Should Stanley Burrell's Number Be Retired?

[Muskie]

13th All-Time on X's Points list with 1,612 points. He played for what is largely considered to be Xavier's best team ever. In addition, Seth Davis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth_Davis) (Sports Illustrated (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Illustrated) and CBS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBS)) named Burrell as the Captain of his ninth annual "All-Glue" Team an SI.com column. Burrell was named to the National All-Defensive First Team (rivals.com) and the National Defensive All-America Team (collegeinsider.com). ESPN (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN) analyst Jay Bilas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Bilas) had him among his six National Defensive Player of the Year candidates.

Does Stanley's number belong in the rafters?

[MauriceX]

13th All-Time on X's Points list with 1,612 points. He played for what is largely considered to be Xavier's best team ever. In addition, Seth Davis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth_Davis) (Sports Illustrated (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Illustrated) and CBS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBS)) named Burrell as the Captain of his ninth annual "All-Glue" Team an SI.com column. Burrell was named to the National All-Defensive First Team (rivals.com) and the National Defensive All-America Team (collegeinsider.com). ESPN (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN) analyst Jay Bilas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Bilas) had him among his six National Defensive Player of the Year candidates.

Does Stanley's number belong in the rafters?

While Burrell was an excellent player, I do believe that he is short of number retiring. If you look at the caliber of players who have had their number retired (Larkin, Hill, Grant, West), I believe that is another tier where only the truly dominant belong. Not trying to take anything from Stanley, but he just wasn't at that level.

[THRILLHOUSE]

While Burrell was an excellent player, I do believe that he is short of number retiring. If you look at the caliber of players who have had their number retired (Larkin, Hill, Grant, West), I believe that is another tier where only the truly dominant belong. Not trying to take anything from Stanley, but he just wasn't at that level.

Agree. Huge fan of Stan, but not quite number retirement level. Glad he's in the X HOF though.

[Juice]

Agree. Huge fan of Stan, but not quite number retirement level. Glad he's in the X HOF though.

I think his HOF induction is the proper level of recognition for him. I'm trying to think of other players I think maybe should have their numbers retired: Posey, Tu? Anyone else?

[D-West & PO-Z]

While Burrell was an excellent player, I do believe that he is short of number retiring. If you look at the caliber of players who have had their number retired (Larkin, Hill, Grant, West), I believe that is another tier where only the truly dominant belong. Not trying to take anything from Stanley, but he just wasn't at that level.

Agree with this. I would retire Sato's number before Stan the Man's. Stan was a very good player for X and selfless but he falls short of number retirement in my eyes.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I think his HOF induction is the proper level of recognition for him. I'm trying to think of other players I think maybe should have their numbers retired: Posey, Tu? Anyone else?

Yeah I think Sato would be next if anyone but Tu and Posey are good choices for potential number retirements. Posey gets hurt by only playing 3 years. Tu had balls of steel as we all know and a lot of memorable moments. His junior year numbers are ridiculous too. He would be very close.

I'd probably say Sato, Tu, then Posey. I am also working off a more relatively recent Xavier basketball history (mid 90's forward) so my knowledge of some older X players who would be deserving of consideration is limited.

[MuskieXU]

I think his HOF induction is the proper level of recognition for him. I'm trying to think of other players I think maybe should have their numbers retired: Posey, Tu? Anyone else?

Sato, Posey, and Tu are the only 3 I would consider currently.

Sato is 3rd on Xaviers all time scoring list with 2,005 points, 8th all time in rebounding, and also the all time leader in 3s made. Its worth noting that the other 3 Muskies in the 2k points club all have their numbers retired (Larkin, West, Hill.) He was the second leading scorer on what was the first top 10 Xavier team averaging 18 a game, second to only DWests 20 a game. He also lead Xavier to their first E8. With all these in mind, and the added fact that he was a fan favorite and great representation of Xavier, I think we should retire his number.

I was a bit too young to remember the majority of Poseys career, but his case comes down to whether or not youre going to punish him for only playing 3 years. If you expand his career to a 4th (healthy) year he would easily be 3rd all time on Xaviers rebounding list, and more likely than not wouldve been 3rd all time in scoring as well. He played on some great Xavier teams, arguably even the best to that point, but didnt make the tourney his last year for whatever thats worth. Had as good a first 3 years as any Xavier player, but left early. I dont know the exact criteria to have your number retired, but Posey is clearly the second best Musketeer since Pete Gillen. I would lean towards retiring his as well, #41 is as iconic a number for Xavier as any besides #30 and #23.

Tu is also borderline but probably closer to being out. Top 10 in scoring and I believe 3rd all time in assists. Unfortunately some of the things that happened while he was at X muddy the water a bit as well. Has a case, but just didnt quite transform the program the way the others did IMO.

[Muskie]

If you're not retiring Stan's Number, then there's no way Holloway's number is being retired. At least in my opinion.

[Blue Blooded-05]

Stanley Burrell was a great TEAM player. He was top a scorer when the team needed him to be. He morphed his game to be an elite defender when the team needed him to be. He was a great ball handler. He was, in my opinion, the best passing 2-guard we've ever had (although Myles Davis is in the discussion).

His value as a team player and leader was apparent to everyone and it gave him the respect of fans and opponents... especially Phil Martelli.

However, getting ones number retired is an individual honor. Stanley's greatest traits were difficult to quantify. He doesn't get his number retired, but will maintain his cult status as a all-time great Musketeer.

[GoMuskies]

Posey didn't leave early. He was a Prop 48 and spent his freshman year at O'Connor terrorizing intramural warriors like yours truly.

[MuskieXU]

If you're not retiring Stan's Number, then there's no way Holloway's number is being retired. At least in my opinion.

I agree with you, but whether they will and whether they should are two different arguments. I get that Stan was a huge fan favorite and had a ton of intangibles that dont show up in the box score, but at the end of the day Tu was a better basketball player and I dont think there is much room for debate there. You could easily make the case that Tu is the second best guard in Xavier's history. I'm not making a case for or against Tu's number being retired, but the case is there for Tu, while I dont really see it for Burrell, as good as he was.

[Muskie]

While I agree with the sentiment and reasoning, it just seems odd (at least to me) that we don't have a member of (arguably) the best team in X history in the rafters. Having your number retired is an individual honor, but I think Burrell's total contributions warrant having his number up there.

[GoMuskies]

Burrell wasn't the best player on that team, though. And retiring Lavender's or Brown's number really wouldn't make much sense.

[markchal]

[QUOTE=Blue Blooded-05;572968]He was, in my opinion, the best passing 2-guard we've ever had (although Myles Davis is in the discussion).

/QUOTE]

I think Crawford was better than both.

[GoMuskies]

Crawford passed????

[Xavier]

Love Stan but agree with everyone here, HOF game guy but not retired number. Sato should though...wonder if they are waiting for his career to be over so he'd fly over for it? Probably not. Who decides whose number should be retired?

[THRILLHOUSE]

If you're not retiring Stan's Number, then there's no way Holloway's number is being retired. At least in my opinion.

Tu has a stronger case for a number retirement than Stan, and it isn't even close in my opinion.

Tu is #6 in all time scoring. #3 in all time assists. Was an All-American. Conference player of the year. 2 time first team All Conference.

I think a good case can be made for Sato since he ranks so highly in so many all-time X records. Of course I know people who were around for the way back days of X basketball would probably want #10 retired for both Sato and Steve Thomas.

[Pete Delkus]

Stan retired #?

No way.

[muethibp]

The only person in the league of the four with their numbers retired is Sato. There are others before SB, though he was a great player for us and it was good to see him yesterday.

[Masterofreality]

No one loves Stan Burrell more than me. But retiring a number is reserved for only the absolute best of all time. David West and By Larkin were a cut way above. Being inducted into the Hall of Fame is a very appropriate level.

[LA Muskie]

No one loves Stan Burrell more than me. But retiring a number is reserved for only the absolute best of all time. David West and By Larkin were a cut way above. Being inducted into the Hall of Fame is a very appropriate level.
I absolutely agree 100%. This is no knock on Stan. He deserved the HOF. But a retired number has been -- and should remain -- EXTREMELY rare. That award should be reserved for truly transcendent players. And for my money, I think an XU degree, a minimum of 3 yrs in an XU uniform, and a particularly high level of personal character should be required. The only player I can think of who fits that bill, and who has not yet had his number retired, is Romain Sato. But admittedly I don't know much about anyone pre-1990.

