You may not consider that to be harassing but I do. At the same time if that were the case, I think we would have already seen such cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z
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You may not consider that to be harassing but I do. At the same time if that were the case, I think we would have already seen such cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z
Some Colleges have already enacted vaccination policies as what is well within their right, just like any business or institution is allowed to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by MADXSTER
I don’t know how you consider that harassment. Anyone is well within their right to make the choice to not get vaccinated, doesn’t mean there may not be consequences to those choices, just like anything else.
I plan to being vaccinated soon. A counter point is business can’t refuse a public service based on their biases. For example a cake in contradiction to the owners values. Public service laws argued for the past two decades may come into play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
Are you being serious??? Again, people who only watch / read liberal media are truly in a vacuum...Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
They would just not be able to enter the establishment...basically the same way masks are being treated now in a lot of places...don’t want to wear a mask but still want to get food from the restaurant? No worries, we will bring it out to you once it is done, or you can get it delivered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
I believe, at least in Georgia, there is a difference between protected classes and public health. I’ve read that if the business says you must wear a mask, that is enforceable. Most businesses don’t enforce it because they don’t want to alienate their customers, but it is legally enforceable. It’s not religious beliefs or sexual preference, it’s a health issue, at least here (and in common sense). I happen to fully agree with that right of the business owner. There is not health issue to your staff or other clients if you serve someone of a different faith or sexual orientation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
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I prefer to be referred to as “enlightened about mask efficacy”, but yes. I’m looking to schedule the J&J shot (one jab, less reaction from what I understand). I won’t wear a mask 2 weeks after that and will fight anyone who cries about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
Happy you are getting vaccine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
As to your last sentence, look at Johnny bad ass over here.
Good points. Should someone who doesn’t get a vaccine due to their religion be denied entry to a business or employment? Masks are a separate issue. I have no problem with businesses requiring them. The Gov’t requirement poses Civil Liberty problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
You mean, like get off an island where a volcano is exploding? The dumbasses in power want to save people from Covid (< 0.15% CFR) - by allowing people to die from the volcano. That's what progressive 21st Century enlightenment thinking is all about:Quote:
Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z
https://beckernews.com/caribbean-vol...reports-38451/
I guess we're not going to have much of a military either:Quote:
Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z
https://americanconservativemovement...covid-vaccine/
There will be people who refuse to get vaccinated. They have that right and I don’t begrudge them that. We will have no way of knowing who they are (under normal circumstances), so that’s that unless they want “something special”. If they are prohibited from travel or other such privileges, I’d have no problem with that. I’ve got my card showing my shot dates. Eventually I may need a new card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
We just need to learn to get by until we get further down the road and have a better understanding of the evolving virus. The more people who are willing to play along, the sooner we will all get there.
How? There are several vaccines already required for those EXACT same situations I listed.Quote:
Originally Posted by MADXSTER
Yeah, you need to prove shots to get your kid into school, and even to get your dog into boarding. Sometimes you just have to do it, whether you like it or not, or be left out of some things.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z
I understand the sentiment but requiring a vaccine to travel freely within the country is a huge encroachment on basic Civil Rights. We’re been allowing travel before vaccines for this virus. With that precedent it would be a huge overreach and outside of the power of the US government.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
Not sure how it works with the military but in healthcare (can depend on the setting) you have to get certain vaccines, if you don't you cant work there. While I have only heard of a few of these places require the COVID vaccine so far, I think soon enough it will be required many more places. The biggest reasons they didnt right away, imo, was because the vaccine was polarizing, especially back in December when nursing homes started getting it, and because supply was low.Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
I doubt we'd see that for travel within the US. Maybe travel to other countries. Or maybe a specific resort or place of business within the US would require it but not the government for travel within the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
I wouldn't be opposed to the US requiring anyone traveling here from other countries though to have had the vaccine. Someone might points I'd be willing to consider that that would be a really bad idea for various reasons, and they may be right, but just thinking superficially about it, I wouldnt mind that at all.
I’m not talking about the federal government and interstate travel, so much. Many states have had restrictions about entry without quarantining. Now, that’s clearly impossible to enforce. Hawaii is a bit easier for obvious reasons. There is a guy on my NFL team message board who flew from Virginia to Dallas to get a shot (he was too young for VA but allowed in Texas). He was heading to Hawaii and needed the shot, because they can actually enforce it. I have zero problem with that (and the laws and timeline are fuzzy, so don't hold me too that, but you should get the point).Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
We have a European cruise that was cancelled but is now rescheduled for next spring. Should those countries be able to deny entry without vaccination? Would a cruise line be responsible to ask for proof of vaccination? (Windstar, small ships with about 300 passengers....awesome! But I digress.) I would say HELL YES!
I’m not talking about driving from Cincinnati to Indy. That can’t be monitored or enforced, but the bigger picture tells the tale. Is it smart to require vaccines? I think the answer is obviously yes. I know some extremists will disagree. I think I’m boringly down the middle. If it might help, masks, shots or whatever, play along and go with the odds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...se-events.htmlQuote:
Over 167 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through April 5, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 2,794 reports of death (0.00167%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths.
Yes, I was being serious.
Euros and the US can ban entry for any reason of a non citizen. Not even a good one. The airlines can require a vaccine and some choose to not. No gov’t of or within the US can ban travel within the States by US citizens. Not saying vaccines are a bad idea, I’ll get mine but the Gov’ts of the US are out of their depth with these mandates. Especially for this length of time. Even the War Powers Act has an expiration and its relatively short.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
So, if you die in a motorcycle accident, and test positive for Covid, it's listed as a Covid death. But if you die within hours or days after receiving the vaccine, it's something else. Oh, I get it. Why report the deaths on VAERS anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
I’ll just say everyone is out of their depth when it comes to global pandemics, and we all need to do our best to get thru this as soon as possible. I’m certainly not claiming to have the answers, just expressing what I think is common sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
I wonder why Newsweek says otherwise (as well as numerous other outlets). as of 3/8:Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
"Newsweek selected only deaths as an adverse event, and selected the COVID vaccine as the only vaccine in the dataset. We specified Pfizer and Moderna as the vaccine manufacturers. We also chose our symptom onset interval as "All days," which ranges from 0 to over 120 days. We did not specify gender or age in the overall results. Our time frame ran from the earliest possible dates, "before 1990," to ensure every COVID vaccine was included.
Our VAERS result showed 970 people died after being given a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine shot. Of those deaths, 495 occurred following a Moderna shot, and 475 occurred following a Pfizer shot. Newsweek contacted Pfizer and Moderna for comment."
So, yes, Paul, there have been deaths associated with vaccines.
https://www.newsweek.com/covid-vacci...6-died-1574447
Perhaps they should do what the CDC did: examine all the medical reports, look at all the clinical records, and the death certificates...finding no covid deaths.
There have obviously been people that died after they had received the vaccine. No evidence to date that the vaccine caused the death.
Edit: I assume the CDC looked at US deaths, finding none attributable to the vaccine. I believe there was a case early on (maybe in England?) where someone died from anaphylactic shock immediately after receiving the vaccine. Apparently this is possible in a very small percentage of the population, as it occurs with other types of situations. Hence the CDC guidelines you'll note in the article that everyone wait 20-30 minutes after receiving a shot, and the medical personnel are ready to treat this unusual condition.
I'm pretty sure 100% of vaccine recipients are going to die.
I have a friend who went into anaphylactic shock after getting the first dose. Don’t remember if it was Pfizer or Moderna. He spent some time in the ICU recovering. His doctor strongly recommends he not get the second shot, saying it will likely kill him. So, he’s not getting it.
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Yeah that makes sense. My understanding people with severe allergies (not sure if this applies to your friend) to many things are most at risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf123
I had a pregnant employee get the pfizer who has a sort of allergic reaction, she went to the ER, was ok, I think just given benadryl. She waited until after she had the baby but did get the second shot.
At least the first shot wasn't a waste after all that for your friend, should have at least a good chunk of working vaccine in there after even just one dose.
Is this the level of risk you take on your trips to Vegas?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMuskies
You could sit in the lobby and watch them go by. “He’s gonna die. She’s gonna die. He’s gonna die...” That probably doesn’t pay off well, I’m guessing?
Yep. That’s his take on it, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’m not arguing. Only stating it’s not prudent to give away too much freedom for this long. Masks are fine if biz/land owners prefer it. Requiring medical treatment and proof thereof to work or travel by the gov’t is not a freedom worth handing over.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
Hah! You need to get over to the Degenerate Gambler thread quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMuskies
What about the No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service rule? Would No Mask, No Service be the exact same thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
I don’t see it as giving up a right to the government. I see it as using common sense and doing the right thing for the greater good. The government shouldn’t have to tell you to wear seat belts, but I don’t mind that they make that a rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
I agree but what you or I think has no bearing on the next person.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
Yes, masks the same. Vaccine different.Quote:
Originally Posted by 94GRAD
OK...I confess. I was in Dana's with no shoes and no shirt...and I got service.Quote:
Originally Posted by 94GRAD
(disclaimer: yes, it was more than 50 years ago)
Damned hippies! (says the guy who was at X more than 40 years ago)Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's worth noting that the FDA still hasn't actually approved the vaccine. I assume that will happen at some point, but businesses requiring it before the FDA elevates the vaccines from 'Emergency Use Authorization' to FDA-approved seems to be a bad idea.
PLEASE tell us you wore pants!Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
I agree that vaccines are tricky. You are telling people what they have to put into their body. Having said that, kids need vaccines to get into daycare and schools, and my dogs need to have them to get boarded. You gotta do what you gotta do for the greater good, I guess.