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GuyFawkes38
07-13-2008, 06:41 PM
The House of Smack seems kind of quiet. So I might as well start a thread.

I'm not talking about agnostics (who I particularly like because they are humble).

Anyone who labels themselves as an "atheist" is typically a sad, depressing, joyless person to be around.

Take this popular blogger as evidence:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/its_a_goddamned_cracker.php

The comments are awful too.

I love living in such a democratic, pluralistic country. But sometimes, living in such a country, leads us to believe that we shouldn't talk about the importance of religion in the public sphere (because it would be a tragedy to demoralize the atheist). But I have no problem demoralizing atheist. The bottom line: atheist need religion.

Stonebreaker
07-13-2008, 06:49 PM
They have the environment. It's become a quasi-religion to some.

GuyFawkes38
07-13-2008, 06:57 PM
They have the environment. It's become a quasi-religion to some.

Yet, environmentalist (and atheist), have difficulties confronting the ultimate question of humanity, death.

They talk about some type of hippy B.S. about becoming part of the whole. Whatever the hell that means.

AdamtheFlyer
07-13-2008, 07:49 PM
I don't like people that push their beliefs on others without being asked. To me all aspects of religion are personal.

GuyFawkes38
07-13-2008, 08:04 PM
I don't like people that push their beliefs on others without being asked. To me all aspects of religion are personal.


I understand where your coming from.

Yet (and I guess this is the ardent Catholic coming out of me) I disagree. It's really important for religion to be communal. Going to church is an important event for a community. There should be societal/family pressure to be religious.

vee4xu
07-13-2008, 08:28 PM
Yet, environmentalist (and atheist), have difficulties confronting the ultimate question of humanity, death.

They talk about some type of hippy B.S. about becoming part of the whole. Whatever the hell that means.

Did you mean becoming part of a "hole".
:)

I love this country because it allows us to believe whatever we want to believe. In regards to atheists, I would simply ask if they believe in cause-and-effect. If so, then I would ask them what the first cause of the universe's exisitence is. Science can only take the existence of all things to some beginning point. There has to be some source of the beginning of the beginning. That beginning I believe is God.

Juice
07-13-2008, 10:10 PM
I don't like people that push their beliefs on others without being asked. To me all aspects of religion are personal.

I find atheists to be more pushy than Catholics or in a larger sense Christians. The pushiest of them all are Muslims.

The Artist
07-14-2008, 07:54 AM
Did you mean becoming part of a "hole".
:)

I love this country because it allows us to believe whatever we want to believe. In regards to atheists, I would simply ask if they believe in cause-and-effect. If so, then I would ask them what the first cause of the universe's exisitence is. Science can only take the existence of all things to some beginning point. There has to be some source of the beginning of the beginning. That beginning I believe is God.

I don't know a ton about atheists, but the impression that I get is that they would agree with you, except they wouldn't capitalize the G in "God".

Kahns Krazy
07-14-2008, 10:33 AM
I find atheists to be more pushy than Catholics or in a larger sense Christians. The pushiest of them all are Muslims.


In my experience, you can replace "Muslims" with "Crossroads Members".

No, I don't want to sponsor your trip to Africa.

xeus
07-14-2008, 12:13 PM
In my experience, you can replace "Muslims" with "Crossroads Members".

No, I don't want to sponsor your trip to Africa.

Would you consider sponsoring my "mission trip" to Puerto Rico in late November?

Emp
07-14-2008, 02:28 PM
Full bore atheist. Yet full bore Christian ethicist. I perversely believe that Jesus Christ, if he actually existed and said the things attributed to him several hundred years after the fact, was quite a moral compass. That good samaratan thing, brother's keeper, the beatitudes, all that first principles "crap."

Nice stereotyping here, though. Of course all atheists must be sort of alike, and conform to preconceptions that make it easy to dismiss. Like blacks, immigrants. Cf current New Yorker cover.

We're all environmentalists. It's why folks move to the suburbs, attend Xavier...improving personal environments. I believe what some of you hate is that tendency of some environmentalists to want to look at the ( oh my non-existent-god) "inconvenient" long term and global consequences to environments larger than the inside of one's home or SUV. Personally, I just hate it when I try to go for a walk, run, bike ride and the air is so polluted I have to flee back into the air conditioned environment powered by high sulphur coal plants. Sorry but it just makes me think about the actual cost. Oh, and when someone else I know personally in Cincinnati gets cancer, it inconveniently reminds me of the very high incidence of cancer in our area. Some may argue that it is the high incidence of Christians or Republicans in the environment, but I doubt it.

Constituting 4% of the population of the earth and burning 25% of its energy just can't go on...but surprisingly, the market is finally teaching us that each time we fill up, pay our water and sewer bill, and look at the gas and electric bill.

Kahns Krazy
07-14-2008, 03:08 PM
Full bore atheist. Yet full bore Christian ethicist. I perversely believe that Jesus Christ, if he actually existed and said the things attributed to him several hundred years after the fact, was quite a moral compass. That good samaratan thing, brother's keeper, the beatitudes, all that first principles blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah .

I don't know if this has anything to do with you being an atheist, but self important rants are something I think the world can do without.

I sure hope you walked to work today and planted a tree along the way.

Fred Garvin
07-14-2008, 08:17 PM
this post has been deleted due to inappropriate content.

GuyFawkes38
07-14-2008, 09:06 PM
this post has been deleted due to inappropriate content.

Ha.

And may I add that just because I started the thread doesn't mean I agree with every reply.

AdamtheFlyer
07-14-2008, 09:27 PM
I understand where your coming from.

Yet (and I guess this is the ardent Catholic coming out of me) I disagree. It's really important for religion to be communal. Going to church is an important event for a community. There should be societal/family pressure to be religious.

I get your overall point. I don't disagree.

But I disagree with the last sentence. We should be pressing people to open up and learn as much as possible. About science, religion, human behavior, politics, or why the sky is blue. Never stop asking "Why?". Education is the foundation of a good society. Converting that knowledge to a belief or faith is up to the individual. I do not believe in pressing someone to a particular faith.

The Artist
07-14-2008, 10:16 PM
I really want to know what Fred said now.

GuyFawkes38
07-14-2008, 10:40 PM
I do not believe in pressing someone to a particular faith.


Certainly some balance has to be struck.

But I do think there are deep, profound rewards to belonging to a family/community with similar religious beliefs. And I think it would be a healthy thing for my father/family/friends to be concerned for me if I suddenly became Hindu.

And if I suddenly became Hindu or even a protestant, I think it would put strain on my family and some friends and myself. And that would be a natural development.

We are social creatures (and that is one aspect of the Catholic faith which I find more convincing than the more individualistic Protestant faith).

Edit: I do want to add that even as a Catholic, there are aspects of Protestantism which I find more convincing than Catholicism.

Emp
07-15-2008, 11:22 AM
I don't know if this has anything to do with you being an atheist, but self important rants are something I think the world can do without.

I sure hope you walked to work today and planted a tree along the way.

That's so Christian of you. Thank you for being so catholic in your outlook.

And you will know we are Christian by our love...

Fred Garvin
07-15-2008, 06:26 PM
this post has been deleted due to inappropriate content.

nuts4xu
07-15-2008, 07:15 PM
this post has been deleted due to inappropriate content.

FREE FRED GARVIN!!

sweet16
07-25-2008, 02:51 PM
I understand where your coming from.

Yet (and I guess this is the ardent Catholic coming out of me) I disagree. It's really important for religion to be communal. Going to church is an important event for a community. There should be societal/family pressure to be religious.

I don't like people who don't know the difference between "your" and "you're".

Billy
07-25-2008, 04:07 PM
There should be societal/family pressure to be religious.

Why? Seriously, what's you're rationale for that statement? What are the dire consequences for those who don't subscribe to your line of thinking? Not that you are the only one that thinks this way...but no one ever provides statistical data to PROVE that the "Godless" are somehow a global menace.

It's very difficult (perhaps impossible) to make an argument that secular societies are more prone to start wars, for example. In fact, the converse is true.

I was raised Catholic...but I won't lie, the older I get the smarter I think I get. I think that's true for most of us. And yet, I also struggle more and more with faith as I get older. I'm certainly not here to trample on those that are 100% sure they know what's going on. I hope you are right, and there will be an ultimate reward for leading a decent life.

But statements like yours, Guy, are what turns people like myself off to the "community" you are calling me to. This why people like me just sort of want to sleep in on Sunday and make private decisions about God.

DC Muskie
07-25-2008, 04:35 PM
And yet, I also struggle more and more with faith as I get older.

Same here. I'd like to think of it as a funk. They say this is time when you get into a funk, and one way to get out of it is when you have kids.

At this rate, my funk will last about another 30 years.

vee4xu
07-27-2008, 02:30 PM
It is good that we struggle with faith. Othewise we become like the fundamentalists who believe in God and the Bible literally and without prodding and poking. It is easy to say one believes in God and to do so simply because someone else says that you have to, or because thinking of the alternative is not an option.

The best test of one's faith is doubt. The key is to never giving up seeking faith. The journey ebbs-and-flows. One day we think that God is walking side-by-side with us and on other days we fear the darkness of death. It is our humanity that puts us in these positions. Yet, it is faith in the Holy Spirit and prayer that allow us to realize the connection between Jesus and God the Father.

If I may, here are two books that are good for those of us struggling daily with faith.

How to Think About God - Mortimer Adler

A Believer's Search for the Jesus of History - Phillip J. Cunningham, C.S.P.

These books are polar opposites to the same end. Adler was an aethist who later became Methodist and finally Catholic. He is arguably one of the most intelligent human beings of the 20th century. Cunningham uses biblical passages to test the validity of Jesus' life, death and ressurection.

In the end, there really is no proof that Jesus is God. One can make a case for such a claim, but it is faith that brings us to this conclusion and faith that gives us hope in the reality of God, heaven and eternal life. Even the saints were uncertain of God's existence at certain times of their lives. But, whenever the tests came, they were up to the challenge. There were no apparitions, no fireworks and no other outward signals that brought the saints back to God in times of doubt. Rather, it was prayer and a deep faith that there is more to living for humans than simply being born, dying and becoming part of the earth.

Good luck in your repsective journey's.

nuts4xu
07-27-2008, 06:39 PM
http://rhorn.unixcab.org/images/JesusLovesYou.gif

Emp
07-30-2008, 02:08 PM
this post has been deleted due to inappropriate content.

FREE FRED GARVIN!!


this post has been deleted due to inappropriate content.

It's a slow day...I hadn't looked at this thread in a while. It's saying something when "Jesus loves you ... but I think you're a cunt" stays up, and two other posts get censored. Whoa!

Since the shotgun shootings at a children's performance in a "too liberal" Tenn church, under the righteous justification of the fundamentalist sword/gun, I have a fresher perspective on all of this.

On communal living (Nuts, you commie!): check out if you can the documentary film The Singing Revolution. The tradition of communal singing is inspiring on its own level, and then employed for a legitimate political purpose: getting the oppressive soviets off their backs and out of their country. No need for "God on our side", just doing the right thing, the right way, all together.

Fred Garvin
07-30-2008, 09:25 PM
this post has been deleted due to inappropriate content.

xeus
07-30-2008, 09:49 PM
this post has been deleted due to inappropriate content.

Stonebreaker
07-30-2008, 10:21 PM
This post has been edited due to lack of interesting content.

Tardy Turtle
07-31-2008, 08:01 AM
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/hund-pepsi.jpg

GuyFawkes38
08-03-2008, 10:57 PM
Why? Seriously, what's you're rationale for that statement? What are the dire consequences for those who don't subscribe to your line of thinking? Not that you are the only one that thinks this way...but no one ever provides statistical data to PROVE that the "Godless" are somehow a global menace.

I've been gone for a while. Hence my delayed response.

Anyways, I'm very attracted to libertarianism in the political sphere and how it deals with economic man. I don't doubt that countries that produce individuals who can take of themselves are the happiest on earth.

Yet, I also believe that man desperately needs God, religion, and family. I like the analogy of The Church as a mother. Certainly mankind is reliant on such relationships.

Of course, one can choose to live their life without the support system of religion. But it's tough for me to imagine how that kind of life would deal with THE BIG QUESTIONS. And it's more than freeing to admit that you can't deal with such questions alone. And I think you need more than family and friends to deal with those questions.

GuyFawkes38
08-03-2008, 11:07 PM
It's very difficult (perhaps impossible) to make an argument that secular societies are more prone to start wars, for example. In fact, the converse is true.

I don't think religion should always be viewed from a practical point of view. That would be nihilistic. It's making a judgment from one's subjective criteria (what a mess many scholars get in when they try to count the deaths from religion vs. secularism).

I view Catholicism as a gift. It's truth. It's not something to improve my life or increase my prosperity.