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Snipe
10-06-2008, 02:00 PM
link (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?_r=2&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin)


Bill Ayers helped found the radical Weathermen, launching a campaign of bombings that would target the Pentagon and United States Capitol.

Barrack Obama kicked off his young political career "at a coffee Mr. Ayers hosted for Mr. Obama’s first run for office".

They also worked together on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge and a charitable board (The Woods Fund (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=57231)) that gave money to a man with known connections to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization), a terrorist organization.

More from the Times:


“I don’t think there’s a statute of limitations on terrorist bombings,” Mr. Chapman said in an interview, speaking not of the law but of political and moral implications.

“If you’re in public life, you ought to say, ‘I don’t want to be associated with this guy,’ ” Mr. Chapman said. “If John McCain had a long association with a guy who’d bombed abortion clinics, I don’t think people would say, ‘That’s ancient history.’ ”

Mr. Ayers and his wife, Bernadine Dohrn, a clinical associate professor at Northwestern University Law School who was also a Weather Underground founder, did not respond to multiple requests for comment.


a 1970 pipe bomb in San Francisco attributed to the group killed one police officer and severely hurt another. An accidental 1970 explosion in a Greenwich Village town house basement killed three radicals; survivors later said they had been making nail bombs to detonate at a military dance at Fort Dix in New Jersey. And in 1981, in an armed robbery of a Brinks armored truck in Nanuet, N.Y., that involved Weather Underground members including Kathy Boudin and David Gilbert, two police officers and a Brinks guard were killed.


[Ayers] added that the Weathermen had “showed remarkable restraint” given the nature of the American bombing campaign in Vietnam that they were trying to stop.

Truth is stranger than fiction. That is unbelievable.

Not surprisingly, Ayers is considered a mainstream guy in the world of Chicago machine politics. I wonder if the rest of the country will agree with that assessment. Kudos to the New York Times for reporting this, even if they left out many key facts.

What does Obama have to say about this?

Here is what David Axelrod (Obama’s Campaign Manager) had to on CNN:


JIM ACOSTA: Now a college professor in Chicago, Ayers and Obama served together several years on a nonprofit board. And in 1995 Ayers hosted a coffee for Obama when the young community organizer was making his first run for the State Senate. At this point looking back, should he not have done that?

DAVID AXELROD: Well I mean, when he went, he certainly — he didn’t know the history.

ACOSTA: The Democratic nominee’s chief strategist David Axelrod maintains Obama at that time had no idea about Ayers’ violent past.
He didn’t know the history?

Didn't know the history? I will give you a history lesson.

Extremist Jeremiah Wright (“God Damn America”)

Obama: “That is not the Jeremiah Wright that I knew”

Convicted Felon Tony Rezco

Obama: “That is not the Tony Rezco that I knew”

And now it comes to terrorist Bill Ayers. According to his campaign manager, that was not the Bill Ayers that Obama knew too.

If you take him at his word that he didn’t know all of these people that he surrounded himself with, he is simply and idiot with a bad judge of character. If you don’t take him at his word, he is a liar.

I think he is a lying assclown. I also think that the American people have a right to know about Obama's terrorist associations.

gladdenguy
10-06-2008, 02:29 PM
Can't be worse than George Bush. That would be impossible.

DC Muskie
10-06-2008, 02:42 PM
I can't believe it took you until 3:00 today to post this.

Something I also found in that piece:


But the two men do not appear to have been close. Nor has Mr. Obama ever expressed sympathy for the radical views and actions of Mr. Ayers, whom he has called “somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8.”

I think the American people don't give a shit about what some dude did 40 years ago.

But keep trying, maybe the hockey mom with all of her major accomplishments in Alaska beauty pageants and state basketball playoffs can pull out the victory.

The Artist
10-06-2008, 02:45 PM
David West, a 3 star recruit, has committed to Xavier!

Firehose
10-06-2008, 02:54 PM
David West, a 3 star recruit, has committed to Xavier!

I've got a good feeling about that West kid, but you know no one can possibly replace James Posey! I just got a Nuggets tattoo! They're my new favorite team - way better than Charlotte!

Juice
10-06-2008, 03:26 PM
I think the American people don't give a shit about what some dude did 40 years ago.

But keep trying, maybe the hockey mom with all of her major accomplishments in Alaska beauty pageants and state basketball playoffs can pull out the victory.

I already knew of this story, but I do care what a man did 40 years ago if he was bombing buildings. This is worse than Rev. Wright because they guy actually went through with things and it simply was not words.

And the basketball thing about Palin is stupid considering I have seen about 20 stories/clips about Obama's love for basketball and how one of his staffers went to Duke, etc.

XU 87
10-06-2008, 03:32 PM
I think the American people don't give a shit about what some dude did 40 years ago.



Maybe so. But people do care that, in the not so distant past, Obama was associating with, and apparently was friends with, a known terrorist.

The worst part of all of this episode is that a known and unrepentant terrorist is now a college professor at a public institution. That's a disgrace.

DC Muskie
10-06-2008, 03:35 PM
I already knew of this story, but I do care what a man did 40 years ago if he was bombing buildings.

The groups biggest accomplishment was it blew its own members up. Seriously, if this was a bigger deal, why isn't this guy still in jail?


And the basketball thing about Palin is stupid considering I have seen about 20 stories/clips about Obama's love for basketball and how one of his staffers went to Duke, etc.

The point is Sarah Palin has accomplished a lot, like winning the state basketball tournament for Wasila. I doubt that is something Obama can put on his resume.

DC Muskie
10-06-2008, 03:39 PM
Maybe so. But people do care that, in the not so distant past, Obama was associating with, and apparently was friends with, a known terrorist.

Apparently being the key word. Like, apparently, the husband of the governor of Alaska was a member of an Alaska separatist political party.


The worst part of all of this episode is that a known and unrepentant terrorist is now a college professor at a public institution. That's a disgrace.

What should the guy be doing? This is perfect for the right wing to continue to hammer on the elite, leftist views that higher education obviously promotes!

XU 87
10-06-2008, 03:49 PM
What should the guy be doing? This is perfect for the right wing to continue to hammer on the elite, leftist views that higher education obviously promotes!

So you think it's ok that unrepentant terrorists should be given teaching postitions at public universities?

And Obama was friends with guy. He announced the start of his first political campaign at the guy's house.

DC Muskie
10-06-2008, 03:57 PM
So you think it's ok that unrepentant terrorists should be given teaching postitions at public universities?

I'm just wondering why the guy isn't in jail. Unrepentant terrorist or not, I'm not sure why he even has a job. I was just curious where you thought he should be, that's all.


And Obama was friends with guy. He announced the start of his first political campaign at the guy's house.

He announced his first political campaign at the guy's house? WHOA! I didn't know that. He must be BFF with this guy.

PM Thor
10-06-2008, 04:06 PM
http://photos12.flickr.com/18688934_f3ee6116e7.jpg

XU 87
10-06-2008, 04:17 PM
I'm just wondering why the guy isn't in jail. Unrepentant terrorist or not, I'm not sure why he even has a job. I was just curious where you thought he should be, that's all.



He announced his first political campaign at the guy's house? WHOA! I didn't know that. He must be BFF with this guy.

Does it say anything about Obama that he was friends with a known terrorist? And does it say anything about Obama, that in all of the places to start your campaign, you start it at a terrorist's home?

Ayres is not in jail because he case was dismissed in the early 80's due to prosecutorial misconduct. Illinois apparantly thinks that's the same thing as a "not guilty" finding. But the guy is an admitted terrorist who was given a job because of his father's political connections. One would think that being a terrorist disqualifies you from ever holding a public teaching position. But this warped university seems to think being a terrorist and blowing up public buildings is some kind of badge of honor. Thank God Ayres didn't try to blow up an abortion clinic, then he never would have gotten the job.

DC Muskie
10-06-2008, 04:34 PM
Does it say anything about Obama that he was friends with a known terrorist? And does it say anything about Obama, that in all of the places to start your campaign, you start it at a terrorist's home?

I think it's awful that a guy would start his political career with a known terrorist, who's biggest accomplishments were having members blow themselves up. Yes, I think it's awful and I don't think Obama should even be considered president because this is an awful, awful, thing.

Just imagine if he went there to kick off his second campaign. Awful.



Ayres is not in jail because he case was dismissed in the early 80's due to prosecutorial misconduct. Illinois apparantly thinks that's the same thing as a "not guilty" finding.

Man, prosecutor misconduct? That's how that guy got off?


One would think that being a terrorist disqualifies you from ever holding a public teaching position. But this warped university seems to think being a terrorist and blowing up public buildings is some kind of badge of honor. Thank God Ayres didn't try to blow up an abortion clinic, then he never would have gotten the job.

Seriously. I mean we need to fix this educational system where a known BFF of Obama can get a job teaching. Somehow I wish he tried to blow up an abortion clinic, because two things would have happened for sure:

1. The clinic would not have blown up.
2. He'd be sitting in jail.

vee4xu
10-06-2008, 04:53 PM
Interesting, when the NY Times writes articles about McCain it is a left wing, liberal rag unworthy of wiping one's shitty ass. Yet, when the article is written about Obama, it is greated with open arms and treated like dogma. I find that amusing.

The Artist
10-06-2008, 04:57 PM
87 have you followed the story at all? If so, you would know that they are not and were not friends.

But hey, if you want them to be in your mind, we're all for it and will support you every step of the way.

The right wingers on this thread (*cough* Snipe *cough*) are mirroring mccain perfectly, and are exactly the reason I will vote for Obama. Let me know when we get to something of substance.

Snipe
10-06-2008, 05:24 PM
David West, a 3 star recruit, has committed to Xavier!


I can't believe it took you until 3:00 today to post this.




Interesting, when the NY Times writes articles about McCain it is a left wing, liberal rag unworthy of wiping one's shitty ass. Yet, when the article is written about Obama, it is greated with open arms and treated like dogma. I find that amusing.

Artist, Muskie & Vee, this was an article that was just in the New York Times. It is a current event for that reason. A more extensive connection between the two has been revealed. Barrack Obama was openly deceptive when he claimed that Ayers was "just a guy in my neighborhood". It looks like terrorist Bill Ayers was critical to the launch of the Obama campaign. Their ties are much more elaborate than Obama initially let on.

Yet Obama claims that he never knew about Ayers' past. Is that believable? Does that pass the smell test?

And Vee, I do think the times is biased. I doubt many would argue, it is usually so blatant. Even this article whitewashes over facts and paints Obama in the best possible light. There is more to this story.

I wish that the NYTimes would have done the proper investigative reporting during the Democratic primary. It is unfair to Hillary Clinton that this comes out now instead of then. When new facts like this start to emerge, you reallize that the man with the paper thin record has never really been vetted.

Who is the real Barrack Obama?

XU 87
10-06-2008, 07:10 PM
I think it's awful that a guy would start his political career with a known terrorist, who's biggest accomplishments were having members blow themselves up. Yes, I think it's awful and I don't think Obama should even be considered president because this is an awful, awful, thing.

Just imagine if he went there to kick off his second campaign. Awful.



The organization which Ayres helped lead did much more than that. They set off a bomb in San Francisco killing one police officer and partially blinding another. Officer Fogarty was partially blinded and Officer McDonnell was killed. They set off a bomb at the house of the New York chief justice. At around the time they were bombing the Chief Justice's home, they also bombed a Manhattan police car and two New York recruiting stations. They also set off a bomb in the Pentagon. And what did Ayres say about this? Did he apologize or at least admit he was wrong? No, he wished he had "done more".

How would you feel if McCain started his political life by holding a fund raiser at the home of an abortion clinic bomber?

XU 87
10-06-2008, 07:19 PM
87 have you followed the story at all? If so, you would know that they are not and were not friends.

But hey, if you want them to be in your mind, we're all for it and will support you every step of the way.



Mr. and Mrs. Ayres held a political campaign event for Obama at their house. He started his campaign at their house.

But I'll ask you the same question. If a republican candidate for President once held a fund raiser at the home of a known abortion clinic bomber, wouldn't that raise some questions about the candidate?

Snipe
10-07-2008, 02:46 AM
87 have you followed the story at all? If so, you would know that they are not and were not friends.


Are they friends? (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Ax_on_Ayers.html)


I didn't get to ask Obama about his relationship with Bill Ayers today, but did ask his chief strategist (and reigning expert on Chicago's political tribes), David Axelrod, about the two men.

"Bill Ayers lives in his neighborhood. Their kids attend the same school," he said. "They're certainly friendly, they know each other, as anyone whose kids go to school together."

Are they friends? Are they friendly? What is the distinction of the two?

One thing that needs to be noted is Axelrod's response. Ayers kids do not go to the same school as Obama’s. They went to the same school. Ayers’ kids are much older and no longer go there. So when he says "as anyone whose kids go to school together", it is complete bullshit that was made up to cover up the association.

Obama and Ayers knew each other for years. Ayers held a fundraiser at his own house to kick off Barrack Obama's initial political campaign. Obama was president of a non-profit organization that was started by Ayers. Millions of dollars of funding from this organization was steered towards the programs proposed by Ayers and his friends. They served on another board together that gave money to a guy that was a member of the PLO. Obama even gave a positive revue in the Chicago papers to one of Ayers' books. All of this can be and has been documented.

The Artist says that they are not and were not friends. I question his assertion with the facts on the table. I don't know why he can feel comfortable being so declarative. I look at the same facts and draw different conclusions. Even his campaign advisor said they were friendly.




The right wingers on this thread (*cough* Snipe *cough*) are mirroring mccain perfectly, and are exactly the reason I will vote for Obama. Let me know when we get to something of substance.

