Politics Thread

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10-07-2021, 07:17 AM
boozehound

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Tax costs don’t cost anything. Now that the wars are over let’s use that money to pay for things and keep spending where it is/was.

If you are talking about reducing the defense budget to fund programs and infrastructure at home, I couldn't agree more. We currently spend an astronomical amount on defense spending, and yet are still unprepared for modern warfare (which is increasingly taking place in the virtual realm).

https://i.imgur.com/WuLX1jf.jpg

For some reason, neither side of the aisle wants to do that though. The Democrats pay lip service to it from time to time, but for the most part they don't actually put it in the budget. Don't think for a second thought that mainstream Republicans wouldn't absolutely excoriate Democrats if they significantly cut defense spending though.

I'm all for the United States maintaining the most powerful Military in the world. I just think we can probably do it for less than 3X what China spends. Lot of Defense Industry money flowing into political coffers though...
10-07-2021, 08:28 AM
Strange Brew

Quote:

Originally Posted by boozehound

If you are talking about reducing the defense budget to fund programs and infrastructure at home, I couldn't agree more. We currently spend an astronomical amount on defense spending, and yet are still unprepared for modern warfare (which is increasingly taking place in the virtual realm).

https://i.imgur.com/WuLX1jf.jpg

For some reason, neither side of the aisle wants to do that though. The Democrats pay lip service to it from time to time, but for the most part they don't actually put it in the budget. Don't think for a second thought that mainstream Republicans wouldn't absolutely excoriate Democrats if they significantly cut defense spending though.

I'm all for the United States maintaining the most powerful Military in the world. I just think we can probably do it for less than 3X what China spends. Lot of Defense Industry money flowing into political coffers though...

Would help to reallocate resources in and from the defense budget. Also, we could get rid of some of the non military programs the military runs. The military serves one function and it’s doing too much right now.
10-07-2021, 08:49 AM
Smails

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulxu

And I would much rather have Biden trying to address these problems than Trump, worried about his big lie that he's convinced so many suckers to believe in.

Wow..this mindset is just scary. What has President Biden done (besides not being Donald Trump) that gives you confidence in his ability to address the problems we have with the labor force, inflation, and the border crisis? What has he actually done?
10-07-2021, 09:17 AM
boozehound

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Would help to reallocate resources in and from the defense budget. Also, we could get rid of some of the non military programs the military runs. The military serves one function and it’s doing too much right now.

A cynic may say that the military running so many programs is a byproduct of a large military during a protracted period of (relative) peace, and a government that is trying to find things for them to 'do'. Which I don't entirely hate. If you have a standing army of about 1.3M people you need to find something for them to do other that just sitting around waiting for a war.
10-07-2021, 09:30 AM
boozehound

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smails

Wow..this mindset is just scary. What has President Biden done (besides not being Donald Trump) that gives you confidence in his ability to address the problems we have with the labor force, inflation, and the border crisis? What has he actually done?

That's a fair push, but there is also a opposite mindset that is also scary.

I believe that you have previously indicated that you don't believe there was widespread electoral fraud (although not entirely sure you have stated that). Let's say I concede that from a policy perspective Trump was superior to Biden (I don't, necessarily, but for the sake of argument)... How much does it matter that he tried to overturn the election after losing? Even if you remove the January 6th "protest" from the equation, there is still loads of evidence that Trump and his inner circle tried to influence a variety of people across several states to intervene on his behalf in the electoral process. If that's not a red line on whether someone should be President, what is? What is left that he could do that would be a disqualifier?

I don't think Biden is doing a good job. I also don't think Biden orTrump should be President in 2024. Hell, I don't think either one of them should be President right now. I hope we have a choice in 2024. I will say - Biden would have to REALLY screw things up for me to vote for Trump in 2024 if those are the options. Mostly due to how he handled the election loss.
10-07-2021, 03:24 PM
Strange Brew

Quote:

Originally Posted by boozehound

A cynic may say that the military running so many programs is a byproduct of a large military during a protracted period of (relative) peace, and a government that is trying to find things for them to 'do'. Which I don't entirely hate. If you have a standing army of about 1.3M people you need to find something for them to do other that just sitting around waiting for a war.

Probably need to consider whether a million plus fighting force is still needed.
10-07-2021, 03:25 PM
Strange Brew

Quote:

Originally Posted by boozehound

That's a fair push, but there is also a opposite mindset that is also scary.

I believe that you have previously indicated that you don't believe there was widespread electoral fraud (although not entirely sure you have stated that). Let's say I concede that from a policy perspective Trump was superior to Biden (I don't, necessarily, but for the sake of argument)... How much does it matter that he tried to overturn the election after losing? Even if you remove the January 6th "protest" from the equation, there is still loads of evidence that Trump and his inner circle tried to influence a variety of people across several states to intervene on his behalf in the electoral process. If that's not a red line on whether someone should be President, what is? What is left that he could do that would be a disqualifier?

I don't think Biden is doing a good job. I also don't think Biden orTrump should be President in 2024. Hell, I don't think either one of them should be President right now. I hope we have a choice in 2024. I will say - Biden would have to REALLY screw things up for me to vote for Trump in 2024 if those are the options. Mostly due to how he handled the election loss.

Did you feel the same about the efforts post 2016 to overturn the election and remove Trump over fraudulent Russiagate?
10-07-2021, 03:46 PM
boozehound

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Did you feel the same about the efforts post 2016 to overturn the election and remove Trump over fraudulent Russiagate?

I felt the investigation was probably warranted, but the impeachment was not, as they did not find sufficient evidence to impeach.

I also draw a pretty firm distinction between a bunch of morons in Congress wasting time on a doomed impeachment trial and a sitting President personally hitting the phones to try to get the election results changed through various means. An impeachment trial works within the confines of the political system which required a 2/3 majority of the Senate to convict and remove, which is also why it was doomed from day 1. I'd argue that what Trump did was to try to work outside of the intent of the political system to impact the results of the election.

In defense of Trump's character (sort of), I do think that he believes he won the election and was/is fighting for justice. I don't think he has any evidence he won (because he didn't), but I think he believes it. I don't think he believes he could have lost unless the election was rigged, and I think he could pass a lie detector to that effect. I also think that fact, if anything, makes him even less suitable to be the President than I thought he was before. He isn't actively setting out to destroy our Democracy, but if it's collateral damage in him not accepting that he could have lost an election he's fine with that.
10-07-2021, 04:18 PM
Strange Brew

Quote:

Originally Posted by boozehound

I felt the investigation was probably warranted, but the impeachment was not, as they did not find sufficient evidence to impeach.

I also draw a pretty firm distinction between a bunch of morons in Congress wasting time on a doomed impeachment trial and a sitting President personally hitting the phones to try to get the election results changed through various means. An impeachment trial works within the confines of the political system which required a 2/3 majority of the Senate to convict and remove, which is also why it was doomed from day 1. I'd argue that what Trump did was to try to work outside of the intent of the political system to impact the results of the election.

In defense of Trump's character (sort of), I do think that he believes he won the election and was/is fighting for justice. I don't think he has any evidence he won (because he didn't), but I think he believes it. I don't think he believes he could have lost unless the election was rigged, and I think he could pass a lie detector to that effect. I also think that fact, if anything, makes him even less suitable to be the President than I thought he was before. He isn't actively setting out to destroy our Democracy, but if it's collateral damage in him not accepting that he could have lost an election he's fine with that.

Fair answer.

Pet peeve. It's not our Democracy. It's a Constitutional Republic. We are not and should not be a Democracy.
10-08-2021, 09:18 AM
Smails

Quote:

Originally Posted by boozehound

That's a fair push, but there is also a opposite mindset that is also scary.

I believe that you have previously indicated that you don't believe there was widespread electoral fraud (although not entirely sure you have stated that). Let's say I concede that from a policy perspective Trump was superior to Biden (I don't, necessarily, but for the sake of argument)... How much does it matter that he tried to overturn the election after losing? Even if you remove the January 6th "protest" from the equation, there is still loads of evidence that Trump and his inner circle tried to influence a variety of people across several states to intervene on his behalf in the electoral process. If that's not a red line on whether someone should be President, what is? What is left that he could do that would be a disqualifier?

I don't think Biden is doing a good job. I also don't think Biden orTrump should be President in 2024. Hell, I don't think either one of them should be President right now. I hope we have a choice in 2024. I will say - Biden would have to REALLY screw things up for me to vote for Trump in 2024 if those are the options. Mostly due to how he handled the election loss.

This is all fair and yes, I never believed there was widespread fraud within voting system to oust DJT from office. If Trump would not have become unhinged in the months leading up to the election and post-election, I would get behind a bid for reelection. I can deal with someone being an asshole if they have all their faculties. 2024 is a long time away but if this country has to choose between President Trump and Biden again..it will be another 4 year shit show no matter who wins. I guess I'd rather have a 4 year shit show with someone I align with on public policy if it comes down to it. It might be a 'hold your nose and vote' moment for a lot of Americans.