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kmkdude
04-04-2008, 10:32 AM
http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/chickludwig/

BlueGuy
04-04-2008, 10:39 AM
As an assistant?

xavierdude
04-04-2008, 10:59 AM
As an assistant?

haha...for real

How the heck is Sean Miller and Brian Gregory being considered for the same job? That's odd. It would be pretty cool to see grant go to UD though. I like the guy (even though he went to UD, i think)...but this may give me a reason to hate him

Kahns Krazy
04-04-2008, 11:00 AM
Maybe the away-from-Dayton success of OP has lead people to realize that Dayton just sucks the good out of you, and a bubble team coach at Dayton is a valuable find.

Although I can't really put a lot of faith into a guy who claims that Marquette to IU is a step down.

XU05and07
04-04-2008, 11:18 AM
That's a good get for Marquette...if you want a guy that has a great track record of making the NIT and blowing up in the 2nd half of the season.

Marquette...baby...darling...you have had things really good lately. Just because a good coach left you for another school, doesn't mean you have to lower your standards. You're much better than that...you deserve better (and not Majerus)

Frank D.
04-04-2008, 11:18 AM
That article is just stupid. One of the main reasons this guys gives for Gregory going to Marquette is that Izzo is recommending him because Crean and Gregory were both Izzo assistants. Who cares? Why would Marquette, in their right minds, care one bit about what Tom Izzo thinks? So they hired a former Izzo assistant once and had some mild success. That means they are supposed to hire another one?

Mark 3 Pointer
04-04-2008, 11:30 AM
Can't wait for the Miller to UD banter on UD pride... that's going to be awesome!

Flyer1407
04-04-2008, 11:45 AM
Can't wait for the Miller to UD banter on UD pride... that's going to be awesome!

Because that would happen....

Gregory isn't going to Marquette and Anthony Grant isn't coming to Dayton.

dc_x
04-04-2008, 11:59 AM
It's just a rumor.

Gregory says there has been no contact. (http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/college/wsu/2008/04/04/ddn040408spcoaches.html)

Jumpy
04-04-2008, 12:01 PM
Please, God, no! If they lose Gregory, they might actually become a viable program again!

Muskie
04-04-2008, 12:12 PM
It'd be a good move for Gregory. He's obviously for whatever reason not able to get passed the "roadblock" in front of him in this conference consistently. I don't think he's nearly as awful as some of the Dayton Haters, if it pays him more I'd say do it.

ATL Muskie
04-04-2008, 12:19 PM
I would think he'd jump at the chance to get out of there b/c you know one more season of not meeting expectations and those people will have his head on a platter. OP saw the writing on the wall, and BG will too. This may be his last chance, so he'd be advised to get while the gettin' is good.

wkrq59
04-04-2008, 12:27 PM
Two things. The writer of that piece is a worse homer than Doug Harris who we all know and love. Second, he's probably spearheading the drive to get rid of Gregory, no matter what.
One thing this will do whether there is any truth to it at all, is hurt UD recruiting if it's not completed. Stay tuned.

Xpectations
04-04-2008, 01:03 PM
Perhaps Marquette believes Jimmy Binnie still has some eligibility remaining.

MHettel
04-04-2008, 02:04 PM
In the interest of whats best for XU, I don't want Gregory leaving.

It is in our interest to have the strongest A-10 possible. UD, while certainly not great, has the basics in place to get much better. Thats more than we can say about a number of other A-10 programs. Taking Gregory away would hurt UD, which would hurt the A-10, which would hurt XU.

Aside from that, I hate the idea of a school like MU taking a coach from our league. Marquette is basically us, but they won the "lotto" of getting in the BE. They have become extreme blowhards because of this, and something like this just feeds the fire.

And the article mentioned Anthony Grant to UD. Wasn't this the guy that was in line for Florida last year before Donovan reneged on his deal to Orlando? So one year Grant is a candidate to take over the 2 time defending national champs and the next year, he's gonna go to Dayton? Thats a pipe dream. Even if he did come, he'd be gone in a coupel years. How would that help UD?

Muskie
04-04-2008, 02:16 PM
Marquette is also interested in Grant. I assume that if Gregory left for UD they'd go after Brad Brownell of WSU.

AdamtheFlyer
04-04-2008, 05:04 PM
In the interest of whats best for XU, I don't want Gregory leaving.

It is in our interest to have the strongest A-10 possible. UD, while certainly not great, has the basics in place to get much better. Thats more than we can say about a number of other A-10 programs. Taking Gregory away would hurt UD, which would hurt the A-10, which would hurt XU.

Aside from that, I hate the idea of a school like MU taking a coach from our league. Marquette is basically us, but they won the "lotto" of getting in the BE. They have become extreme blowhards because of this, and something like this just feeds the fire.

And the article mentioned Anthony Grant to UD. Wasn't this the guy that was in line for Florida last year before Donovan reneged on his deal to Orlando? So one year Grant is a candidate to take over the 2 time defending national champs and the next year, he's gonna go to Dayton? Thats a pipe dream. Even if he did come, he'd be gone in a coupel years. How would that help UD?

Well, Anthony Grant played at UD and has said numerous times how much he loved the school. Dayton would be a step up from VCU and is special to him. It's logical to assume he'd be a realistic option as long as he's at VCU when/if UD comes calling.

I honestly think there's something to this. Ludwig is generally on the same path as the truth. Is Gregory "as good as gone"? Maybe, maybe not. Do I think Chick knows something we don't? Quite possible.

pizza delivery
04-04-2008, 05:17 PM
All the rage in dayton:

"Bob Knight to UD, Gregory to Marquette"

Maybe they are the center of the universe. hmm.

Masterofreality
04-04-2008, 06:26 PM
Chuckle, chuckle, Ha, HA, HAAA!!!!

Have fun Marquette with your new Mike Deane!!

The only problem is that Grant is probably better, but he's still no Sean Miller. I'll miss those tatooed cornfield stiffs that the dump recruited, though.

wkrq59
04-04-2008, 08:10 PM
Chuckle, chuckle, Ha, HA, HAAA!!!!

Have fun Marquette with your new Mike Deane!!

The only problem is that Grant is probably better, but he's still no Sean Miller. I'll miss those tatooed cornfield stiffs that the dump recruited, though.

MOR , the thing I find most interesting about Chick's piece is the reference to people on "the hill" not being too happy with Gregory or the state of the UD program. For years Chick benefitted mightly from the fact that I believe he is the son-in-law of the late Tom Frericks, who is still well thought of after all these years.
If there is even the slightest grain of truth to Chick's piece and the job is or has been offered to Gregory, he'd better take it, because he won't be getting any extensions or raises from UD. They still sell out every game up there and they are thick as thieves with the NCAA people. That's how they avoided big-time sanctions when OP had a booster pay that kid's father. That was one of the sweetest coverup jobs in history and I'm quite sure some silver crossed palms.
I also know that next season when basketball starts again the local media will be referring to Gregory as the man who turned down Marquette if he stays at UD.
The thing I can not for the life of me figure out is WHY Marquette would want Greegory? Anthony Grant, yeah. He has a much higher profile and record than Gregory.
Throughout this board and on MM I keep seeing posts that say DePaul got the berth in the Big East that was Xavier's.
The super-negative sayers over there and the doubters here don't realize that UC will never allow Xavier any membership in a conference which has the Bearcats as one of its members. And while they fly not so high since Huggins left, they still bring more to the table in both major sports than than Marquette , DePaul and Xavier, yes Xavier because none of the three has intercollegiate football, D1.
The BE is an historically strong basketball conference, but it is also a BCS member and there is serious gold in them thar hills.
A 16-school conference is way too big, but a split isn't likely to happen soon because the money is too damn good. Hell, so are the TV contracts for both sports and even though Notre Dame will probably not anytime soon be a member for football, their football program helps keep their basketball at the flet mignon and caviar table.

XURunner85
04-04-2008, 08:27 PM
I love this quote by Gregory...

"I'm extremely happy at Dayton and excited about building on the success of the last two years and the inroads we're making with the Dayton area (high school) players," Gregory said.

Ok, have I missed something? Did they win the A10? Or get into the NCAA tourney and win a game? Seriously what success have they had the last 2 years?? I also bet that if Miller and Mack went up to Dayton or Matta and Groce from OSU went to Dayton, the high school players that are any good will still pick X or OSU over UD. Still what success have they had the last 2 years??? This is racking my brain....

AdamtheFlyer
04-04-2008, 08:34 PM
The key word is "building". Building on = achieving more. Reading comprehension 101.

And are you suggesting that Miller and/or Matta aren't recruiting Dayton area kids? That would be wrong. In fact, the three teams are currently locked in a near dead heat for Adrien Payne, a player that will be ranked higher than Staten (narrowly picked UD over X) in the 2010 class.

XURunner85
04-04-2008, 08:38 PM
building on the success of the last two years....this would indicate that they had success to build on...still don't see where the success was....

AdamtheFlyer
04-04-2008, 08:50 PM
What's he going to say publicly, building on the disappointment and hopes dashed of the last two years?

I mean, it's coach speak. It's not to be taken seriously. I think coaches and most broadcasters all buy their quotes from a super secret website operated by Joe Morgan.

Cheesehead
04-04-2008, 09:28 PM
Maybe DDN should check out what the Milwaukee media & paper are reporting; Marquette is looking at current Asst. coach Buzz Williams.

The article I read said that MU doesn't believe it can lure away Sean Miller or Tony Bennett and they want continuity from w/in the program. Williams was also the primary recruiter for Marquette's incoming class.

xuab
04-05-2008, 07:47 AM
Looks like the post was completely pulled off his blog. I don't see anything recanting what was said; it just disappeared. There is an article with an "adamant" Gregory saying he will be at Dayton. The article posted today by Doug Harris also says that Miller and Bennett are on top of the wish list. Ummm, Doug, I don't know where you've been, but neither of those hires are happening.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/college/ud/2008/04/05/ddn040508spgregoryb1.html

vee4xu
04-05-2008, 07:53 AM
It doesn't matter who coaches at ud, the whole place is a mess and that'll never change. dayton is an unattractive city both physically and in terms of things to do. Why would a highly recruited player want to go there today for hte afroementioned reasons, plus the urine dump can no longer be considered a state-of-the-art facility. When recruits come to X, or go to schools with either great on campus facilites, or who play in larger arenas off compus (e.g. Verizon Center) ud cannot compete. It is a fact that sizzle sells and ud and dayton proper have none. Also, an so-called tradition that ud had is long, long gone. So, what are they left with in terms of attracting talented men's basketball players? A midget and the Big Top. Not very attractive at all.

AdamtheFlyer
04-05-2008, 09:04 AM
It doesn't matter who coaches at ud, the whole place is a mess and that'll never change. dayton is an unattractive city both physically and in terms of things to do. Why would a highly recruited player want to go there today for hte afroementioned reasons, plus the urine dump can no longer be considered a state-of-the-art facility. When recruits come to X, or go to schools with either great on campus facilites, or who play in larger arenas off compus (e.g. Verizon Center) ud cannot compete. It is a fact that sizzle sells and ud and dayton proper have none. Also, an so-called tradition that ud had is long, long gone. So, what are they left with in terms of attracting talented men's basketball players? A midget and the Big Top. Not very attractive at all.


All that would make sense, you know, if they weren't attracting highly regarded recruits. If UD doesn't win big over the next few years, it won't be because they can't recruit talent.

Seems like you're trying to convince yourself more than others. Sad.

Cheesehead
04-05-2008, 09:12 AM
Well, if UD is attracting big-time recruits (I won't even bring up Binnie) then it must be the coaching, right?

AdamtheFlyer
04-05-2008, 09:36 AM
Well, if UD is attracting big-time recruits (I won't even bring up Binnie) then it must be the coaching, right?

Really, they've only started getting "big time" recruits the last two years. Wright, Searcy, Williams, Benson, Kavanaugh, and Staten are all players that "big time" programs were looking at/offered, and UD landed them, despite being in a crap town with crap facilities and being unable to do so, according to Vee.

I'm all for questioning BG, I have my own questions, but I don't question his ability to land very good recruits. All it took was one big time recruit to raise his team to a #14 national ranking. As the quality and depth of the roster improves over the next couple years, they shouldn't be so dependent on the health of a single player.

It's simple. The next two years will make or break BG. We've been giving him a pass because he's bringing in great talent starting with Wright. Now he has to win with it.

BlueGuy
04-05-2008, 10:57 AM
I am still completely baffled by this whole thing? How in the world would this midget's name come up in a discussion regarding the MU opening? Since he has taken over at UD the program has been in a steady decline.

What are the chances this whole thing was fabricated to make Dayton look like a "player"?

XU 87
04-05-2008, 11:05 AM
Adam, I wouldn't exactly call a few of those names "big time" recruits. But compared to your previous recruiting classes, your recruiting is better. UD's incoming class appears to have some talent-the guy from Michigan is good and I've read that Benson is raw but talented. We'll see about the guy from Columbus but the guy from Illinois looks like another slow white guy. I seem to recall there's another recruit that UD stole from Miami (Ohio). Is that Kavanaugh? But when compared wth some of your other classes, there appears to be a guy or two who can play in this class.

Gregory's bigger problem is that other than Wright, he doesn't have much coming back. And you still don't have a point guard, unless you're going to rely on that guy Warren who you stole from Jacksonville (the college not the NFL team). So even if a few of these recruits are talented, they will still be freshman. Although there are instances where freshman make huge impacts, most of the time freshman do not. They may start, they may contribute, but don't expect them to be team changers unless their name is Love or Gordon etc.

So Gregory is improving the recruiting in some respects (although he's still recruiting some stiffs). But I suspect a few of you UD fans want some immediate success. And that may not be possible, particularly if you are going to rely on freshman to achieve it.

Flyer1407
04-05-2008, 11:26 AM
Adam, I wouldn't exactly call a few of those names "big time" recruits. But compared to your previous recruiting classes, your recruiting is better. UD's incoming class appears to have some talent-the guy from Michigan is good and I've read that Benson is raw but talented. We'll see about the guy from Columbus but the guy from Illinois looks like another slow white guy. I seem to recall there's another recruit that UD stole from Miami (Ohio). Is that Kavanaugh? But when compared wth some of your other classes, there appears to be a guy or two who can play in this class.

Gregory's bigger problem is that other than Wright, he doesn't have much coming back. And you still don't have a point guard, unless you're going to rely on that guy Warren who you stole from Jacksonville (the college not the NFL team). So even if a few of these recruits are talented, they will still be freshman. Although there are instances where freshman make huge impacts, most of the time freshman do not. They may start, they may contribute, but don't expect them to be team changers unless their name is Love or Gordon etc.

So Gregory is improving the recruiting in some respects (although he's still recruiting some stiffs). But I suspect a few of you UD fans want some immediate success. And that may not be possible, particularly if you are going to rely on freshman to achieve it.

While I agree the PG situation is a problem, I wouldn't say Wright is the only player coming back. Marcus Johnson finished the year extremely well, including 25 against Xavier and Charles Little is solid. And the point I believe Adam is trying to make with the guys like, Staten, Wright, Benson, and Kavanugh is that they are the best players from Dayton in each of those classes. We finally have a coach who can keep the kids fom Dayton in Dayton. Adrian Payne is the only one left and they say is close with Staten and Wright. The Dayton basketball program would be in better shape if Purnell would have gotten guys like Sato and Brown to stick around in Dayton.

The only 2 players I expect to have an impact next year as freshman are Paul Williams from Detroit and Benson. But the important thing is that these guys can shoot. Obviously Dayton's talent level is not the same as X's right now with the exception of guys like Wright and M. Johnson, but Gregory is winning the recruiting battles for guys like Benson and Staten and also has the leg up on A. Payne right now.

And who is the stiff in this class? Minus Huelsman and Binnie from Gregory's which guy has he recruited that is un-athletic? If your talking about Fabrizius from Chicago he is a 6'9 3 man. While he might not have a 35' vert. he moves pretty well and isn't a stiff. And if you've seen Kavanaugh in person you would realize he's not a stiff.
Now Huelsman would be considered a stiff.

AdamtheFlyer
04-05-2008, 11:46 AM
Huggins tried his best to get Kavanaugh to WVU. He even popped in to Centerville unannounced a couple of times after Matt verballed to UD. A couple of other known programs came after him late, but who they are escapes me. He's better than Huelsman right now, and he still has a year of AAU/high school ball to play.

Williams and Searcy were both recruited pretty hard by Michigan. Beilein wanted to pair Williams with Grady to form their rebuilding backcourt.

Benson verballed before big programs came calling. They did, and were told he was going to Dayton. BG stole one with good insight.

Staten was being recruited by OSU, UD, and X. OSU cooled due to their scholarship situation, but the Nose still wanted him.

Payne is a dead heat between Xavier, UD, and OSU. Word is UD is a slight but noticeable favorite right now.

It should be noted that if BG can land Payne, the 2010 class will have the 2nd and 3rd best players in Ohio for that year.

There are no stiffs coming into UD anymore. Even the role players will be very athletic. It's reasonable to question Gregory to this point, but it's unreasonable to say he's not recruiting and landing better talent to replace the outgoing players. We'll see if that leads to more wins. Based on how they've improved since Johnson and Wright got to campus...I'd say the odds are pretty good. Either way, BG won't be a question mark two years from now.

XUfaninJAX
04-05-2008, 12:46 PM
Truth is it doesn't matter who anybody recruits, or who tried to recruit them. It's the work and effort that they put in when they finally get to the school. The jump from HS to college is unreal and a good amount of players think they can get away with what they did in high school. Jason Love is a great example, he had a horrid freshman year, realized he's not the biggest and baddest, slimmed down a ton of pounds and will more than likely be an A-10 teamer next year (not sure which one though, probably 3rd). Look at Brian Roberts he continually worked harder and harder each year, he knew he had to stay in school to become anywhere close to being an NBA'er, and admittedly he's a great player. The problem with both X and UD is now that they BOTH are recruiting better is getting them to stay. I can see both Wright and Brown leaving a year early (Brown) or possibly two (Wright). This is becoming unchartered territory for both schools, getting quality athletes that are getting higher and higher in the Rivals or Scouts 150. What has made Xavier so successful is keeping players around for 4 years of pure development and allowing seniors to become the leaders. Do I think Gregory is a good recruiter, yeah definitely, I think it is the reason that he still has a job. But when it comes down to development, X's and O's and adlibbing through certain situations (this year in particular) he is still unable to be effective. I don't care how many injuries are suffered and this and that, you have to adjust your game plan and make the most out of your players and thats just something Gregory hasn't learned yet. I hope UD is good next year and X will obviously be better, but in the end it will help the league and hopefully we can get the 5 teams into the dance like we could have this year.

OX09
04-05-2008, 12:58 PM
I'm not going to say that UD will never truly compete with Xavier again, or that all of UD's recruits are going to be "white stiffs"...

But, how many of the non-"white stiffs" would jump ship if Gregory left, therefore giving Xavier an even greater apparent edge over the UD program for the next half decade?

kyxu
04-05-2008, 02:35 PM
I'm not going to say that UD will never truly compete with Xavier again, or that all of UD's recruits are going to be "white stiffs"...

But, how many of the non-"white stiffs" would jump ship if Gregory left, therefore giving Xavier an even greater apparent edge over the UD program for the next half decade?

Same could be said if Miller left. If Sean went to Bloomington or Milwaukee, don't expect that '08 class coming in to remain intact.

Back to the original argument, I agree with Jax. Both XU and UD fans like to trumpet the "big name" schools they've bested on the recruiting trail, including victories over each other. But getting the kid to come to your school is job 1. Developing them is an entirely different story. Brian Gregory is an exceptional recruiter, and has a pretty good product to sell at UD. Only problem is that for every Brian Roberts or Marcus Johnson you point to that has developed at UD, there's a London Warren or a Jimmy Binnie or a Warren Williams or an Andres Sandoval or a Chris Alvarez or a Nick Stafford or a Desmond Adediji or a Norman Plummer (I won't mention Charles Little in either category as he seems to show up about 50% of the time). With Sean Miller, with the exception of a few, you see improvement from the first year to the second with pretty much every player, and then each becomes a big-time contributor. You've seen it with Duncan, Burrell, Lavender (into the consummate point guard), Doellman, Cage, Cole, Raymond, Love, Brown...hell practically every player that's played under Miller. Even Dante Jackson looked like a completely different person in the second part of the season than the first.

Basically, I get a tad weary of the recruiting success Dayton fans tout and how it's proof that Xavier's recent history of success over UD is about to turn. Gregory's success on the recruiting trail is very impressive and is an important step to building a successful program, but it just seems that under Gregory, the lack of development of players has become the rule rather than the exception. The best evidence of this was UD's collapse when Wright went down. There was no better indication of the lack of player development under Gregory at UD than that.

AdamtheFlyer
04-05-2008, 02:49 PM
Basically, I get a tad weary of the recruiting success Dayton fans tout and how it's proof that Xavier's recent history of success over UD is about to turn.

That's not an argument either of us UD fans in this thread have made. Don't project UDprideBots onto us.

As for you point about development, I'd agree. But the Xavier players you mentioned were better coming into college than Adefatguy, Stafford, Binnie and the like. Plummer was a decent player, but couldn't stay out of trouble off the floor. Johnson is a prime example of a good player made better by BG. Huelsman and Warren both improved from year 1 to year 2.

The belief that BG can take UD to the level of a consistent NCAA team stems from the improvement of those guys and the recruiting of better talent to replace the outgoing players. I believe BG will develop them much like he has with Johnson and company.

vee4xu
04-05-2008, 03:15 PM
All that would make sense, you know, if they weren't attracting highly regarded recruits. If UD doesn't win big over the next few years, it won't be because they can't recruit talent.

Seems like you're trying to convince yourself more than others. Sad.

No, my realism is not sad. What is sad is your dilusion.

joebba
04-05-2008, 03:22 PM
I wonder if anyone every mistakenly calls Marquette, "Mar-Kwette"? They like to bath up Xavier.

kyxu
04-05-2008, 03:23 PM
That's not an argument either of us UD fans in this thread have made. Don't project UDprideBots onto us.

As for you point about development, I'd agree. But the Xavier players you mentioned were better coming into college than Adefatguy, Stafford, Binnie and the like. Plummer was a decent player, but couldn't stay out of trouble off the floor. Johnson is a prime example of a good player made better by BG. Huelsman and Warren both improved from year 1 to year 2.

The belief that BG can take UD to the level of a consistent NCAA team stems from the improvement of those guys and the recruiting of better talent to replace the outgoing players. I believe BG will develop them much like he has with Johnson and company.

I wasn't projecting that argument on to you or Flyer1407, Adam. When I said "Dayton fans", I'm sure you could gather I wasn't trying to limit the scope to two people.

Sure, a decent majority of the Xavier players I mentioned were more highly-regarded than some of UD's, but my point still stands with examples like Justin Doellman, Brandon Cole, Stanley Burrell, BJ Raymond and Jason Love. Each was very lightly-recruited coming out of high school, but developed into very key components of Xavier's recent success. Maybe you see it differently, and that's totally fine, but examples like these only point to Miller's superior ability to develop talent compared to Gregory.

XU 87
04-06-2008, 08:33 AM
I disagree with you about Raymond and Love. I think Raymond chose X over Notre Dame. And I read Love was about to get an offer from both Virginia and Pitt when he picked X. As for Burrell, he wasn't highly recruited. But I remember Tsnmike coming to the board and telling us what a good player he was after he committed. As for the others, you are correct in that X has been able to develop some of the lesser recruited players.

At this point, Miller isn't primarily recruiting the so-called "diamonds in the rough". He's now going after some of the top players in the country who are being recruited by some of the top programs in the country.

Rivals has this year's recruiting class ranked 26th in the country. And for what it's worth, UD's vaunted class is not ranked.

kyxu
04-06-2008, 09:17 AM
I disagree with you about Raymond and Love. I think Raymond chose X over Notre Dame. And I read Love was about to get an offer from both Virginia and Pitt when he picked X. As for Burrell, he wasn't highly recruited. But I remember Tsnmike coming to the board and telling us what a good player he was after he committed. As for the others, you are correct in that X has been able to develop some of the lesser recruited players.

Raymond never had an offer from Notre Dame, and Love's highest "major" offer was from Penn State. Maybe UVA and Pitt were about to offer Love, maybe they weren't. Speculation abounds in the world of recruiting when it comes to scholarship offers. Pretty sure Raymond's only offer besides XU was UD, and Love's were XU, Penn State and LaSalle. Compared to guys like Duncan, Brown and Frease of XU and Wright and Paul Williams of UD, most would consider that not being heavily recruited.

XU 87
04-06-2008, 09:22 AM
I assume you went to Rivals, as I did, to check the recruiting info. I am reasonably certain that Raymond had an offer from ND, even though it isn't listed. I also remember Snow saying that Pitt and Virginia were going to offer Love but backed off because Love made it clear that he was coming to X.

kyxu
04-06-2008, 09:29 AM
I assume you went to Rivals, as I did, to check the recruiting info. I am reasonably certain that Raymond had an offer from ND, even though it isn't listed. I also remember Snow saying that Pitt and Virginia were going to offer Love but backed off because Love made it clear that he was coming to X.

I looked on Rivals and Scout. There was no offer from Notre Dame for BJ Raymond, only XU and UD. Is it possible that you're mistaken? I remember Love's recruitment, but don't recall him being considered by Pitt -- maybe UVA, but not Pitt. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on Love, though.

Also take into consideration that sometimes recruits say they were offered by a certain school, when in fact they were not. Snow addressed this phenomenon on several occasions, and these writers from Scout and Rivals often don't talk to assistant coaches from other teams who do the recruiting, but the players themselves.

Muskie
04-06-2008, 09:31 AM
I remember (like XU 87) hearing Raymond had an ND offer. I wasn't able to find it either though. But it seems correct in my memory.

kyxu
04-06-2008, 09:54 AM
I remember (like XU 87) hearing Raymond had an ND offer. I wasn't able to find it either though. But it seems correct in my memory.

If Raymond did, I stand corrected, but I wasn't able to find such information. His classmate Zach Hillelsland (sp?) from Toledo St. John's did have an offer from Notre Dame and did end up going, so maybe ND saw Raymond while scouting Hillesland and thought they could get a package deal. Who knows? But I'm not finding it anywhere.

Muskie
04-06-2008, 09:55 AM
It was something like that.. it may have been more of a ND is interested in Raymond kind of thing in the local paper.

wkrq59
04-06-2008, 03:03 PM
There is no doubt Sean and his can develop players. E.G., Derrick Brown. Smartest thing the kid ever did was agree to red shirt. The even smarter thing he'll ever do is stay the next two years and develop himself as a complete player.:D:D:D

XUfaninJAX
04-06-2008, 05:18 PM
Love was highly recruited by Pitt & UVA and was offered for both. As for Raymond, from my understanding he only received interest from ND (thank goodness only that!!), but he was offered by UD. As for the argument when in terms of X bringing in better talent than UD, which is why they develop better, that is an omen to the coaching staff. I think it is more finding the players that they can develop into the players that we see today. Recognizing players that still have room to grow and turn into much better players, not seeing players who's upside isn't much more than what they were producing in high school. It's almost pulling the old NBA his upside is amazing, but obviously to a much lesser extent. Xavier has had its share of flame outs (Odia for one) who maxed out their potential in high school, and didn't particularly have the drive to succeed in D-1. Overall, it's Xavier & Miller's combination of finding players that are successful at the high school level that haven't reached maximum potential and their ability to develop those players into reaching their peak, that outduels Gregory. It is going to be fun to watch Gregory's new class come in, I will admit that they have their share of good recruits. All we can do is play the waiting game with both classes. Just for the sake of record keeping of one of my points brought up earlier (for both XU and UD fans alike)... does anyone else feel both schools recruiting well and hard that we are both heading into unchartered territory with highly touted recruits?? Does anyone have the fear that we both might be caving into the top tier players that don't finish up their four years at school?? I'd like to hear some others opinions, I for one am a little nervous to where X is recruiting huge names and that we might start hitting the one/two and done players. For the past few years our success has been driven by seniors, not stars. Just a thought....

Flyer1407
04-06-2008, 05:53 PM
Love was highly recruited by Pitt & UVA and was offered for both. As for Raymond, from my understanding he only received interest from ND (thank goodness only that!!), but he was offered by UD. As for the argument when in terms of X bringing in better talent than UD, which is why they develop better, that is an omen to the coaching staff. I think it is more finding the players that they can develop into the players that we see today. Recognizing players that still have room to grow and turn into much better players, not seeing players who's upside isn't much more than what they were producing in high school. It's almost pulling the old NBA his upside is amazing, but obviously to a much lesser extent. Xavier has had its share of flame outs (Odia for one) who maxed out their potential in high school, and didn't particularly have the drive to succeed in D-1. Overall, it's Xavier & Miller's combination of finding players that are successful at the high school level that haven't reached maximum potential and their ability to develop those players into reaching their peak, that outduels Gregory. It is going to be fun to watch Gregory's new class come in, I will admit that they have their share of good recruits. All we can do is play the waiting game with both classes. Just for the sake of record keeping of one of my points brought up earlier (for both XU and UD fans alike)... does anyone else feel both schools recruiting well and hard that we are both heading into unchartered territory with highly touted recruits?? Does anyone have the fear that we both might be caving into the top tier players that don't finish up their four years at school?? I'd like to hear some others opinions, I for one am a little nervous to where X is recruiting huge names and that we might start hitting the one/two and done players. For the past few years our success has been driven by seniors, not stars. Just a thought....

I think it all depends on the situation. If you were missing one player from being really really good I think it's worth the risk to take a 1 or 2 and done player. Xavier next year is going to be very good, if they had the shot at landing the #1 PG in the nation I think most Xavier fans would take it and have the opportunity to get to a Final 4. I think a program like Xavier could do that at this point and stil bring in players around them to sustain success.

I don't think UD at this point can bring a player like that in and risk a 1 and done. Look at how far back T. Meachum set Dayton by just transfering, we still haven't recovered and still need a PG.

kyxu
04-06-2008, 06:24 PM
It's a moot point. Neither Xavier nor UD recruit those "one and done" players, and those "one and done" players would never come to Xavier or UD. Those types of players want national exposure right away in order be lottery picks after their perfunctory year of school. Realistically, UD and Xavier can't offer that.

kyxu
04-06-2008, 06:26 PM
Love was highly recruited by Pitt & UVA and was offered for both. As for Raymond, from my understanding he only received interest from ND (thank goodness only that!!), but he was offered by UD.

Again, I can't find anything from any source that says Love was offered by Pitt or UVA. Seriously, point me in the right direction and show me where you found this.

XU 87
04-06-2008, 07:40 PM
My memory is that Love took a visit to Virginia right before he committed to Xavier. I'm fairly certain that they offered. But I have specific recollection that Snow wrote that Pitt was going to offer but decided not to when it was very clear that Love was going to X.

As for Raymond, there is an article on Scout which discusses his final three schools before he committed. I'm no longer a member and can't read the article. So I can't tell who the three schools are. If someone is still a member, please read or post the article. Maybe that will decide this great debate.

kyxu
04-06-2008, 09:06 PM
If someone is still a member, please read or post the article. Maybe that will decide this great debate.

No worries. I don't even care anymore.