Covid-19

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Originally Posted by Masterofreality

See the NPR article below.

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/07/85171...id-19-patients

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Trump got the China travel ban right but he and his administration have failed just as miserably in many other areas just like the democrats. In regard to PPE, Kushner gave contracts to a republican lobbyist who started a company in February to take advantage of the shortage of PPE. The contracts were vastly inflated, the lobbyist did not have credible contacts/ manufacturers that could meet the dates he promised and the contracts were ultimately pulled. My company and many others stepped in as a result. The swamp is still full. Trump is no different than any other politician, he does what he thinks will get him re-elected and plays solely to his base.
Our system is broken, we need some adults who are interested in and capable of solving problems.

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Originally Posted by murray87

The anit-vaxxers are a small fringe of ill-informed people (IMO). A COVID vaccine would be wonderful but what are the chances of it happening when you see there is no true vaccine for the seasonal flu, the common cold or HIV.

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A COVID vaccine will likely be effective because it apparently mutates at a much slower rate than influenza and HIV. There are over 200 viruses known to cause the common cold so a vaccine for that (not to mention complications from a cold are rarely fatal) would not be comparable. At worst, a vaccine would convert this to an upper respiratory infection and significantly slow spreading (like a cold). At best, eradication. FWIW I’ve heard there’s a chance we have a booster vaccine every 6-12 months until this is gone.

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

I truly think you have reading comprehension issues. I don’t care about Cuomo, simply pointing out your flawed logic for hating on him.

Comparing average hospital admittance per month from an average hospital to the admittance in a COVID hospital is beyond apples to oranges. The average stay for COVID patients is DOUBLE that of non COVID patients. This is not a partisan stat, it’s not Medical Dogma, it’s factual. COVID patients spend more time in the hospital than non-COVID patients as a general statement. Since you like to find exceptions to facts, of course there are patients that spend months in the hospital. But ON AVERAGE, the length of stay for a COVID patient is about 11 days. Non-COVID patients are around 4-5 days.

1100 COVID patients in 30 days for a pop-up hospital is damn impressive, and you can continue to think that is not impressive if it makes you feel mighty.

EDIT: please point out where I lied, I would love to see that.

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Talk about "reading comprehension issues". Stop deferring Lloyd. 6,000 unneeded Nursing Home Deaths is reason enough to hate on him after his "3A" order to send infected patients back in to them. If that is flawed logic, then I'm not sure what logic is.
You made this discussion more political and this latest kerfluffle began when you felt the need to break into an exchange between me and X-Man on your post 2422 where you said my statement was false and had to call the numbers in the Republican states I showed as a "very bad trend". I showed you real factual numbers in post 2430 that showed that what I stated was correct and showed updated TODAY numbers. Then in 2431, you defend Cuomo (so much for not "caring about Cuomo) and New York by excusing their lousy record because "of course" and then undermining Ohio's results by the "trending poorly" statement. Meanwhile, you try to keep the veil up of objectivity in post 2437 about how "equally critical" you are. Total BS based upon your own writings. I call those lies.
Every report from any source has stated clearly that Javitts and the Comfort ship were "underutilized". Javitts had 1100 patients TOTAL in over 30 days with a bed capacity of 1900. If the average stay was 11 days it sure would seem that it would have been more full at times- especially when other New York hospitals were breathlessly shown to be panicked and overrun. You have stated numerous times that in your view the Federal Government f-ed up their response and I'm showing you that they did not-evidence underutilized beds in the biggest hotspot in the US. BTW, you never addressed or denied my statistics in my post 2430 so I can only assume your "false" statement was a false accusation and a lie as well.

Stop with your veiled (not so anymore) political leanings, get off your high horse and just come out with who you really support so we can all take your alleged "medical expertise" through the filter that we need to put it through. I'm clear in my leanings. New York State f-ed up while Cuomo gets a puff-piece chance to crow on Jimmy Fallon last night. What a disgusting and disingenuous exhibition. Meanwhile Ohio is doing just fine on latest trends below the 7 day average on hospitalizations, ICU's and deaths, despite your dire criticisms.

MOR- I don’t reply to every stat you post because when I do reply with hard data you discard it. It’s pointless to go back and forth because you and I will never see eye to eye on this. You take any counterpoint as a threat to your intelligence. You side with Trump 100% of the time and when you repeat a lie he has stated it makes you a liar. History will not be kind to a lot of his words and actions. Your loyalty and dedication to the party is quite pathetic, and I fail to see any original thought. Just regurgitated word vomit from fake news. It’s like you incessantly poke at a topic with bs until the other person stops replying to your insanity and then claim victory in argument. I have read your posts for almost what, 20 years now on various platforms and I used to find you entertaining. Now, perhaps senile.

