Coach Steele and staff

[IM4X]

Just wanted to give a little well deserved praise to Coach Steele and his staff for an awesome job reeling in two really promising top 100 prospects (one of which is in the top 50) from the class of 2022. The future is looking brighter by the day!

Not sure how many scholarships are remaining for that season, but it’d be great to see them land a top 100 PF/C who is a beast inside from that class as well.


Note: I believe the Travis Steele thread was closed so I thought I’d open a new one.

[xu82]

Just wanted to give a little well deserved praise to Coach Steele and his staff for an awesome job reeling in two really promising top 100 prospects (one of which is in the top 50) from the class of 2022. The future is looking brighter by the day!

Not sure how many scholarships are remaining for that season, but it’d be great to see them land a top 100 PF/C who is a beast inside from that class as well.


Note: I believe the Travis Steele thread was closed so I thought I’d open a new one.

Add a monster inside and I would be absolutely giddy!

[xuphan]

Add a monster inside and I would be absolutely giddy!

Any idea which bigs we are after? I figured we would try to get a PG (Sean J or Paul M) and maybe pick up a big in the transfer portal.

[Xuperman]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I am kinda optimistic about the 3 bigs we already have. We know that, if healthy, Nunge will be productive as a true 5 AND he is a very LARGE individual. Plus both Miles and Edwards will get a full year to learn from Jack. I truly believe that Miles will end up developing into a 7' 250-60 athletic center. Then it's already obvious that Cesare is not having any problem adding some significant weight....it looks to be in the form of muscle and he's already a legit 6'10 with a good stroke away from the paint. Good chance one of the two will end up being special.....even both with any luck.

[xu82]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I am kinda optimistic about the 3 bigs we already have. We know that, if healthy, Nunge will be productive as a true 5 AND he is a very LARGE individual. Plus both Miles and Edwards will get a full year to learn from Jack. I truly believe that Miles will end up developing into a 7' 250-60 athletic center. Then it's already obvious that Cesare is not having any problem adding some significant weight....it looks to be in the form of muscle and he's already a legit 6'10 with a good stroke away from the paint. Good chance one of the two will end up being special.....even both with any luck.

The new big guy MAY indeed be on the roster. Seeing that play out would be new. And awesome!

[xukeith]

2022-23 lineup issue.

With a 6'7 top 50 get and 6'6 top 100 sf/sg will Colby Jones (6-5/6) be on the court with these two frosh? Odom is the pg.

I guess one very good player will be coming off the bench

[xu82]

2022-23 lineup issue.

With a 6'7 top 50 get and 6'6 top 100 sf/sg will Colby Jones (6-5/6) be on the court with these two frosh? Odom is the pg.

I guess one very good player will be coming off the bench


Add one big, cut down the nets! :-)

[IM4X]

Yeah...

There is a chance we do have all the bigs we need on the roster, but the problem is we do not know for sure and we don’t have a “proven” stoppers on the team. Nudge looks good in videos, but he has twice had injuries. Miles is someone I am hoping big things form, but he didn’t play much and when he did play he was not yet an intimidating force in the paint. Edwards could be a legit option, but again his ability to play at a high level in the BE this coming season is uncertain at best. Who will be that beast inside X badly needs gobbling up rebounds and being a reliable stopper. Even Freemantle has struggled quite a bit on defense at times.

So while it is possible we may already have the bigs we need on the team, we have yet to see a 4 and 5 on the court at e same time that look really good for long stretches in a game. A proven high level big will help X win the battle of the boards and get to the foul line more than the opponent. If X gets half way through the season only to realize they are still weak inside on defense, there is not much they can do at that point.

[bobbiemcgee]

Think this guy is the next target:

https://247sports.com/Player/Noah-Clowney-46110266/

[Xuperman]

Yeah, Nunge has to stay healthy to feel good about our line up that features a true 5. Personally I would like to see the vast number of minutes for Free as a stretch 4.

[Xuperman]

2022-23 lineup issue.

With a 6'7 top 50 get and 6'6 top 100 sf/sg will Colby Jones (6-5/6) be on the court with these two frosh? Odom is the pg.

I guess one very good player will be coming off the bench

Barring anything unexpected like injury/transfer, the 2022-23 roster will have an abundance of experienced depth 1 thru 4. You will have Tandy, Kunk, Z as seniors, Jones, Odom, Hunter as Juniors and Tucker, Edwards sophs. If either of the 2022 freshman can get significant minutes over that group, X will be pretty darn good.

I have a feeling that Jerome Hunter is going to surprise a lot of folks here.

[IM4X]

Think this guy is the next target:

https://247sports.com/Player/Noah-Clowney-46110266/

I think we would all feel good about landing Clooney. He shows toughness inside, soft hands and good range. He might be a complete package. Can’t tell if he is a legit 6’9” but this link below shows a wide range of what he can do.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j80z01xyX-c


This Reed kid looks like he will be is a serious beast at the next level. We appear on his list here but I think I saw somewhere else that he cut his list to MIchigan State, Michigan and OSU.

https://247sports.com/Recruitment/Tarris-Reed-134485/RecruitInterests/

[Masterofreality]

It’s August.
Three Man Weave’s analysis.
“Yes, Chris Mack was a legend, but Steele’s era has been well below that of Sean Miller and Thad Matta before him, as well. Over the past 20 years, the Musketeers have been outside of KenPom’s top 60 just four times; two of those came in Steele’s three-year tenure, compared to zero of the nine top 25 finishes. Steele is now 23-26 in Big East play, going 6-7 last year while somehow avoiding both Villanova (yay!) and DePaul (dang). The two-game winning streak in the Crosstown Shootout helps, but buying out the bar at Dana Gardens after knocking off Cincinnati is only part of the job description (albeit a critical one).”

And this hits it on the head as to why Xavier has struggled under Steele at season's end for 3 years:

"Steele continues to use motion principles while largely shunning isolations. Xavier ranked 9th nationally in assist rate, according to KenPom, while finishing 321st in possessions that ended in isolation, per Synergy. That resulted in struggles against more prepared teams at times, as the lack of individual creation allowed foes to load up on Xavier’s initial actions."

Once there is film on us, we're dead (almost). Personnel aside, Steele had better change up his schemes.
This isn’t from “negative me”. This is from guys who’s lives are wrapped up in College Basketball.

https://www.three-man-weave.com/3mw/xavier-2021-22-preview

[nuts4xu]

I truly believe that Miles will end up developing into a 7' 250-60 athletic center.

That makes one of us....

He showed up at 6'10"/210 lbs, he is currently listed at 6'11"/225 lbs after 2 full years in the programs. To expect him to put on 25-35 lbs and grow another inch is kind of rare. He may be listed at 7' by the time he is a senior but I suspect that will not be a true measurement.

By all accounts the kid has worked his ass off since he arrive on campus. Yet he hasn't stayed healthy and hasn't done enough to earn regular playing time. I don't recall him winning a single "gold jersey" yet and that will have to change before Steele will play him.

[profson]

I am pretty impressed that being 9th in the country in assists, and moving the ball, can be spun as a negative. I guess I missed the memo where we no longer criticize Steele for stagnant ball movement - it even had a name: Najiball

[Strange Brew]

I am pretty impressed that being 9th in the country in assists, and moving the ball, can be spun as a negative. I guess I missed the memo where we no longer criticize Steele for stagnant ball movement - it even had a name: Najiball

I’m hoping Steele learns to change it up when it’s not working or teams have it figured out. He has a full arsenal of scorers this season and good post options. Make the defense have to worry about 1 or 2 players for a bit and switch back to motion. His stubbornness when it’s not working is what is irritating to watch IMO.

[JEHARDI]

It’s August.
Three Man Weave’s analysis.
“Yes, Chris Mack was a legend, but Steele’s era has been well below that of Sean Miller and Thad Matta before him, as well. Over the past 20 years, the Musketeers have been outside of KenPom’s top 60 just four times; two of those came in Steele’s three-year tenure, compared to zero of the nine top 25 finishes. Steele is now 23-26 in Big East play, going 6-7 last year while somehow avoiding both Villanova (yay!) and DePaul (dang). The two-game winning streak in the Crosstown Shootout helps, but buying out the bar at Dana Gardens after knocking off Cincinnati is only part of the job description (albeit a critical one).”

And this hits it on the head as to why Xavier has struggled under Steele at season's end for 3 years:

"Steele continues to use motion principles while largely shunning isolations. Xavier ranked 9th nationally in assist rate, according to KenPom, while finishing 321st in possessions that ended in isolation, per Synergy. That resulted in struggles against more prepared teams at times, as the lack of individual creation allowed foes to load up on Xavier’s initial actions."

Once there is film on us, we're dead (almost). Personnel aside, Steele had better change up his schemes.
This isn’t from “negative me”. This is from guys who’s lives are wrapped up in College Basketball.

https://www.three-man-weave.com/3mw/xavier-2021-22-preview

You might want to read the entire article, defensive rebounding and defense was cited as a bigger issue than the offense. Injuries and personnel issues were also noted.

[Strange Brew]

You might want to read the entire article, defensive rebounding and defense was cited as a bigger issue than the offense. Injuries and personnel issues were also noted.

Discussing defense makes me feel like an old timer when I watch today’s hoops….

Edit: feel the same way watching baseball when a runner is on first with nobody out and thinking bunt.

[Masterofreality]

You might want to read the entire article, defensive rebounding and defense was cited as a bigger issue than the offense. Injuries and personnel issues were also noted.

I read it. All. You really think I didn’t? Yeah. Rebounding on both ends has been a problem. That goes to scheme. Too many second chances for them and not enough for us.
Fact still remains. Underperformance vs history. Dance required this year.

[JEHARDI]

It’s August.
Three Man Weave’s analysis.
“Yes, Chris Mack was a legend, but Steele’s era has been well below that of Sean Miller and Thad Matta before him, as well. Over the past 20 years, the Musketeers have been outside of KenPom’s top 60 just four times; two of those came in Steele’s three-year tenure, compared to zero of the nine top 25 finishes. Steele is now 23-26 in Big East play, going 6-7 last year while somehow avoiding both Villanova (yay!) and DePaul (dang). The two-game winning streak in the Crosstown Shootout helps, but buying out the bar at Dana Gardens after knocking off Cincinnati is only part of the job description (albeit a critical one).”

And this hits it on the head as to why Xavier has struggled under Steele at season's end for 3 years:

"Steele continues to use motion principles while largely shunning isolations. Xavier ranked 9th nationally in assist rate, according to KenPom, while finishing 321st in possessions that ended in isolation, per Synergy. That resulted in struggles against more prepared teams at times, as the lack of individual creation allowed foes to load up on Xavier’s initial actions."

Once there is film on us, we're dead (almost). Personnel aside, Steele had better change up his schemes.
This isn’t from “negative me”. This is from guys who’s lives are wrapped up in College Basketball.

https://www.three-man-weave.com/3mw/xavier-2021-22-preview

I guess this paragraph did not fit your narrative?

“Because of its ability to take care of the ball and finish inside, Xavier’s offense was the strength of the team; unfortunately, the defensive end of the floor kept the Musketeers out of the Big Dance”

[Strange Brew]

I guess this paragraph did not fit your narrative?

“Because of its ability to take care of the ball and finish inside, Xavier’s offense was the strength of the team; unfortunately, the defensive end of the floor kept the Musketeers out of the Big Dance”

On defense I hope to see a lot more press. With the deep bench at guard and multiple bigs it should be a good way to wear out other teams.

[XUGRAD80]

On defense I hope to see a lot more press. With the deep bench at guard and multiple bigs it should be a good way to wear out other teams.

I’ll bet you any amount of money you want that won’t happen. Steele has said on more than one occasion that he is not a believer in the press. Instead, he believes in half court pressure, man on man. Unfortunately, many of the players he has have feet that are made for zone and not man defense.

[Masterofreality]

I guess this paragraph did not fit your narrative?

“Because of its ability to take care of the ball and finish inside, Xavier’s offense was the strength of the team; unfortunately, the defensive end of the floor kept the Musketeers out of the Big Dance”

I don’t have a “narrative”. The article covers everything. The results in wins and losses speak for themselves.
Win games and make the Dance. That is the only narrative. Steele hasn’t done it yet. He blew a 19 point lead vs trash Butler.
Let’s not see that again.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

On Miles, 15 pounds in two years isn’t bad but not great either. When you are already fit, you don’t get newbie gains from pumping that iron. If he wasn’t than that is his newbie gains. Anything more than 5-10 pounds a year for an already fit individual is most likely not natural.

I have seen guys put on 25 in a year but it took use of illegal drugs. I myself had 25 pounds in year but it was all newbie pains from being on a real program and I had a frame that fit it. After that I saw nothing.

[xavierj]

On Miles, 15 pounds in two years isn’t bad but not great either. When you are already fit, you don’t get newbie gains from pumping that iron. If he wasn’t than that is his newbie gains. Anything more than 5-10 pounds a year for an already fit individual is most likely not natural.

I have seen guys put on 25 in a year but it took use of illegal drugs. I myself had 25 pounds in year but it was all newbie pains from being on a real program and I had a frame that fit it. After that I saw nothing.

I don’t know. My son was 218 in February and 243 by the end of April. He gets tested as an athlete so nothing illegal but he did up his calories to 8,000 a day. Since then he dropped his calories to around 5,000 a day and is staying around 235. Miles looks bigger to me from the pictures I have seen, not rail thin it does not appear and with his frame you would think he can keep putting on weight. He is young for his grade so it wouldn’t surprise me if he was 250 in a couple of years.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I don’t know. My son was 218 in February and 243 by the end of April. He gets tested as an athlete so nothing illegal but he did up his calories to 8,000 a day. Since then he dropped his calories to around 5,000 a day and is staying around 235. Miles looks bigger to me from the pictures I have seen, not rail thin it does not appear and with his frame you would think he can keep putting on weight. He is young for his grade so it wouldn’t surprise me if he was 250 in a couple of years.

Sorry let me be specific, you can gain fat which you need if you are lifting heavy. If you are fit and lean already and only want to add muscle, the gains are much slower. 15 pounds in two years is doable naturally for just muscle. I have no idea where he started.

I would be curious to hear where your son started muscle/fat wise and where he finish but understand that’s a tad personal fora chat board.

[jhelmes37]

If you’re 20 years old, an elite athlete, and you have top notch strength and conditioning coaches and nutritionists, it’s 100% possible natural, and possibly likely.

They are at the height of testosterone production, they have few responsibilities other than play ball and attend class, and they’re (hopefully) hard workers.

Derrick Brown went from 185 as a freshman to 225 as a redshirt junior. I doubt he used PEDs.

[xu82]

If you’re 20 years old, an elite athlete, and you have top notch strength and conditioning coaches and nutritionists, it’s 100% possible natural, and possibly likely.

They are at the height of testosterone production, they have few responsibilities other than play ball and attend class, and they’re (hopefully) hard workers.

Derrick Brown went from 185 as a freshman to 225 as a redshirt junior. I doubt he used PEDs.

As part of that, his foot grew about a half inch too big. Ugh…

[jhelmes37]

As part of that, his foot grew about a half inch too big. Ugh…

Don’t remind me…. Stupid big toe….

[ArizonaXUGrad]

If youÂ’re 20 years old, an elite athlete, and you have top notch strength and conditioning coaches and nutritionists, itÂ’s 100% possible natural, and possibly likely.

They are at the height of testosterone production, they have few responsibilities other than play ball and attend class, and theyÂ’re (hopefully) hard workers.

Derrick Brown went from 185 as a freshman to 225 as a redshirt junior. I doubt he used PEDs.

I have been around power lifters my whole life. It doesnÂ’t matter your age. You will have newbie gains when you first start. After that 5-10 pounds of muscle per year is about what a natural human can add. Age just doesnÂ’t matter. If it some of that weight is fat also which when lifting definitely comes, then that explains it. Creatine use will add 5ish pound of water weight.

Celebrities have seemingly normalized huge muscle gains and they just arenÂ’t natural. To put on massive muscle weight that is lean, you would need to have started at a massive deficit or be one of a statistically rare genetic freak.

I put on 20 pounds of weight in 6 months. A lot of it but not all was muscle but I had the bigger frame to do it and was coming from 15 years of road and mountain bike racing where I was trying to limit my bodyÂ’s weight. It was pretty much all newbie weight.

[xukeith]

Think this guy is the next target:

https://247sports.com/Player/Noah-Clowney-46110266/

This upcoming season, X will have 5 players 6'8 or taller. None will graduate next year. We probably should guess 1-2 will transfer.

Does X need another 6'9 post player for next year? I thought X needed a pg to learn the ropes from Odom.

[jhelmes37]

I have been around power lifters my whole life. It doesnÂ’t matter your age. You will have newbie gains when you first start. After that 5-10 pounds of muscle per year is about what a natural human can add. Age just doesnÂ’t matter. If it some of that weight is fat also which when lifting definitely comes, then that explains it. Creatine use will add 5ish pound of water weight.

Celebrities have seemingly normalized huge muscle gains and they just arenÂ’t natural. To put on massive muscle weight that is lean, you would need to have started at a massive deficit or be one of a statistically rare genetic freak.

I put on 20 pounds of weight in 6 months. A lot of it but not all was muscle but I had the bigger frame to do it and was coming from 15 years of road and mountain bike racing where I was trying to limit my bodyÂ’s weight. It was pretty much all newbie weight.

"It doesn't matter your age."

BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

K.

You win.

Bye.

Also: update your iPhone. [emoji108]

[Xuperman]

Any idea which bigs we are after? I figured we would try to get a PG (Sean J or Paul M) and maybe pick up a big in the transfer portal.

Jones off the board.....heading to Marquette. No big deal if Steele can secure McMillan, but there is something fishy about him moving to Arizona coupled with an offer from Hurley and ASU.

A lot was invested in recruiting these guys, so if X loses out on both the prospects of getting a highly rated 2022 PG changes dramatically.

[Xville]

Jones off the board.....heading to Marquette. No big deal if Steele can secure McMillan, but there is something fishy about him moving to Arizona coupled with an offer from Hurley and ASU.

A lot was invested in recruiting these guys, so if X loses out on both the prospects of getting a highly rated 2022 PG changes dramatically.

What about walker?

Honestly Jones never impressed me, and many on here have just shrugged about McMillan like he’s just “average” as well. Got two highly ranked guys in this class…if they have to go the transfer route for a pg in a year or two so be it.

[Xuperman]

Honestly Jones never impressed me, and many on here have just shrugged about McMillan like he’s just “average” as well. Got two highly ranked guys in this class…if they have to go the transfer route for a pg in a year or two so be it.

Yeah agreed on Jones. Not only were some here really jacked about him, they seemed to have information that Steele was going max effort as his top target, but I don't know where that info was coming from.

On the other hand, I have read plenty of info on McMillan and it is not only good, it is elite level accolades in all phases. Average? The guy has been tearing up the AAU shoe circuts since he was 14. I mean, he averaged like 28 and 5 in HS last year shooting a blistering 53% from 3! The problem for X is that he is in no hurry to commit. More big names are getting involved and if he puts up the expected numbers at this AZ Prep School, his recruitment will likely blow up big time.

No doubt a quality PG transfer is a good insurance policy, but getting one with multiple years of eligabilty is important. One year rentals do not allow desired continuity IMO.

[Xuperman]

Don't want to read too much into this, but just noticed Xavier offered PG Desmond Claude on Thursday. Don't know what that says about the McMillan recruitment, but it can't be considered a positive. This Claude guy has unique size for a PG, but he is currently flying way under the radar.

https://247sports.com/player/desmond-claude-46102817/

[bobbiemcgee]

Don't want to read too much into this, but just noticed Xavier offered PG Desmond Claude on Thursday. Don't know what that says about the McMillan recruitment, but it can't be considered a positive. This Claude guy has unique size for a PG, but he is currently flying way under the radar.

https://247sports.com/player/desmond-claude-46102817/

Impressive list of offers including 5 BE schools, so they must see something.

[noteggs]

Impressive list of offers including 5 BE schools, so they must see something.

If Claude is a true PG, guess we can mark off Marquette because of the commit from Jones yesterday. But yes your overall point is well taken.

[bobbiemcgee]

https://newenglandrecruitingreport.com/in-the-news/summer-stock-risers-2022-guards

[Masterofreality]

It’s August.
Three Man Weave’s analysis.
“Yes, Chris Mack was a legend, but Steele’s era has been well below that of Sean Miller and Thad Matta before him, as well. Over the past 20 years, the Musketeers have been outside of KenPom’s top 60 just four times; two of those came in Steele’s three-year tenure, compared to zero of the nine top 25 finishes. Steele is now 23-26 in Big East play, going 6-7 last year while somehow avoiding both Villanova (yay!) and DePaul (dang). The two-game winning streak in the Crosstown Shootout helps, but buying out the bar at Dana Gardens after knocking off Cincinnati is only part of the job description (albeit a critical one).”

And this hits it on the head as to why Xavier has struggled under Steele at season's end for 3 years:

"Steele continues to use motion principles while largely shunning isolations. Xavier ranked 9th nationally in assist rate, according to KenPom, while finishing 321st in possessions that ended in isolation, per Synergy. That resulted in struggles against more prepared teams at times, as the lack of individual creation allowed foes to load up on Xavier’s initial actions."

Once there is film on us, we're dead (almost). Personnel aside, Steele had better change up his schemes.
This isn’t from “negative me”. This is from guys who’s lives are wrapped up in College Basketball.

https://www.three-man-weave.com/3mw/xavier-2021-22-preview

I just thought I’d bring this up again from last August 3rd for board discussion. Are we seeing the same thing again this year?
Questions.

[noteggs]

They lost me when they said Mack was a legend…

[Masterofreality]

They lost me when they said Mack was a legend…

The coach with the most wins in program history? The only coach to win a regular season Big East Championship in the League other than Jay Wright?
The only coach in Xavier history achieving a #1 seed?
Yah. He screwed up at Louisville but you cannot deny what he accomplished at Xavier.

[Xville]

The coach with the most wins in program history? The only coach to win a regular season Big East Championship in the League other than Jay Wright?
The only coach in Xavier history achieving a #1 seed?
Yah. He screwed up at Louisville but you cannot deny what he accomplished at Xavier.

To each their own, the things I most remember mack for is failing as a high seed twice, once because he was a distracted fool having agreed to the Louisville job while having a #1 seed team that could have legitimately gone to a final four. I’d hardly call someone like that a legend, but again to each their own.

[Xavier]

I don’t think he is “legend” status. I think he moved the program forward like Thad and Sean before him. I know, I know- he did nothing with it. But I always said I don’t think X would get a 1 seed. It’s still hard to believe. While on the other hand he didn’t capitalize on it with recruiting. He certainly had ups and downs but he moved the program forward.

[Masterofreality]

What I was really going at was those guys analysis of Steele’s so called “System”
Is it playing out the same way this late year?

[IM4X]

They lost me when they said Mack was a legend… in his own mind.

Fixed it.

[IM4X]

To each their own, the things I most remember mack for is failing as a high seed twice, once because he was a distracted fool having agreed to the Louisville job while having a #1 seed team that could have legitimately gone to a final four. I’d hardly call someone like that a legend, but again to each their own.

Hey. I think we can all at least agree Mack has a Legendary EGO. The man was prickly and dismissive to so many who did not deserve it during his tenure at X (and I’d imagine at Louisville too). He had no problem taking credit for most of the good stuff that happened when he was HC of the Muskies and even less of an issue blaming any of his shortcomings along the way on his players, assistants or the school that handed him a dream job- all of whom helped make him a rich man.

Ever wonder why Mack’s players at Louisville quit on him and used their power to push him out? At least Steele’s players don’t think he is an uncaring jerk (I really wanted to use a DIfferent word here for MaCK). Maybe Mack has made enough money at this point to wipe his ass with hundred dollar bills every day of the week, for the rest of his life. Good for him. I pray he doesn’t go and do something stupid now (with his free time) like start blaming his wife and kids and throwing them under the bus for yet more of his own shortcomings. They might just be the only people left in his life who he hasn’t alienated yet.

[UCGRAD4X]

It may be that Dick...I mean Mack...was a legend at running that kind of offense. I'm not that much of an analysist to determine that.

At the time it looked as if he could have moved into legendary status overall. After his more blatant dickieness, I'm not so sure.

[Xville]

I don’t think Mack’s offense was any better schematically than Steele’s. Looks about the same to me…the difference is mack employed big bruiser forwards that helped, and he had guys like JP, Tre, tu and Crawford that bailed him out.

[Xville]

What I was really going at was those guys analysis of Steele’s so called “System”
Is it playing out the same way this late year?

I didn’t really understand the quoted part of the analysis you presented from the article. The analysis to me looked like they were watching a different team. I don’t understand what they are watching because I don’t see a motion offense and never did. I see a bunch of guys standing around not knowing what to do and try isolation.

The only part of the analysis I agree with is that whatever the “scheme” is it doesn’t work, isn’t hard to defend and is something a kindergartner would draw up.

[smileyy]

while having a #1 seed team that could have legitimately gone to a final four.

Nah, but that #2 seed team could have. The #1 seed team was a paper tiger (more of a 2-4 seed) with no perimeter defense.

[boozehound]

I don’t think Mack’s offense was any better schematically than Steele’s. Looks about the same to me…the difference is mack employed big bruiser forwards that helped, and he had guys like JP, Tre, tu and Crawford that bailed him out.

This is my assessment of Mack’s teams. Offensively they ran the same (or similar) garbage ‘scheme’ that Steele is attempting to execute, just with some better personnel. If you put Trevon Blueitt on this team I’ll bet the offense would look a lot better.

Mack’s teams did seem to play better defense than Steele’s teams have, and they closed out games much better, but that could be personnel too.

Travis Steele is a JV version of Chris Mack, who I’m not sure is that great of a coach either.

[JEHARDI]

I didn’t really understand the quoted part of the analysis you presented from the article. The analysis to me looked like they were watching a different team. I don’t understand what they are watching because I don’t see a motion offense and never did. I see a bunch of guys standing around not knowing what to do and try isolation.

The only part of the analysis I agree with is that whatever the “scheme” is it doesn’t work, isn’t hard to defend and is something a kindergartner would draw up.

“Try isolation” you clearly have a kindergartners knowledge of the game.

Steele is responsible for the results but your analysis is comical.

[Xville]

“Try isolation” you clearly have a kindergartners knowledge of the game.

Steele is responsible for the results but your analysis is comical.

Motion principles which the article described involves movement of which there is little to none in Steele’s offense. Trying isolation is exactly what I see Scruggs and Colby doing when they drive to the basket and do nothing with the ball except stand under the basket for 4-5 seconds. Try again.

And since you think you know so much about basketball, why don’t you grace us with what you think Steele’s offense actually is instead of your usual great insight of criticizing other posters for insights while you never display any.

[drudy23]

Free is shooting 5-34 (14%) from 3.

He led the team in 3 point attempts yesterday (5) - he made zero.

What are we doing?

He will sink the ship to prove his way can work. I'm convinced.

[xuphan]

Free is shooting 5-34 (14%) from 3.

He led the team in 3 point attempts yesterday (5) - he made zero.

What are we doing?

He will sink the ship to prove his way can work. I'm convinced.

How is this as Steele calls it a great shot or in this case shots for Xavier? How do the analytics back up having a 17-20% three point shooting big take the most 3s for the team?

[CP05XU08CU13]

The experiment is over in my opinion. Promoting from within works until it has run its course. Steele had big shoes to fill from his predecessors and seemed like the logical choice at the time he was promoted to head coach. The formula had worked for Xavier for a number of years (Gillen, Matta, Miller, Mack). There is no reason that this program should ever finish lower than 4th in the conference. Not with the money and resources they have poured into the program. If Christopher wants to go down with this sinking ship so be it. There are plenty of candidates that would jump at the opportunity to be the AD at Xavier. It is hard to claw your way back when your program slips to mediocrity, especially when you want to to be considered an upper echelon program on the cusp of winning a national championship. Shaka Smart comes into Marquette and his team is already playing better than Xavier I’m his first season there. I would be shocked if Xavier makes the tournament with a below 500 record. If Christopher is not already looking for a replacement and putting out feelers then he is not doing his job. Again, as I have said before on this forum: it is not personal, it’s business. Travis has proven that he is not ready for the big time. He may do better at a smaller, lesser known school. Best of luck to him to wherever he ends up next, but his time at Xavier has run its course.
.

[Xville]

The experiment is over in my opinion. Promoting from within works until it has run its course. Steele had big shoes to fill from his predecessors and seemed like the logical choice at the time he was promoted to head coach. The formula had worked for Xavier for a number of years (Gillen, Matta, Miller, Mack). There is no reason that this program should ever finish lower than 4th in the conference. Not with the money and resources they have poured into the program. If Christopher wants to go down with this sinking ship so be it. There are plenty of candidates that would jump at the opportunity to be the AD at Xavier. It is hard to claw your way back when your program slips to mediocrity, especially when you want to to be considered an upper echelon program on the cusp of winning a national championship. Shaka Smart comes into Marquette and his team is already playing better than Xavier I’m his first season there. I would be shocked if Xavier makes the tournament with a below 500 record. If Christopher is not already looking for a replacement and putting out feelers then he is not doing his job. Again, as I have said before on this forum: it is not personal, it’s business. Travis has proven that he is not ready for the big time. He may do better at a smaller, lesser known school. Best of luck to him to wherever he ends up next, but his time at Xavier has run its course.
.

Agree with a lot of this but Matta and Gillen were outside hires… seemed to work pretty well :)

[xavbball]

The experiment is over in my opinion. Promoting from within works until it has run its course. Steele had big shoes to fill from his predecessors and seemed like the logical choice at the time he was promoted to head coach. The formula had worked for Xavier for a number of years (Gillen, Matta, Miller, Mack). There is no reason that this program should ever finish lower than 4th in the conference. Not with the money and resources they have poured into the program. If Christopher wants to go down with this sinking ship so be it. There are plenty of candidates that would jump at the opportunity to be the AD at Xavier. It is hard to claw your way back when your program slips to mediocrity, especially when you want to to be considered an upper echelon program on the cusp of winning a national championship. Shaka Smart comes into Marquette and his team is already playing better than Xavier I’m his first season there. I would be shocked if Xavier makes the tournament with a below 500 record. If Christopher is not already looking for a replacement and putting out feelers then he is not doing his job. Again, as I have said before on this forum: it is not personal, it’s business. Travis has proven that he is not ready for the big time. He may do better at a smaller, lesser known school. Best of luck to him to wherever he ends up next, but his time at Xavier has run its course.
.

This is a great post and I completely agree. Need to reverse course before it's too late. It seems a lot of folks want to measure success by making the tournament this year. I'm sorry but what will that get us? Extending a mediocre coach for another couple of years will make it more difficult to get rid of him. Then what? The next couple of seasons we see more of the same and we are stuck with mediocrity. It becomes harder and harder to get back to where we were. Before we know it the Xavier identity is lost. It's clear to me that we need to move on from Steele.

[CP05XU08CU13]

Agree with a lot of this but Matta and Gillen were outside hires… seemed to work pretty well :)

Thank you for the correction, and absolutely those hires worked out well for the program! Success is measured in wins and losses. It’s not rocket science. Solid programs do not rebuild, they reload. I could care less if other traditional blue blood programs are having down years.
Most of those schools have football and baseball to fall back on. Xavier is a basketball school first and foremost. Crossing our fingers to get to 20 wins in the regular season is downright disgraceful.

[Xville]

Thank you for the correction, and absolutely those hires worked out well for the program! Success is measured in wins and losses. It’s not rocket science. Solid programs do not rebuild, they reload. I could care less if other traditional blue blood programs are having down years.
Most of those schools have football and baseball to fall back on. Xavier is a basketball school first and foremost. Crossing our fingers to get to 20 wins in the regular season is downright disgraceful.

Agree completely

[Xville]

This is a great post and I completely agree. Need to reverse course before it's too late. It seems a lot of folks want to measure success by making the tournament this year. I'm sorry but what will that get us? Extending a mediocre coach for another couple of years will make it more difficult to get rid of him. Then what? The next couple of seasons we see more of the same and we are stuck with mediocrity. It becomes harder and harder to get back to where we were. Before we know it the Xavier identity is lost. It's clear to me that we need to move on from Steele.

Agree, Im not sure if it is necessarily that’s how we are measuring success for this year, I think it’s just that we want to see x so badly back in the tournament. I don’t think anyone besides Steele would necessarily call just an invite a success. Unfortunately, that’s how far down he has taken this program inn 4 years

[nuts4xu]

What I was really going at was those guys analysis of Steele’s so called “System”
Is it playing out the same way this late year?

“Our system got exposed” - Travis Steele

[UCGRAD4X]

“My system got exposed” - Travis Steele

If he were a real leader...

[boozehound]

“Our system got exposed” - Travis Steele

It drives me crazy when he talks about his 'system'. It's not a good system. It really wasn't a great system under Mack either, but it worked out better because we had better talent.

Basically we have an offensive system that relies heavily on guys being able to create their own shot off the dribble, but we have nobody who is particularly good at doing that. It can look really good if you have 4 guys who can create their own shot (Villanova) and pretty good if you have 2-3 (Mack's better teams) but it's downright fugly when you don't have the personnel, which is what we have seen for 4 years now under Steele. Scruggs is the closest thing to a player that can make things happen off the dribble and it's often sloppy and kind of out of control.

We have a team with couple of streaky spot-up shooters. A few guys who can't shoot at all. One big who can kind of shoot and one who thinks he can shoot but he can't. Steele should have figured this out before the season started and devised a scheme to make the most of the talent that he had, instead of forcing them to execute and offensive system that is a complete mismatch for nearly all of the players' skill sets.

[boozehound]

Free is shooting 5-34 (14%) from 3.

He led the team in 3 point attempts yesterday (5) - he made zero.

What are we doing?

He will sink the ship to prove his way can work. I'm convinced.

That is an incredibly telling statistic. Either Steele is OK with a 14% 3 point shooter taking 5 in a game, or his players have no respect for him at all. Either way, that's a big problem.

[bleedXblue]

That is an incredibly telling statistic. Either Steele is OK with a 14% 3 point shooter taking 5 in a game, or his players have no respect for him at all. Either way, that's a big problem.

Bordering on a clown show at this point with Steele. And yes, the players either don't respect him or are too unaware of their deficiencies to care.

[JTG]

[QUOTE=boozehound;723591] Either Steele is OK with a 14% 3 point shooter taking 5 in a game, or his players have no respect for him at all.[/QUOTE ] If that's the case it's time to let an assistant finish the season. Who knows maybe we'd be great and finish like "hell on wheels". Trouble is we don't know if the assistants are any good.

[xuphan]

That is an incredibly telling statistic. Either Steele is OK with a 14% 3 point shooter taking 5 in a game, or his players have no respect for him at all. Either way, that's a big problem.

Exactly! How is letting a 14% 3 point shooting big taking the most 3 point attempts the best shots or shots for Xavier?

[CP05XU08CU13]

Love how the winner of Marquette v. Creighton will get to 10 conference wins before Xavier. Examples of two coaches that get the most out of their players. If Christopher does not pull the trigger after this season, then he needs to go as well. The program continues to decline under Steele. Watching other Big East teams get better over the course of the season while Xavier continues to struggle should be enough evidence for Christopher. Extremely frustrating to watch the decline of this team as we near March!

[Xavier]

Doesn’t McDermott have some similar choke jobs to Mack in the tournament? I just remember thinking the team with his son was going to do great and they lost pretty early

[xudash]

How is this for a narrative:

Regardless of how the season turns out, and I am assuming that it is not going to turn out well by our standards, Steele is let go.

Sean Miller is brought back as the HC. Think about that as you will, but it is the redemption Trail for Sean Miller. It comes with the caveat that he will not leave Xavier for a minimum of 10 years, assuming good health and positive results on his part. Frankly, I’m not sure we would even need a contract to lock him up for the long term. I believe he would relish the chance to do it all over again.

From there, he becomes the coach that takes the Buick all the way to the F4.

[CP05XU08CU13]

Doesn’t McDermott have some similar choke jobs to Mack in the tournament? I just remember thinking the team with his son was going to do great and they lost pretty early

The expectations at Creighton are certainly not as high as Xavier. They are essentially happy to make the tournament. Omaha is not an easy place to recruit to, and thus McDermott does a good job of getting the most out of his players. Marquette has higher expectations for sure having won a national championship previously. Shaka has them trending in the right direction during his first season. Steele reminds me a lot of Steve Wojciechowski. Hopefully, Xavier does not hold onto Steele as long as Marquette held onto Wojo.

[JTG]

How is this for a narrative:

Regardless of how the season turns out, and I am assuming that it is not going to turn out well by our standards, Steele is let go.

Sean Miller is brought back as the HC. Think about that as you will, but it is the redemption Trail for Sean Miller. It comes with the caveat that he will not leave Xavier for a minimum of 10 years, assuming good health and positive results on his part. Frankly, I’m not sure we would even need a contract to lock him up for the long term. I believe he would relish the chance to do it all over again.

From there, he becomes the coach that takes the Buick all the way to the F4.
Dash, I'm guessing most of the fan base would be thrilled.

[Masterofreality]

On this Presidents Day, I’m reminded of a quote from the truly great President Ronald Reagan. You can change the word “Freedom” to “Xavier Basketball Success” and “generation” to “coach” and it is appropriate:

“ Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”

Also. The student section pics of them holding up President placards. Still one of the great trolls.

[xukeith]

How is this for a narrative:

Regardless of how the season turns out, and I am assuming that it is not going to turn out well by our standards, Steele is let go.

Sean Miller is brought back as the HC. Think about that as you will, but it is the redemption Trail for Sean Miller. It comes with the caveat that he will not leave Xavier for a minimum of 10 years, assuming good health and positive results on his part. Frankly, I’m not sure we would even need a contract to lock him up for the long term. I believe he would relish the chance to do it all over again.

From there, he becomes the coach that takes the Buick all the way to the F4.

I loved Miller as much as the next guy but don't give any coach a blank check. Put in incentives. Nobody gets a free pass.

[xudash]

I loved Miller as much as the next guy but don't give any coach a blank check. Put in incentives. Nobody gets a free pass.

No blank check intended. The broadbrush idea is that he would stay for a long time, subject to good health and good performance. He truly found the place hard to leave the first time around, and that is when we were still stuck in the A10.

[UCGRAD4X]

No blank check intended. The broadbrush idea is that he would stay for a long time, subject to good health and good performance. He truly found the place hard to leave the first time around, and that is when we were still stuck in the A10.

I hope we would expect any hire to stay for a long time. We need to get to a point where we are no longer a steppingstone program. We seemed to be near that until Mack's turncoat. Now we have taken a huge step backwards. I don't like the idea of Miller coming back but he may be one coach who would not see the job as a gateway to a greener pastures seeing how it worked out the first time.

[xu82]

I hope we would expect any hire to stay for a long time. We need to get to a point where we are no longer a steppingstone program. We seemed to be near that until Mack's turncoat. Now we have taken a huge step backwards. I don't like the idea of Miller coming back but he may be one coach who would not see the job as a gateway to a greener pastures seeing how it worked out the first time.

He’s been to the greener pasture, and he stepped in something a cow left behind. Hopefully he learned from that.

I don’t expect it to happen, but I’d be thrilled to have him back.

[xudash]

We seem to have a collective "stepping stone" mentality about the Xavier HC job here. I understand that, insofar as that is what we experienced from Staak through Mack. However, as it has been mentioned here repeatedly, Staak through Miller was all about the program building through the MCC and the A10.

We now have ALL of the critical program elements in place, including conference affiliation. That aspect of it is almost dreamy: no football program to play second fiddle to, the BET at MSG, overall great composition of the conference, including great cities, etc.

We are no longer a stepping stone, by definition. We are a major basketball program in a major conference. Does that keep us from losing a coach under certain circumstances? Of course not. But it means that we are now better positioned to keep the right guy for a while if the right guy comes along. We still can't compete with the stupid money, but a lot more pressure and b/s comes with that stupid money. Ask any of the guys who are still alive who left us, or who left other programs for a bigger job. And the stupid money comes with the second fiddle status, period. End of story.

Wright, in particular, and Few are patient men who have a little more in the life balance hopper. They've been rewarded for that. And they're enjoying the decisions they made to stay put. They are visible - very and painfully visible - to every coach throughout the U.S. when it comes to thriving through continuity.

IF we get the right guy on board, and if he proves successful, he will be looking at a 7-digit package in relative short order. Beyond that reality, there will only truly only be a relative handful of jobs that could/would be more attractive to him than the Xavier job, assuming he is built for moving on.

I still think we can get the right guy on Victory Parkway and keep him for a while. I had hoped that Travis was that guy. I can't see him escaping the hole he has dug himself at this point.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Doesn’t McDermott have some similar choke jobs to Mack in the tournament? I just remember thinking the team with his son was going to do great and they lost pretty early

Yes. I think McDermott is the 2nd best coach in the BE, which doesnt say a whole lot for the BE coaches. A lot of mediocre (terrible tourney results with some really good teams) after Jay Wright.

[D-West & PO-Z]

How is this for a narrative:

Regardless of how the season turns out, and I am assuming that it is not going to turn out well by our standards, Steele is let go.

Sean Miller is brought back as the HC. Think about that as you will, but it is the redemption Trail for Sean Miller. It comes with the caveat that he will not leave Xavier for a minimum of 10 years, assuming good health and positive results on his part. Frankly, I’m not sure we would even need a contract to lock him up for the long term. I believe he would relish the chance to do it all over again.

From there, he becomes the coach that takes the Buick all the way to the F4.

Dream scenario. I have heard Miller back to X though will never happen.

[XUGRAD80]

Yes. I think McDermott is the 2nd best coach in the BE, which doesnt say a whole lot for the BE coaches. A lot of mediocre (terrible tourney results with some really good teams) after Jay Wright.

You could say the same thing about a lot of coaches at a lot of schools in several different conferences. If you’re going to judge a coach purely on their results in March you’re going to be disappointed by the vast majority of them. There’s so much more than just the head coach that effects March Maddness results.

[D-West & PO-Z]

You could say the same thing about a lot of coaches at a lot of schools in several different conferences. If you’re going to judge a coach purely on their results in March you’re going to be disappointed by the vast majority of them. There’s so much more than just the head coach that effects March Maddness results.

I agree they can't be only judged by that, however, when you have some really good teams a number of times and consistently flame out in March it's going to put a damper on your resume. It would be ok if you went on a run with other teams of yours occasionally who were as good (see Chris Mack) but when you never do that its a problem. Like or not these guys ultimately get judged on their results in March. The current BE coaches are severely lacking in that area outside of Wright.