed an all-out hit job trying to "cancel" him, again exposing their seedy underbelly. Here is a great thread recapping the situation in a nice expose of MSM filth:
https://twitter.com/FD2403/status/13...926847488?s=20

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https://www.miamiherald.com/news/cor...247081417.html
Fixed that for you. Here is a link to article that reviews Lamb's history, credentials, and what his colleagues have to say about him:

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

No, the only other people who will be affected are those who choose to live their lives. If someone wants to self isolate, they will not be affected.

And lost on all of this debate is the fact that lockdowns cause more deaths than they prevent. If you doubt that you are simply not paying attention.

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That simply isn't true. What if I have a heart attack? You don't think whether the hospital has ICU capacity might impact me? What about the employees at the hospital that have to treat those people that live their life, seems like it may have an impact on them?

I am not advocating for a full lockdown. I think we know enough about the spread that people are able to resume most aspects of their lives except those activities that are high risk. But for that to work people need to buy in and take this shit seriously. But instead we have a groups of people that 1) don't believe it is real or 2) believe it is real but it won't impact them. This thinking then leads the scene that Taco described.

I would love nothing more than to believe that people could be trusted to make smart decisions so that we do not need government "telling us what to do." Unfortunately the evidence so far shows that not to be the case.

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Originally Posted by X-man

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/cor...247081417.html
Fixed that for you. Here is a link to article that reviews Lamb's history, credentials, and what his colleagues have to say about him:

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It's amazing when you think about it. Never have people had easy access to the type of information and knowledge that we can all access today. Instead we choose to prop up the most aggressively ignorant among us.

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Originally Posted by XU_Lou

Lloyd - you're proving my point. The mask mandates are completely futile. Not only do masks not work from a technical perspective (there are several studies: https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/), but they will never work from a practical perspective. You've brought up the question as to whether people who claim to wear masks all the time actually wear them all the time. What your saying is that for masks to be an effective mitigation tool requires people to wear them 100% of the time. Not just while out and about grocery shopping, but while eating dinner at their dining table, on the sofa while watching TV, and in bed so as to not spread to their spouse at night. I'm sorry to tell you, but no matter how many dictatorial proclamations come from governors and mayors, this will n-e-v-e-r happen!

The only way to stop the virus is for everyone around the world to be completely 100% isolated from all other human beings for at least 2-3 weeks - again, that ain't gonna happen.

I'm sorry to give you all a dose of reality, but to think that masks and lockdowns are going to control the spread of Covid is pure hubris. Show me where it has worked? Anywhere? I'm sorry, but we're going to have to let Covid run it's natural course. We've learned from it, and we can do things to mitigate its severity for most people.

The public policy should be that those with high risks should take steps to protect themselves. The rest of the population should get on with living life - I mean, we only have one. Someone on this board posted this several months ago. I don't know who it was, but I copied the quote because it remains so apropos:

“So the options are:

1) Hide from it for the next few years until a vaccine is discovered.
2) Go live my life albeit cautiously and maybe get it someday and have a 99.8% chance of survival.

I’ll go with 2. The first one sounds worse than death to me.”

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The statement "masks don't work," is a little too generalized. In reality masks help if you're sick from transmitting it to another person, may have some level of protection since you aren't getting a full load of respiratory droplets to the face. The rational is if all individuals (regardless of symptoms) wear a mask, it primarily contains secretions, and prevents transmission from individuals with infection (especially ones that are asymptomatic). If you have an acute respiratory illness, you should self-isolate at home (preferably away from other people), and if you have to be around other people wear a mask. The most recent studies claim masks provide source control and reduce transmission in the community, although supported by indirect evidence. [Cloth Masks May Prevent Transmission of COVID-19: An Evidence-Based, Risk-Based Approach, Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks., Surgical mask partition reduces the risk of non-contact transmission in a golden Syrian hamster model for Coronavirus Disease 2019., Efficacy of face mask in preventing respiratory virus transmission: A systemic review and meta-analysis., Physical distancing, face masks, and eye protection to prevent person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19: a systemic review and meta analysis.

A retrospective study of 124 patients with confirmed COVID-19 and their families in Beijing found secondary transmission occurred in 41 families, and use of masks by family members (including index patient) prior to illness onset in that index patient was independently associated with reduced risk of infection. Reduction of secondary transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in hourseholds by face mask use, disinfection, and social distance: a cohort study in Beijing, China.

Another case report showed two hair stylists with COVID-19 who worked while symptomatic prior to the diagnosis but wore face coverings had no subsequent diagnoses among 139 clients with close contact (all of those clients also wearing face coverings). Another study that included 17 patients with common cold COVID infections, a use of a medical mask eliminated detectable viral RNA in dropset and aerosol particles collected from exhaled breath (but note viral RNA was only detected in 30-40% not wearing masks. Absence of Apparent Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from Two Stylists After Exposure at a Hair Salon with a Universal Face Covering Policy - Springfield, Missouri, May 2020

In a report of 382 service members surveyed on personal preventative strategies of a COVID outbreak on a US Navy aircraft carrier, self-report of wearing a face cover was independently associated with a lower likelihood of infection (Odds Ratio of 0.3), as were avoiding common areas (OR of 0.6), and observing social distancing (OR 0.5). [Odds ratio less than 1 means the presence of one event reduces the odds of another event]SARS-CoV-2 Infections and Serological Responses from a Sample of U.S. Navy Service Members - USS Theodore Roosevelt, April 2020

Sure, is your plan logical and does it make sense? Absolutely, people should assess their own risks and act accordingly. However in the last 8 months, has there been even any slight indication that people are able to do that?? I don't think so, there's too much misinformation and people with way too extreme of viewpoints, not to mention how the damn social media age just amplifies all the crazy. My biggest take away point here is, does wearing a damn mask for a couple hours REALLY decrease your quality of life that much? You're not wearing it for yourself if you're low risk, you're wearing it because you may be asymptomatic and then cough on that 83 year old grandma in the supermarket and now she's intubated and hospitalized, and someone loses a family member before they were supposed to. Just wear the damn thing.