Regarding Ohio, where did I say it was dire? I said “trending poorly” which we are. We are at the highest 7-day hospitalization rate since April 15. Does that mean “dire” situation? No, but if that trend continues you can forget about schools going back, which would be a real shame. You can pick one day’s hospitalizations and say we are fine but look at the trend. It’s almost as silly as you reporting snow in Cleveland in May to disprove global warming.

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

A COVID vaccine will likely be effective because it apparently mutates at a much slower rate than influenza and HIV. There are over 200 viruses known to cause the common cold so a vaccine for that (not to mention complications from a cold are rarely fatal) would not be comparable. At worst, a vaccine would convert this to an upper respiratory infection and significantly slow spreading (like a cold). At best, eradication. FWIW I’ve heard there’s a chance we have a booster vaccine every 6-12 months until this is gone.

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I hope you’re right, but I’ve read 4 different articles now about how a safe and effective vaccine is unlikely. It has become clear that only the most severe cases trigger the body to produce the one antibody that persists (IgG). That means any vaccine would need to trigger IgG response, which is harder and more risky (as I understand).

I’m not trying to be a Debbie downer, but if we won’t have a safe and effective vaccine, the sooner we can acknowledge this, the better.

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

I hope you’re right, but I’ve read 4 different articles now about how a safe and effective vaccine is unlikely. It has become clear that only the most severe cases trigger the body to produce the one antibody that persists (IgG). That means any vaccine would need to trigger IgG response, which is harder and more risky (as I understand).

I’m not trying to be a Debbie downer, but if we won’t have a safe and effective vaccine, the sooner we can acknowledge this, the better.

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That is a very interesting problem, if true, because it changes how we must approach solving this problem.

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Originally Posted by muskiefan82

That is a very interesting problem, if true, because it changes how we must approach solving this problem.

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If there's never going to be a safe and effective vaccine...I'm not sure what you do. Basically ignore it and let it run its course? That's obviously a shitty option, but I'm not sure every other option wouldn't be worse.

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

I hope you’re right, but I’ve read 4 different articles now about how a safe and effective vaccine is unlikely. It has become clear that only the most severe cases trigger the body to produce the one antibody that persists (IgG). That means any vaccine would need to trigger IgG response, which is harder and more risky (as I understand).

I’m not trying to be a Debbie downer, but if we won’t have a safe and effective vaccine, the sooner we can acknowledge this, the better.

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I think that’s why yesterdays news was so big, that 100% of the individuals in the phase 1 trial had IgG response to the vaccine. Here’s the data

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

MOR- I don’t reply to every stat you post because when I do reply with hard data you discard it.

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Except you never did. Yup, pointless, when YOU have no point that you can make. And thanks for the "senile" reference, when you can't even respond without, now name calling and reckless finger pointing. That, for sure is the mark of someone who is left of center. Don't dispute with facts, just name call, correct?
Point out please, where I've allegedly "repeated Trump's lies". History will be what it is. And I didn't vote for Trump, but the Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson, the Governor of New Mexico. Uh, I also voted for Obama in 2008 and there is a Readers Digest article about me and others like me to prove it. See, I'm not some brainwashed lemming follower of some failed philosophy, but open to good thoughts where ever they come from. But you just keep on being you with your political tunnel vision fashioned, I'm sure by the Cuyahoga Socialist State. I'm sure you voted for piker Armond Budish too, rather than an accomplished guy, Jack Schrom, who should have gotten the job. Pull that party line!!

You have now checked all of the lib boxes. We now know where you come from so we can now be wary of all of your ponderous proclamations
Congratulations on your "wokeness" Lloyd. Hope the system that we have all grown up with isn't destroyed through it.

“Point out please, where I've allegedly "repeated Trump's lies". Ok the most recent example (there are plenty in the other politics thread)- This article was written 3 weeks ago, referencing Trumps remarks that the Javitts and Comfort were “barely used” and you stated almost word for word the exact same thing. When I came back with data that contradicts that (1100 patients is beyond barely) you then used the convention centers capacity, which realistically was closer to 3000 and not 1900, to state it was barely used because they COULD have squeezed more than 1100 people in the 4 weeks they treated COVID patients. Trump lied to attack Cuomo. You reiterated that lie. Because “barely” is a subjective term that generates opinion instead of something objective, you will continue to claim 1100 patients in 4 weeks meets that criteria.

Also I didn’t directly call you a name, just suggested possible senility. You are the real life “man yells at cloud” gif.

Congrats on voting for Obama. You are truly bipartisan!