Its official...

[nasdadjr]

It's official for me I am going to say I do not want Chris Mack as the head coach of Xavier basketball anymore. I say this with Xavier being down but I still think they come back and win this game today against Marquette. I am not knee jerk reacting here I can come up with justification for thinking what I am thinking.

First of all I am aware what Mack was able to accomplish his first three years here. I will counter that and say that while I am aware he was a major person who recruited those guys they were still not HIS guys... They were Millers. When Chris Mack finally got a chance to bring in all his guys he let the best player on the team get booted out for no reason at all and the rest of the class either quit or transferred out.

I have seen absolutely zero player development and improvement during his reign. Is Dee Davis really better than his sophomore year? He is not bad but he is the same player he was back then. The same can be said for players like Stainbrook (as a matter of fact I would say Stain has regressed his senior season not improved). Jalen Reynolds has improved offensively but is not the shot blocking defensive force he was last season. I see an absolute monster in Jalen Reynolds and physically he has better ability and better gifts than David West ever had but he is not realizing his full potential because Chris Mack does not utilize him the best or has developed him the right way. I also blame that on the lack of good assistant coaching for this team as well but guess who brought in the staff? That's right it's Chris Mack and him and his shitty staff has not developed a player in I don't know how long. I can come up with many more players but don't want to write a novel. The Xavier way of doing things is a distant memory and that is because of the people both players and coaches that Chris Mack has brought in over the last six seasons.

Mack is continually outcoached in every single game we play and he has no ability to motivate his players including today. We lost at Auburn cause Xavier was flat out coached. Same with UTEP. Xavier has physically and on paper been the better team in every game this season except for Villanova yet they have lost almost every game away from Cintas. Why is that? When your 5 and 19 on the road in two seasons that tells me you are unable to get your team mentally ready to play. That kind of road record for a team like Xavier over two seasons is a fireable offense for a lot of coaches in college basketball at programs like Xavier. Why is it that Xavier can't do what a Miami does at Duke or an Iowa at Ohio State? It's not lack of talent it is lack of mental fortitude and lack of a coach able to get the best out of his players and to put a good game plan in place to begin with.

Finally the biggest reason I don't like Mack anymore is because he has absolutely no idea what the pulse is of his team is. How is that possible as a coach? You want to know why Xavier's defense is so bad? It's because there is no continuity on this team. Remy Abell is the best defender on the team locking down multiple great scorers and is a 43% three point shooter and lost his starting job? Macura is a turnover machine right now and defensive liability along with Blueitt and Myles Davis but those guys are seeing increased minutes while guys like Abell see decreased minutes. Brandon Randolph is gets zero minutes for 2 games and Austin goes in then all of a sudden Randolph is back in against Marquette? What is the point what is the purpose? When you throw in so many different lineups guys don't have time to build continuity and it leads to confusion which is why X is so bad right now. A good coach puts guys in positions to get going if they are struggling but Bluiett is in a massive struggle and I don't see Mack calling any set plays or setting up screens to get him easier looks. He is just hanging him out to dry and its not helping him to improve...same as what happened to Myles last year. On top of that why do ALL of our freshman seem to start hot then not improve while other freshman across the country get better as the season goes on? COACHING which we apparently don't have.

How damn hard is it to start your best players. Can anyone tell me this shouldn't be the starting lineup

1. Dee Davis
2. Remy Abell
3. Trevon Bluiett
4. Jalen Reynolds
5. Matt Stainbrook

Only other guys that should get minutes

6. Myles Davis (about 15 minutes)
7. JP Macura (Id say in almost split time with Bluiett)
8. Randolph (five minutes)
9. Farr (12 to 15 spelling Jalen and Stain)

Either Jalen or Matt should always be on the floor we should never have both out. Same goes with Remy and Dee. We should NEVER have one of them not on the floor.

