Covid-19

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Originally Posted by xavierj

I think that’s saying that in Italy they have the same resources as we do here and I don’t think they do but could be wrong. It may have more to do with they just don’t have the number of hospital beds and care that we have here, and that the healthcare system is overwhelmed, but I could be wrong. On top of that is that Italy is the oldest country in Europe and the median age is 10 years older than in the US. Most of the people dying in Italy are over 80 and probably have compromised immune systems.

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I’m pretty sure I’ve heard/read that they have more doctors and beds than we do per capita. Quality of care? No idea. In addition to being older, they have more smokers. There are a LOT of factors in this equation. And yes, density is a huge deal. Is it 60 million in an area the size of Michigan? That’s pretty tight, but so is NYC and San Francisco. Buckle up!

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Originally Posted by Masterofreality

Forget the media, all of it, who have a vested interest in keeping the hype (read borderline panic) going for awhile.

How much longer do we think that Americans will continue to cooperate with these onerous (for now appropriate) restrictions? Per the CDC this morning there have been 201 deaths in a country of 370 million. Let’s say over the next 10 days there are only 400 more. Number of cases are almost irrelevant because the vast majority are mild. Plus these numbers were reported by the CDC today:
Under investigation 14,561
Total cases 15,219
They are counting “under investigation” as part of the total cases. Does that strike anyone as hyperbole?
Anybody think that about that time, 10 days from now, people stop buying the hysteria and go back to normal activity?

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Nice post. We’ve seen the fear that’s been stroked. Initial reports were warranted (because we just didn’t know) and trying to due my part to curb the virus. Unfortunately, any positive news story is being completely squashed by the media. Obviously, not out of the woods, but I’m more optimistic than I was a week ago.

On a positive note, I’ve seen and heard stories on what makes this country strong and unique. Neighbor’s helping neighbors and people giving a hand to the small businesses.

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Originally Posted by xudash

Gut reaction: population density may be an issue as well.

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Of course it is. Thank you Dash for mentioning that, and lending some more sanity to the discussion.

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Originally Posted by xavierj

I think that’s saying that in Italy they have the same resources as we do here and I don’t think they do but could be wrong. It may have more to do with they just don’t have the number of hospital beds and care that we have here, and that the healthcare system is overwhelmed, but I could be wrong. On top of that is that Italy is the oldest country in Europe and the median age is 10 years older than in the US. Most of the people dying in Italy are over 80 and probably have compromised immune systems.

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One person's take I saw on Twitter. I don't know how accurate it all is but it makes sense.

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To Know Abt Italy:

- older population
- hit hardest in Milan, where there are direct ties to Wuhan, China
- Italy restricted China travel March 10 (Trump restricted China travel January 31)
- tight population
- greet each others w hugs &kisses
- socialized medicine
- smokers

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I guess only time will tell. I'm nervous that American obesity will cancel out the smoking problem in China and Italy. 620 deaths in Italy today. Probably will get to 1000 soon. So much for the flu.

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Originally Posted by SemajParlor

I guess only time will tell. I'm nervous that American obesity will cancel out the smoking problem in China and Italy. 620 deaths in Italy today. Probably will get to 1000 soon. So much for the flu.

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How many deaths in the rest of the world so far from the Coronavirus? The flu kills on average 300,000 to 600,000 per year worldwide. This current flu season in the US has killed 22,000 people and 144 were children younger than 18. Not down playing this current virus, just wondering.

1 Trillion.

Gardner emphasized Friday that an agreement among lawmakers on how much to send Americans had to be done quickly: "It can't take six months. It can't take a year. It's gotta happen soon. We do need to have immediate relief."

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Originally Posted by xavierj

I am willing to bet that in a few months the numbers will look very small as far as number of people who actually get sick and number of deaths from this,

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That is the literal goal of the measures being put in place.

If this all goes as well as it can the actions taken by DeWine and others will have looked like an overreaction. That will mean they did their jobs. Much better that than the alternative.

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Originally Posted by SemajParlor

Ugh, I hate those American liberals that shut down Italy and Spain.

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Ha, made me chuckle.

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Originally Posted by xavierj

I think that’s saying that in Italy they have the same resources as we do here and I don’t think they do but could be wrong. It may have more to do with they just don’t have the number of hospital beds and care that we have here, and that the healthcare system is overwhelmed, but I could be wrong. On top of that is that Italy is the oldest country in Europe and the median age is 10 years older than in the US. Most of the people dying in Italy are over 80 and probably have compromised immune systems.

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Italy has 3.2 hospital beds per 1,000 people. The US has 2.8.

China has 4.3, S. Korea has 12.3

The quality of care I can't speak to.

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

That is the literal goal of the measures being put in place.

If this all goes as well as it can the actions taken by DeWine and others will have looked like an overreaction. That will mean they did their jobs. Much better that than the alternative.

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Goddamn right.

On another note, I've seen projections of 2,000,000 dead in Brazil. Apparently they're doing nothing so far.

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Originally Posted by smileyy

Goddamn right.

On another note, I've seen projections of 2,000,000 dead in Brazil. Apparently they're doing nothing so far.

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They have 11 deaths since the first reported case almost a month ago and 970 total cases now. The US has 237 deaths in that same time span. Both country’s basically had the first case reported at the same time. I have no idea what Brazil is or isn’t doing, but are you saying they will end up with 2,000,000 dead because they are not locking down?

Yes, if they don't lock down. Let me see if I can find a source.

When Coronavirus reaches Syrian refugees it's going to be bad.

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

That is the literal goal of the measures being put in place.

If this all goes as well as it can the actions taken by DeWine and others will have looked like an overreaction. That will mean they did their jobs. Much better that than the alternative.

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When Ohio's economy is in the shitter and everyone is unemployed, I guarantee everyone's approval of Dewine will be vastly different.

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Originally Posted by xavierj

They have 11 deaths since the first reported case almost a month ago and 970 total cases now. The US has 237 deaths in that same time span. Both country’s basically had the first case reported at the same time. I have no idea what Brazil is or isn’t doing, but are you saying they will end up with 2,000,000 dead because they are not locking down?

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Actually, they have been moving their government from a democratic socialism version government to more democracy electing a “far right” President (moderate to right in American terms). Easy target.

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Originally Posted by JTG

Yes I am staying home for the most part. Do I go to the grocery? yes, the drug store, yes, the gas station yes. I'm pretty familiar with germs and their transmission, I volunteer at a childrens hospital twice a week. I have used sanitizer probably 50 times a day at the hospital. Will the virus affect a small % of the population ? Yes. Maybe 1%.The damage will be a ruined economy and that will affect all 330,000,000 Americans. Like someone else pointed out, after a few months of this lunacy, people will say screw it, and go back to what ever is left to go back to. All because the whiney, everyone gets a trophy, I'm afraid of my shadow segment of the population got their hands on the wheel and drove our economy off a cliff. Currently .001% of the pop is affected, not dead, affected.

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Thank you for an honest response.. I hope you are right and not all the infectious disease/public health doctors.

Perhaps the data will shed some light on the continued growth and explosion of the virus and its death rate across the world:

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...us-death-toll/

I just pray I don’t bring this home to my family and in particular my 9 year-old daughter. She has asthma and has been hospitalized twice in the last couple years when exposed to viral illnesses. This is a disease that could cause her I significant problems or complications. I could also cause me a lot of problems Due to my underlying asthma as well. I feel that I have a moral and ethical obligation to get my cancer patients and taken care of.. Also if I shut things down at my office not only will my patients suffer, but all my staff would have a hard time surviving and taking care of their own families. Otherwise, there is no way in hell I would be leaving my home and taking any chances with something like this. I will be quarantining myself in my own home by entering and staying on the lower walk out basement level. My wife and kids are staying away from me upstairs. That sucks because I would like to see my wife and kids when this is going on. I know many doctors that are Sectioning off parts of their home or renting a Air BNB near their offices or hospitals while they take care of these patients. Even if this virus does not kill you, there is growing evidence that it causes permanent lifelong damage to peoples lungs who become infected. That seems to be as high as 15 to 20% of infections and includes young people as well. The damage a virus can cause is not only in the mortality rate. Also, keep in mind that people in Italy are dying at a much higher right now from heart attacks and strokes and other issues because their hospital systems are overwhelmed with the virus. So the death toll from the virus is significantly much higher than the number is reflected in the data because other people are dying due to inability to access appropriate care.

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Originally Posted by kmcrawfo

Perhaps the data will shed some light on the continued growth and explosion of the virus and its death rate across the world:

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...us-death-toll/

I just pray I don’t bring this home to my family and in particular my 9 year-old daughter. She has asthma and has been hospitalized twice in the last couple years when exposed to viral illnesses. This is a disease that could cause her I significant problems or complications. I could also cause me a lot of problems Due to my underlying asthma as well. I feel that I have a moral and ethical obligation to get my cancer patients and taken care of.. Also if I shut things down at my office not only will my patients suffer, but all my staff would have a hard time surviving and taking care of their own families. Otherwise, there is no way in hell I would be leaving my home and taking any chances with something like this. I will be quarantining myself in my own home by entering and staying on the lower walk out basement level. My wife and kids are staying away from me upstairs. That sucks because I would like to see my wife and kids when this is going on. I know many doctors that are Sectioning off parts of their home or renting a Air BNB near their offices or hospitals while they take care of these patients. Even if this virus does not kill you, there is growing evidence that it causes permanent lifelong damage to peoples lungs who become infected. That seems to be as high as 15 to 20% of infections and includes young people as well. The damage a virus can cause is not only in the mortality rate. Also, keep in mind that people in Italy are dying at a much higher right now from heart attacks and strokes and other issues because their hospital systems are overwhelmed with the virus. So the death toll from the virus is significantly much higher than the number is reflected in the data because other people are dying due to inability to access appropriate care.

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Prayers for you, Doctor.

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Originally Posted by kmcrawfo

Perhaps the data will shed some light on the continued growth and explosion of the virus and its death rate across the world:

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...us-death-toll/

I just pray I don’t bring this home to my family and in particular my 9 year-old daughter. She has asthma and has been hospitalized twice in the last couple years when exposed to viral illnesses. This is a disease that could cause her I significant problems or complications. I could also cause me a lot of problems Due to my underlying asthma as well. I feel that I have a moral and ethical obligation to get my cancer patients and taken care of.. Also if I shut things down at my office not only will my patients suffer, but all my staff would have a hard time surviving and taking care of their own families. Otherwise, there is no way in hell I would be leaving my home and taking any chances with something like this. I will be quarantining myself in my own home by entering and staying on the lower walk out basement level. My wife and kids are staying away from me upstairs. That sucks because I would like to see my wife and kids when this is going on. I know many doctors that are Sectioning off parts of their home or renting a Air BNB near their offices or hospitals while they take care of these patients. Even if this virus does not kill you, there is growing evidence that it causes permanent lifelong damage to peoples lungs who become infected. That seems to be as high as 15 to 20% of infections and includes young people as well. The damage a virus can cause is not only in the mortality rate. Also, keep in mind that people in Italy are dying at a much higher right now from heart attacks and strokes and other issues because their hospital systems are overwhelmed with the virus. So the death toll from the virus is significantly much higher than the number is reflected in the data because other people are dying due to inability to access appropriate care.

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I'll be praying for you, and it's physicians like you who make me happy I chose this route, absolute brutal hell for the most part, but you see self-less, altruistic humans like you, the work you're doing sacrificing so much, and it's truly inspiring. Stay safe out there.

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Originally Posted by Juice

When Ohio's economy is in the shitter and everyone is unemployed, I guarantee everyone's approval of Dewine will be vastly different.

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Thank god approval rating doesn’t seem to be his goal during this pandemic!

If we don’t over react now, the alternative is to “let things play out” and then what?

I know the economy is facing some tough times, and loss of work will affect most every family in the nation.

But if we don’t take drastic measures, and things blow up, then we could be asking why we didn’t do more. The results of the later approach endangers lives far more than loss of income. People who continue to gather in spite of the warnings and mandates are naive and dangerous.

Seems for the most part that everyone is doing their part when it comes to social distancing.

Called my mom to make sure she was okay. She said that she wished that this would have come out when I was 13-14 years old. She could have to me to clean my room because of Covid19 and said it wasn't her fault it was the government and and I needed to do my part help the country. Maybe that would have worked.

My dad, who doesn't drink, said that he's getting drunk from all of the alcohol that's in the hand sanitizer that he's putting on.

My oldest boy said that he's got this. He can play X-Box and stay in his room. He's been preparing for this his entire teenage years.

My daughters, college and older, are back to making videos and 2000 piece puzzles.

My youngest boy(Peace Corps) just got back to the US from Senegal. Fly's into CVG today. Senegal is safer than the US and most other countries. He will quarantine with my wife as my daughters and myself will go to my brother in laws home.

Fun times.

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Originally Posted by nuts4xu

If we don’t over react now, the alternative is to “let things play out” and then what?

I know the economy is facing some tough times, and loss of work will affect most every family in the nation.

But if we don’t take drastic measures, and things blow up, then we could be asking why we didn’t do more. The results of the later approach endangers lives far more than loss of income. People who continue to gather in spite of the warnings and mandates are naive and dangerous.

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This is kind of my thoughts about the whole thing to be honest, the economy will get trashed, but that can be built back up. We can't bring back people who lose their lives during this, and if I were to trade, I'd trade keeping people alive.

The problem is that trashing the economy is also going to kill people. It's going to be a bad deal.

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Originally Posted by GoMuskies

The problem is that trashing the economy is also going to kill people. It's going to be a bad deal.

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This is true. I also expect crime to really surge soon. Most people still received a check this week. Next week a lot of people won’t. That won’t be pretty.

3 missed meals from a revolution and all that

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Originally Posted by xavierj

This is true. I also expect crime to really surge soon. Most people still received a check this week. Next week a lot of people won’t. That won’t be pretty.

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A lot of "guests" of the Hamilton County Justice Center were released this week with low/no bonds this week with pending charges that under normal circumstances would never allow them to see the light of day (depending on the outcome of their cases).

Ohio 3/21 update:
247 confirmed cases
33 counties
58 hospitalizations
3 deaths
8 Hamilton County
16 Butler county
2 Warren County
2 Claremont County

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

Ohio 3/21 update:
247 confirmed cases
33 counties
58 hospitalizations
3 deaths
8 Hamilton County
16 Butler county
2 Warren County
2 Claremont County

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Not to be a smart ass, but in the last two weeks of reporting, by comparison, there have been 1,493 cases of “normal” flu.
That is 6 times the number of cases of Covid, for their entire reporting period, whatever that is.
Also, Adult flu deaths are not reported to ODH. However, to date, Ohio has reported 7,898 total influenza-associated hospitalizations for the 2019-2020 season.
No data on deaths in the state, but I would guess more than 3 in that period. In fact in Cuyahoga County, which does report deaths, there have been 16 during the season, just in this county alone.
And yet, the economy would never be shut down for that. And wasn’t for H1N1.
And, again, not saying that we should not be taking precautions, but when does this reach a over- hysteria stage?

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

Ohio 3/21 update:
247 confirmed cases
33 counties
58 hospitalizations
3 deaths
8 Hamilton County
16 Butler county
2 Warren County
2 Claremont County

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It is important to note that Ohio's testing has essentially stopped due to lack of available tests. The only people being tested right now are if you are showing symptoms and are in the hospital. It will be interesting to see if there is a jump once we ramp back up testing.

