How will we get to the herd immunity level if a significant portion of adults refuse to get the vaccine?
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How will we get to the herd immunity level if a significant portion of adults refuse to get the vaccine?
All while the net worths of Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey continue to climb by the BILLIONSQuote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Funny how that works huh? You forgot to mention Fauci in that comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded-05
They can just get Covid instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
That isn't going to help things get back to normal as quickly as a vaccine would. Relying on herd immunity through half the country getting COVID drags this thing out for a lot longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMuskies
I agree, but that's the other choice for herd immunity.
Because you don't need a vaccine to achieve herd immunity. There are 2 paths to herd immunity..vaccine and infection. Vaccine definitely speeds it up, but immunity is not wholly dependent on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
Does that matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
Religion is belief without proof or evidence. I present science-based arguments. Part of science is offering different evidence supported by data and analysis. I don’t see much of that here. Do you have something to offer?Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
For someone that claims to value randomized controlled trials so much you sure do pick and choose your variables quite a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
Yup, reading back a little bit to laugh at the hot takes in the thread, but had a patient today: 37 year old female, 3 weeks post COVID, no significant past medical history, slightly elevated d-dimer, DVT of the great saphenous vein, bilateral pulmonary embolisms, ground-glass opacities (obviously), no smoking history, no oral contraceptive history, no spontaneous abortions, no family history, etc. etc. Think you see what I'm getting at here.. clinically it's known COVID causes clotting disorders, wonder if there were any physicians, researchers, scientists involved in the federal government's decision to pause the J&J vaccine but I'd assume most likely not, or if so, they were suppressed by good ole' politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
I didn't pick and choose anything. I also didn't devise the study. I simply provided the results of that study showing little spread among student athletes and that masks didn't make difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
As usual, you didn't answer my question. Are you saying that the study is no good because they didn't include a particular sport? Are you saying you have evidence that including basketball would change the findings? Again, why does it matter?
Actually I probably answer your rhetorical questions probably more than anyone. This isn’t difficult and failing to connect the dots is a major issue with those that have extreme views. You have an extreme view whether you believe it or not, so I will connect the dots. Your initial quote:Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
Then I asked you to report on winter indoor sports, specifically basketball. Because... why would you apply the results of a study that included outdoor soccer or cross country to indoor basketball? They were played at different times of the year, with different incidences in covid locally, in different environments and social gatherings, different use of a ball, and the list goes on. The differences in “their sport” far outweighs similarities. Using a mask during cross country didn’t slow the spread? Wow that’s groundbreaking stuff there (sarcasm font).Quote:
Pre-print study shows almost no COVID transmission among high school athletes while playing their sport
Citing a study done in the fall during lower incidence (in Wisconsin nonetheless) and lower risk activities hardly validates the utility of masks and the risk of sports that are very different. The study may be good but you took data from that study and incorrectly applied it to other sports to make a blanket statement. Context matters.
No appt. needed in CO. Show up and get jabbed.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
A minute of levity on the one year anniversary:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1253474772702429189
No, you said "now do winter indoor sports". So so I provided what the study demonstrated on indoor sports (it clearly didn't take place in the winter). Then you said "The study didn't include basketball". But I never said it did, nor did I say basketball would be the same. But I will say based on the study results, that would be a valid hypothesis. However I appreciate that you saw patients who caught it playing basketball, and I recognize it could be different given the nature of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
You don't think there are a lot of idiots out there who would be surprised by that? I've got news for you - some folks would advocate for cross country runners to wear 2 masks because of expelling a lot more air.Quote:
Using a mask during cross country didnÂ’t slow the spread? Wow thatÂ’s groundbreaking stuff there (sarcasm font).
You may want to check the case data in WI in the fall.Quote:
Citing a study done in the fall during lower incidence (in Wisconsin nonetheless)
You consider my views extreme, but in most cases over the last year, my position has proven to be correct and eventually recognized over time: The net-negative effects of lockdowns, the lack of direct contact spread, children not acting as major vectors/largely being unaffected, the issues with the PCR test, seasonality as the primary driver for virus spread and NPIs doing little, just to name a few.
I content the only "extreme" views are those not supported by reality (note this is not directed at you, Lloyd, just generally speaking).
Hey Docs
Do you think we will be out of the woods by the end of August/September? We will have a decent percentage of people vaccinated, summer weather slowing down the spread, those still getting Covid but then won't be getting it again or spreading it for a period of time. I don't think it will be gone but thinking that it will be dying out.
If there weren’t so many damn people refusing to get
Vaccinated, we would probably be at herd immunity right now, and we could be back to normal. 52% have at least one shot, need to get
to about 75%...worried that we may not get there.
Well 52% is not bad IMO. We will still have May, June, July and August.
I’m think the problem will be less about having time to get the shots out, and more about the people who, for whatever reason, are not willing or able to get the shots. Just my guess and I’m not judging anyone. I had my shots quite a while ago, and it was no big deal for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by MADXSTER
Again, your original post was this: “Pre-print study shows almost no COVID transmission among high school athletes while playing their sport”Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
Your stance on masking and covid transmission is well documented so it was not just an innocent post to present some data on youth sports. Literally one post after you condescendingly praised “libs” for starting to figure it out. Then followed it up with a post that ended with “play ball... maskless.” There is a large difference between indoor sports and outdoor sports and it doesn’t seem like you believe that to be true based on this study that included girls volleyball. Even the CDC makes a big deal to limit indoor contact.
Outdoor spread has been proven to be minimal as this study points out. I do believe that the number of people that would be shocked by that is small. There are extremists on both sides of course, and unless XULou is not in fact a Russian bot I would say that is one extreme and likely a very small representation of society’s outlook on this (hopefully).
My point with sports is this: we all want to get back to normal, we don’t want to deprive our kids of experience and development. But why did we have to force basketball during the peak of the pandemic? Even taking seasonality as a factor, which is still debatable but I believe holds some credence, why wouldn’t we wait 8 weeks to have our kids play basketball? Because it interrupts baseball season? Just like locking down everything last year around this time was not the best decision in hindsight, promoting high risk activities should also be considered.
Colleagues I interact with daily were also surprised at this and thought the same thing about whether there was anyone clinical making this decision. The optics are horrible and although noteggs mentioned the media is getting ahold of this, I really haven’t seen it much of anywhere. The vaccine hesitancy was already teetering, and locally in NE Ohio I have seen almost a complete stall in new signups. I thought for sure this would be minimal by summer, but it looks to be a slow burn. Ugh...Quote:
Originally Posted by GIMMFD
Yeah, I mean in most places I feel like it is pretty easy to get the shot if you want it right now. So I agree, it isn't an issue of time, as much as it is those who havent got it yet, not wanting it. Now with more time maybe a % of those people will be convinced by family or friends or their doctors? There will be at least some % of college kids who are required to have it upon return to school in the fall that maybe haven't otherwise got the vaccine yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
If it's obvious to you, and to most with any common sense, why are those in authority continuing to force such absurdities on people? The example below highlights just one of many absurdities forced on the population - and explains why so many question everything that is going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
Yes, it's very real! Last Wednesday a face-masked high school distance runner in Oregon collapsed unconscious on the track a few meters from the finish line — due to what her coach deemed “complete oxygen debt.”Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
Coach Dave Turnbull said: “In the sport of track and field part of what you’re doing is pushing the limits. I’ve seen lots of kids go down at the end of a race. What you usually see is them coming to a controlled finish. They get wobbly. I’ve never seen anybody -- I’ve been doing this for 31 years -- and I’ve never seen anybody right below the finish line basically lose consciousness."
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/jo...0event%20again.
I would be interested in the opinion of our resident Doctors about implications of this study, specifically as it pertains to the mRNA vaccines:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33053430/
I'll give this paper a proper read in a bit and see what I can make out of it, it's going to be a lot of theory however.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
Yeah extremely short news cycle with covid patients dying from blood clots vs vaccine. Guess it didn’t get many clicks. Now people developing clots from vaccine, story not going away. Unfortunately, the context is now lost. Damn shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
Nurse:
"The very first day [at Elmhurst] I was shocked. It was something I’ve never seen before,” she said. “Patients were alone in the rooms on ventilators [with] no family allowed in [to advocate for them]. People were just dying from gross negligence, medical malpractice, [and] mismanagement.”
“For me, that was really difficult to swallow. Everything made sense to me at that moment of why there were so many deaths in New York,” she said.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ny...al-malpractice
The vaccine thing has turned strange.
Just a few short months ago we were worried about not having enough and rationing the distribution along some parameters
The roadblock to stopping the disease seemed to be not enough vaccine to get everyone taken care of quick enough.
Today it seems like we have more vaccines than people who want to receive it.
That just is crazy.
Yes, I’m sure there was a bonus plan for doctors and nurses that factored in how many people they killed.
Do better, Lou. They get paid to show up and do their jobs. Maybe hospitals care about how it’s coded, etc, but this sounds to me like exactly what they were trying to avoid. Healthcare was overwhelmed, especially in NYC. My wife is on calls almost all day, every day with people in NYC. The constant sirens in the background were disturbing. The local NYC folks said it has NEVER been anything like that. It wasn’t that doctors and nurses suddenly and inexplicably decided to stop doing their jobs. They couldn’t keep up.
Newsflash, Paul. People ARE crazy.
Well, that would be hard to argue against.....Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
I bet you still believe the videos of people falling over dead in the streets of China due to Covid are real....Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
I’m more down the middle, where common sense and the truth generally reside. I have no tiresome agenda that I’m pushing, unlike some others.
.
So what is common sense and truth, then?Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
Look at both extremes, then move toward the middle. It’s somewhere in between.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
So then I would assume you would believe that socialism is the answer - - given that's in the middle between capitalism and communism. Is that the takeaway?Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
Wrong once again, Lou. But you are consistent!Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
My bad for not just continuing to ignore you.
So with COVID, one extreme is thinking it’s the next Black Death, and we must shut down the world and hide. The other extreme is that COVID is a big hoax and doesn’t really exist. That puts, I believe, this entire forum in the middle.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
Those closest to the edges are the least reasonable, and you have to admit there is a very wide spectrum, right here on this board. If you can’t see that, I don’t know what to tell you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton