Charlie Weis record

[Smooth]

Today, Charlie Weiss broke Jessica Simpson's record for the most times a non-player has had his/her face shown during a football game (743 times, but that won't be official until the tapes are reviewed). He is much more photogenic than Jessica. He also broke the coaches record, prviously held by a pouting Bill Cowher and a red-faced Chucky Gruden.

[kyxu]

It's "Weis"

[nuts4xu]

Nice win by the Irish tonight, and I hope this helps them turn a corner. It was a great game to build off and it would be great to see this as a rebirth of sorts for Notre Dame.

Breaking the bowl streak, even if it was the Hawaii bowl, is a great feat for Fat Charlie.

[UCGRAD4X]

About the only thing to salvage at this point was a big bowl win. I think this qualifies.

[BENWAR]

About the only thing to salvage at this point was a big bowl win. I think this qualifies.

That was a big bowl??

Give me a break.

[Stonebreaker]

It was a huge bowl game. Nice win for the Irish.

[gladdenguy]

It just goes to show that UC is not that good. That is what I took from the game. If Notre Dame can destroy Hawaii and UC needs a miracle, I now hope Virginia Tech wins by 30.
Yes, that was what I got out of the game. Not much.
Notre Dame won a bowl game on Dec 24th. Big deal if you ask me. And a against a 7-6 Hawaii team that stinks.

[xeus]

Agree to an extent GG, but UC had nothing to play for in that game, whereas this was a huge game for Notre Dame, even though it was only something called the "Hawaii Bowl" - ND had to win to be relevant in college football going forward.

[kyxu]

Agree to an extent GG, but UC had nothing to play for in that game,

It's college football. There's always something to play for.

[nuts4xu]

It's college football. There's always something to play for.

Herman Edwards would tell you that "you play to win the game". Notre Dame didn't hold back and beat the snot out of Hawaii. They did what they had to do and did it well. Charlie finally had them ready to play in a big game and that is something to build on.

I will take the win no matter how shitty the bowl game is.

[sylvester]

It was a big game for the Irish due to the fact that they are aggressively recruiting a top LB who is from Hawaii. This was a great chance to show him what he could be a part of and a loss would have essentially closed the door on him considering ND. I cannot recall the name of the LB, but Charlie has been pressing for this kid, and obviously USC is going to be in the running for him at some point. This game was a good opportunity to provide a glimpse of the hopefully more successful near future for ND.

[Juice]

His name is Manti Teo and he is looking mainly at ND, USC, and other west coast schools. He already made a visit to ND, where he saw them lose to Syracuse.

It is nice to see the Irish win a bowl game and finish above .500. It would have sucked to finish 6-7. This game should not be celebrated but viewed basically as the first step in a process.

[halcyon.days.of.Carter]

As an ND grad student, and lifelong Irish fan, I entered the season with one wish for my team - win a damn bowl game. I didn't care if it was the "Papajohns.com Deveroes Winter Classic" in Cheyenne, WY as long as it was a bowl victory.

Is it a big deal as far as the college football landscape is concerned? No.
Did it exorcise a lot of demons? Yes.
Is it a great step forward in terms of confidence building? Yes.

That being said, I still feel like Charlie will prove he cannot develop talent in '09. There will be no excuse for the same old breakdowns with the #8, #7, #1, and (hopefully) #7 classes at his disposal. Freshman/sophomores scored roughly 28 of the Irish's 34 TDs this year. They've had their grace period, now let's see if they can actually beat some good competition.

Edit: By the way, Te'o goes to Punahou High School in Hawaii. You may know it as the #1 High School athletic program in the country and the alma mater of a certain Barack Obama. The kid is absolutely explosive.

I'm not going to say that we're on our way to "waking up the echoes" or "returning to glory" (tired cliches that I despise) but those who feel it is impossible for the Irish to remain relevant are dreaming. It's no longer possible for any program to do what ND did in the past (ND included) but to think that they will never come close to competing at the highest level again is simply wishful thinking.

Edit: By the way, Te'o goes to Punahou in Hawaii. You may recognize it as the #1 athletic department in the country and the alma mater of a certain Barack Obama. The kid is explosive.

[Cheesehead]

I'm sorry Irish fans but you can spin it anyway you want, but it's not a big bowl game. I was wondering about UC chances vs. VT too; if Hawaii is that bad. Then again, I'm not sure I really care all that much.

[xavierj]

To me it was not coincidence that Michael Floyd comes back after missing half the season and Golden Tate goes off because he gets single coverage all night. Michael Floyd is the real deal and when he is on the field you cannot double anyone and you can stretch the field at will. Next year ND will be explosive and in two years Michael Floyd will be a top 10 NFL draft pick. Kid is big and can flat out fly.

[Stonebreaker]

Floyd is the real deal, as is Tate. ND was fortunate that Hawaii doesn't have a very good secondary. UC is not horrible becasue they barely beat them, as Clausen was nearly perfect except for a few drops.
For Irish fans, it was fun to watch...and yes, it's just the beginning of the process. However, it makes the long offseason a lot more palatable.

[drudy23]

There was a bowl game on?

[halcyon.days.of.Carter]

To me it was not coincidence that Michael Floyd comes back after missing half the season and Golden Tate goes off because he gets single coverage all night.

I agree. I feel a lot of it has to do with Floyd (although, he only missed the last three games). It's no secret that when he went out the offensive woes really started. However, a point was proven the other night - you will have hell guarding Floyd and Tate on the same field. If the O-Line can improve a bit more to establish more of a run threat then you will see a very potent Irish offense. I can't remember when I've seen a more explosive WR duo.

The offseason will be long, but the game improved my overall disposition in regards to the Irish football team.

[XU Fan in DC]

Amen, Stonebreaker! GO MUSKIES AND GO IRISH!

[Juice]

I agree. I feel a lot of it has to do with Floyd (although, he only missed the last three games). It's no secret that when he went out the offensive woes really started. However, a point was proven the other night - you will have hell guarding Floyd and Tate on the same field. If the O-Line can improve a bit more to establish more of a run threat then you will see a very potent Irish offense. I can't remember when I've seen a more explosive WR duo.

The offseason will be long, but the game improved my overall disposition in regards to the Irish football team.

Floyd definitely opens things up for Tate and Clausen. The problem with the offense is the lack of a run game. Allen and Hughes are more than capable and are actually a very good tandem. That O-line just sucks.
Some ND alum who works in the media in Chicago (I forget who it was) said the problem with the line is that they use zone blocking and there is a lack of a push because the line is too worried about moving laterally. I am not experienced enough with football X's and O's to know which blocking scheme is truly the best but his analysis made some sense. Hopefully Charlies can bring in a capable offensive coordinator to really get this offense moving. I think a lot of it might depend on how much authority and freedom Charlie gives the new guy.

[wkrq59]

Any bowl game victory is big for the team that has not won one in ages.
As far as comparing Notre Dame's victory over Hawaii to UC's come from behind win against Hawaii, there are very few similarities excluding the sites and the game itself.
UC lost its top receiver on the first play from scrimmage. The game meant nothing except the opportunity to win an 11th game. In the end, it was defense and special team that won for UC.
As far as maintaining the dislike or hatred for UC, so what? Why hope Virginia Tech kills UC? Seems pointless as the game is football not basketball.
BTW, Notre Dame will continue to have problems for a number of reasons, including:
*The mystique is not what it used to be.
*There is no league championship for which to play.
*The academic standards will never be compromised and really, they don't have to be.
*The cupcakes--Navy, Duke, North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Air Force and the like are no longer cupcakes.
*Modern day cynicism has made "Win one for the Gipper a joke" even if it shouldn't be one.
*Notre Dame is no longer--and hasn't been for many years-the Eden for catholic young men who can play football and play it well.
*The school will continue to struggle to attract the superior African-American athlete for any number of reasons, none of them completely true but all of them a problem.
*Weis will continue to suffer because he is not Rockne, Leheay or Holtz.
:D

[XUglow]

Lot's of to do about nothing. If Western Michigan had beaten Bowling Green by the same margin, would we be discussing what a watershed game it is for WMU? In the power rankings, WMU is one place ahead of ND, and Bowling Green is one place ahead of Hawaii.

[Strange Brew]

Why this game mattered to college football.

Teams that matter (historically):

Alabama
Notre Dame
USC
Ohio State
Michigan
Nebraska
Texas
Harvard (Ivy League matters not, but if they were to start winning it would be BIG news)
Yale (Ivy League matters not, but if they were to start winning it would be BIG news)
Navy
Army

Any time one of these programs falls hard or wins big it is news. When any other team does anything it will get less coverage. These are the mainstayers, the trailblazers (whether they are winning right now or not). It is about history and tradition.

[xavierj]

Any bowl game victory is big for the team that has not won one in ages.
As far as comparing Notre Dame's victory over Hawaii to UC's come from behind win against Hawaii, there are very few similarities excluding the sites and the game itself.
UC lost its top receiver on the first play from scrimmage. The game meant nothing except the opportunity to win an 11th game. In the end, it was defense and special team that won for UC.
As far as maintaining the dislike or hatred for UC, so what? Why hope Virginia Tech kills UC? Seems pointless as the game is football not basketball.
BTW, Notre Dame will continue to have problems for a number of reasons, including:
*The mystique is not what it used to be.
*There is no league championship for which to play.
*The academic standards will never be compromised and really, they don't have to be.
*The cupcakes--Navy, Duke, North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Air Force and the like are no longer cupcakes.
*Modern day cynicism has made "Win one for the Gipper a joke" even if it shouldn't be one.
*Notre Dame is no longer--and hasn't been for many years-the Eden for catholic young men who can play football and play it well.
*The school will continue to struggle to attract the superior African-American athlete for any number of reasons, none of them completely true but all of them a problem.
*Weis will continue to suffer because he is not Rockne, Leheay or Holtz.
:D

Look at ND's freshman, sophmore and next years incoming recruits. Then tell me again how they are struggling to attract african-american recruits. Yes they were struggling prior to Weis but he has turned up the level of recruiting big time. They will compete for NC in the next two years.

[GuyFawkes38]

Why this game mattered to college football.

Teams that matter (historically):

Alabama
Notre Dame
USC
Ohio State
Michigan
Nebraska
Texas
Harvard (Ivy League matters not, but if they were to start winning it would be BIG news)
Yale (Ivy League matters not, but if they were to start winning it would be BIG news)
Navy
Army

Any time one of these programs falls hard or wins big it is news. When any other team does anything it will get less coverage. These are the mainstayers, the trailblazers (whether they are winning right now or not). It is about history and tradition.

Yale, Army, Harvard...???

Here's a fact which ND fans can't come to grips with: No one really cares about ND outside of the alumni of the parochial schools of the midwest and northeast. I know your family loves ND, but your neighbors don't care.



Edit: the Q makes the point that ND is no longer the eden for catholic young men who play football well. I agree 100%

The ND phenomenon was always an ethnic one. And it continues to be one (irish, german and italian American catholics still adore the place).

But the best football athletes coming out of catholic high schools are African Americans who tend to be more apathetic to ND (or perhaps rational is the better word. Who wants to play football at one of the least exciting places on earth).

[X-band '01]

One relevant stat that ESPN brought up on Wednesday - out of 109 Division I-A teams, 81 teams had won a bowl game prior to Notre Dame's win. Give credit to ND for finally winning a game; now they can take the next step and win the Gator/Sun Bowl; maybe then they can consider winning a BCS game in the near future.

[xavierj]

Yale, Army, Harvard...???

Here's a fact which ND fans can't come to grips with: No one really cares about ND outside of the alumni of the parochial schools of the midwest and northeast. I know your family loves ND, but your neighbors don't care.



Edit: the Q makes the point that ND is no longer the eden for catholic young men who play football well. I agree 100%

The ND phenomenon was always an ethnic one. And it continues to be one (irish, german and italian American catholics still adore the place).

But the best football athletes coming out of catholic high schools are African Americans who tend to be more apathetic to ND (or perhaps rational is the better word. Who wants to play football at one of the least exciting places on earth).


No one really cares about ND football?? That is a stretch. They only have the largest following in all of college sports. And it is not like they are some state school in a big city with 40,000 students. And do you really think that NBC would spend millions of dollars just to broadcast every single home game on national TV if no one cared.

[Stonebreaker]

A lot of people care. Some are big time fans, and some are big time haters. :p :D

[GuyFawkes38]

No one really cares about ND football?? That is a stretch. They only have the largest following in all of college sports. And it is not like they are some state school in a big city with 40,000 students. And do you really think that NBC would spend millions of dollars just to broadcast every single home game on national TV if no one cared.


I hate to brag about the stuff I write. But I came up with a great line: Notre Dame is a school that your family might love, but your neighbors don't really care about."

ND is a family/ethnic phenomenon. The fan base isn't quite as large as ND fans seem to think it is. And the fan base (white catholics) suck at football.

[DiamondDave]

I hate to brag about the stuff I write. But I came up with a great line: Notre Dame is a school that your family might love, but your neighbors don't really care about."

ND is a family/ethnic phenomenon. The fan base isn't quite as large as ND fans seem to think it is. And the fan base (white catholics) suck at football.

Maybe the fan base isn't as large as some of the larger state schools such as Ohio St. but to say that most people don't care about ND football is ridiculous. My family loves Notre Dame but I can assure you that my neighbors absolutely hate them. The reason why ND is still "relevant" is the massive amount of hate directed towards them. The amount of people that care about ND football either positively or negatively is staggering.

[boozehound]

Charlie Weis washes himself with a rag on a stick...

[xudash]

Maybe the fan base isn't as large as some of the larger state schools such as Ohio St. but to say that most people don't care about ND football is ridiculous. My family loves Notre Dame but I can assure you that my neighbors absolutely hate them. The reason why ND is still "relevant" is the massive amount of hate directed towards them. The amount of people that care about ND football either positively or negatively is staggering.

Envy and Jealousy are products of being on the other side of the table from great, sustained success. I guess it is a matter of perceived degree at this point - you make a good point DDave because ND still represents a great deal of tradition and they have the NBC contract, etc. - but the negative side of the care has been decreasing, because ND hasn't been successful. The envy now is more focused on them holding onto their independence and NBC TV contract, not what they've accomplished on the field.

There is really no way to argue against their bowl win as a positive step. Regardless of the caliber of the bowl, they finally won one since 1994. Nonetheless, the proof is in the pudding; ND must translate that "momentum" into a successful season next year.

Notre Dame's perceived/real dominance of the college game is over, never to be replicated again by them or anyone else (except perhaps an SEC school or USC who take their graduation rates to zero while they take their team speed to off the charts).

I read and understand the arguments that ND can still play at the highest level. I am discounting their great recruiting classes at this point. But that is what makes next year and the year after the pivotal years: that talent transitions to upper classes with more experience.

A BCS bowl victory in the next 2 years, or the flag receives another gash. ND's bowl tie-in essentially looks like this:

Lose 2 games go to BCS Bowl Game.
Lose 3 or 4 and it's the Gator Bowl.
Lose 5 and it's the next best Big East Bowl Game.

So, if they win 9 non-exempt games or finish in the top 10 in the final BCS ratings, the other measure, which places a premium on winning obviously, they get a BCS invite.

They haven't won a BCS bowl yet, and all the other top programs aren't exactly standing still.

[Strange Brew]

Yale, Army, Harvard...???

Here's a fact which ND fans can't come to grips with: No one really cares about ND outside of the alumni of the parochial schools of the midwest and northeast. I know your family loves ND, but your neighbors don't care.



Edit: the Q makes the point that ND is no longer the eden for catholic young men who play football well. I agree 100%

The ND phenomenon was always an ethnic one. And it continues to be one (irish, german and italian American catholics still adore the place).

But the best football athletes coming out of catholic high schools are African Americans who tend to be more apathetic to ND (or perhaps rational is the better word. Who wants to play football at one of the least exciting places on earth).

Yes, because white because white people are horrible at football. Nice racist comment. I would say that ND is struggling right now because they lack talent when it comes to upperclassmen. It has nothing to do with where your grandpa was born, as always, football comes down to desire, stregnth and coaching.

[Stonebreaker]

I love seeing people who don't know squat about ND give commentary. I tend not to comment on things I don't know, and I recommend others do the same.

[GuyFawkes38]

Yes, because white because white people are horrible at football. Nice racist comment. I would say that ND is struggling right now because they lack talent when it comes to upperclassmen. It has nothing to do with where your grandpa was born, as always, football comes down to desire, stregnth and coaching.

Somehow it makes me racist to make the obvious comment that African Americans tend to be better football players than 3rd generation Irish/Italian/German Americans.

I guess in a technical sense I'm racist by making such a judgment.

But come on. ND is not going to win a championship by attracting Irish Catholics from St. Xavier and Elder. We don't live in that type of college football environment anymore.

[UCGRAD4X]

I love seeing people who don't know squat about ND give commentary. I tend not to comment on things I don't know, and I recommend others do the same.

If people stopped commenting on things they know nothing about, the main stream media would be out of business and all those hollywood elitists and rockstars would be relegated to being...well...hollywood elitists and rockstars.

[Juice]

Somehow it makes me racist to make the obvious comment that African Americans tend to be better football players than 3rd generation Irish/Italian/German Americans.

I guess in a technical sense I'm racist by making such a judgment.

But come on. ND is not going to win a championship by attracting Irish Catholics from St. Xavier and Elder. We don't live in that type of college football environment anymore.

Kyle Rudolph would argue with you on that.

But I see your point. The players leading Florida and LSU to national championships are not playing smash mouth GCL style football. They are winning with speed which is not the GCL's main strength.

ND should look to the GCL for linemen, linebackers, and tight ends.

[GuyFawkes38]

Kyle Rudolph would argue with you on that.

But I see your point. The players leading Florida and LSU to national championships are not playing smash mouth GCL style football. They are winning with speed which is not the GCL's main strength.

ND should look to the GCL for linemen, linebackers, and tight ends.

I think Juice speaks the truth.

It just make me a little sick when I hear posters on here claim, "ND is a top 10 program. The last 15 years have been aberration. We'll definitely be back."

I'm not saying that ND won't win another national championship.

I'm just saying that if they do want to win another national championship, ND will need to work much harder (and receive more luck) than Texas, Florida, USC, etc...

[xudash]

Juice nailed it with this: "The players leading Florida and LSU to national championships are not playing smash mouth GCL style football. They are winning with speed which is not the GCL's main strength."

Speed and strength. Even Ohio State was exposed by them. Actually, Ohio State has speed at certain skill positions, but these teams have speed IN VIRTUALLY EVERY POSITION.

Coupled with high-tech offenses, that speed puts opposing defenses on their heels quickly because they simply don't know where to expect the next play.

The type of kids we're talking about here mainly come from the South, for the most part. There is no getting around that.

[DC Muskie]

I love seeing people who don't know squat about ND give commentary. I tend not to comment on things I don't know, and I recommend others do the same.

I love seeing people think that breaking down ND's trouble is something similiar to brain surgery.

Yeah, ND is soooo hard to understand! Why? Because it's ND!

[XU 87]

It has nothing to do with where your grandpa was born, as always, football comes down to desire, stregnth and coaching.

You left out the most important qualifications- size and speed.

[UCGRAD4X]

The number of posts on this thread is proof positive of the lack of interest in ND football.