Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by Xville

Not against the idea of it, just like how a lot of things sound great on paper but once action takes place, it isn't what you thought.

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Agreed, but if you continue the current trends in the healthcare costs and extrapolate them out 10-20 years you get some very scary numbers in terms of cost of insurance and cost of care. The current system is not sustainable either.

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Originally Posted by boozehound

Agreed, but if you continue the current trends in the healthcare costs and extrapolate them out 10-20 years you get some very scary numbers in terms of cost of insurance and cost of care. The current system is not sustainable either.

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Agreed...I know that something needs to be done, I just don't know what, and I'm not convinced Single payer is the way to go in this country nor that it would cost less.

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Originally Posted by paulxu

You need to study how universal health care works in some of the European countries. The employers very often do pay into the system on behalf of their employees. In other areas, the amount your employer pays in the US for health is in the employee's wage, so it is paid in taxes.

That's why "per capita" is so important to understand. Their health systems deliver good car to ALL their citizens, and about 1/2 the total cost of ours. For a variety of reasons, not the least of which is covering everyone provides primary care to reduce emergency room costs for uninsured who wait late for diagnosis and treatment.

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So, that sucks for small business owners...how is that better? Again, just because other countries who have single payer costs 1/2 of what ours does, does not mean that if we went to single payer it would cost 1/2. There are many other factors involved such as the fact that we are one of the most unhealthy developed countries on the planet.

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Originally Posted by Xville

Agreed...I know that something needs to be done, I just don't know what, and I'm not convinced Single payer is the way to go in this country nor that it would cost less.

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This in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, both in other countries and in ours as evidenced by Medicare.

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Originally Posted by boozehound

Somebody is still paying it, it's not free money. Imagine the burden that the small business owner bears in terms of healthcare costs? Do you know any small business owners that provide insurance for their employees? It's very difficult to do, and generally you are one major medical event for one of your employees away from not being able to provide insurance. It is a significant built-in disadvantage for small business in terms of both profit and the labor market.

I'm not sure that we ever will 'see' even though the majority of Americans at this point support some form of single payer. The insurance industry is massive and spends a tremendous amount of money lobbying to ensure that it doesn't happen.



Yes. Somebody is paying. If you add the employer subsidy in to the mix I (and my employer on my behalf) am paying closer to $1400 per month, or $16,800 per year. That is a LOT of money to the average American family making ~$56K per year.

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I know one. We cover 100% of our fulltime employee that aren't part of ownership.

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Originally Posted by Xville

So, that sucks for small business owners...how is that better? Again, just because other countries who have single payer costs 1/2 of what ours does, does not mean that if we went to single payer it would cost 1/2. There are many other factors involved such as the fact that we are one of the most unhealthy developed countries on the planet.

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How does that suck for small business owners? I would think it would be better, as they would pay much less that it would currently cost. I guess it would force small businesses that don't provide healthcare to pay into the care, but they should anyways, and if structured as a payroll tax low-wage small businesses would pay in at a rate commensurate with their wages.

Our current system is expensive, and relies heavily on luck. Most American families would be financial devastated by someone having cancer, for example, even if they have decent insurance.

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Originally Posted by 94GRAD

I know one. We cover 100% of our fulltime employee that aren't part of ownership.

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That is extremely commendable, particularly in the service industry.

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Originally Posted by boozehound

Somebody is still paying it, it's not free money. Imagine the burden that the small business owner bears in terms of healthcare costs? Do you know any small business owners that provide insurance for their employees?

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My firm.

An actual letter letter from an Oregon resident sent to his Senator:


Dear Senator Wyden,

As a native Oregonian and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue Service, I am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department of Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming an illegal alien , and they referred me to you.

My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to illegal alien stems from the bill which was recently passed by the Senate and for which you voted. If my understanding of this bill is accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for five years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine and income taxes for only three of the last five years.

I know a good deal when I see one , and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone else figures it out. Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay taxes every year ; so I'm excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of taxes in return for paying a $2,000 fine.

Is there any way that I can apply to be illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and my family , because we paid heavy taxes in 2014 and 2015.
Additionally, as an illegal alien , I could begin using the local emergency room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying premiums for medical insurance, my accountant figures that I could save almost $10,000 a year.

Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter would receive preferential treatment relative to her law school applications, as well as 'in-state' tuition rates for many colleges throughout the United States for my son.

Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the burden of renewing my driver's license and making those burdensome car insurance premiums. This is very important to me, given that I still have college age children driving my car.

If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become illegal (retroactively if possible) as well as copies of the necessary forms, I would be most appreciative. Thank you for your assistance.

Your Loyal Constituent,
(hoping to reach 'illegal alien' status , rather than be just a bonafide citizen of the USA)

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Originally Posted by xudash

An actual letter letter from an Oregon resident sent to his Senator:


Dear Senator Wyden,

As a native Oregonian and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue Service, I am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department of Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming an illegal alien , and they referred me to you.

My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to illegal alien stems from the bill which was recently passed by the Senate and for which you voted. If my understanding of this bill is accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for five years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine and income taxes for only three of the last five years.

I know a good deal when I see one , and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone else figures it out. Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay taxes every year ; so I'm excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of taxes in return for paying a $2,000 fine.

Is there any way that I can apply to be illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and my family , because we paid heavy taxes in 2014 and 2015.
Additionally, as an illegal alien , I could begin using the local emergency room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying premiums for medical insurance, my accountant figures that I could save almost $10,000 a year.

Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter would receive preferential treatment relative to her law school applications, as well as 'in-state' tuition rates for many colleges throughout the United States for my son.

Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the burden of renewing my driver's license and making those burdensome car insurance premiums. This is very important to me, given that I still have college age children driving my car.

If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become illegal (retroactively if possible) as well as copies of the necessary forms, I would be most appreciative. Thank you for your assistance.

Your Loyal Constituent,
(hoping to reach 'illegal alien' status , rather than be just a bonafide citizen of the USA)

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Ah, the summer off season. Does this post have anything to do with the current conversation on the cost of healthcare in the US, and whether a single payer system could do a more efficient job delivering such care to the general population?