Addendum to recruiting warning

[wkrq59]

A friend who used to work for the NCAA and still keeps close contacts with the office in Indianapolis tells me that the enforcement police there are extremely sensitive about "Representatives of the university's athletic interests" as boosters are still sometimes called. You need not be a graduate of a school or even have attended said school. If you are a season-ticket holder or even just someone who is known to have contributed in any way to the schools' sports programs, you ARE PROHIBITED FROM HAVING ANY CONTACT WITH A PROSPECTIVE STUDENT ATHLETE--AKA RECRUIT.
Seriously, the best way to avoid making any problems for Xavier is avoid all contact of any kind with recruits. They're even cracking down on so-called "bumps," where an alum or booster (especially wearing school logo apparel) has conversations with players at AAU games, even at summer league games such as Deveroes. :mad:

[kyxu]

A friend who used to work for the NCAA and still keeps close contacts with the office in Indianapolis tells me that the enforcement police there are extremely sensitive about "Representatives of the university's athletic interests" as boosters are still sometimes called. You need not be a graduate of a school or even have attended said school. If you are a season-ticket holder or even just someone who is known to have contributed in any way to the schools' sports programs, you ARE PROHIBITED FROM HAVING ANY CONTACT WITH A PROSPECTIVE STUDENT ATHLETE--AKA RECRUIT.
Seriously, the best way to avoid making any problems for Xavier is avoid all contact of any kind with recruits. They're even cracking down on so-called "bumps," where an alum or booster (especially wearing school logo apparel) has conversations with players at AAU games, even at summer league games such as Deveroes. :mad:

No offense to anyone, but is this that hard to avoid??? I've never even been to an AAU game, let alone had to suppress some impulse to go up and talk to a 16-17 year old kid I didn't know.

[wkrq59]

Yeah, KY it is, because the NCAA has cited cases where so-called boosters have been seen talking to the parents or "uncles" of kids at games. This was especially true of OJ Mayo's "relative" or guardian when he played at North College Hill.:mad:

[kyxu]

Yeah, KY it is, because the NCAA has cited cases where so-called boosters have been seen talking to the parents or "uncles" of kids at games. This was especially true of OJ Mayo's "relative" or guardian when he played at North College Hill.:mad:

Ok...but have any charges been leveled against said schools and boosters? Did Mayo lose his eligibility? Not all violations are created equal, I presume. I could be missing something of what you're saying, Q, I just don't see the problem. Maybe it's just me. I guess I'm not gregarious enough to just strike up conversations at games with people I don't know. Unless of course they're buying me a beer because of my "delicate features".

[Muskie]

UK and Tenn have both had issues (but were from self-reported incidents).

[xeus]

Talking to a kid at a summer league game can't be an NCAA violation because at that point they are enrolled students - not recruits - right?

[Muskie]

As far as i know yes. Although I'm not sure if it's the fact that they've signed scholarship papers or whether they actually have to be enrolled.

[wkrq59]

Ok...but have any charges been leveled against said schools and boosters? Did Mayo lose his eligibility? Not all violations are created equal, I presume. I could be missing something of what you're saying, Q, I just don't see the problem. Maybe it's just me. I guess I'm not gregarious enough to just strike up conversations at games with people I don't know. Unless of course they're buying me a beer because of my "delicate features".
It's not that you are not gregarious enough, it's that you aren't devious enough. That's why it used to be called the "bump" rule because you could legally bump into a kid if you were a coach or a booster.
A lot of inadvertent contact is easy enough to avoid. Just don't approach the kids. But people who honestly don't have any idea what the rules are and what they can and can not do, rush headlong into a situation and accidentally put their school at risk. As far as I know there were never any official inquiries into the recruiting of OJ or of Bill Walker, but you can bet the schools that signed them as well as the athletes themselves were really and thoroughly grilled by someone from the NCAA.
There was a story that circulated back when the Southwestern Conference existed before many of its members merged with the Big 8. It was said that it was very hard to cheat in the SWC (which we know wasn't really true because SMU got the only death penalty ever administered by the NCAA while Texas A&M and its fb and bkb coaches got off scott free) because every member of the conference would turn every other member in to the NCAA just to make sure they couldn't cheat.
It is very easy to accidentally break an NCAA rule. I used to do it all the time and I knew (or at least cursively knew) the NCAA rules--Example. Player A is walking home from the Gardens. I've finished writing and filing a story and driving out of the parking lot when I see player A. I'm an alumnus of the same school he plays for. I offer him a lift back to school. He gets in and is surprised when I ask him to put a dollar on the dashboard. And he is even more surprised when I ask him when we got to the dorm to pick up the dollar which had fallen to the floor. It wasn't my dollar. This is what I was advised to do--make my car a vehicle for hire--and then I could give the kid a ride. Of course I never kept the damn dollar, but he could say if asked that I charged him.
Incidentally, I did the same thing for UC and Xavier and when they were in town FSU players (three) when UC played at the Coliseum. I did this on the advice of a lawyer who had been a member of the NCAA enforcement staff, because I told him I'd be damned if I'd let any kid walk back to school from an arena and in the case of the FSU kids, I took them back to a downtown hotel because the three of them were waiting for a cab to come by in 10 degree weather. They were dressed for Florida weather, too.
I know it's a cliche, but the best rule to follow is "when in doubt, don't"

[DC Muskie]

Q-

I have to ask...

After games the school doesn't make sure it's players get back to campus, or their hotels? Are they left to wonder around looking for a ride?

I never heard of that.

I'm with ky...I always joke that I would go to Montrose Christian and wear my Xavier gear and basically tell every kid to come to Xavier. I know that is illegal, and plus, I really don't want to be the guy who stalks high school basketball games. It's bad enough I don't have a girlfriend.

[Muskie]

Q-

I have to ask...

After games the school doesn't make sure it's players get back to campus, or their hotels? Are they left to wonder around looking for a ride?

I never heard of that.

I'm with ky...I always joke that I would go to Montrose Christian and wear my Xavier gear and basically tell every kid to come to Xavier. I know that is illegal, and plus, I really don't want to be the guy who stalks high school basketball games. It's bad enough I don't have a girlfriend.


I know that Purdue was investigated once for an Assistant giving a recruit a ride home after a game back in the 80's. I'm sure it's happened since then, but that was the one I thought of off the top of my head.

[DC Muskie]

That's just weird.

"Alright guys, good game, make sure you shower up, get dressed and get home. Remember we'd take you ourselves, but that is a violation. Maybe there's a reporter who can give you a lift."

[wkrq59]

After games the school doesn't make sure it's players get back to campus, or their hotels? Are they left to wonder around looking for a ride?
I never heard of that.--DC Muskie.
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Yes, of course they USUALLY DO. But the cases I cited occurred when Tyrone Hill was kept OT for several TV interviews after a game and missed the shuttle back to campus. As an alumnus and deemed by the NCAA a representative of the university's athletic interests because I was also a reporter covering the games, I could not legitimately give him a ride. I checked afterwards. I was told it was OK because I had charged him--however small the fee--for the ride. But I was also told I could have lost my insurance coverage for turning my vehicle into one for hire without notifying my insurance company.
The Florida State kids were all given money to take cabs from the Coliseum to the then Clarion Hotel. A certain number of cabs were called and the three players who missed the cabs were late getting dressed and down to the street. I was not going to see three kids standing there in the snow and cold and wait for a cab that would never come. They were also locked out of the Coliseum which had closed. Yeah, they were slow, but leave 'em, no. The same thing happened to two UC players in Tallahassee Florida . And to two other Xavier players in Chicago at that old building quite far from the hotel.
I wasn't the one who gave them the ride that night, but I was with the reporter from the Sun-Times who did.
As Mr. Myagi says, "Things not always as seem, Daniel San.":D

[cinskyline]

Speaking of recruiting, if you have extra time on your hands, you may want to check out this link:

http://web.knoxnews.com/pdf/042608ut_sec2.pdf (this is a pdf file--- about 4 MB)

Tennessee women's coach Pat Summitt recently turned in UConn for alleged recruiting violations and that link is the 37 page report. Some of the stuff they turned them in for was quite surprising (the last 10 or so pages are message board posts). Most of the stuff was pretty minor, but some included fans who were becoming a little too involved with the recruiting process.

Bottom line is-- it's best not to even acknowledge prospective recruits!

[D-West & PO-Z]

This is ridiculous. 99.9% of us will never ever come into contact with any prospective XU recruits. I dont hang around AAU gyms, I dont go looking to talk to 17 year old kids. Can any of you really say, besides Q, that you could look into the past and think of a situation where you broke an NCAA rule involving an XU recruit?

[DC Muskie]

Q-

I don't know why, but that is funny to me. Good stuff. I just can't imagine being a coach and leave transportation to and from a game to my players.

[DC Muskie]

By the way, are we in trouble when a kid visits campus and gets stopped by everyone telling him to come to Xavier? Or when the students chant the kid's name?

What if the kid works at a restaurant where I work and collects the tips I leave for him. Does that get me in trouble?

I understand a lot of this, it's just you could come up with some funny stuff, like Q taxing college kids all around Cincinnati.

[wkrq59]

DC,
I cited the instances to show how things can accidentally happen under the best of circumstances. Xavier, Cincinnati, and I know Florida State makes sure players have a way back to school or to the hotel on the road after a game at an off-campus site as happened with Tyrone.
I cite the instances to show that even schools like Xavier, can inadvertently have something accidentally happen.
Ever since I waded through the reasons for UC's three-year probation back in the late 70s and loss of LaSalle Thompson and the follies of Wendel Gale Catlett, I have been very careful. Three years with no post season tournaments can really screw the recruiting pooch.
There are so damn many NCAA rules and so many coaches trying to gain an edge on their contemporaries that anybody can be turned in by anybody.
I think it's neither weird nor strange that even the most conscientious coach or AD or alumnus or booster has to be extremely careful. I know I sure wouldn't want to be responsible for Xavier getting even a letter in its file or a quiet warning.:D

[Fred Garvin]

Q, did you get in the UC players' faces and demand they take off their UC sweatshirts?

[wkrq59]

Q, did you get in the UC players' faces and demand they take off their UC sweatshirts?

Actually, Fred, we were on the road and I asked them to throw the damn pot out the window or at least stop smoking it because it was making me sick. They left the weed in a baggie in the back seat and I gave it to the coach. He almost got caught throwing it under the bleachers. The security guy made him throw it in a garbage can. BTW, the two players were dismissed from the team a week later. Something to do with female companions in their rooms and accusations of rape. Maybe the check bounced. There was never a day covering that team that some serious crisis didn't erupt. I once had to fly back from Florida and vacation to cover a conference, then fly back at the paper's expense. :D

[Fred Garvin]

As far as i know yes. Although I'm not sure if it's the fact that they've signed scholarship papers or whether they actually have to be enrolled.

I read something the other day that leads me to believe they have to be enrolled. It was a recap of when Dayton went on probation. I believe a recruit's father got a loan from a booster. The recruit had already given his non-binding oral before he and the family arrived on campus. That article said they had to be enrolled.