Goodbye St. Louis!

[Masterofreality]

Rams moving back west...APPROVED!

[xubrew]

I guess if LA can't have two teams, then they don't want any!

Why would the Chargers or Raiders want to move to LA when they sell out all their games where they are, and when LA is already getting a team?? Serious question. I don't get it.

[Xville]

Sad day for me as I was born and raised in Saint louis. The NFL has completely shit on saint Louis now 3 times in 30 years. Cardinals leave, lose out on expansion, and then even though they come up with the only local stadium plan out of the three, they are the ones to leave. It sucks, but it would be worse if the organization wasn't such a failure, the stadium wasn't a shit hole, and the owner wasnot someone that did not give a crap about the product on the field.

[xu82]

I guess if LA can't have two teams, then they don't want any!

Why would the Chargers or Raiders want to move to LA when they sell out all their games where they are, and when LA is already getting a team?? Serious question. I don't get it.

Stadiums that allow for more kept revenue. Regular ticket sales are shared revenue. Boxes and ancillary revenue are kept by the team. Generate higher ticket prices for a new stadium, plus increase new revenue streams that you can capture a higher percentage of. As always, it comes down to the almighty dollar.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Does anyone in St. Louis care as long as they have the Cards?

That is the definition of a baseball city.

[Xville]

Does anyone in St. Louis care as long as they have the Cards?

That is the definition of a baseball city.

That's a popular narrative thrown around by national media but it's not really true and I know you went to school there so you have some perspective but bare with me. Its a strong sports town. Cards are number one but the blues are a strong 2...their attendance is phenomenal. Rams were supported very well up until the last 2-3 years when the rumors started about them leaving, and the team continued to be awful. I just wish that saint Louis would have been awarded an expansion team 20ish years ago instead of a horrible franchise that then got bought by a horrible owner who does not care about the product on the field.

[D-West & PO-Z]

That's a popular narrative thrown around by national media but it's not really true and I know you went to school there so you have some perspective but bare with me. Its a strong sports town. Cards are number one but the blues are a strong 2...their attendance is phenomenal. Rams were supported very well up until the last 2-3 years when the rumors started about them leaving, and the team continued to be awful. I just wish that saint Louis would have been awarded an expansion team 20ish years ago instead of a horrible franchise that then got bought by a horrible owner who does not care about the product on the field.

Yes, I didnt mean to imply it wasnt a strong sports town but as you said it was clearly number 3 on the list (I know there are tons of Blues fans). I was kidding to some extent. If St. Louis had to lose one of the teams the Rams would be their choice. Hopefully they get another team down the road.

[GoMuskies]

The Greatest Show on Turf was a thing to behold.

[Xville]

The Greatest Show on Turf was a thing to behold.

That was a fun 3-4 years surrounded by 16-17years of complete futility.

[XUFan09]

That was a fun 3-4 years surrounded by 16-17years of complete futility.
Agreed. The Rams have been embarrassing for a long time. I won't miss them.

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[XU 87]

The Rams owner is an interesting guy, and I don't mean that in a good way. He is a Missouri native (St. Louis Native?) who married Bud Walton's daughter (Bud is Sam's brother). He and his wife are worth billions. What I don't understand is why a Missouri guy, who I think lives in St. Louis, and who is worth billions, wants to move the Rams to LA. This seems equivalent to Bob Castellini moving the Reds to some other city.

Does anyone have an explanation? Does he want to turn his $8 billion in $9 billion?

[GoMuskies]

Of course he wants to make money. That's generally the point.

[xu82]

Of course he wants to make money. That's generally the point.

It's almost always the money. Doubt this is the exception.

Foot note: The new Bills owner was told he couldn't make money if he paid the $1.4 billion price. He responded that if he was looking to make money, he'd drill another well. I like my owner!

(Skip the fracking sucks comments, please.)

[drudy23]

When you have Walton money, do you need more?

[GoMuskies]

When you have Walton money, do you need more?
When has it ever been about need?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Second richest owner in the league, worth 11Billion.

Will finance the stadium on his own.

[D-West & PO-Z]

550 million just for the right to move the franchise.

[xu82]

When you have Walton money, do you need more?

When you have half-Walton-money, do you need that? More is always preferred. I come up somewhat short.

[XUFan09]

550 million just for the right to move the franchise.
Wow, that's a disgusting amount of money just for that.

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[GoMuskies]

Wow, that's a disgusting amount of money just for that.

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And it's likely a huge giveaway by the NFL.

[JTG]

I guess if LA can't have two teams, then they don't want any!

Why would the Chargers or Raiders want to move to LA when they sell out all their games where they are, and when LA is already getting a team?? Serious question. I don't get it.

I don't think either team sells out..definitely not the Chargers. Oakland stadium is a dump, and the fans are weirdos. NFL getting even with the Davis family for all the grief they caused NFL with lawsuits.

[LA Muskie]

550 million just for the right to move the franchise.

Quite the redistribution of wealth right there!


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[X-band '01]

I know they haven't been discussed yet, but what about the St. Louis Jaguars? Or is the NFL more hellbent on shipping them out to London?

[STL_XUfan]

The Rams owner is an interesting guy, and I don't mean that in a good way. He is a Missouri native (St. Louis Native?) who married Bud Walton's daughter (Bud is Sam's brother). He and his wife are worth billions. What I don't understand is why a Missouri guy, who I think lives in St. Louis, and who is worth billions, wants to move the Rams to LA. This seems equivalent to Bob Castellini moving the Reds to some other city.

Does anyone have an explanation? Does he want to turn his $8 billion in $9 billion?

Actually he lives in Columbia, Missouri.

The rumor I have always heard is that he wants to flip the team shortly after getting the stadium up and running. Regardless, I look forward to one day taking a pilgrimage to piss on his grave.

[murray87]

So who gets the 550 million? The NFL or the city of St. Louis? I heard that the Rams "broke" their lease so I guess it's got to be the city/stadium authority. On a related note, I sure hope the arrogant NFL doesn't move a team to London. (unless it's the Bengals!).

[Xville]

So who gets the 550 million? The NFL or the city of St. Louis? I heard that the Rams "broke" their lease so I guess it's got to be the city/stadium authority. On a related note, I sure hope the arrogant NFL doesn't move a team to London. (unless it's the Bengals!).

The rams didn't break their lease. St. Louis really screwed themselves on the details getting the Rams.....they had a lease that stated that I believe after 15 years, if the stadium was no longer in the top tier of nfl stadiums, the city/state would need to renovate the dome in order to get it there. Missouri said no at the time, and Kroenke sent it to an arbitrator who said that Kroenke was owed 700 million dollars. No one in their right mind is going to give an owner 700 million dollars of public money.

Anyways, once that happened, the rams went on a year to year lease with the dome. The 550 million goes to the multi-billionaire NFL and its billionaire owners. I really hope the NFL implodes on itself.

I think my hometown is pretty over the NFL at this point. I would hope they don't try to steal another team from another city...doubt it will ever happen but the only way I'd like to see the NFL in St. Louis again is thru expansion.

[paulxu]

No one in their right mind is going to give an owner 700 million dollars of public money. .

So, you're saying the people in Cincinnati are not in their right mind?

[Xville]

So, you're saying the people in Cincinnati are not in their right mind?

Pretty sure they weren't close to 700 million...think it was more like 500. The Rams offered 400 million which is a pretty good deal. However, Kroenke said nah I'll just privately fund an almost 2 billion stadium in LA.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704461304576216330349497852

[XU 87]

Actually he lives in Columbia, Missouri.

The rumor I have always heard is that he wants to flip the team shortly after getting the stadium up and running. Regardless, I look forward to one day taking a pilgrimage to piss on his grave.

I just don't understand a Missouri guy, who is named after Stan Musial and Enos Slaughter, moving the team to LA. I get it that he'll make a bundle of money doing this, but the guy is already worth $8 billion. I just don't understand how this Missouri native can just piss on his fellow Missourians for the sake of making some more money than he absolutely doesn't need and can't use.

Like I said, this is akin to Bob Castelllini moving the Reds to some other city because he can get better deal.

[STL_XUfan]

I just don't understand a Missouri guy, who is named after Stan Musial and Enos Slaughter, moving the team to LA. I get it that he'll make a bundle of money doing this, but the guy is already worth $8 billion. I just don't understand how this Missouri native can just piss on his fellow Missourians for the sake of making some more money than he absolutely doesn't need and can't use.

Like I said, this is akin to Bob Castelllini moving the Reds to some other city because he can get better deal.

I don't think you get to be that wealthy without at least some narcissistic tendencies. I do not think he cares about anything but his own ego and proving that he is better than the people on the other side of the negotiating table.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO0JaecRWy0

[XU 87]

I don't think you get to be that wealthy without at least some narcissistic tendencies. I do not think he cares about anything but his own ego and proving that he is better than the people on the other side of the negotiating table.



Apparently so. This guy apparently has no soul.

Most rich people try to give back to their community. This guy appears to think otherwise. He's just thinking about his next big deal.

[Xville]

Apparently so. This guy apparently has no soul.

That is also apparent when it comes to his concern for product on the field. The other teams he owns are terrible just like the Rams have been for more than a decade now....

Denver Nuggets
Colorado Avalanche
Colorado Rapids
Arsenal

The NFL are a bunch of slimy billionaire bastards who don't even follow their own guidelines. Goodell is a horrible human being.

[GoMuskies]

The guy can make a zillion dollars with an NFL team in LA, and you want him to turn it down because....reasons?!? OK.

[JTG]

Apparently so. This guy apparently has no soul.

Most rich people try to give back to their community. This guy appears to think otherwise. He's just thinking about his next big deal.

The guy married into the Walton family, who are maybe the slimiest of the slimy. They prey on the poor, pay lousy wages, and rely on the government to subsidize them thru healthcare, Medicare and Medicaid programs for their employees.

[XU 87]

The guy married into the Walton family, who are maybe the slimiest of the slimy. They prey on the poor, pay lousy wages, and rely on the government to subsidize them thru healthcare, Medicare and Medicaid programs for their employees.

Let's not turn this thread into a discussion about Wal-Mart. If you or anyone else doesn't like Walmart, don't shop or work there.

[Juice]

I know they haven't been discussed yet, but what about the St. Louis Jaguars? Or is the NFL more hellbent on shipping them out to London?

The city and the organization have made 63 million in renovations to the stadium the last couple years and also made a 90 million amphitheater agreement with Shad last year. The team isn't going anywhere for awhile.

[xubrew]

Should the Cincinnati Bearcats consider moving to Saint Louis?? It's a good sports town that would probably better support an NCAA Tournament caliber basketball program, as well as a bowl caliber football program. The facilities are probably better as well, and it might help their chances of getting into the Big Twelve. Something to think about.

[LA Muskie]

So who gets the 550 million? The NFL or the city of St. Louis? I heard that the Rams "broke" their lease so I guess it's got to be the city/stadium authority. On a related note, I sure hope the arrogant NFL doesn't move a team to London. (unless it's the Bengals!).
The money goes to the NFL and ultimately will be resdistributed to other teams. The NFL is offering $100 million in stadium assistance to both San Diego and Oakland in the event their teams stay there, so there could be up to $200 million going out to those cities. But the odds that both stay are pretty low. The NFL seems to want the Rams and Chargers in LA. But armed with the extra $100 million and a strong desire to keep their team, San Diego may well put up a fight. What Oakland will do I have no idea. My understanding of the mess up there is that the extra $100 million still leaves a ginormous gulf.

As for the Rams' lease, my understanding is that the City of St. Louis breached it by not maintaining/renovating it -- and that the Rams have already won an arbitration. I believe they are either free, or relatively free, to leave.

[Masterofreality]

Should the Cincinnati Bearcats consider moving to Saint Louis?? It's a good sports town that would probably better support an NCAA Tournament caliber basketball program, as well as a bowl caliber football program. The facilities are probably better as well, and it might help their chances of getting into the Big Twelve. Something to think about.

Laugh.......Out........Lowd (VD spelling) !!!!!!!!!!!

By the way, looking more and more like the Big 12 will get their desired compromise on their Conference Championship game that will basically eliminate any expansion talk. Soooooooooooo, sorrrrry, Clifton. :wasntme:

[LA Muskie]

I just don't understand a Missouri guy, who is named after Stan Musial and Enos Slaughter, moving the team to LA. I get it that he'll make a bundle of money doing this, but the guy is already worth $8 billion. I just don't understand how this Missouri native can just piss on his fellow Missourians for the sake of making some more money than he absolutely doesn't need and can't use.

Like I said, this is akin to Bob Castelllini moving the Reds to some other city because he can get better deal.

He probably feels like St. Louis has jerked him around for years. Billionaires can be a mistreated bunch, you know.

[LA Muskie]

The city and the organization have made 63 million in renovations to the stadium the last couple years and also made a 90 million amphitheater agreement with Shad last year. The team isn't going anywhere for awhile.

$63 million in upgrades to an NFL stadium is pretty much annual maintenance.

[Masterofreality]

$63 million in upgrades to an NFL stadium is pretty much annual maintenance.

Or a new scoreboard, that, you know plays more advertising.

[LA Muskie]

Or a new scoreboard, that, you know plays more advertising.
I don't disagree. I'm just saying that nowadays teams really need to be spending that kind of money on a nearly annual basis to keep their stadiums current. The "problem" stadiums in the NFL and other leagues (although for whatever reason the discrepancies are really pronounced in the NFL -- probably because of the public/private diistinctions) seem to languish for years without meaningful upgrades.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don't disagree. I'm just saying that nowadays teams really need to be spending that kind of money on a nearly annual basis to keep their stadiums current. The "problem" stadiums in the NFL and other leagues (although for whatever reason the discrepancies are really pronounced in the NFL -- probably because of the public/private diistinctions) seem to languish for years without meaningful upgrades.

Or cities.

Doesnt Cincinnati have to make upgrades whenever needed to keep PBS in the top 1/3 (or some number) of league stadiums?

[Xville]

Or cities.

Doesnt Cincinnati have to make upgrades whenever needed to keep PBS in the top 1/3 (or some number) of league stadiums?

That should never be written into a lease again but yes you are correct. They have to be in the upper half of stadiums I believe. Its pretty ridiculous, and it needs to go the way of the dodo bird.

[LA Muskie]

Or cities.

Doesnt Cincinnati have to make upgrades whenever needed to keep PBS in the top 1/3 (or some number) of league stadiums?

Good correction.


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[LA Muskie]

That should never be written into a lease again but yes you are correct. They have to be in the upper half of stadiums I believe. Its pretty ridiculous, and it needs to go the way of the dodo bird.

I agree. But then again I think public ownership of stadiums, where the tenants make nearly all the revenue, is patently absurd. NFL owners make enough money to own their own location. Or to rent it from a private landlord. Like every other business in America. Municipalities have made it far too easy for these sports teams to profit on the back of the taxpayers.


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[XU 87]

Good news! Rams owner says he still loves St. Louis and Missouri. He just has an odd way of showing his love. Maybe it's tough love.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25447787/rams-owner-i-love-st-louis-moving-to-la-in-best-interest-of-team

[X-band '01]

In fairness to the city of Los Angeles, the Rams did have the longest tenure (even if, ironically enough, they were originally formed in Cleveland) in LA as opposed to St. Louis. St. Louis has never had a team originally their own, but I don't blame fans for staying home when the Bidwills and Kroenkes of the world began looking elsewhere to make a quick buck. Much like Q has always opined that Cincinnati is shit out of luck if the Bengals ever leave, I think it will be a long time before St. Louis gets another NFL team. It's never going to be king in that town like the Cardinals are.

[Masterofreality]

In fairness to the city of Los Angeles, the Rams did have the longest tenure (even if, ironically enough, they were originally formed in Cleveland) in LA as opposed to St. Louis. St. Louis has never had a team originally their own, but I don't blame fans for staying home when the Bidwills and Kroenkes of the world began looking elsewhere to make a quick buck. Much like Q has always opined that Cincinnati is shit out of luck if the Bengals ever leave, I think it will be a long time before St. Louis gets another NFL team. It's never going to be king in that town like the Cardinals are.

What is somewhat interesting is that exactly 70 years ago to the absolute day the Rams were announced to be moving from Cleveland to Los Angeles. 70 exact years later, the Rams are announced to be moving from St. Louis to.....Los Angeles.

[XUFan09]

Frankly, I wouldn't mind if St. Louis never got an NFL team again. I grew up a Cardinals and Blues fan, and that was great. No need to spend exorbitant amounts of public money that doesn't really have a proportional positive impact on the community and involves probably one of the more corrupt organizations in sports.

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[Masterofreality]

Quite frankly, an NFL team, despite the outsized prestige of the city to have one in the average public's mind- is the sport that economically impacts the town the least.

-10 games for a stadium built to stand 365 days/year.
-If fully sold out = 700,000 customers for the 10 days.

Even the Cavs in the NBA draw a total of 820,000 and a bad baseball team will still draw over 1.5 million plus they bring people downtown anywhere from 45-81 dates/year that help bars, restaurants, etc. At least the facilities you construct are more utilized.

The NFL is a magic act.

[Xville]

The only thing that is really disappointing about the rams moving, is that if they would have accepted the new riverfront stadium in Saint louis it would have cleaned up area of the city that has been neglected for decades. If the stadium had gone in, it would have been great for the area around it. Now without that stadium (unless they somehow get an MLS team) that area is going to be neglected for the foreseeable future.

[MauriceX]

I used to live at the corner of Washington and 4th, so not far from the current stadium. The area I was in was fine, but a few blocks north of there... yikes. It looked like someone could have filmed a post-apocalyptic film there. Buildings falling down and burnt out, trash everywhere. It was not a pleasant scene. I was hoping the new stadium would help that out. Even though I don't live there any more, I still root for St. Louis teams (except in baseball) and the city as a whole. It's a shame to see the Rams move.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I used to live at the corner of Washington and 4th, so not far from the current stadium. The area I was in was fine, but a few blocks north of there... yikes. It looked like someone could have filmed a post-apocalyptic film there. Buildings falling down and burnt out, trash everywhere. It was not a pleasant scene. I was hoping the new stadium would help that out. Even though I don't live there any more, I still root for St. Louis teams (except in baseball) and the city as a whole. It's a shame to see the Rams move.

Good ole' Wash Ave. My wife's favorite Mexican place ever is on Wash Ave. Good times.