Politics Thread

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11-09-2023, 01:12 PM
STL_XUfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xville

I don’t believe that to be true and you have said that several times now. The debate was about “ensoulment” and when that actually occurred. Back in the day, like Thomas Aquinass days, there was a “belief” that maybe ensoulment occurred at 40-80 days. 1.) that’s long before “viability” and 2.) there was no real “official” position until the 1800s.

With that said, I wrestle with the whole pro-life/pro-choice thing. 1.) I’m absolutely for the death penalty. 2.) don’t think government should necessarily be making these decisions but 3.) but I think in most cases, people just want to get rid of a “mistake” and they do that by murdering a baby.

A major issue is that these bans have unintended consequences on the treatment options for women suffering a miscarriage. New York Times had an article looking at what has been happening in Texas since their ban went into place: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/17/h...treatment.html

States that have enacted strong abortion restrictions have a 62% higher maternal mortality rate: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...ricting-states
11-09-2023, 01:15 PM
MADXSTER

I didn't even know this was a thing. Betting on US politics. Interesting.

I thought this was the best quote... "When you answer a poll, you tell people what you wish is going to happen," he tells AFP -- unlike a market, which captures "what you think is going to happen."

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/do...012631171.html
11-09-2023, 01:21 PM
paulxu

I think in the old days, abortion was not a sin up to "quickening" or the beginning of movement. (16 to 20 weeks)
You are correct about viability. That would be later, around 25 weeks.
11-09-2023, 02:22 PM
Smails

Quote:

Originally Posted by STL_XUfan

Isn't that exactly what just passed in Ohio. I think you would find broad support for that across the US.

The bill cuts deeper than that. There's no definition of viability. It allows the treating doctor to determine viability, regardless of term. That's what I had the biggest issue with.
11-09-2023, 02:26 PM
Masterofreality

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smails

The bill cuts deeper than that. There's no definition of viability. It allows the treating doctor to determine viability, regardless of term. That's what I had the biggest issue with.

Correct. A woman could have an abortion up to the crowning of the head in Ohio through this trash amendment.
And parental approval is no longer required for minors to get an abortion.
I guess us parents are just out of the picture now since “it takes a village”. (Eye Roll)
11-09-2023, 02:28 PM
Masterofreality

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulxu

Curiously enough, that was the position of the Catholic Church for most of 2,000 years.
You think all those popes and Catholics who supported that position had "no regard for human life?"

False. Stop Gaslighting with twisted statements- as all progressives do.
11-09-2023, 02:36 PM
STL_XUfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smails

The bill cuts deeper than that. There's no definition of viability. It allows the treating doctor to determine viability, regardless of term. That's what I had the biggest issue with.

Isn't that were medical standards would come into play? If you give some definition of viability based on what the legislature would draw up, it would impact the treatment of women going through a miscarriage or other medical issue that comes up. Those are typically not women seeking an abortion, but instead something goes wrong with a wanted pregnancy.

I just do not believe any doctor is risking his medical license by making up a bullshit definition of viability that does not comport with medical standards.
11-09-2023, 02:40 PM
paulxu

If I understand the amendment, the state can control the issue after "viability" as long as there are exceptions for health of the mother.
So, it's hard to imagine (except in rare emergencies endangering the mother) an abortion taking place after the head crowns.

I surprised people are surprised at the result. Under the old Ohio law there were no exceptions for rape or incest.
What did people think would happen?
11-09-2023, 02:59 PM
Masterofreality

Joe Mancin not running for reelection.
I hope that you can read his excellent article/reason that he wrote in the best newspaper in the Country. The Wall Street Journal:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-i-w..._copyURL_share
11-09-2023, 03:01 PM
Masterofreality

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulxu

If I understand the amendment, the state can control the issue after "viability" as long as there are exceptions for health of the mother.
So, it's hard to imagine (except in rare emergencies endangering the mother) an abortion taking place after the head crowns.

I surprised people are surprised at the result. Under the old Ohio law there were no exceptions for rape or incest.
What did people think would happen?

A doctor can determine the issue. Many ways to get there. Not hard to imagine at all.
The existing law was easily remedied. Now it’s a clusterf$&k