That doesn’t answer my question.Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
Do you enjoy this type of banter? Is this fun for you?
Printable View
That doesn’t answer my question.Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
Do you enjoy this type of banter? Is this fun for you?
I totally understand what you're insinuating. Unfortunately that data doesn't exist in the US, therefore neither of us can prove our points, right? Why doesn't the CDC break down data between unvaxxed and vaxxed populations? What are they hiding? So I know you're going to tell me "of course the vast majority of people getting Covid are vaxxed, it's because the vast majority of people are vaxxed". But c'mon, you have to admit that wasn't supposed to happen, right? I can show you a video of newspaper headlines and Fauci going on TV explaining ad nauseam that the vax would prevent people from getting Covid. That's what we were sold way back in late 2020/early 2021.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final4
So by not answering my question, I am left to assume you do enjoy bitching and chirping at anonymous people on a message board that was developed for Xavier fans to discuss Xavier basketball. I also assume you would enjoy dry humping a door knob until the hinges fell off.Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
We all enjoy different things, and while this is an odd way to have fun, it isn’t hurting me or affecting my life whatsoever. Carry on Lou. Hope you change the minds of all that cross your path.
Kind of strange that you're partaking in the very thing that you're denouncing...Quote:
Originally Posted by nuts4xu
Did you notice the title of this thread?
I wonder why you didn't focus on any of the other people who post here, especially the two that offer nothing to this conversation?
Finally, when you start a sentence with "what", it usually implies a question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuts4xu
I’m not denouncing anything. I am genuinely curious if you enjoy the debate and the back and forth.
I engaged With you because you are active on the board right now.
I am asking you, Paul, xu82, noteggs, or anyone else on this thread. Is it all in good fun, or do you believe you have to win the argument?
In a nutshell, the policies that have been taken to supposedly mitigate the virus by Feds, states and local governments have not only failed, but they have proven to be extremely harmful to our country in a variety of ways. The reality of the situation does not fit the official narrative. I want to expose this so we can stop the madness.Quote:
Originally Posted by nuts4xu
Nuts...for my part, I don't expect to win any of the arguments. Any hope of that was dashed watching the last four years and the continuing aftermath.Quote:
Originally Posted by nuts4xu
I do like to put forth factual support for my positions, but realize that may not ever be enough.
Looking forward to basketball season.
ps. watching some of the reactions can be some good fun.
I don’t expect to change anyone’s opinion, other than my own as time goes on, the situation evolves and circumstances change. We are not where we were when this began, so I’m not in the exact same place either.Quote:
Originally Posted by nuts4xu
I don’t think anyone can “win” this, though some are certain they are the fountain of truth. That annoys me, so I jump in from time to time, mostly to amuse myself. This is a medical thing, not a political thing, despite what the media or some posters here want you to think. The labeling and name calling (like being called a “lib” is going to distress me) is absolutely childish. I honestly believe that both extremes are delusional.
My father was WAY right, my sister is pretty far left. They argued all the time and I thought a little less of them as a result. I think the vast majority of the population is somewhere between my father and my sister, they just aren’t as loud.
Well since I was mentioned, thought I’d take a stab.Quote:
Originally Posted by nuts4xu
I’m sure we all have our reasons. When I first started posting in this thread, just trying share my thoughts and knowledge about medicine. Now, just enjoy reading and posting while trying to understand how people think in general. Obviously we all share a passion for Xavier basketball (some the university itself), so I respect their opinions in general more so than on other social media sites. Actually, this is the only site I share my beliefs and opinions.
If my posts have not been respectful, then I apologize to those I’ve offended. I can honestly say I would be happy to go out and have a bourbon with Paul. Yes we have vast differences in politics, but I think he is a good man. That’s what makes this site unique IMO.
Paul is GREAT to have a bourbon with, being a good man is debatable(he's a great man)Quote:
Originally Posted by noteggs
Thanks for posting this question NUTS,Quote:
Originally Posted by nuts4xu
Xavier BBall is one of my few remaining passions and this board provides up to the minute info on our beloved Muskies. I never was interested, nor did I post, anything on these "politic" threads until Biden and Co. began to immediately implement the Obama "Fundamentally Change America" agenda.
Although it hard to stay in my lane, My sole reason to interact on these threads is to try and understand HOW anyone can support the range of destructive policies that are intentionally designed, IMO, to diminish traditional American values.
I am simply in constant pursuit of hearing ANY reasonable explanation in support of these increasingly far left policies and the politicians that are implementing them. That goes for here, or anywhere I am in contact with Biden/Dem voters.
Unfortunately, straight out of the liberal playbook, there is very little back bone to present reasons of support from our leftist friends, which is exactly what am eager to get. I just am looking to understand how someone can be complicit in this destroy America crap, through their vote.
I could care less about Fox news and conservative media. I spend all my time focused on the MSM, aka the propaganda wing of the Democratic party. I am absolutely fascinated by the power they yield and their ability to foment this current craziness so quickly!
Clearly you don't. But keep thinking about it and maybe you'll eventually get to that aha moment and recognize the absurdity in that statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c91XUyg9iWM
I like the point-counter point and calling out the BS
I think your link is brokenQuote:
Originally Posted by MADXSTER
Glad to know! If we do have that bourbon, you can probably guess who be tip or the gipper! Ha!Quote:
Originally Posted by 94GRAD
94 is being generous in his comments because I'm generous in my tips. So, yes, ....I'll be Tip.
And I'll be happy to buy you a round or two.
Wow, seriously? You are discussing droplet transmission. That is so June 2020... and exactly what I should have expected.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
Aerosols (airborne particles) are far and away the primary mechanism for COVID transmission, and clearly the only mechanism when comparing case rates of masked vs. unmasked populations. Again, you should seek to learn the truth from sources other than TV news. Even Fauci himself acknowledged airborne transmission in Feb 2020 FOIA emails. Please do some research, read some viewpoints outside the mainstream, and look at actual coid data.
I see open-mindedness and intellectual curiosity is not your strong suit. That new X curriculum just isn't what is was in the early '90's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final4
Here's your challenge: First tell me the only geography that still provides some breakdown of cases/hospitalizations/deaths by vaccination status. Hint: the last place (I'm aware of) still providing some raw data on this is an island nation with a horse-toothed, authoritarian leader.
Now go look at their data and tell me about statistical analysis.
This is a perfect example of why fact-based discussions are often difficult here. You note that "Aerosols (airborne particles) are far and away the primary mechanism for COVID transmission,"Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
Then you say seek truth from sources other than TV.
So...obviously you did not click through to the report I provided, where microbiologists did a study on the effectiveness of masks in the covid spread from aerosols.
How can we have fact based discussions when all you do is sling out criticisms without bothering to read what someone provides?
Quote:
Here, we developed an airborne transmission simulator of infectious SARS-CoV-2-containing droplets/aerosols produced by human respiration and coughs and assessed the transmissibility of the infectious droplets/aerosols and the ability of various types of face masks to block the transmission
So you took raw data from one area and made a blanket statement regarding infections in vaccinated vs non-vaccinated people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
Oh yea, viruses definitely behave differently in different countries. I'm sure there's a preponderance of scientific studies that show that...
Just a suggestion… follow final 4’s advice and do some research on what statistical analysis actually is. It’s very clear you don’t understand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
Also, it’s widely known that Covid has acted very differently in different countries depending upon a number of factors, so I hope you were being serious and not sarcastic.
Oh good God, the stupidity that prevails on this board...
No shit Sherlocks, yes the virus does behave differently in different countries according to a number of factors that have been pointed out on numerous occasions, but were dismissed has heresy by the exact same people. Incredible....
However, please show me how the virus behaves differently between regions in vaxxed vs unvaxxed - prevalence and outcomes.
Again, please start to understand raw data vs statistical analysis and then maybe you will begin to realize how absurd your last sentence is.Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
Gee, Ville, why don't you give a go at it and show us all how we should understand the data. Or are you too scared? We'll be waiting...
It’s not my job to be your google machine. You can educate yourself or be ignorant. Your choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
Chickenshit... What's wrong ville, you don't want to go out on a limb and expose yourself to criticism? Oh, you're happy to dish it out though, right? This is why everyone on this board knows you're a complete clown. No one takes you seriously.... you argue for the sake of argument. You flip-flop more than Fauci in this thread alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
“Everyone” “no one” —-spoken like a true extremist. Sorry you get so angry when you are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
I’ll leave you back to your exposing the evils of the government and media to the 5 people that read this thread now. Truly God’s work you are doing here lol
Chickenshit...Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
Do you even know what "raw data" is? Do you realize how stupid you look with this question?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
Here is what you said, “As to the vax, yes, it is faulty. Not only does it not stop transmission, but the vaxxed/boosted are getting COVID now at greater rates than the unvaccinated, and it’s not even close”.
So 100 vaccinated people are exposed to the virus and 10 of them subsequently test positive for COVID. The conclusion you (and your butt buddy Lou) draw from that data is that the vaccine is useless and provides no prophylactic benefit.
And if 100 unvaccinated people are exposed to the virus and 80 of them subsequently test positive for COVID do you not arrive at a different conclusion? And please spare me the BS of the 100 people in my first example are young and healthy and the 100 in the second are old and fat. That’s not relevant to this argument. The point is the only way you can arrive at the conclusion you are professing above is by pulling it out of your ass………certainly not through any kind of statistical modeling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Final4
Dude - didn't I address this - exactly - but you completely blew it off? And this the analysis you've been teasing us for 2 days now?
So England used to report covid data by vax status, but stopped right after this report (published earlier this year). The vast majority of cases, hospitalizations and deaths were among those with at least 3 doses. Vaxxed were also more likely to die (you can go back before this report and see similar data).Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
My points are that (1) these numbers should not be happening if the vax worked as originally advertised and (2) most people think that only unvaxxed people are getting Covid.
unvax / 3 doses / % vax
Cases: / 167402 / 544745 / 76.49%
Hosp : / 1504 / 4505 / 74.97%
Deaths / 286 / 2082 / 87.92%
% hosp / 0.90% / 0.83%
% deaths /19.02% / 46.22%
https://assets.publishing.service.go..._-_week_10.pdf
Well, I already beat up on you enough for citing droplet transmission, I thought I'd spare you the embarrassment of calling out the "study" you cited. Did you read it? It's a simulation of two dummies puffing air at each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
So tell me, which is a better way to measure of mask effectiveness:
A) A simulation study of dummies puffing air.
B) Two comprehensive research studies with thousands of human subjects, and 2+ years of real-world data?
Hopefully you answered B), otherwise there is no point. Please let me know.
I don't know what you are looking at or thinking I looked at. What I can tell you is that I was looking at case/death rates by vax status. Until this spring, there were several geographies that reported covid data by vaccination status: UK, Israel, Australia (New South Wales specifically) and NZ. Moreover, they also provided nice graphs of the rates per 100K population of that vax status. All through the Spring (Omicron wave), each week the data looked less and less favorable to the vax narrative. Not coincidentally, one by one, each geography, except for NZ, stopped even reporting the data.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final4
What I can tell you is that my "butt-buddy" (strange term for someone else who actually looks at data vs. swallowing the mainstream narrative hook, line and sinker) posted a link to the UK reports from this spring. I also first mentioned this in this thread about 6 months ago when the trend became apparent. Data in ALL (xville) of these geographies show that the vaxxed/boosted are getting infected at the highest rates. While the unvaxxed are still getting hospitalized and dying at the greatest rate, the gap has closed substantially, to where it's not a discernable difference.
Could it be that the vax, designed for the native strain, is ineffective against current variants? Could it be that the vax is even suppressing the immune system's ability to respond to current variants? Both are certainly not without precedent.
Note I'm not an anti-vaxxer, in fact you can go back in this thread to spring/summer '21 and see that I supported it and got vaxxed. However, things have changed. Radically. Please keep an open mind.
I'll take American Society of Microbiologists with aerosol study for $200, Alex.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
Alex, I mean Lou, I’ll preface this by saying I only skimmed the article you linked. Having said that, I couldn’t find the values you extracted……..maybe they were buried in multiple slides on multiple pages and I missed them or maybe you pulled them out of your ass. I did however find the following on pages 38 and 39:
Results
“The rate of a positive COVID-19 test varies by age and vaccination status. This is likely to be due to a variety of reasons, including differences in the population of vaccinated and unvaccinated people as well as differences in testing patterns. The rate of hospitalisation within 28 days of a positive COVID-19 test increases with age, and is substantially greater in unvaccinated individuals compared to vaccinated individuals. The rate of death within 28 days or within 60 days of a positive COVID-19 test increases with age, and again is substantially greater in unvaccinated individuals compared to fully vaccinated individuals.”
Interpretation of Data
“This data should be considered in the context of the vaccination status of the population groups shown in the rest of this report. In the context of very high vaccine coverage in the population, even with a highly effective vaccine, it is expected that a large proportion of cases, hospitalisations and deaths would occur in vaccinated individuals, simply because a larger proportion of the population are vaccinated than unvaccinated and no vaccine is 100% effective. This is especially true because vaccination has been prioritised in individuals who are more susceptible or more at risk of severe disease. Individuals in risk groups may also be more at risk of hospitalisation or death due to non-COVID-19 causes, and thus may be hospitalised or die with COVID-19 rather than from COVID-19. The vaccination status of cases, inpatients and deaths should not be used to assess vaccine effectiveness because of differences in risk, behaviour and testing in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations. The case rates in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations are crude rates that do not take into account underlying statistical biases in the data.”
I’ll once again go back to the statement by MID regarding infection rates between vax and unvax populations and my contention that using that rate as your metric to determine jab efficacy is flawed logic. That’s my only point.
You've perfectly demonstrated why smug libs like you and 82 never learn anything...Quote:
Originally Posted by Final4
It's almost like this statement should be followed with....DUH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final4
Pot meet kettle. This is the difference between raw data and statistical analysis, something you still are unwilling to grasp. You and your buddy mid believe that by looking at some raw data in one specific area of one country that coincides with your beliefs, means you have found some holy grail and can point fingers at the entire health community and msm and say “see I’m right and you’re wrong,” and pat yourselves on the back. It’s mind bogglingly ignorant.Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou