Coach: You just won 100-0 - Now You're Fired!

[coasterville95]

Just noticed this in the Enquirer:

The coach of the girls high school basketball team that notched an improbable 100-0 victory was dismissed for shamelssly running up the score. School administration thought "It's just not very Christian to blow out and totally humiliate an opponent like that!" The school even went so far as to publicly apologize for such behavior.

The coach on the other hand said basically "Ya hired me to coach girls basketball, well we played girls basketball according to the rules in place!" and totally diasgrees with the dismisal.

There is no mercy rule or provision for just playing with a running clock once the score gets out of hand, but it seems state athletic associations are siding with the school, claiming its a violation of the Golden Rule.

The score was 59-0 as the teams went to the locker rooms at halftime.

Intersting to note the article points out the hapless school that got shutout is a tiny school, with only 20 girls in the whole school, of which 8 are on the basketball team, and that the school specializes in special education with small class sizes. Why did they have to bring that into the picture, now I feel double bad for them!

Article link: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090126/SPT/301260032/1055/NEWS

Admit it: Who here wouldn't feel just a little bit bad if we managed to ring up a 100-0 victory on either UC or UD?

[BBC 08]

Is it wrong that I'm siding with the coach from the winning school on this one?

[American X]

No. Never.

This coach is 100% in the right and the administration is 100% in the wrong.

If you do not like it, score more points, stop them from scoring points, or change the rules of the game. If you cannot compete, do not field a team.

[gladdenguy]

No its not wrong. Just goes to show you girls high school basketball sucks.

[danaandvictory]

This coach is 100% in the right and the administration is 100% in the wrong.

Disagree. There's something wrong with a coach who has his team pressing and hoisting up threes up 60 points in the fourth quarter against a school for kids with special needs. I mean, that takes a seriously messed up moral compass.

Speaking only for myself, I find the coach's behavior repulsive, and fully understand why the administration of a school ostensibly founded on Christian principles would want to disassociate themselves from him immediately.

As for what the coach should have done, there's any number of things. Sit in a zone. Run the stall. Ask the refs to run the clock during stoppages or stop the game. There's no excuse for purposely humiliating an opposing team at that level.

[coasterville95]

Disagree. There's something wrong with a coach who has his team pressing and hoisting up threes up 60 points in the fourth quarter against a school for kids with special needs. I mean, that takes a seriously fucked up moral compass.

Hate to make it sound worse to you cheese, but the HALFTIME score was 59-0 that means it was probably an even wider spread when the 4th quarter rolled around.

But yeah, the twist about the victim being a special needs school does factor into how this all feels, I think.

I know its SPORTS and not summer camp, but when up 59-0 at half, it might just be time to tell your squad "Listen I know this is going to sound messed up, but until the score gets within 20, just act like you are playing defense, let them get a few feel good baskets in. Miss on purpose. Here is a game film of Traffic Cone from UD to let you see what I mean. If they do happen to go J Mac on us, unlikely, I'll call a time out and then its game on again"

[danaandvictory]

Hate to make it sound worse to you cheese, but the HALFTIME score was 59-0 that means it was probably an even wider spread when the 4th quarter rolled around.

This is what pissed me off:


A parent who attended the game said that Covenant continued to make 3-pointers — even in the fourth quarter. She praised the Covenant players but said spectators and an assistant coach were cheering wildly as their team edged closer to 100 points.

"I think the bad judgment was in the full-court press and the 3-point shots," said Renee Peloza, whose daughter plays for Dallas Academy. "At some point, they should have backed off."

[XU 87]

I know its SPORTS and not summer camp, but when up 59-0 at half, it might just be time to tell your squad "Listen I know this is going to sound messed up, but until the score gets within 20, just act like you are playing defense, let them get a few feel good baskets in. Miss on purpose. Here is a game film of Traffic Cone from UD to let you see what I mean. If they do happen to go J Mac on us, unlikely, I'll call a time out and then its game on again"

I don't necessarily disagree with that. On the other hand, if you are teaching your team to always hustle, to always play hard no matter what the score, and to always play tough defense, I'm not sure that you want to stay, "Well, in this case, stop playing hard."

I don't know the specifics of the game. If the team was pressing and fast breaking and running up the score, that's one thing. But if they are just playing the game, then, arguably, that's another.

I note in passing that the team scored 59 points in the first half and only 41 in the second. So it seems they slowed things down a tad.

[drudy23]

Shouldn't have been pressing...no way. I have no issues with the 3 point shots...you still have to MAKE them.

As for the defensive end, I'd have a hard time telling my kids to LET them score.

If I was a kid on the losing team, I would be more offended if someone LET me score.

[DC Muskie]

I was on an AAU team in 8th that beat another team 124-23.

It.

Was.

Awesome.

Running up and down the court telling them Jesus ain't stopping us!

Seriously, this whole thing was very unfortunate. It seems like it could have been prevented.

[danaandvictory]

Running up and down the court telling them Jesus ain't stopping us!

I played in the CHCA summer league a few times. My team lost one particular game 90-31, with Eugene Land scoring at least 45 points including an alley oop dunk.

I remember the game because I pulled a Redford, hitting two threes in the last minute to get the margin below 50. We literally looked like Cuba playing the original Dream Team.

[PM Thor]

cheese I was actually on the other side of a game like that, but it was peewee football.
We ended up winning 84-6.

I was easily the smallest kid on our team, but I played nose tackle for some reason. In the last seconds the coach decided it would be a good idea to put me in as halfback after I had played for the entire half at my original position. First play they actually gave me the ball and I proceeded to fumble the ball, pick it up, flail around in the backfield for awhile, and then run for a 45 yard touchdown at the end of the game. My teammates mobbed me, but my coach was pissed. He said something to the extent of "Why, why would you do that?". It was the highlight of my peewee career.

I HATE dayton.

[XUglow]

First off, the coach was not fired for winning 100 to 0. The coach was fired for taking his school to task in the Dallas papers. He stronly disagreed with the school board's stance on the score of the game. That's a career-limiting move in any business.

As for the game, the coach wanted 100 and pulled all of the stops until he got it. They hit 100-0 with 4+ minutes to play and then magically allowed the score to go 0-0 for the remainder of the game. That certainly proves that the coach doesn't ask his players to go all out all of the time. It proves that the coach knows how to shut it down when he wants. In my opinion, it also shows that the coach knew that the score was out of balance.

The private school league needs to institute some mercy rules. Let the clock run in these situations and by all means prohibit pressing at a particular point. I imagine that they didn't feel mercy rules were necessary before now, but unfortunately, mercy isn't a virtue shared by all parties in athletic endeavors.

[Mrs. Garrett]

If the girls running up the score in the second half were reserves that don't see a lot of action then I have no problem with what happened. I mean you can't put someone in who hasn't scored all season long and tell them not to try.

[Juice]

On PTI, Wilbon said they only scored 12 points in the 4th quarter.

[xuwin]

Disagree. There's something wrong with a coach who has his team pressing and hoisting up threes up 60 points in the fourth quarter against a school for kids with special needs. I mean, that takes a seriously messed up moral compass.

Speaking only for myself, I find the coach's behavior repulsive, and fully understand why the administration of a school ostensibly founded on Christian principles would want to disassociate themselves from him immediately.

As for what the coach should have done, there's any number of things. Sit in a zone. Run the stall. Ask the refs to run the clock during stoppages or stop the game. There's no excuse for purposely humiliating an opposing team at that level.

These are kids with dyslexia and ADD which are not physically debilitating problems. The accusation is very deceptive. This school should not be scheduling teams like that if they cannot compete with them. It's rediculous to put that team on a guilt trip and fire the coach if he worked within the rules of his job.

[Juice]

These are kids with dyslexia and ADD which are not physically debilitating problems. The accusation is very deceptive.

Hell, Huggins recruited kids dumber than these girls and he had some decent teams.

[Mark 3 Pointer]

A few thoughts and questions on this:

If the team was that bad... why did they even play the game?

Why aren't the coaches and the administration of the "special needs" school being blamed for any of this when they put these kids in the position to be humiliated in the first place?

If the coach of the good school played his starters the entire game... he's a real asshole.

As for the coach and team celebrating when they hit 100. Why the hell shouldn't they? How many times have you seen a high school girls basketball team score that many points?

Would Obama approve of this? It's a very capitalist behavior running the score up on someone. Maybe they should have just givin them 30 or 40 of their points and they would have still won by 40 or so... Then everyone would be happy!!!!

I would be interested to see all the facts before rushing to any judgement... sounds to me that this guy might end up taking the school to court.

[D-West & PO-Z]

No. Never.

This coach is 100% in the right and the administration is 100% in the wrong.

If you do not like it, score more points, stop them from scoring points, or change the rules of the game. If you cannot compete, do not field a team.

Thats all good and fine for college and the pros but this is girls high school basketball and the coach had his 1st teamers in in the second half even into the 4th quarter!!!!! Shooting 3's no less. And assistants on the team were cheering for the team to get to 100!!!! Absurd. The coach had to go, no doubt.

[D-West & PO-Z]

If the girls running up the score in the second half were reserves that don't see a lot of action then I have no problem with what happened. I mean you can't put someone in who hasn't scored all season long and tell them not to try.

Same here but it was reported that the starters were in in the 4th quarter.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I also agree that the losing team should have never scheduled a team this good and it was irresponsible for the coach to do so. Dont put your kids in that situation to begin with. However there is still no excuse for the opposing coach.

[danaandvictory]

These are kids with dyslexia and ADD which are not physically debilitating problems. The accusation is very deceptive. This school should not be scheduling teams like that if they cannot compete with them. It's rediculous to put that team on a guilt trip and fire the coach if he worked within the rules of his job.

This piece of shit coach actively encouraged his players to run up the score against a clearly overmatched opponent, instituting a full court press up 85 points. Then, when the school registered an apology, he nailed himself to the cross, saying his kids played with integrity. The hell with that asshole, he got what he deserved.

[danaandvictory]

I also agree that the losing team should have never scheduled a team this good and it was irresponsible for the coach to do so. Dont put your kids in that situation to begin with. However there is still no excuse for the opposing coach.

Exactly. The school that got crushed here obviously needs to reassess who it schedules and, frankly, whether it ought to field a varsity team in the first place. Still no excuse.
.

[PM Thor]

I did see a story about the losing team on ABC (I think). They were very impressive actually, didn't compain at all, said they would never quit, that kind of stuff. Meanwhile in the video they didn't make a single shot, even in a staged practice layup drill.

I HATE dayton.

[D-West & PO-Z]

This piece of shit coach actively encouraged his players to run up the score against a clearly overmatched opponent, instituting a full court press up 85 points. Then, when the school registered an apology, he nailed himself to the cross, saying his kids played with integrity. The hell with that asshole, he got what he deserved.

Yeah he even said something to the affect that his morals wouldnt allow him to be ashamed of this or run up the score. How did he not run up the score? What a jackass.

[Cheesehead]

It was wrong to do what they did and I'm a very competitive person who has gotten technicals as a basketball coach. I'm surprised by those who think otherwise. At some point, common sense should come into play and these were Christian schools. So, there's that whole element and the concept of good sportsmanship/fairplay etc.,

There's no reason to press like that or jack up 3-pointers. Hell, in 6th grade, I start pulling our starters if we get up by 12-15 points. We are not allowed to press if the lead is 15 or more. Plus, winning like that doesn't really help your team at all. The players usually start goofing around and pick up bad habits. Again, I say as as a guy who doesn't not like to lose at all but there's a right and wrong way to coach. Techincally, this coach may have not done anything wrong but he certainly could have done things differently.

[kbxu991]

Its remarkable that even a single person on this board "needs more facts" or "blames the needs school" etc. Absolutely no excuse for that score. PATENTLY RIDICULOUS!!! I will no longer be surprised what appears on this board----this thread speaks volumes!!!

[American X]

these were Christian schools

What if it was a Talmud Torah versus a Madrassa? Would that changes things?

The greater missed lesson I see is perhaps the parents and administrators should not have put these students in that position. Perhaps they should not be fielding a team if they are that incapable or at least play competition that is on their level.

I have not heard an explanation of why this was specifically wrong except it was 'not nice.'

[Frambo]

I've been fortunate to coach boys and girls team (7-12) for over 30 years. All of my teams press and run the floor. When we get up by 15-20 points, the press comes off - if they cut into the lead, it goes back on. If the score gets out of hand, we play zone or man with one foot in the paint and I have on occassion instituted an 8 pass rule with nothing but a layup being acceptable. Pressing and jacking 3's when up by over 50 is totally unacceptable. The coach was a part of the local youth basketball organization (AAU?), and not a teacher....that's their problem. Not indicting all non-teacher coaches!

[XUglow]

As for the coach and team celebrating when they hit 100. Why the hell shouldn't they? How many times have you seen a high school girls basketball team score that many points?


Why the hell shouldn't they? I'll take a crack at this one.

awareness
caring
charity
compassion
consideration
empathy
fairness
friendliness
hospitality
integrity
justice
kindness
mercy
prudence
respectfulness
responsibility
restraint
sympathy
unselfishness

These are virtues, and the host school administrators didn't feel likes they should be checked at the door. The school board's position is that you should go someplace else if you think beating someone 100-0 is OK.

If you put the word "lack of" in front of any of these words, you can get a short description of the 100-0 beat down. There are times where going for 100 isn't appropriate. This was one of them.

[Frambo]

I've always felt that going for a school record, 100 points, etc., was only valid when in a competitive situtaion. A few years ago, a team I was helping with lost at Mason 97-92 (Miami's Carl Richburg was at Mason then). Mason's students would have gone nuts if they hit a 3 to hit 100.....and it would have been deserved, because we were still playing hard, trying to get the win. It IS wrong for the coach to go for 100 in this situation.

[Cheesehead]

What if it was a Talmud Torah versus a Madrassa? Would that changes things?

The greater missed lesson I see is perhaps the parents and administrators should not have put these students in that position. Perhaps they should not be fielding a team if they are that incapable or at least play competition that is on their level.

I have not heard an explanation of why this was specifically wrong except it was 'not nice.'

You're wrong on this. The fact is they were put in this position. The fact is that the coach did not need to do it in the way that they did. You could tell your team make 10 passes before they shoot, etc., take off the press, etc., don't shoot three's. It's ridiculous. No team needs to win by 100!!!!!!!!!!!! It is more than about being "nice". I would be ashamed if I was part of that coaching staff. Frambo is absolutely right on this one. You guys are amazing me by defending this behavior.

[American X]

That may all hold true, but I disagree that adds up to firing the coach, unless his job description was specifically to coach basketball, be considerate of the other teams feelings, and uphold this list of virtues.

This annoys me because he would not have been fired if the story had not hit the media.

[Mark 3 Pointer]

You're wrong on this. The fact is they were put in this position. The fact is that the coach did not need to do it in the way that they did. You could tell your team make 10 passes before they shoot, etc., take off the press, etc., don't shoot three's. It's ridiculous. No team needs to win by 100!!!!!!!!!!!! It is more than about being "nice". I would be ashamed if I was part of that coaching staff. Frambo is absolutely right on this one. You guys are amazing me by defending this behavior.


I'm not defending him... however, I find it even more un-christian to judge someone without all of the facts. It's one thing if the team wins the game 100-0 and is relentless in the manner they do it (i.e. leaving the starters in the entire game); however, it is another if the team attempts to soften their style and still ends up scoring. Would it be more humiliating for the "special needs" team to give up or lose 100-0?

If I watched this game and determined that the coach was out of line and knew all of the facts... then yes I would consider him an asshole! However, I didn't see the game... I didn't see all of the facts. Therefore I cannot judge this coach.

It is a fact that this team scored 88 point in the first three quarters scored only 12 in the final quarter. Assuming these high schools play 10 minute quarters thats about one basket every 2 minutes in the fourth quarter! Seems like they were letting up to me.

Facts we know:
1) The final was 100-0
2) The team and assistant coach celebrated when they hit 100 points
3) The opposing team was a "special needs" school
4) At least one parent from the opposing team was upset by the coach of the good teams behavior.

Facts we don't know:
1) Did the winning coach attempt to soften up his style?
2) Did the coach of the losing team ask for mercy?
3) Did the coach of the winning team offer the losing coach mercy?
4) Where the girls on the losing team sitting on the ground and uninterested in even being at the game? In other words was the opposing coach in control of his team at all?
5) Why was this game even scheduled? Who scheduled it?
6) Why isn't the coach and athletic director of the losing team being asked any difficult question? Why did you put these girls in this position?

Part of our problem in America is that we assume that the party at a disadvantage is always the victim in cases like this (in this instance the winning coach was probably an asshole, however, this case illustrated the point i'm trying to make). We never stop look at the entire situation and go well what else could have caused this.

Basically, I simply encourage you all not to judge someone or something without knowing all of the facts.

[MADXSTER]

You make good points Mark, however the score in itself does throw out some serious red flags.

[BBC 08]

Good post, Mark but you need to edit the special needs portion of it. You make it seem like the winning team played against a school designed for mentally handicapped students when in reality it was a school for students with learning disabilities such as ADD and dyslexia.

[MADXSTER]

Good post, Mark but you need to edit the special needs portion of it. You make it seem like the winning team played against a school designed for mentally handicapped students when in reality it was a school for students with learning disabilities such as ADD and dyslexia.

Maybe they were shooting at the wrong basket.

[IVANHOE]

i have no issue with the coach or the team that won.

my issue goes to the AD of the school that has 20 kids and 8 of them on the team. what is this AD thinking when scheduling this game? the other team is clearly superior. maybe next time the AD will schedule games equal to their own caliber.

and the other thing, why is a school with 20 girls even allwowed to have abasketball team? shouldnt they just own up and say "hey look we have 20 people at our school do we really need a basketball team?"

to even dress a team at this school shows the AD has no idea. this AD should be fired. not the other coach.

[Cheesehead]

I don't think the coach should have been fired. I think all parties, the coach and both AD's should all get written & verbal reprimands. I would agree that the AD's are partly responsible.

[D-West & PO-Z]

It is my understanding that the coach was not fired for the game itself but for speaking out against the school saying he completely disagreed with their stance on the situation and that he didnt do anything wrong. Like someone else said earlier, seems like a quick way to get fired from any job.

[XUglow]

I was given the short summary today by a friend from Dallas.

(DA - Dallas Academy, CS - Covenant School)

1) There is no mercy rule in TX, but the clock can run if both coaches agree. The DA coach asked the refs if they would run the clock in the second half. The refs asked the CS coaches, and they said no.
2) There was a full court press until the score was 25-0. That press was dropped off in favor of a 3/4 court press and a half court trap. The full court press was resumed in the 4th quarter until CS hit 100. They play 8 min quarters. CS hit 100 with 4+ minutes to go and held the ball the final 4 minutes to preserve the shutout.
3) There are only 8 girls on the CS team. Starters were going to be in the game at all times.
4) CS parents asked the coach during the game to call off the dogs. He told them to let him coach the game.
5) The parents met the CS coach and headmaster the next day with a list of things they wanted out of the basketball program. One request was that their girls no longer be involved in "humiliating" an opponent. At that time, a plan of action was put in place in case the situation ever popped up again.
6) At this point, the national press picked up on the story. CS was inundated with phone calls and letters. The CS girls, feeling they were being made out to be the bad guys, met with school officials and asked that an official apology be sent to DA. The CS board met on the issue and decided to issue the apology AND ask for the forfeit. At this point, the matter was closed at CS.
7) The coach decides to open it back up by sending long emails to the newspapers defending his actions, chastizing the school for offering the forfeit, and saying that rules should be put in place to make sure something like this pounding does not occur in the future.
8) The school calls the coach in to tell him that the matter has been settled and for him to stop defending his actions. No one is sure what is said at the meeting, but the coach's contract was terminated by the time the meeting ended.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Pretty much sums the fact that I already had come to conclude, the coach is a douche.

[Mark 3 Pointer]

I was given the short summary today by a friend from Dallas.

(DA - Dallas Academy, CS - Covenant School)

1) There is no mercy rule in TX, but the clock can run if both coaches agree. The DA coach asked the refs if they would run the clock in the second half. The refs asked the CS coaches, and they said no.
2) There was a full court press until the score was 25-0. That press was dropped off in favor of a 3/4 court press and a half court trap. The full court press was resumed in the 4th quarter until CS hit 100. They play 8 min quarters. CS hit 100 with 4+ minutes to go and held the ball the final 4 minutes to preserve the shutout.
3) There are only 8 girls on the CS team. Starters were going to be in the game at all times.
4) CS parents asked the coach during the game to call off the dogs. He told them to let him coach the game.
5) The parents met the CS coach and headmaster the next day with a list of things they wanted out of the basketball program. One request was that their girls no longer be involved in "humiliating" an opponent. At that time, a plan of action was put in place in case the situation ever popped up again.
6) At this point, the national press picked up on the story. CS was inundated with phone calls and letters. The CS girls, feeling they were being made out to be the bad guys, met with school officials and asked that an official apology be sent to DA. The CS board met on the issue and decided to issue the apology AND ask for the forfeit. At this point, the matter was closed at CS.
7) The coach decides to open it back up by sending long emails to the newspapers defending his actions, chastizing the school for offering the forfeit, and saying that rules should be put in place to make sure something like this pounding does not occur in the future.
8) The school calls the coach in to tell him that the matter has been settled and for him to stop defending his actions. No one is sure what is said at the meeting, but the coach's contract was terminated by the time the meeting ended.

Thanks for the facts. This guy is an asshole!

[Cheesehead]

I concur that he's both a douche and an asshole.

[Kahns Krazy]

I agree that he is a total douchebag, and could have handled things much differently, but I still disagree that the solution is to fire him, expecially since the matter was dealt with privately before the story hit the media.

The school didn't fire him because of the game. They fired him because of the media exposure. That, in my mind, is at least as big of a travesty as the game itself.

[D-West & PO-Z]

No Kahns. They fired him because after the issue was resolved and an apology made by the school he spoke out against the school and said he totally disagreed and did nothing wrong and he has nothing to be sorry for. If they guy would have kept his mouth shut he wouldnt be gone. What an idiot.

[Cheesehead]

I think we can all agree the guy is an idiot.

[DC Muskie]

The school didn't fire him because of the game. They fired him because of the media exposure. That, in my mind, is at least as big of a travesty as the game itself.

This entire affair is disappointing. Especially the idea of media pressure forcing the school to fire him.

Glow, great updates and if that were the case and I was the father of one of the girls, I would have pulled her off the court myself. Maybe that's not the right thing to do, but it's the first thing to pop into my mind.

Also, if Glow's account is accurate, I would have canned the coach before he left the court.

I'm all for fair play, but pressing and trapping, and holding the ball is beyond the pale.

[XUglow]

Also, if Glow's account is accurate, I would have canned the coach before he left the court.

I'm all for fair play, but pressing and trapping, and holding the ball is beyond the pale.

DC, I think it is fairly accurate. Yesterday, the coach tossed the girls under the bus by saying that he was just doing what they wanted to do which was make the score exactly 100-0. That is why they were only shooting 3's after having 88 at the end of 3 periods. That's rich. As a former teacher and coach, I would just ask him, "Who is the adult here?" If a teacher/coach only does what the kids want, he/she wouldn't last a week without being fired.

An addendum: TX is going to set a mercy limit in basketball at 45 points. I don't know if that will be in effect immediately or starting next year.

[DC Muskie]

DC, I think it is fairly accurate. Yesterday, the coach tossed the girls under the bus by saying that he was just doing what they wanted to do which was make the score exactly 100-0.

Are you kidding me? Does this guy know he most likely will never get another job again? Like ever?

[XU-PA]

Guy re-defines the definition of douche-bag.
The more I read about this guy the more I wonder what rock he crawled out from under, and when he'll go back.

[Emp]

Ive been swerving around I-70 for a few days, dodging ditched cars and missed the start of this thread. But for once I find some reasonable opinions about sportsmanship and human kindness in play.

Different people see sports in many different ways. In basketball, a pro game is different from a college game, a D1 game is different from a D3 game is different from an intramural game. School league games are different from AAU games. Youth league games are different from select league games. Each league, each team, each coach and each player has a right to define its goals and motivation for participation.

Yes we love to demonize the opposition at the D1 College level, especially if the team or its fans have been provocative or ill-humored. That same standard is not necessarily applicable to a high school game.

In general, I get the most pleasure from a well contested game, in the gym or the arena, where the players compete hard but share respect for each other, and can walk away afterward without hate or humiliation being part of the equation.

In this case, the coach was teaching values that included the notion that beating up on the clearly defenseless was OK. The Coach can say what he wants, but he is a coach for the school and its students, not for himself. If he disagrees with the school's philosophy about the role of sports, it is good that he spoke out, so it would be clear beyond doubt that he should no longer be coaching that school's team.

He can take his philosophy any where he wants, and other schools and leagues can judge him as they choose, and employ him or not.