[bleedXblue]

Ro should be in the rafters no doubt.

4 year starter
Top 10 in scoring
Top 10 in rebounding
Exemplary character

Everything required to be honored just like Larkin, Hill and West

[Lloyd Braun]

I absolutely agree 100%. This is no knock on Stan. He deserved the HOF. But a retired number has been -- and should remain -- EXTREMELY rare. That award should be reserved for truly transcendent players. And for my money, I think an XU degree, a minimum of 3 yrs in an XU uniform, and a particularly high level of personal character should be required. The only player I can think of who fits that bill, and who has not yet had his number retired, is Romain Sato. But admittedly I don't know much about anyone pre-1990.

I loved Romain's game... though I'm not sure he was transcendent. In fact one could argue that he was not even ever the best player on any Xavier team. Not saying I would take Chalmers over Sato, just saying it's not a slam dunk for me and a decent argument could be made.

[Lloyd Braun]

Ro should be in the rafters no doubt.

4 year starter
Top 10 in scoring
Top 10 in rebounding
Exemplary character

Everything required to be honored just like Larkin, Hill and West

Hmm this is a good argument.... tough call for me.

[Masterofreality]

If #10 goes in it HAS to be for BOTH Steve Thomas & Romain.

[LA Muskie]

If #10 goes in it HAS to be for BOTH Steve Thomas & Romain.

I don't know much about Steve Thomas but I have heard this before. Works for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[D-West & PO-Z]

Yeah Romain wasnt the best player on 3 of his teams only because he was on the same team with West for 3 years. He was the best player his senior year regardless of Chalmer's torrid 2nd half of his senior year. Chalmers isnt even close to the overall player Sato was.

I think Sato is deserving.

[paulxu]

If #10 goes in it HAS to be for BOTH Steve Thomas & Romain.

I support this.

[X-ceptional]

Unquestionable HOF'er, but agree that his number should not be retired. However, his rant against that "pathetic" conference should be blown up on a banner and hung in the rafters.

"I've got champions in that locker room!"

[X Factor]

Ro should be in the rafters no doubt.

4 year starter
Top 10 in scoring
Top 10 in rebounding
Exemplary character

Everything required to be honored just like Larkin, Hill and West


Totally agree Sato's #10 should be in the rafters.

More specifically, he is 3rd all time in scoring (behind only Larkin and West), 8th all time in rebounding (as a 6'4 guard).

Random fact: Sato scored the first points ever in the Cintas Center with a corner three, during the first game of his freshman year against Miami OH.

[BENWAR]

13th All-Time on X's Points list with 1,612 points. He played for what is largely considered to be Xavier's best team ever. In addition, Seth Davis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth_Davis) (Sports Illustrated (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Illustrated) and CBS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBS)) named Burrell as the Captain of his ninth annual "All-Glue" Team an SI.com column. Burrell was named to the National All-Defensive First Team (rivals.com) and the National Defensive All-America Team (collegeinsider.com). ESPN (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN) analyst Jay Bilas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Bilas) had him among his six National Defensive Player of the Year candidates.

Does Stanley's number belong in the rafters?

Not even close!

[XUMIOH12]

No

[xu82]

HOF? Yes. Retired number? Sorry, but no. That is only for the elite.

[sirthought]

Stan deserves the Hall of Fame status from Xavier. I think retiring his number is a level he did not reach.

There were a couple years there where he was practically the only scoring option...or at least the only guy who seemed to want to take shots. Later it seemed like he lost his touch a bit, which ultimately turned out great because he focused on defense. Each season he became exactly the player we needed him to be. If you retired numbers for that, we'd have a lot of jerseys up there.

[Muskie in dayton]

If #10 goes in it HAS to be for BOTH Steve Thomas & Romain.

And a share for Jumpin' Jamal Walker too.

[Drew]

No

[birdman71]

NO

[X-band '01]

I say retire Romain's number the next time Dayton returns to Cintas. Also concur with the joint ceremony with Steve Thomas - he would have easily eclipsed 2,000 career points if he were able to play 4 years as well (along with a 3-point line).

[xufan2434]

I think Sato should be in the discussion if they're going to do another number. But IMHO, Tu should be next. I know he didn't end up with as many points, but Tu was absolutely stone cold. How many times did he carry his team in a big game? I know it shouldn't be measured solely on memorable moments, but that dude has to be in the Top 3 of most clutch Xavier players ever. His junior year stats are off the charts and basically did everything that year. The Brawl de-railed that senior season which sucks but he still willed that team to a S16 appearance and honestly had a chance at one of the best X comebacks against Baylor. There were definitely times where I thought he exemplified a "transcendent" performance

[KabeX]

SB was one of my favorite players ever. BUT - the fact that we're even debating the question answers the question. When retiring a number there should be little or no debate/doubt about it. The numbers in the rafters currently fit that category.

[KabeX]

And BTW - when Stan arrived he led the team in scoring as a Freshman - because that's what the team needed. Incredibly talented player. He had to work his s$$ off to become an elite defensive player. And he did just that. Selfless great player. It was a lot of fun watching him play and watching him develop. Had the heart of a lion as well. A WELL DESERVED HOF member!

[GoMuskies]

I don't think Tu makes the cut, either.

[xu82]

I don't think Tu makes the cut, either.

Agreed, not because he wasn't great, but because the bar should be very, very high.

[Drew]

Agreed, not because he wasn't great, but because the bar should be very, very high.

Tu is at least debatable. Burrell is not.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Maybe if Stan came out in a nice suit to accept his award instead of street clothing and a winter hat. Only Andy Mac had a suit on. I assume at the award banquet they all wore suits?

[bleedXblue]

Maybe if Stan came out in a nice suit to accept his award instead of street clothing and a winter hat. Only Andy Mac had a suit on. I assume at the award banquet they all wore suits?

I have no issue with what they wear. Be comfortable.....he's not getting elected to the Senate

[xu82]

I have no issue with what they wear. Be comfortable.....he's not getting elected to the Senate

He looked fine, and quite fit!

[xuinmd]

If #10 goes in it HAS to be for BOTH Steve Thomas & Romain.

mor is right again

[GoMuskies]

mor is right again

That's the second time? Congrats MOR! :)

[Juice]

Maybe if Stan came out in a nice suit to accept his award instead of street clothing and a winter hat. Only Andy Mac had a suit on. I assume at the award banquet they all wore suits?

Andy didn't have a suit on. He had on a blazer and slacks.

Are Stan's clothes really an issue? Jesus Christ.

[TUclutch]

Maybe if Stan came out in a nice suit to accept his award instead of street clothing and a winter hat. Only Andy Mac had a suit on. I assume at the award banquet they all wore suits?

It wasnt a suit, but other than the hat, the clothes were from a fitter/design company. Casual sure but he wasn't dressed like a bum and i wouldnt have urded the term street clothing. he had on shoes that were likely more expensive than almost anything I wear. Who the hell cares what they wore to the basketball game. And no they didn't all have suits on at the banquet.

[TUclutch]

But no, he isnt close to having his number retired

[XUMIOH12]

SB was one of my favorite players ever. BUT - the fact that we're even debating the question answers the question. When retiring a number there should be little or no debate/doubt about it. The numbers in the rafters currently fit that category.

Agreed. There should be no debate about someone getting their number retired, that is when you know it is truly deserved

[Emp]

We all loved the transformation and contributions Stanley made. And traveling 2+days from Poland to be inducted is testimony to his loyalty to X.

Those at the banquet reported he reached out to Sean about ending on a sour note, something I had never heard.

But no, way too many more qualified for jersey number retirement.

[nickgyp]

Agree with the thought that Steve Thomas' number should be retired after averaging over 30 ppg his junior year. WITHOUT A THREE POINT SHOT! Fun to watch; senior year cut short by leg injury. One of X's best ever.

[The Coz]

I'd retire Sato and Derrick Brown in a They were too good to stay in Dayton ceremony.

[The Coz]

Also, loved seeing Posey's Posse -Burrell brew Crew?- break out the Hammer hard hats kickin' it old school.

[Juice]

Also, loved seeing Posey's Posse -Burrell brew Crew?- break out the Hammer hard hats kickin' it old school.

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