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Originally Posted by STL_XUfan

It is important to note that Ohio's testing has essentially stopped due to lack of available tests. The only people being tested right now are if you are showing symptoms and are in the hospital. It will be interesting to see if there is a jump once we ramp back up testing.

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Oh for sure. That isn’t even close to the actual number of cases. Testing kits are still a huge problem.

Dr. Acton also said today that there are a number of deaths that are awaiting confirmation of COVID-19 that they suspect but can’t report at this time.

That number of cases, despite lack of testing, is jumping by bigger and bigger numbers everyday.

COVID-19 is not the flu... I understand the comparisons (Contagious respiratory disease with some overlapping symptoms) but it is apples and oranges from a disease state.

The flu does not act anything like this:
https://youtu.be/_J60fQr0GWo

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Originally Posted by STL_XUfan

It is important to note that Ohio's testing has essentially stopped due to lack of available tests. The only people being tested right now are if you are showing symptoms and are in the hospital. It will be interesting to see if there is a jump once we ramp back up testing.

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They’ve expanded it to outpatients with high risk factors too but your point remains, it is extremely slow and the number of people that have it that aren’t and won’t be tested is very very high.

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

COVID-19 is not the flu... I understand the comparisons (Contagious respiratory disease with some overlapping symptoms) but it is apples and oranges from a disease state.

The flu does not act anything like this:
https://youtu.be/_J60fQr0GWo

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I realize this, but..
The fact remains that there has not ever been such drastic measures taken before..even for a more common disease that has been more prevalent and deadly.

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Originally Posted by Masterofreality

I realize this, but..
The fact remains that there has not ever been such drastic measures taken before..even for a more common disease that has been more prevalent and deadly.

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Except it’s not as deadly not has the disaster potential as this does. If everyone that got the flu happened to be infected within a few weeks it would be a big problem, but the season spreads over months. The burden of this to hospital systems far exceeds the flu.

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

COVID-19 is not the flu... I understand the comparisons (Contagious respiratory disease with some overlapping symptoms) but it is apples and oranges from a disease state.

The flu does not act anything like this:
https://youtu.be/_J60fQr0GWo

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Wow! Please be sure to tell the family members that of loved ones who died of the flu that it's apples and oranges.

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Originally Posted by MADXSTER

Wow! Please be sure to tell the family members that of loved ones who died of the flu that it's apples and oranges.

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Both can be bad for different reasons and require different measures to contain. Someone dying from the flu is not more or less tragic than COVID-19 and I have not said nor inferred otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

Except it’s not as deadly not has the disaster potential as this does. If everyone that got the flu happened to be infected within a few weeks it would be a big problem, but the season spreads over months. The burden of this to hospital systems far exceeds the flu.

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As of right now, IMO we are doing the right thing to mediate this disease while we can answer the too much or too little at a later date. Of course, governmental response (state and fed) will and should be questioned after.

However, did we under estimate, learn or properly prepare (shut down stuff - boy talk about economic disaster after the Great Recession) during the Swine virus of 2009 (didn’t use the word flu and I’m sure you know why)? Don’t want to speak for MOR, but think that’s where he was somewhat going. Of course, this will be debated moving forward, but hopefully this will be delayed until we see a limited amount of lives lost while keeping our medical community safe. H1N1 overloaded our hospital system and I hope and pray this disease will not.

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Originally Posted by GoMuskies

The problem is that trashing the economy is also going to kill people. It's going to be a bad deal.

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Yeah, I guess you're right, I didn't think of it like that either. It's a confusing time for everyone involved, there's really no ideal good outcome out of any of this, either way there's going to be some suffering that has to take place.

Noteggs (nice handle) it is already overwhelming hospitals. ICUs are filling up and treatment can last two weeks