I don't care for McCain and I have stated that time and time again in this forum. If you want to start a thread bashing John McCain, I will gladly add to it. For full disclosure I voted for Hillary Clinton. The fact is that Barrack Obama is unfit for office. He has never run a company, a city, or a state or anything. He had never run a damn thing, except the Chicago Annenberg Challenge which he ran with terrorist William Ayers. And he doesn't like to talk about that.

He has never led people in any capacity. He has no legislative accomplishments that I can determine. He has never done a damn thing other than run for President. I guess that is change that we can believe in.

Multiple Choice Question Of The Day

How did Obama portray his relationship with terrorist Bill Ayers to the media?

1) He lied about it
2) He downplayed it
3) He discounted it
4) He misrepresented the relationship

Pick whatever words you want to describe this recent news event. Obama described Ayers as "just a guy that lives in my neighborhood". The fact is that they had a close working relationship and that Ayers was integral in the start of Obama's political career. If anyone wants to disagree, I would like to debate the facts on merit.

They say it isn't the crime, it is the cover-up. If Obama is deceptive on the facts of this relationship, what other facts is he "downplaying" or misrepresenting in his own associations?

The more we find out, the more questions come up.

Do we really know the real Barrack Obama? Will the real Barrack Obama please stand up?

PM Thor
10-07-2008, 03:37 AM
Snipe, can you get more transparent please? You are the Toucan Sam of the Republican party.

Snipe
10-07-2008, 08:21 AM
Thor, I am a registered Democrat and I voted for Hillary Clinton. I don't think it is fair to Hillary and her campaign that these revelations are coming out now.

These new revelations show that Barrack was much more involved with a leader of a terrorist organization than he cared to admit. Am I wrong on this? Is name calling your only response?

DC Muskie
10-07-2008, 10:49 AM
I've stopped reading this. This story has been out for years. You guys like to recite the fact that Obama has been running for president for years, and yet somehow you think this is a new revelation.

I'm laughing so hard right now.

And 87 just to let you know, I wouldn't care about your made up situation with McCain.

PM Thor
10-07-2008, 11:53 AM
For the record, I have no idea what I was going for with the Toucan Sam comment. It was early and I was sleep deprived.

Snipe
10-07-2008, 02:18 PM
87 have you followed the story at all? If so, you would know that they are not and were not friends.

But hey, if you want them to be in your mind, we're all for it and will support you every step of the way.

The right wingers on this thread (*cough* Snipe *cough*) are mirroring mccain perfectly, and are exactly the reason I will vote for Obama. Let me know when we get to something of substance.


Snipe, can you get more transparent please? You are the Toucan Sam of the Republican party.


I've stopped reading this. This story has been out for years. You guys like to recite the fact that Obama has been running for president for years, and yet somehow you think this is a new revelation.

I'm laughing so hard right now.

And 87 just to let you know, I wouldn't care about your made up situation with McCain.

Anderson Cooper 360 Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvROBLortBQ)

First the New York Times, now it is CNN that is breaking the news.

DC Muskie says that this story has been out for years, but it hasn't. This story just broke on CNN.

Barack Obama has lied about his terrorist associations. Those lies have just come to light.

He also lied about his "coming out party" at Ayers home. He claimed it was set up by Alice Palmer and she selected the Ayers home. Palmer has come out and told CNN that she had nothing to do with it. The spoke with people who attended the event and they stated that it was indeed set up by Ayers.

Obama has been caught in a lie. They say it is not the crime but the coverup.

Am I still taking the McCain line on this? Am I a spokesman for the Republican Party? I have been quoting breaking news from the New York Times and now CNN.

Emp
10-07-2008, 03:46 PM
Snipe, you're a registered Democrat and I'm The Emperor of Siam. In name only. I CAN believe you crossed the aisle as suggested by the state republican apparatus and voted for Hillary because the Rs wanted to run against her, and not Obama.

You are sooo transparently posting the Republican/Willie the Cunning ham talking points. Do you really think anyone who has read your posts for years doesn't get it? Fair and balanced are not the posting characteristics that come to mind.

You know for a guy who was a playboy at the officers club, dumped his crippled wife when he was 42 and had 25 year old daugher, er Cindy in his sights, the Ayers English Professor story is so lame. So old. So pathetic.

Snipe
10-07-2008, 04:09 PM
Emp, I am no fan of John McCain. I have never liked him.

As for Hillary, I did vote for her. If the press would have vetted Obama then instead of now she would have won.

I don't know what you think is lame about this story. Obama has lied about his past associations with a terrorist and he has been caught in it. This should have been discovered long ago. And where is Obama and why isn't he taking questions on this? It is has just been discovered, but people dismiss it as old news.


Obama’s top political adviser said today that the senator “did not know” that Ayers was a retired terrorist.

“When he went [ed.: to the party at Ayers’ home that launched Obama’s political career] he certainly didn’t know the history,” chief Obama strategist David Axelrod told CNN. “There’s no evidence that they’re close,” he added.

Now that Barack has been caught in a lie, how believable is it that he didn't know Ayers' history?

And I love his campaign manager "There's no evidence that they're close". That isn't straight talk or an answer, that is political double speak. A straight answer would have been "They are not close", not "There's no evidence". Please. That is pathetic. Axelrod is with Obama every day, you bet he knows the answer.

Another staffer:


GIBBS: No, no. What David said was accurate. What David said was very accurate. Look, Joe, as has been written by any number of news organizations, what's been written by the New York Times: they knew each other, they worked on two boards together, they were not close.

The New York Times says that were not close, and then the Obama staffer quotes the New York Times. Why doesn't Obama say speak to the issue.

Ayers started the non-profit that Obama chaired, Obama funded Ayers' projects though the chairmanship of said non-profit. Obama kicked off his political career at Ayers home. And they were not close? Who believes that?

Snipe
10-07-2008, 04:16 PM
And isn't this the classic political strategy: deny deny deny, then when the truth comes out you say "Oh, that old story? Give it a rest. We need to concentrate on the future and what is important to the American people."

It is a proven winning strategy. That doesn't change the fact that Barack has just been exposed as a liar. He will be the next American President. I hope we don't regret the fact that he wasn't properly vetted early on.

Nigel Tufnel
10-07-2008, 04:27 PM
That doesn't change the fact that Barack has just been exposed as a liar. He will be the next American President.

I'm completely undecided about who I'm going to vote for....but the one thing I do know is this....this sentence just doesn't get me too worked up. Politicians....exposed as liars? Is that supposed to be some kind of news flash...hell, I'm looking for the politician who isn't a liar and I'm never going to find one. Maybe I'm not indicative of the normal undecided independent....but this just doesn't bother me. I do not believe that Barrack Obama is a terrorist or is/was involved in any type of conspiracy against our country. And so now I learn that he has lied about something....doesn't change my opinion...I'm just going to have to sit back tonight and see who I believe tackles the issues better.

Honestly, Snipe, I respect you....you act like a politician being exposed as a liar is a big deal....find me the politician who isn't a liar and then you will have done an amazing thing.

PM Thor
10-07-2008, 04:42 PM
All Obama has to do is stay on target with the economy, and he wins.

This muckraking by the McCain camp is not going to do a damn thing to win him the election, even if it is true or not.

Snipe
10-07-2008, 04:48 PM
You make a good point Nigel.

The fact that his lie was recently exposed is a new item. It isn't just the lie; it is that he has a much more extensive relationship with Ayers than he previously admitted to having.

I do not believe that Barack is a terrorist either. I think it comes out more down ideological lines. Ayers hates America in many ways. He likes to go down to Venezuela and party with Hugo Chavez. Ayers thinks that America got what was coming to her on 9/11. His views on 9/11 are very similar to Jeremiah Wright, the radical pastor who said that our chickens were coming home to roost.

Ayers and Wright were both influential to Obama and they were/are influential in Chicago politics. You could make an easy case that Barack would not be where he is without these men. Ayers comes from a wealthy family and he is deeply connected to the Chicago political machine. Obama kicked off his career with a fundraiser at Ayers house with their wealthy and connected leftist friends. That is what fundraisers are all about. And Wright gave him the street cred. He needed both those guys.

When you look behind the veil of Barack Obama you have some pretty controversial figures, and those people don't have an ideology anything close to mainstream. It makes me wonder how Barack really feels about the issues. I don't think many people have a clue as to who the real Barack Obama really is.

Snipe
10-07-2008, 04:53 PM
All Obama has to do is stay on target with the economy, and he wins.

This muckraking by the McCain camp is not going to do a damn thing to win him the election, even if it is true or not.

Obama has the election in the bag. McCain is a loser.

It is true though. I think CNN did a good job of exposing some of it. It is still good to know so we can have an idea of what is coming.

Nigel Tufnel
10-07-2008, 05:07 PM
You make a good point Nigel.

The fact that his lie was recently exposed is a new item. It isn't just the lie, it is that he has a much more extensive relationship with Ayers than he previously admitted to having.

I do not believe that Barack is a terrorist either. I think it comes out more down ideological lines. Ayers hates America in many ways. He likes to go down to Venezuala and party with Hugo Chavez. Ayers thinks that America got what was coming to her on 9/11. His views on 9/11 are very similar to Jerimaih Wright, the radical pastor who said that are chickens were coming home to roost.

Ayers and Wright were both influential to Obama and they were/are influential in Chicago politics. You could make an easy case that Barack would not be where he is without these men. Ayers comes from a wealthy family and he is deeply connected to the Chicago political machine. Obama kicked off his career with a fundraiser at Ayers house with their wealthy and connected leftist friends. That is what fundraisers are all about. And Wright gave him the street cred. He needed both those guys.

When you look behind the veil of Barack Obama you have some pretty controversial figures, and those people don't have an ideology anything close to mainstream. It makes me wonder how Barack really feels about the issues. I don't think many people have a clue as to who the real Barack Obama really is.

Fair enough.....good points. If Obama wins, I guess we'll find out.

Raoul Duke
10-07-2008, 06:19 PM
Honestly, Snipe, I respect you....you act like a politician being exposed as a liar is a big deal....find me the politician who isn't a liar and then you will have done an amazing thing.

Good point, Nigel. Reminds me of Ben Stein on Nixon. From The Spectator (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8242):


Can anyone even remember now what Nixon did that was so terrible? He ended the war in Vietnam, brought home the POW's, ended the war in the Mideast, opened relations with China, started the first nuclear weapons reduction treaty, saved Eretz Israel's life, started the Environmental Protection Administration. Does anyone remember what he did that was bad?

Oh, now I remember. He lied. He was a politician who lied. How remarkable. He lied to protect his subordinates who were covering up a ridiculous burglary that no one to this date has any clue about its purpose. He lied so he could stay in office and keep his agenda of peace going. That was his crime. He was a peacemaker and he wanted to make a world where there was a generation of peace. And he succeeded.

That is his legacy. He was a peacemaker. He was a lying, conniving, covering up peacemaker. He was not a lying, conniving drug addict like JFK, a lying, conniving war starter like LBJ, a lying, conniving seducer like Clinton -- a lying, conniving peacemaker. That is Nixon's kharma.

Not saying I agree or disagree with Stein on the merits, but he has a point that politicians are all liars.

Snipe
10-07-2008, 06:39 PM
I love Ben Stein.

Snipe
10-10-2008, 02:55 AM
Link (http://politicallydrunk.blogspot.com/)

Barack Obama was a member of the socialist New Party. Is it news to anyone that Barack Obama is a socialist?

ATL Muskie
10-10-2008, 09:52 AM
40 years ago W was an alcoholic drug user. Just sayin.....

Snipe
10-10-2008, 10:59 AM
I am not a big fan of George Bush, and I have no idea what relevance that could possibly have to the debate. Obama was a member of a socialist party in the last decade. If J Edgar Hoover really liked to wear women's clothing or W did cocaine when he was young it doesn't make Obama any less of a socialist. You might even point out that some of the founding fathers held slaves, just saying.

DC Muskie
10-10-2008, 11:36 AM
I like how a site called "Politically Drunk" is now the source of truth.

25 days until this socialist is elected president, Snipe. You might want to start packing.

ATL Muskie
10-10-2008, 11:52 AM
I am not a big fan of George Bush, and I have no idea what relevance that could possibly have to the debate. Obama was a member of a socialist party in the last decade. If J Edgar Hoover really liked to wear women's clothing or W did cocaine when he was young it doesn't make Obama any less of a socialist. You might even point out that some of the founding fathers held slaves, just saying.

It's relevant in that you guys are bitching about something that happened 40 yrs ago. Look, I'm not an Obama supporter, but if we're going to spend time on who this guy might or might not have known 40 years ago while there are much bigger problems going on in the world, then, well, that's pretty freaking sad.

Snipe
10-10-2008, 11:57 AM
DC,

That was the first site that found the New Party connenction. I cited them I guess because they deserve it. The proof is provided by the socialist party themselves if you read the link.

I will give you Obama's own words from one of his books if you don't like my first example. Upon getting a job in corporate America, Barack would go to work seeing himself "like a spy behind enemy lines".

DC, you tell me who the enemy is. How bout I tell you: Corporations. Corporations are the big bad evil enemy. That is what he thinks. That is a socialist, and those are his own words.

It is hard to argue based on the evidence. This is not your standard Democratic Party candidate in any respect. Clinton and Carter were moderate southern Democrats. Barack Obama is a socialist. Change is coming.

DC Muskie
10-10-2008, 12:37 PM
I have a hard time following your logic sometimes Snipe.

So corporations are not the evil enemy? Or is it government? Or is it Barack Obama?

Please provide me in order, who the enemies of me are. I want to be able to carry around a card.

Does anything bring you happiness? You better start running for office then, if there are big bad socialists about to run the country.

Snipe
10-10-2008, 01:25 PM
I don't think corporations are the evil enemy. Corporations give me my most prized material possessions. The computer I am posting this message from was made by the good people at corporations. My TV, my car, all around me I see great products produced not by government but by wonderful corporations. Without them our standard of living would fall dramatically.

Barack got out of school and got a job in Manhattan. Bright future for that kid. But he saw himself as working for the enemy, as "a spy behind enemy lines". That is a quite telling quote and I know you have the logic to figure it out. The enemy for Barack is corporations and capitalism.

DC Muskie
10-10-2008, 02:39 PM
I don't think corporations are the evil enemy. Corporations give me my most prized material possessions. The computer I am posting this message from was made by the good people at corporations. My TV, my car, all around me I see great products produced not by government but by wonderful corporations. Without them our standard of living would fall dramatically.

Barack got out of school and got a job in Manhattan. Bright future for that kid. But he saw himself as working for the enemy, as "a spy behind enemy lines". That is a quite telling quote and I know you have the logic to figure it out. The enemy for Barack is corporations and capitalism.

See what I think it is, Barack, who came from nothing, wanted to see how the rich, white folk worked, and use that knowledge to help, poor black folk. Poor black folk who actually made those TV's, cars, and computers for you. Supported by unions, unions who brought you the weekend, benefits and prevented you from having to work along side children.

That's what I think.

Smails
10-10-2008, 02:45 PM
See what I think it is, Barack, who came from nothing, wanted to see how the rich, white folk worked, and use that knowledge to help, poor black folk. Poor black folk who actually made those TV's, cars, and computers for you. Supported by unions, unions who brought you the weekend, benefits and prevented you from having to work along side children.

That's what I think.


I didn't know that manufacturing jobs were exclusive to 'poor black folk.' I think my grandfather and uncles would disagree.

Barak Obama is just as white as he is black.

DC Muskie
10-10-2008, 02:54 PM
I didn't know that manufacturing jobs were exclusive to 'poor black folk.' I think my grandfather and uncles would disagree.

Barak Obama is just as white as he is black.

I never said they were exclusive either. I'm sure my grandfather would disagree with your assertion that they are as well.

And it is true that Barack is just as black as he is white. I agree with that.

Snipe
10-10-2008, 02:59 PM
See what I think it is, Barack, who came from nothing, wanted to see how the rich, white folk worked, and use that knowledge to help, poor black folk. Poor black folk who actually made those TV's, cars, and computers for you. Supported by unions, unions who brought you the weekend, benefits and prevented you from having to work along side children.

That's what I think.

Barack didn't work for a manufacturing firm. You know my answer. When Barack says that he felt like a "spy behind enemy lines" while working for a corporation, who do you think the enemy is?

Are the rich white folk working against the poor black folk in your estimation?

DC Muskie
10-10-2008, 03:17 PM
Barack didn't work for a manufacturing firm. You know my answer. When Barack says that he felt like a "spy behind enemy lines" while working for a corporation, who do you think the enemy is?

Bill Ayers?


Are the rich white folk working against the poor black folk in your estimation?

I'm not sure, but I don't know too many rich black folks who own apartments rented out by poor white folks. Maybe they are out there. I've never seen them.

Snipe
10-10-2008, 03:37 PM
Well if that isn't a shot across the bow.

I provide housing to people at good value. I do this without any govenrment subsidy or claim upon your private property. Housing is a basic need and I work to provide that for many people. Perhaps you think the government should be doing my job instead. My tenants would beg to differ. They don't want to live in a government project or live next to government housing. They value and appreciate the services that I offer. If they didn't I would be out of business.

I didn't know I was exploiting the poor and downtrodden. All this time I thought I was providing a valuable service. If that was Obama was getting at in his quote he is even less appealing to me.

DC Muskie
10-10-2008, 03:41 PM
Well if that isn't a shot across the bow.

I provide housing to people at good value. I do this without any govenrment subsidy or claim upon your private property. Housing is a basic need and I work to provide that for many people. Perhaps you think the government should be doing my job instead. My tenants would beg to differ. They don't want to live in a government project or live next to government housing. They value and appreciate the services that I offer. If they didn't I would be out of business.

I didn't know I was exploiting the poor and downtrodden. All this time I thought I was providing a valuable service. If that was Obama was getting at in his quote he is even less appealing to me.

I wasn't accusing you of anything. Sorry it was just something that came to me. Really.

Have a good weekend. I'm out.

Emp
10-15-2008, 12:17 PM
They don't want to live in a government project or live next to government housing.

Ask 100 people what THAT means. Nice code.

Strange Brew
10-15-2008, 12:23 PM
They don't want to live in a government project or live next to government housing.

Ask 100 people what THAT means. Nice code.

I'm assuming that you believe that statement is code for African Americans right? I don't think that it was Snipe intended but that is how you seem to see it, i.e. gov't projects and housing is filled with African Americans. So, who then is the racist?

DAllen15
10-15-2008, 12:40 PM
About that "association with known terrorist"--

http://http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/10/ayers_alone_did_not_launch_oba.html

http://http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-zorn-14-oct14,0,4194430.column



This is very, very close to McCarthyism at its worst. McCain should be ashamed of his campaign taking this tack.

DC Muskie
10-15-2008, 12:42 PM
Your links don't work Allen.

DAllen15
10-15-2008, 12:49 PM
You're correct, but I can't figure out why they're not working.

The Artist
10-15-2008, 12:56 PM
take out one of the two http:// in each

The Artist
10-15-2008, 01:03 PM
I'm writing in Bill Ayers as my presidential vote.

Kahns Krazy
10-15-2008, 01:25 PM
They don't want to live in a government project or live next to government housing.

Ask 100 people what THAT means. Nice code.

Maybe it is because I know Snipe, know who he rents to and know the environment he's working in, but this struck me as the most ridiculous stretch of the race card I have ever seen.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this that you misread or misstated something, because if not, I don't like what your comment says about you.

I can tell you, with 100% certainty, what that is code for. It's code for people that don't want to live in a government project or live next to government housing. It's some of the worst code I have ever seen. If you need a secret decoder ring, simply substitute each letter for the exact same letter. The only worse code I can imagine is a code that substitues worse words for the actual words. Like making "super fat roasted pig with apple in her mouth" code for "full figured".

For many of the people that Snipe rents to, government housing and private housing next to government housing represents a significant portion of their affordable housing options. Snipe offers another one. As long as I have know him, I have never known him to compel anyone to live in one of his rental units against their wishes.

I don't know the racial composition of Snipe's tenants, but I can tell you, again with 100% certainty, that they are not all white or all black.

I own a house that I rent out. It's not much bigger than an apartment. People that rent my house tend to do so because they don't want to live in an apartment building. That is not code for anything. It is a preference.

XU 87
10-15-2008, 01:26 PM
They don't want to live in a government project or live next to government housing.

Ask 100 people what THAT means. Nice code.

Here's some news for you, but you already know this. When you have government housing projects or section 8 housing, you usually also have associated crime and other problems. And it's not only African Americans who are in section 8 housing. But if you don't believe me, go ask the people in Colerain or Price Hill who are complaining about all of the section 8 housing in their neighborhoods and the crime and other associated problems that go with it.. Or go ask the guy in Memphis who found that the most rampant crime was in the neighborhoods with section 8 housing.

You see, people don't like to live next to crime. People don't like to raise kids next to crime. But some people try to talk about the problem and actually try do something about the problem. And then people like you resort to calling them racists. And you do so because it's your only way to shut up facts and opinions that you find distasteful.

My guess is you're one of these people who claims to be for free speech and great debate. The only problem is that you're only for free speech that you agree with. All other people should be called racists and be forced to shut up.

Snipe
10-15-2008, 01:34 PM
They don't want to live in a government project or live next to government housing.

Ask 100 people what THAT means. Nice code.


I'm assuming that you believe that statement is code for African Americans right? I don't think that it was Snipe intended but that is how you seem to see it, i.e. gov't projects and housing is filled with African Americans. So, who then is the racist?

I am with Brew.

For the record over 80% of my tenants are African American (they call themselves black).

And guess what, from my experience the black people that I know don't want to live in a government project or live next to government housing.

That makes me a racist? I will now add the words "Government Project" and "Government Housing" to the Xavierhoops speech code. These words can now only be used by liberals and only then when they are used in a favorable light. To use these words you now have to be a card carrying member of the ACLU or at least have the tacit approval of DC Muskie.

I really have to watch my code around this place. You and DC are going to lynch me.

Fred Garvin
10-15-2008, 01:38 PM
This is very, very close to McCarthyism at its worst. McCain should be ashamed of his campaign taking this tack.

Give this guy a prize for being the first liberal to mention the McCarthyism.

Fred Garvin
10-15-2008, 01:39 PM
I'm writing in Bill Ayers as my presidential vote.

yawwwwwwwwwwwwwn.

XU 87
10-15-2008, 01:40 PM
Snipe, I disagreee with you on one thing. DC Muskie doesn't resort to the bullshit that Emperor does and just did.

Fred Garvin
10-15-2008, 01:45 PM
For the record over 80% of my tenants are African American (they call themselves black).



"(they call themselves black)." That is funny.

DC Muskie
10-15-2008, 03:00 PM
This thread is starting to look like the song, "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist."

MADXSTER
10-15-2008, 03:27 PM
http://www.pandora.ca/pictures28/250062.jpg