Indiana. Indiana…Let it go…Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
Printable View
Indiana. Indiana…Let it go…Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
Would you be saying that if it was you who knew one of those kids that was having trouble breathing on his own?Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Meanwhile beds are filling up in multiple parts of the country and thus, back to operations being postponed, diagnosis’ being delayed etc.
At some point, yeah we will be at a point where we “can live with this” because of immunity with vaccines etc and our body developing enough defenses but we aren’t there yet.
I’d be at the hospital not crusading on a message board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
I’m not one of those people, my point is have some freaking compassion for your fellow man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
If you want to stick your head in the sand, do you.
No, it’s here. It sucks. There’s a vaccine you can get if you need/want it. I care care more about where it came from, how and why at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
Edit: it’s dangerous to conflate authoritarian tendencies with compassion.
A-freaking-men.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
You know how can't get the vaccine? Kids under 12. Like my 3 kids under 12. Sometimes people's choices effect other people.
Hmmm, what do other people’s choices have to do with your kids under 12?Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
Pretty interesting comment.... coming from the guy who literally just today advocated for the indiscriminate nuclear bombing of an entire region in another thread:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
When people's choices endanger other people, I think that they cease to just become 'their choices'. For the same reason that I can't walk downtown and start shooting a gun in the air - my choice has a significant potential to injure others who are merely going about their lives and not specifically opting in to the risky scenario I've created with my poorly informed 'choice'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Sure, but what does that have to do with this conversation?Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
I'm going to assume at this point that you are being intentionally obtuse, although I'm not exactly sure why (yet).Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
1. While it looks increasingly like unvaccinated people can spread the disease, the evidence still points to the unvaccinated as the major sources of transmission. This transmission increases the risk of infection for unvaccinated children and the immunocompromised. It also increases the potential for variants to emerge that could negatively impact the population at large.
2. Hordes of people being admitted to the ICU as a result of their 'choice' strains the healthcare system and reduces the standard of care for other folks. For example: My 5 year old broke his arm last weekend and I had to take him to the ER. Fortunately we live in a highly vaccinated area where the pediatric ER was not overrun with kids with COVID, but that's not the case everywhere and it impacts the standard of care some people receive through no fault or choice of their own. In some cases cancer treatments and needed surgeries are being delayed because the hospitals don't have the beds.
I get that you are the "personal choice guy" on this board, but since we all live in a society together nobody gets to make choices in a complete vacuum, and I think it's a bit naïve to engage in a philosophical exercise as though our choices don't have an impact on others. I don't think that the government should necessarily force people to get vaccinated, but I do think we should make it difficult for them to participate in society if they choose not to. Which is basically how a society works at it's most basic level - you agree to abide by some rules (whether codified or unspoken) and if you don't you either get shunned or arrested depending on the severity of the offense.
Yep…all of this. Public reps.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
Objectively your child’s choice that broke his arm put strain on a crowded system. Hope he’s ok (and doesn’t need surgery), that sucks especially if it’s his dominate arm. Been there. No fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
As a father of young ones myself there are bigger concerns than whether Lou gets a shot.
As to the rest. I’d much rather live in a society of free choice than an over protective bubble state.
This should get even MORE fun now!
It’s long past time to Old Yeller this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
That's low, even by the standards of this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Maybe I should have a talk with him about his choice to fall on the stairs and break his arm? While I'm at it I'll make sure to tell him not to choose to get cancer like the other kid I saw being wheeled in while we were there. Then I would really have to worry about him getting COVID, what with the Chemotherapy and all.
That's a truly ridiculous argument that I think you might want to reconsider.
With all due respect, the “thread” is not the only problem. The “issue” is kind of a big deal. It’s been in the news. You’ve probably seen it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
How people handle this is the biggest curiosity to me.
We went from “pandemic of the unvaccinated” to “everyone needs a booster shot” almost as quickly as Afghanistan fell to the Taliban.
Reality is setting in. But it’s really not so bad.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/how-we-live-coronavirus-forever/619783/
I always appreciate an article where a case is presented without unnecessarily condemning one side or the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
I truly feel bad for your son. I’ve sat in ER triage for hours at least a dozen times with broken bones, dislocated limbs and sometimes not knowing where I am. It sucks. It’s painful and you see awful things that put your situation in perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
However, your argument was based on healthcare system stresses. My disgust is not with the 30% of fellow travelers but with the sick Franken docs who toy with these viruses and have the nerve to pass the responsibility for the consequences onto the masses. Pure Sociopaths.
Is there a reason we cannot be upset with both?Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Sure. That’s your choice but your tilting at windmills at this point with the unvaxxed. While they’re not imaginary your affect on their choice is. Frankly, the more they’re pushed the more reluctant they’re going to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
In fact, it is all lined out for the next five plus years:Quote:
Originally Posted by principal
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fauci-wan...120241706.html
Dr Fauci only wants a few billion per year to prepare vaccines now for possible future pandemics. But it’s the few folks who are against vaccines that are doing it for the money.
The longer you follow this argument the more absurd the stances it's forcing you to take.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
You blame the medical system for not being able to handle a once in a lifetime Pandemic vs. the people who chose not to get a safe and effective vaccine to prevent their hospitalization?
I think it's fine to want to understand the origins of the virus, etc. and if it did come from a lab that's a BIG deal, but I don't think it absolves blame from anybody else.
I don't agree with your point that the 30% are hopeless cases either. I think maybe 10% are, the rest are people that have consumed way too much misinformation. I know of at least on person who got the vaccine after being 'against it' due to pressure from work. Oddly - their biggest concern with getting the vax was that they didn't want their friend group to find out, which tells you how this has ceased to become a medical issue for many and has become a political one.
I'm sorry, but what is your argument? A few billion dollars really isn't that much money, and I sure as shit hope that we are preparing vaccines for possible future pandemics.Quote:
Originally Posted by principal
Are you against all medical research, or just vaccines? You do know that Fauci doesn't get to keep that money right? It's not being paid to him personally, it's for research.
First bold: I assume you refer to the argument that the more society coerces, the more recalcitrant the unvaxxed become? If so, this is human nature. It amounts to nothing more than bullying, and many refuse to be bullied. People are motivated in different ways, and this is a poor tactic. By the way, did you know the largest unvaxxed educational group is people with PhD's?Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
Second bold: This is absolutely not a "once in a lifetime" pandemic. Many of us on this board are old enough to remember small pox: twice as contagious and nearly 100x as deadly as COVID-19. There are also some folks alive who lived through the polio epidemic: roughly as contagious as small pox, but even more deadly. It also comes with the added issue of paralysis for many. Kind of makes "long COVID" seem trivial. The fact that this "once in a lifetime pandemic" line is circulating shows just how much misinformation is out there. Real misinformation, not just the kind that contradicts a narrative.
Third bold: neither here nor there to the argument, but there really is no "if" about it. The forensics point that direction, and the "Fauci emails" acknowledged it.
It looks to me that the largest unvaxxed group have high school or less,43%Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
The next largest are some college 39%
And those with college or more are 18%
What am I missing?
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...itor-analysis/
What does the largest unvaxxed group having phds (if that is even true, which I doubt) have to do anything? Congratulations they went to school for longer than a lot of us. Are you implying they are smart? Because I don’t buy that either. They may be booksmart, which just gives them a bunch of letters after their name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
The majority of the unvaxxed have some college. Only about 25-30% of the pop has a degree. So you’re are argument about the uneducated not getting the vax is missing data/facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
I was commenting on the notion that the "largest" group of unvaccinated people have PHD's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
That's hard to imagine if the group is only 18% of the unvaccinated.
About a third of the population has at least a bachelors degree…if you include an associates, looking at around 42-45%Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Help me and yourself out and research the % of the pop with PHDs and then cross that with what percentage of the unvaxxed they comprise. I don’t know or care but the bs statements made here regarding the unvaxxed are getting tired.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
A quick google search shows that 1.2% of the country have a phd…so just using round numbers here say 4 million people have a PhD. Of that 4 million, I can’t find anywhere that states what percentage of that are unvaxxed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
They're not the majority of unvaxxed obviously. The point is that a greater % of PhDs are unvaxxed than any other education level.
And it definitely matters if we're going to try to figure out how to get more people vaxxed. If all we're planning to do is piss and moan about the unvaxxed, then I guess it doesn't matter.
Simply not true unless I’m completely missing something. how are you reaching that conclusion?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMuskies
Well, I know I saw it somewhere! :) Sorry, don't have hard numbers, but I think this from WebMD on vaccine hesitancy is where the notion came from.
"The eye-opener: By May, the group with PhDs were more hesitant than those with lower educational levels."
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid...ncy-90-million
Somebody maths and reads good too…:)Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMuskies
I always have an issue with a random study of one million people surveyed and then extrapolating that to state an outcome. I know that is basically what statistics are, but that’s kind of my problem with statistics based on polling …you can make them say whatever you want them too. Not saying that is what is happening here, but not something I’m taking to the grave.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMuskies
On what have you based your opinion? The news? Confirmation bias from anecdotal stories?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
My opinion about what? If it is referring to a previous post of mine, that’s my fault as I read what Paul sent completely wrong. Anyways, It may be true that the most hesitancy is people with phds, I just don’t trust a polling study to come to that conclusion. Anyways, spent way too much time on this about something that I don’t think matters. Carry on :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew