Politics Thread

Let me remind everyone what a great country we live in: IMHO there is one simple underlying mechanism that enables just about every American to get out of life and this country what they want to. It's the desire and work ethic to want to get ahead. And this is all about doing this ON YOUR OWN. If you have an expectation or have been brought up in an environment that this is someone else's responsibility, you are going to be for a long, tough haul in life. Sure, there are those that have been given an a head start and an advantage over others, but nothing is more important than work ethic and the desire for more. Our system of government and democracy/capitalism in general is not sustainable (long term) without individuals contributing more than they receive in return. Obama, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Trump....doesn't matter who the President is or what party has the house majority. It doesn't really matter who gets appointed to the Supreme Court. If and when the average American expects their government to bail them out and provide assistance for whatever it is they they are in need of, we are screwed.

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Originally Posted by bleedXblue

If and when the average American expects their government to bail them out and provide assistance for whatever it is they they are in need of, we are screwed.

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The largest corporations and wealthiest Americans get bailouts and government assistance in the form of massive tax breaks all the time. Why is it ok for them but not for lower and middle class Americans? It seems like welfare is ok if it goes to Fortune 500 companies but it's bad when it goes to low-income Americans. If you want healthcare or affordable college, you're a moocher. If you're a CEO or other exec, bailouts and government assistance are just fine. This is part of the fraud that is supply-side economics.

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Originally Posted by ChicagoX

The largest corporations and wealthiest Americans get bailouts and government assistance in the form of massive tax breaks all the time. Why is it ok for them but not for lower and middle class Americans? It seems like welfare is ok if it goes to Fortune 500 companies but it's bad when it goes to low-income Americans. If you want healthcare or affordable college, you're a moocher. If you're a CEO or other exec, bailouts and government assistance are just fine. This is part of the fraud that is supply-side economics.

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Wow. Who actually funds the vast majority of tax revenue in the United States?

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Originally Posted by bleedXblue

Let me remind everyone what a great country we live in: IMHO there is one simple underlying mechanism that enables just about every American to get out of life and this country what they want to. It's the desire and work ethic to want to get ahead. And this is all about doing this ON YOUR OWN. If you have an expectation or have been brought up in an environment that this is someone else's responsibility, you are going to be for a long, tough haul in life. Sure, there are those that have been given an a head start and an advantage over others, but nothing is more important than work ethic and the desire for more. Our system of government and democracy/capitalism in general is not sustainable (long term) without individuals contributing more than they receive in return. Obama, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Trump....doesn't matter who the President is or what party has the house majority. It doesn't really matter who gets appointed to the Supreme Court. If and when the average American expects their government to bail them out and provide assistance for whatever it is they they are in need of, we are screwed.

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Well done.

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Originally Posted by bleedXblue

Let me remind everyone what a great country we live in: IMHO there is one simple underlying mechanism that enables just about every American to get out of life and this country what they want to. It's the desire and work ethic to want to get ahead. And this is all about doing this ON YOUR OWN. If you have an expectation or have been brought up in an environment that this is someone else's responsibility, you are going to be for a long, tough haul in life. Sure, there are those that have been given an a head start and an advantage over others, but nothing is more important than work ethic and the desire for more. Our system of government and democracy/capitalism in general is not sustainable (long term) without individuals contributing more than they receive in return. Obama, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Trump....doesn't matter who the President is or what party has the house majority. It doesn't really matter who gets appointed to the Supreme Court. If and when the average American expects their government to bail them out and provide assistance for whatever it is they they are in need of, we are screwed.

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This argument is tired and old. When did I ever ask for handouts? This is straight out of the supply-side narrative to change the argument to handouts instead of what it should be which is fair compensation and the ability of all to build wealth.

If you don't see the current system as one that is attempting to create a generation of people with large amounts of debt, working diligently to attempt to pay down that debt, and accepting of the current system because it's all they have, then I just can't help you.

I graduated in '98 when a car loan was 3 years, 4 years to lower the payment, and 5 years was the absolute max. One has to go to a Credit Union now for anything under 5 years for a new car and dealers are going up to 7 years. Home loans are already up to 40 years if you want one and I bet my kids will be able to get a 50 year loan. Wages have not met costs and your ability to obtain long term debt and the ever increasing term debt speaks novels for those willing to see.

Edit: I guess you hated TARP, you hated the farm bailouts people just got, you must really hate food stamps, and Medicare, Social Security, etc. Government should just be overpaying for military stuff and bootstraps to hand out to the public.

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Originally Posted by xudash

Wow. Who actually funds the vast majority of tax revenue in the United States?

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The same people and companies who get, by far, the most massive tax breaks that they really don't need and get bailed out by the federal government after crashing the economy. Corporate profits were at record highs before these tax breaks went into effect. It's one thing to lower taxes during a recession, but you won't find a reputable economist who would suggest that doing it in times of prosperity is a good idea. Lowering to corporate tax rate to 21% was way too much. They should have dropped it to the 28-30% range. For people like us who benefit from the stock market, it's great, but the majority of Americans do not own stock. This was nothing more than the GOP paying off their donors.

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Originally Posted by ChicagoX

The same people and companies who get, by far, the most massive tax breaks that they really don't need and get bailed out by the federal government after crashing the economy. Corporate profits were at record highs before these tax breaks went into effect. It's one thing to lower taxes during a recession, but you won't find a reputable economist who would suggest that doing it in times of prosperity is a good idea. Lowering to corporate tax rate to 21% was way too much. They should have dropped it to the 28-30% range. For people like us who benefit from the stock market, it's great, but the majority of Americans do not own stock. This was nothing more than the GOP paying off their donors.

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Nice try.

Reputable according to you only?

Do you believe the spending side of the equation is a problem?

BTW, I agree with you totally about more equitable compensation.

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Originally Posted by ChicagoX

The same people and companies who get, by far, the most massive tax breaks that they really don't need and get bailed out by the federal government after crashing the economy. Corporate profits were at record highs before these tax breaks went into effect. It's one thing to lower taxes during a recession, but you won't find a reputable economist who would suggest that doing it in times of prosperity is a good idea. Lowering to corporate tax rate to 21% was way too much. They should have dropped it to the 28-30% range. For people like us who benefit from the stock market, it's great, but the majority of Americans do not own stock. This was nothing more than the GOP paying off their donors.

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100% correct, most companies are not buying treasury stock at record numbers. Those fake bonuses were just garbage. AT&T's was negotiated by a union prior to the tax cut announcement. They are now laying people off in call centers nationwide and moving their jobs overseas. Carrier, they just delayed the inevitable.

I said it already, the rich aren't propping up this economy. The vast mass of people that make up what can be still considered a middle class are. They are eking by, saving a little, and calling it prosperous. The country's total outstanding revolving debt has been increasing each year and has not stopped. Something will give, I don't see another crash but things will certainly decline to recession territory. I could see a crash happen with a housing correction. Families have to be nearly on the bring just to buy a home today.

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Originally Posted by xudash

Do you believe the spending side of the equation is a problem?

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The GOP slashing taxes and increasing spending will lead to our next recession. The mountains of debt piling up and the increase in inflation caused by the tax cuts will be responsible for it. The idea that Republicans are the party of fiscal conservatism is a farce and has been for nearly four decades. Cutting taxes and increasing spending isn't fiscally responsible. Tax cuts never pay for themselves no matter how many times Republicans say that they will.

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Originally Posted by xudash

Nice try.

Reputable according to you only?

Do you believe the spending side of the equation is a problem?

BTW, I agree with you totally about more equitable compensation.

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Half true, half false.

Economists are pretty split about tax cuts boosting the economy. They are, however, not split on the types of cuts that would help the economy. Cuts for the poor and middle class will most likely boost short term GDP. Permanent cuts are a much weaker affect. Cuts to the rich, don't help much at all. They don't spend money they get.