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How many mistakes does one get before it becomes a behavioral pattern? Also, Mengele is not that different than Gosnell either. People just lose it whenever someone is compared to a Nazi. Unless that person happens to be a Republican (I'm not). Then it's ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
Also, a little research shows that like many of the Fauci myths, the whole orphans / AIDS thing is taken wildly out of context by right wing fringe media. Also the BBC has since admitted that they didn’t appropriately fact check their ‘documentary’.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
There are some deeply disturbed and gullible folks out there who are determined to craft an alternate reality for themselves in which Fauci is some sort of evil mastermind.
Who fact checked it Booze? Can you provide links to back up the above?Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
Can someone remind me where the ignore feature is? Geezus. And I thought lou was the craziest. As a reminder, this is the same guy who thinks the Supreme Court doesn’t interpret the constitution. So, alternate reality is his jam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
Public reps is all I got, I’m afraid. I pay even less attention to this stuff than I did over the last couple years. I’ve come to believe that it’s best to not put much faith in anything/anyone that is clearly slanted one way or the other. I have no agenda, like some people clearly do.
The more sensational it sounds, the more skeptical I am.
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Seriously shove it Ville. You're wrong on the Court and you refuse to read anything about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
I looked up Fauci, BBC and NYC orphans. I found no retraction from the BBC. I did find a 2004 article from the BBC on the subject. Snopes fact-checked it and if that's what Booze is referring to, he's right about really gullible people believing biased sources.
Maybe you should put the people who "educated" you on ignore or show some semblance of intellectual curiosity and read a book.
No I’m not, and you continuing to believe it just shows how out of touch with reality you are. You have some kind of axe to grind about the supreme courts power, and that’s fine but a completely separate argument of which you still don’t understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
No axe to grind and you brought it up again. MORs right. You have real issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
Yeah Mor… that’s one to stick yourself to. Lol. Yep real issues with biased know it alls like mor who can’t admit when he’s wrong even when proven so, and yourself. Who can’t even admit the court interprets the constitution for some unknown reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
1) Fauci did an end-around the law to fund gain of function research on coronaviruses. Had he not done this we would've never had Covid. He also ignored, dismissed and disparaged the use of therapeutics that could've saved hundred of thousands of lives.
2) During the AIDS epidemic Fauci discouraged and prevented inexpensive treatments for AIDS (Bactrim) and focused exclusively on AZT, a toxic drug that caused liver damage and destroyed white blood cells. [does that sound all too familiar?]
From the Huff Post prior to Covid: "Dr. Anthony Fauci is rewriting history. He is doing so to disguise his shameful role in delaying promotion of an AIDS treatment that would have prevented tens of thousands of deaths in the first years of the epidemic."
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/white...tory_b_4762295
From the LA Times in 1993: "The stark reality is that 12 years and 10 billion taxpayer dollars into this epidemic, there’s no cure in sight. The story of how AZT was transformed from an unused chemotherapy into the most widely prescribed AIDS drug, despite accusations of sloppy research and political manipulation, is a cautionary tale of hasty decisions and inexact science."
"Suddenly, the trials were halted after only 16 weeks, two months earlier than planned, because officials felt that it was unethical to withhold a potentially lifesaving drug."
"According to the testimony given that day, more patients in the AZT group had died since the study was halted."
" “I have managed to survive for 11 years with AIDS, and we’re still nowhere, says Callen. “While they were frittering away billions of dollars, while they were dallying with AZT, they were not pursuing treatments that could have saved my life. And I will pay for their stupidity with my life."
[again, does all that sound too familiar?]
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...183-story.html
3) Fauci’s NIH funded experiments on AIDS orphans at the Incarnation Children’s Center in New York City in 2004. In 2005, the city of New York hired the VERA Institute to form a final report on the drug trials. VERA was given no access to medical records for any of the children used in trials. Their report was published in 2008. They reported that twenty-five children died during the drug studies, that an additional fifty-five children died following the studies (in foster care), and, according to Tim Ross, Director of the Child Welfare program at VERA (as of 2009), 29% of the remaining 417 children who were used in drug studies had died (out of a total 532 children that are admitted to have been used).
Again, this video (interview) was published prior to Covid. You be the judge:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyJLYPh9pxY&t=616s
I’ll admit when I’m wrong. The NYC orphan nightmare happened in the 2000’s not the 80’s.Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
On a somewhat related note I’m seeing reports that thee major pharma companies are set to release COVID treatment drugs.
Exactly. When someone is comparing Dr. Fauci to Dr. Mengele, and then brings up 'all the orphans that Dr. Fauci killed with his AIDs experiments', my bullshit radar goes off big time. I had literally never heard that before, and it seemed surprising that Dr. Fauci's career wouldn't have been limited by his performing Dr. Mengele-esque medical experiments that he was conducting. On Orphans. In America. In the 1980's. It also seems hard to believe that in the 18 months (so far) of Fauci being demonized by the fringe right, this is the first time that his grotesque experiments have come up.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
So I do a quick google search.
Here's how context worked: The NIAID, which Fauci runs, did conduct clinical trials on children, and 25 kids did die. The part where context matters is the part where the kids had HIV/AIDS and many of them were very sick when entering the trial.
Now it makes a little more sense.
Interestingly the BBC film that started this in 2004 resulted in an apology by the BBC in 2007, as reported by the Guardian. This was far before anyone knew who Fauci was, so it's not like it's a recent retraction in response to the recent allegations by the crazy anti-Fauci crowd. It's funny how none of the recent articles mention the BBC's apology and acknowledgement of breach of editorial standards. They must have missed it, I guess.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2007/oct/23/2
Alternatively, you could believe that the NIAID somehow conducted fatal and torturous experiments on children but no one was ever held to account. Then a documentary was made, but no investigation was conducted by any type of law enforcement agency. Of course, you are already reading that Fauci-Mengele article because you have (weird, IMO) vested interest in demonizing some civil servant because you don't agree with his policy. It's an extension of the behavior the leads to people threatening local school board officials for upholding mask mandates, or local election officials for not making Trump somehow win.
That's not to say that the trials didn't contain some ethical issues - it sounds like they very likely did. Seems like a far cry from Auschwitz though.
This sounds like a fair summary from a rational person who is not firmly entrenched in one extreme or the other. Thank you for speaking up, since the people we hear the most from are extremists on either side. They try to make the most noise thinking that will make them correct. Instead, it just makes them look stupid, and that’s sad because I don’t really think they are bad people. They are just too invested in their extreme position.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
Read that side of it too however the treatments weren’t voluntary and one of the guardians was charged with child abuse for discontinuing even after the kids health improved as a result. I think the fallout was limited due to it being the gov’t investigating itself. It also shows Fauci has no issue experimenting on humans without their consent. Not Mengele but the flippant attitude towards his “subjects” (and the deaths) is where the comparison comes from. Is it hyperbolic? Yes. Is just about everything these days? Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
Why does it have to be that way? Because the media might do it to rile people up and get ratings, why is it necessary to continue in the style? Why do so many not consider both sides, and abandon their extreme positions they got from their favorite media outlets. That is one reason I’m a bit removed, and even uninformed on some of these details. I don’t want to be poisoned by either side. But I generally know sensational when I see it, and also have a pretty good feel for common sense, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Did any of you actually listen to Lara Logan's comments? I get that making any comparisons to Nazis is bad taste, but I will also say that Fauci will directly or indirectly be responsible for far more human suffering globally than any of us can possibly imagine.
True, mostly. The I am Science (paraphrase) nonsense was a bit much this past weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
Yes, and it's not the first time he has said that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
How about this comparison for our leftists: Fauci has the narcissistic personality of Trump, combined with the sinister political decisions of W. Bush and Dick Cheney. He is pure evil.
Anyone following the flow of info coming from South Africa on this new varient?
Very mild symptoms reported......they are gathering more data.......of course.
Meanwhile, the UK and US governments have managed to scare the hell out of people.
I don't remember him sewing twins together and plunging phenol into their hearts or acting as a traffic cop in front of gas chambers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
Big eyeroll on that one. Pure evil, huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
On a somewhat related note: My cousin works for the CDC as an epidemiologist in Atlanta. He went to many, many years of school and is now making a fraction of what he used to make or could be making. I believe Fauci makes between $400K and $500K per year, which really isn't much money. Especially for a highly accomplished Doctor. I'm sure you are going to tell us about the secret bounty that George Soros pays him for every kid he kills with his twisted experiments, but on a salary basis he is making far less than he could be, and he is at the top of his field. He probably spent most of his career making far less.
If you feel that you need to demonize people that have dedicated their lives to the public good because it somehow makes it easier for you to reconcile your crazy conspiracies about what you want to believe, I'm sure nothing is going to stop you. I get the appeal. t's easier that way - in fact, when I send my people to training on how to build effective selling presentations one of the first things they teach is to create an adversary that you are helping to fight against. That same approach is how your media is keeping you engaged - getting you all fired up about Fauci, or CRT, or insufficiently jesus-inspired holiday cups at Starbucks.
It's also why every single political message on both sides are based almost entirely on fear of something. CRT, Donald Trump, brown people, COVID, etc.
I have mostly heard the US and UK governments telling people not to worry about Omicron at this point in response to the media creating the fear.Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedXblue
You need to look into Fauci’s methods before you say public good in reference to him. Not fearful at all either and I’m an individual. There is no public good with gov’t. It is a necessary annoyance at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
What I have heard from the media (NBC and ABC nightly news) is they are still studying it, but it does NOT seem to have severe symptoms.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
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Hearing much of the same after what seemed like a brief, initial freak out.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
Yes it is.Quote:
“Exploiting the tragedy of people who became victims of criminal pseudo-medical experiments in Auschwitz in a debate about vaccines, pandemic and people who fight for saving human lives is shameful,” Poland’s Auschwitz-Birkenau Museum and Memorial said Tuesday in a Twitter statement. “It is disrespectful to victims & a sad symptom of moral and intellectual decline.”
It is if our conversation was about vaccines and not Fauci in particular.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
They were particularly addressing the comparison of Fauci to Mengele, and Lara Logan's Fox report.
It pertains to people on this board who think Fauci is pure evil, and the necessity to compare him to someone who really was.
Not speaking for anyone else. My feeling of why he’s not far off is both Drs experimented on vulnerable humans without consent. That’s the comparison not the body counts or other implications. He’s not exactly a “do no harm” kind of doc.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
In the example of the AIDS kids at a time when AIDS was a death sentence if both the parents had AIDS, and the minor was too young to give his/her own consent, would you attempt to save their life with an experimental drug? Maybe the parents already died. Hardly compares to cruel mass extermination of children.
There's no point in discussing this with you but the intent was to see if the kids could handle the treatment. It was not to cure them. Also, some of the foster parents objected and one was tried for child abuse. It was disgusting and no rewriting of history by Snopes or others changes that.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
Well, who’s rewriting of history DOES count. Do YOU get to chose the truth? Since I was not there nor fully aware of all the facts, how are we to know? I go with the preponderance of evidence and what seems most likely. I am NOT speaking to this particular event, but the world in general. I don’t know, and you don’t know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
My SIL has stage 4 cancer coursing through her body. They have three kids with the youngest finishing high school, the middle child finishing college, and the oldest finishing at Vandy law school. It’s questionable as to whether she will see their upcoming graduations.
The mom is involved with experimental treatments since nothing else has worked. (Husband and wife doctors, BTW.) When nothing else works, you keep trying things. If she dies but they learn something from the trials, I’m sure she will be pleased by that.
Sorry to hear about your SIL. Hope she finds a treatment that works and recovers.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
Thank you. Not looking good, but you do what you can do and never give up hope. Try what looks like the best option, despite long odds. That could be easy to twist in hindsight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
It’s not one person’s struggle. It’s an entire family and network of friends and colleagues. The network is wide reaching.
Can’t give up for sure!Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
Prayers to the entire circle of loved ones. Tough thing for all involved to fight together.
Don’t think your getting MID’s sarcasm on the evil part.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
If you look at Fauci’s career he had some success and failures, but that’s the true meaning of science. Unfortunately the left and press has put him on some kind of pedestal because he had run ins with Trump. He has had a decent career in public service. Unfortunately he has big deficiencies in understanding the private medical sector. Mainly because he has not practiced there.
Why he waded in to politics by bringing up J6 is beyond me. Tells me he’s not as apolitical as he should be and looked like a typical DC bureaucratic hack (not saying he is, but I’ll let others judge). And, that goes for the CDC leadership as well.
Finally, wonder why in 2009 we didn’t hear more about his doom and gloom prediction with 1 and 3 Americans will get the H1N1 (not to mention the mass deaths)? Obviously very concerning because it was quickly known to be dangerous and lethality to kids. Oh that’s right, a Republican wasn’t in office.
Bottom line is it really wrong to question science and those in public service? If you listen to his dire predictions over the years, you would never let the kids outside.
Do you see how a neutral observer might question whether participants of similar trials, whatever they were that you take objection to, might have been similarly desperate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
I am very slow to condemn a person as “pure evil”.
Imperfect? Absolutely, and universally.
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No issue with adults freely taking part in trials. That’s not what happened in NYC and was denied to COVID patients.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
He didn’t. He’s a much bigger picture sadist than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
No words!Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton