UC ATHLETIC BUDGET Brutal

[xudash]

Brutal. Just brutal:

http://www.newsrecord.org/news/soaring-subsidies-uc-s-four-year-athletic-deficit-up-to/article_46de67b6-37a5-11e8-97ee-f740bda06336.html

It's like being on the Titanic on that fateful night. You finally see the iceberg, but you know the rudder isn't capable of turning you away from the collision.

[GIMMFD]

Wow each student paid $1,200 per year on average to cover the athletic department, jeeze UC needed that deep tournament run way more than we did

[xubrew]

Wow each student paid $1,200 per year on average to cover the athletic department, jeeze UC needed that deep tournament run way more than we did

Sort of.

Tuition at UC has basically been the same throughout this whole period. They haven't really raised it except for a rather minuscule amount, so they'd be paying the same amount whether that money was going to athletics or not. The real question is where was that money going before it went to athletics, and what (if anything) is being done to supplement that??

[paulxu]

Sort of.

Tuition at UC has basically been the same throughout this whole period. They haven't really raised it except for a rather minuscule amount, so they'd be paying the same amount whether that money was going to athletics or not. The real question is where was that money going before it went to athletics, and what (if anything) is being done to supplement that??

Huggy Bear Buyout?

[xubrew]

Huggy Bear Buyout?

I think his buyout was about $3 million. The irony was crazy. Most people have their lives jacked up when they get a DUI.
He ended up getting $3 million for not having to work. That was long before this, though.

[bjf123]

One student was quoted as saying “It's unfair to students who don’t go to these sporting events,” Dirr said. “Half of this money is probably going towards luxury items that athletes don’t necessarily need, such as alternate uniforms and warmups.”

I always thought uniforms and warmups were paid for my the shoe / apparel company whose name was on them, i.e. Nike, Adidas, etc. Maybe that’s only for FB and BB?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[xubrew]

One student was quoted as saying “It's unfair to students who don’t go to these sporting events,” Dirr said. “Half of this money is probably going towards luxury items that athletes don’t necessarily need, such as alternate uniforms and warmups.”

I always thought uniforms and warmups were paid for my the shoe / apparel company whose name was on them, i.e. Nike, Adidas, etc. Maybe that’s only for FB and BB?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

They are. The person who said that obviously doesn't know that.

[GIMMFD]

Sort of.

Tuition at UC has basically been the same throughout this whole period. They haven't really raised it except for a rather minuscule amount, so they'd be paying the same amount whether that money was going to athletics or not. The real question is where was that money going before it went to athletics, and what (if anything) is being done to supplement that??

Hmm, really?? That's strange then, it's kind of amazing that these universities can hide these fees and figures throughout various places, that does make me very curious about where it was if the tuition is relatively the same.. I wonder if someone prods along and finds out.

[kellernr]

Their subsidies will start to increase soon. UConn, UC and USF have all been receiving money from the Big East split and that pot dries up this year or next year.

[xudash]

Their subsidies will start to increase soon. UConn, UC and USF have all been receiving money from the Big East split and that pot dries up this year or next year.

Exactly. It's about to get a lot worse.

I believe they made a colossal mistake renovating Nippert the way they did. It's a moot point now, with respect to positioning a program for a P5 invite, but dumping over $70mm into a stadium renovation and coming away with just over 40k seats afterwards is a road to hell as far as the big boys are concerned.

Now they're putting money into 5/3. No doubt it needed a major overhaul, but it's another big number to put onto a highly stressed financial situation.

And then there are all the "quiet" cuts happening on the academic side.

It's not a good luck. And there is no good fix in sight.

[Masterofreality]

Exactly. It's about to get a lot worse.

I believe they made a colossal mistake renovating Nippert the way they did. It's a moot point now, with respect to positioning a program for a P5 invite, but dumping over $70mm into a stadium renovation and coming away with just over 40k seats afterwards is a road to hell as far as the big boys are concerned.

Now they're putting money into 5/3. No doubt it needed a major overhaul, but it's another big number to put onto a highly stressed financial situation.

And then there are all the "quiet" cuts happening on the academic side.

It's not a good luck. And there is no good fix in sight.

And they've probably been getting some rent money from FCC soccer. When that new stadium is built, assuming it is, that $$ from an outside source dries up too.

It's 11:45 am on April 9. 2018.....and the Borecats still SucK !!!

[xubrew]

The American's TV deal is up after next season, and I'm really curious to see what happens after that. I do think that Mike Aresco is an excellent commissioner that is more qualified than anyone else they could have hired to negotiate a solid TV deal. He came from CBS, he was big on structuring the current NCAA Tournament deal with CBS/Turner, he helped start the American Digital Network and I think he did it with the sole intention of lumping those rights in with the next TV deal in an attempt to make it more lucrative. It looks as if everything he has done for the last several years has been done with the negotiation of the next TV deal in mind. They may seek out a deal with Turner along with CBS. Who knows how much it would actually pay the league. I'll say this. I don't think they can do much worse than their current deal. So, at least they've got that going for them.

[kellernr]

The American's TV deal is up after next season, and I'm really curious to see what happens after that. I do think that Mike Aresco is an excellent commissioner that is more qualified than anyone else they could have hired to negotiate a solid TV deal. He came from CBS, he was big on structuring the current NCAA Tournament deal with CBS/Turner, he helped start the American Digital Network and I think he did it with the sole intention of lumping those rights in with the next TV deal in an attempt to make it more lucrative. It looks as if everything he has done for the last several years has been done with the negotiation of the next TV deal in mind. They may seek out a deal with Turner along with CBS. Who knows how much it would actually pay the league. I'll say this. I don't think they can do much worse than their current deal. So, at least they've got that going for them.I don't think they end getting the money they think they will get. I've seen a lot of the aac posters saying around 10mil per year per team. I think they will be around 6mil

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Masterofreality]

The American's TV deal is up after next season, and I'm really curious to see what happens after that. I do think that Mike Aresco is an excellent commissioner that is more qualified than anyone else they could have hired to negotiate a solid TV deal. He came from CBS, he was big on structuring the current NCAA Tournament deal with CBS/Turner, he helped start the American Digital Network and I think he did it with the sole intention of lumping those rights in with the next TV deal in an attempt to make it more lucrative. It looks as if everything he has done for the last several years has been done with the negotiation of the next TV deal in mind. They may seek out a deal with Turner along with CBS. Who knows how much it would actually pay the league. I'll say this. I don't think they can do much worse than their current deal. So, at least they've got that going for them.

Except for putting their showcase conference basketball tournament in awful venues where no one travels to or wants to go see.

[kellernr]

FCC currently pays 5k per home game and an additional 20k per season. UC isn't making much off of them.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[xubrew]

I don't think they end getting the money they think they will get. I've seen a lot of the aac posters saying around 10mil per year per team. I think they will be around 6mil

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

$10 million seems like a lot, although I suppose it's possible. Seemingly every TV deal comes out to be more than what I think it should be. Kind of like you I was thinking it would be between $6-$8 million per school. That's everything. Football, basketball, women's basketball with UConn, the championship games, the tournament, and the rights to American Digital.

[GoMuskies]

Except for putting their showcase conference basketball tournament in awful venues where no one travels to or wants to go see.

They're slowly fixing that. Will be in Memphis this year, which will be empty unless Penny shocks the world and they're good. The year after will be in Dallas, and they'll finally draw some crowds.

[xubrew]

Exactly. It's about to get a lot worse.

I believe they made a colossal mistake renovating Nippert the way they did. It's a moot point now, with respect to positioning a program for a P5 invite, but dumping over $70mm into a stadium renovation and coming away with just over 40k seats afterwards is a road to hell as far as the big boys are concerned.

Now they're putting money into 5/3. No doubt it needed a major overhaul, but it's another big number to put onto a highly stressed financial situation.

And then there are all the "quiet" cuts happening on the academic side.

It's not a good luck. And there is no good fix in sight.

What all have they cut?? That's the real issue. It's not so much that the students are subsidizing it because the cost of tuition has been about the same. It's that something else that used to be funded is now not being funded.

[Juice]

Exactly. It's about to get a lot worse.

I believe they made a colossal mistake renovating Nippert the way they did. It's a moot point now, with respect to positioning a program for a P5 invite, but dumping over $70mm into a stadium renovation and coming away with just over 40k seats afterwards is a road to hell as far as the big boys are concerned.

Now they're putting money into 5/3. No doubt it needed a major overhaul, but it's another big number to put onto a highly stressed financial situation.

And then there are all the "quiet" cuts happening on the academic side.

It's not a good luck. And there is no good fix in sight.

And they didn't fix the major issues there which were small concourses, bad concessions, and long bathroom lines. All those problems remain.

[Xavier]

The renovation was simply to become more attractive to power 5 conference. IF they go to one in the next few years (and I assume Big 12 is the only one they'd go to?) then it will become worth it.

[paulxu]

If that stadium was in the SEC, the visiting team could buy all the seats...and it would be a home game on the road.

[kellernr]

The renovation was simply to become more attractive to power 5 conference. IF they go to one in the next few years (and I assume Big 12 is the only one they'd go to?) then it will become worth it.They won't be going anywhere that's P5. If they end up in the Big 12 it will be cause Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas bolted. Big 12 isn't a power conference without Texas and Oklahoma. Big 12 will be AAC 2.0

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[GoMuskies]

If that stadium was in the SEC, the visiting team could buy all the seats...and it would be a home game on the road.

Like they all do at Vandy.

[GIMMFD]

Like they all do at Vandy.

To be fair, Georgia did that to Notre Dame too this past season.


The renovation was simply to become more attractive to power 5 conference. IF they go to one in the next few years (and I assume Big 12 is the only one they'd go to?) then it will become worth it.

The Big 12 rights are up in 2022 I believe?? That's when people are assuming Texas and Oklahoma are going to bolt. If they happen to get a bid before that, which is a huge IF, it would be WVU trying to get a closer conference mate for all the flying/traveling they have to do, but even then I don't see Texas and Oklahoma pulling the trigger. I would much more realistically see them going after somewhere they could have a good market in, such as UCF, who's football program is fine.

[xu95]

I would say the chances are very slim for UC to get an invite to the Big 12. Maybe three to five years ago when they were halfway decent, but thanks to Tommy they can't beat their way out of a paper bag now. And it isn't like bringing in UC would bring in a TV market that will help them.

xu95

[xubrew]

The Big 12 was considering expansion because for some strange reason it meant more money per school until the end of their TV deal, and they wanted a championship game that they could sell to the networks.

It looks as though they assessed the situation and decided that while more money in the short term would be nice, it probably wasn't worth stomping all over the good faith they have with the network now because it could have come back to bight them later on. And...they got their championship game and sold it to Fox. I think they're happy with the way things are now.

Our basketball game against Cincinnati (coincidentally), which I thought was set up to lead into the Big 12 Championship game on the flagship network and score a huge rating, ended up instead being relegated to FS1. So, screw the Big 12!!!

[xudash]

The ACC has its own issues: https://fansided.com/2018/03/27/rams-new-stadium-going-cost-5-billion/

Seriously, this entire collegiate facilities/media arms race thing is totally out of hand.

[94GRAD]

The ACC has its own issues: https://fansided.com/2018/03/27/rams-new-stadium-going-cost-5-billion/

Seriously, this entire collegiate facilities/media arms race thing is totally out of hand.

The Rams are going to CRUSH everyone in the ACC let alone the rest of D1 football programs.

[Masterofreality]

The Rams are going to CRUSH everyone in the ACC let alone the rest of D1 football programs.

We're talking the FORDHAM Rams, of the A......10 right?

[xubrew]

The Rams are going to CRUSH everyone in the ACC let alone the rest of D1 football programs.

The Rams are going to the ACC?? Things are getting out of hand. I mean, just look at how far outside the geographic footprint they are!

[Masterofreality]

Back to UC, this article would be about SucKS if they somehow got into the Big 12.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2018/06/28/college-football-overspending-catching-up-these-big-time-schools/736222002/

2292

[GIMMFD]

Back to UC, this article would be about SucKS if they somehow got into the Big 12.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2018/06/28/college-football-overspending-catching-up-these-big-time-schools/736222002/

2292

The more I think of it, the less I see it happening, the only school that would truly enjoy UC in the Big 12 is WVU, and that's due to proximity and a old "rival".. I use that word very loosely here btw. The rest wouldn't really care too much, and I would think would rather have a UCF, USF, etc. to open up a Florida pipeline and get the exposure of the population of Florida. Ohio State is going to rule king in football in Ohio, and even with UC in the Big 12, I doubt it would reach enough viewers to be meaningful.

[rosaliecea]

this is so unfair to those students who pay their tuition..

[xubrew]

I just looked this up. According to the Chronicle of Higher Education UC has not raised it's tuition since 2014. They've actually barely raised it at all since 2007. I think out of state has gone up about $3k since then, and in-state has gone up about $1k. Sports aside, basketball aside, and rivalries aside, I really have to applaud UC as an institution for making what I think is an obvious effort to not burden the students by continuing to raise tuition year after year after year like so many other schools have done. Whatever it is they're spending their money on, and however much it is that they're spending, they're not milking the students as a means of getting it. All this handwringing about how this is such a burden on students is either misinformed, or a flat out false insinuation by someone who wants to push their own agenda. In a time where so many schools have been raising tuition, UC hasn't been. Good for them.

Now, it is ENTIRELY fair to question what cuts they've been making in order to pay for some of this athletics stuff. But, they haven't been raising tuition.

[paulxu]

Have they been however, raising "student fees?"

[xubrew]

Have they been however, raising "student fees?"

That's part of the tuition. If they have, then they've been lowering fees for something else.

EDIT: Funny, yet sad, story. There was once a div1 university that charged athletics fees. People freaked out. So, they decided to do away with athletics fees and nearly double the "student activities fees." Everyone was happy. The athletic department ended up with way more money and no one complained.

[Masterofreality]

"FREE COLLEGE FOR EVERYONE"- Bernie Sanders and AOC. :sign-wtf:

[GoMuskies]

"FREE COLLEGE FOR EVERYONE"- Bernie Sanders and AOC. :sign-wtf:

Now, now MOR. Everyone should get to experience 13th grade.

[xubrew]

Yunno, I do kind of wonder if, or when, American students will realize that there are A LOT of colleges in Europe that they can go to for free. It's not a typical American college experience, and I know a lot of people want that, but living in Greece, or Germany, or Sweden, or France, or Denmark while going to school for free is hardly a bad experience. Travel to and from may bet a little pricey, but nowhere near the cost of what it costs for most students to go to school over here.

[muskiefan82]

What confuses me is how my kid gets essentially a free ride offer from out of state schools and very little from in-state schools. Ohio has something wrong with it.

[sirthought]

Student fees and tuition are not the same


UC does apply fees to a lesser extent than other schools, however.

[xubrew]

Student fees and tuition are not the same


UC does apply fees to a lesser extent than other schools, however.

I think we are splitting hairs a little bit. When the category is listed as 'TUITION AND FEES' and it has not changed, then I assume the total amount that full time students are required to pay has not gone up.

I do not know how UC is paying for this. I just think I know how they're NOT paying for it. Maybe they cut a bunch of faculty and hired adjuncts. Maybe a parking pass now costs $5000. Maybe they're gouging students who aren't full time or syphoning off the branch campuses some how. Maybe they admit more and more people from out of state and less and less students from in state (that might sort of answer MuskieFan82's question). I don't know. I'm a little curious, but not curious enough to actually look into it.

[sirthought]

Tuition is the part that hasn't changed much. The fees part has raised dramatically, and it has less state oversight.

[xudash]

I think we are splitting hairs a little bit. When the category is listed as 'TUITION AND FEES' and it has not changed, then I assume the total amount that full time students are required to pay has not gone up.

I do not know how UC is paying for this. I just think I know how they're NOT paying for it. Maybe they cut a bunch of faculty and hired adjuncts. Maybe a parking pass now costs $5000. Maybe they're gouging students who aren't full time or syphoning off the branch campuses some how. Maybe they admit more and more people from out of state and less and less students from in state (that might sort of answer MuskieFan82's question). I don't know. I'm a little curious, but not curious enough to actually look into it.

They've been making cuts or not filling positions on the academic side. That's been documented.

[xucub]

UC is banking / borrowing on 2 theories. The first theory is that expansion will occur. That is a flawed path to follow. The whirlwind of expansion and realignment that occured 6- 7 years ago has clearly come to a standstill. The P5 conferences have (in football) set their tables and are enjoying their very rich meals. Everyone else is left to fight for scraps. And expansion does not do the P5 much good because they already have full plates (schedules) for football. Therre is little room to add games to the schedules. There may be more realignment somewhere in the future, but how many years can UC keep losing millions in the hope that a payday comes? (And remember that most say that costs increase dramatically once in those conferences.)

The second flaw in UC's theory is that if realignent occurs, they will get in. Many have surmised that the P5 will achieve addition by subtraction, that is, they will actually decrease the number of P-type leagues from 5 to 4. Specifically, 4 leagues of 12 teams each. (Right there is your basketball tournament of 48 teams.) The thinking is that there are schools that simply do not play at the P level (think Rutgers and Missouri, and until recently Northwestern) and should be dropped from those conferences. (Remember the A10 adding Fordham? That added nothing to the league and Fordham remains a proverbial bottom feeder or bottom sucker of the money.) If schools are being dropped, it would be hard to imagine that invitations would be sent to already-perceived lower schools (uc)

[xubrew]

They better be banking on their next media deal, because that really is their best option. It's not even their best option so much as it is their ONLY option.

[xudash]

UC is banking / borrowing on 2 theories. The first theory is that expansion will occur. That is a flawed path to follow. The whirlwind of expansion and realignment that occured 6- 7 years ago has clearly come to a standstill. The P5 conferences have (in football) set their tables and are enjoying their very rich meals. Everyone else is left to fight for scraps. And expansion does not do the P5 much good because they already have full plates (schedules) for football. Therre is little room to add games to the schedules. There may be more realignment somewhere in the future, but how many years can UC keep losing millions in the hope that a payday comes? (And remember that most say that costs increase dramatically once in those conferences.)

The second flaw in UC's theory is that if realignent occurs, they will get in. Many have surmised that the P5 will achieve addition by subtraction, that is, they will actually decrease the number of P-type leagues from 5 to 4. Specifically, 4 leagues of 12 teams each. (Right there is your basketball tournament of 48 teams.) The thinking is that there are schools that simply do not play at the P level (think Rutgers and Missouri, and until recently Northwestern) and should be dropped from those conferences. (Remember the A10 adding Fordham? That added nothing to the league and Fordham remains a proverbial bottom feeder or bottom sucker of the money.) If schools are being dropped, it would be hard to imagine that invitations would be sent to already-perceived lower schools (uc)

I agree with you overall.

Some thoughts or tweaks though:

With regard to the issue of the P5 leaving the NCAA Basketball Tournament as it presently exists, I have zero, and I mean ZERO concern for that ever happening. Two foundational reasons: One: the P5 has always been about solving for football, period, end of story. Two: they could not possibly replicate the broadcast value of the existing tournament by going to their own "club" deal; not even close. Adding to the point, if you happened to catch the CBS pre-game show last Sunday, you witnessed Seth Davis preaching about letting better mid-majors into the tournament over the likes of weaker, middling power conference schools. Clark Kellogg agreed with him completely. Get past that it is an anecdotal point.
Regardless of what anyone may think of him personally, he's right. And the P5 AD's know he's right. And the CBS, et al executives know he's right. The P5 won't muck up the NCAAT.

Most of what I've heard about the next big restructure, if it occurs due to media driven outcomes is that it will either kind of look the way it does now with 5 conferences, or they'll morph into 4 conferences, but with 14 members each. The B1G and SEC are already there. I really doubt either conference would cut their membership. The ACC will have to figure out the ND thing. The Pac12 is the one that is in the hardest position to solve for going to 14. But to your point, it is more likely that the next realignment will lead to less room at the inn versus creating more room in it. Besides, at this point, UC is clearly behind the two directional Florida schools and Houston when it comes to this beauty contest. And God only knows at what level of delusion the UCONN fan base is still operating when it comes to their chances for rescue.

Let's also recall that the Big XII went through an exhaustive consideration of expansion and determined that the (media) figures could not be made to work. At some point, if you're not already lucky enough to be in the club like a BC, Wake Forest, Iowa State, etc., you just may happen to love a program that simply doesn't move anyone's needle enough to care about moving your program up.

There is a collegiate sports hell, and the AAC and the A10, among others, have found it. And the AAC's next media deal will not turn down hell's temperature enough to matter; it will not be enough to make all this sustainable for the bearputties.

[xubrew]

The figure I've heard (take that for what it's worth) is that ESPN would go $500 million for 7 years. That's just under $6 million per school per year, which is a lot more than what they're getting now, but still not what I would call "a lot" when compared to what the P5 gets. I've also been told that UCF, South Florida, Houston, Memphis, and Cincinnati would get bigger shares. How much bigger, I have no idea. Strangely enough, UConn is not in that group.

I don't know who else they're talking to, or whether or not they think they can get more than that. Michael Aresco came from CBS, and has played a role in some pretty big deals in the past. He was hired primarily to negotiate the next media deal. I guess we will see how well he does.

[GoMuskies]

I assume Wichita State and Navy would get the smallest shares (with Wichita State's being smaller than Navy since football>>>>>basketball).