Sorry for the rant and I am sure some of you are going to get on here and tear me a new one for blasting on Mack but you can't deny the lack of player development, mental fortitude and toughness of his teams is almost non existent. Blast away on me

[nasdadjr]

For instance right now against Marquette we are down by one Fisher is their only big and we have shot 5 straight three's get the ball to Jalen and shoot and use you damn size

[LA Muskie]

You may want to let the game finish before you post something like that. Oh; and you are allowed to delete your own post by the way...

[XMuskieFTW]

Horrible second half adjustments by Mack.

[XMuskieFTW]

Also dee is much better than two years ago. Stain hasn't regressed at all this year he's just facing infinitely more double teams than he saw last year.

[DC Muskie]

Why is it that Xavier can't do what a Miami does at Duke or an Iowa at Ohio State? It's not lack of talent it is lack of mental fortitude and lack of a coach able to get the best out of his players and to put a good game plan in place to begin with.

This really interests me. We all chalked up the Nova game as a loss before it was played, but why can't we have a night where we have a big win on the road? I'm really hoping we can steal a few on the road and at worst, end up with the total that we had last year.

[DC Muskie]

Also dee is much better than two years ago. Stain hasn't regressed at all this year he's just facing infinitely more double teams than he saw last year.

Does Stain look bigger and slower this year, or is it just me? He looks a step slower than last year. To me at least.

[Xavier]

Reynolds is more gifted than Player of the Year David West? Are you serious? I can get not being happy with Mack but when you say statements like this it kind of throws your credibility out the window.

[XfansinKy]

:pointandlaugh::pointandlaugh::pointandlaugh:
You may want to let the game finish before you post something like that. Oh; and you are allowed to delete your own post by the way...

Once again you beat me to it.

[smileyy]

Marquette is the kind of team (no one taller than 6'7") that is just horrible for Matt on the defensive end. Like I said elsewhere, he brings a lot to the table, but there's a fair amount he takes off, too. Farr/Reynolds need be able to be a good frontcourt combo to be able to use their height and length to kill teams like Marquette inside.

[smileyy]

Also not sure why you only want to give 15 minutes to one of the better players on the floor -- Myles Davis. If you haven't seen how much better he is than last year, you're watching even less than I am (which isn't a lot)

[XMuskieFTW]

Does Stain look bigger and slower this year, or is it just me? He looks a step slower than last year. To me at least.

I think the biggest part of that is the speed we play at this year compared to last. We are a much higher tempo team and I think Philmore made stain not look quite as slow

[wkrq59]

For instance right now against Marquette we are down by one Fisher is their only big and we have shot 5 straight three's get the ball to Jalen and shoot and use you damn size

Just out of curiosity, how many of those threes did Remy and Myles make?

[IM4X]

Also not sure why you only want to give 15 minutes to one of the better players on the floor -- Myles Davis. If you haven't seen how much better he is than last year, you're watching even less than I am (which isn't a lot)

Actually, While Myles seems to finish strong in some games (like today's game), he really hasn't shot well in the previous 4 or so games. He didn't play all that well in the first half of this game either (but to be fair- not many did). He did make some big shots at the end... Still We have witnessed a net negative performance from him in many games.

The previous 4 games he has been shooting under 30% from three, had Turn overs at important points in a game and has given up a lot of points on D. His overall FG% was even worse than his 3point % in those games.

I love to see Myles out there when he plays like he did down the stretch. We just need to see much more of that kind of hustle and confidence and shooting from him earlier in the game too.

[X Factor]

Matta and Miller were going up against Fordham, Duquesne, LaSalle, St. Bonnie, Charlotte, etc.

Mack for the past 2 years is going up against Nova, G'Town, Butler, Creighton, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, etc.

Also, Mack has a roster full of underclassmen and not much experience outside of Dee and Stain.

And Matta didn't win with "his" players. He won with Prosser's players.

[nasdadjr]

Now allow me to address as many points as I can because some interesting things were said. I don't know how to do the highlighted box quote stuff so bear with me.

1. To the guy who said I should wait until the end of the game to post such a thing. I prefaced the entire thing by saying I still think Xavier comes back and wins so that is moot. The fact is though at home against an undermanned undersized Marquette team we were taken to the brink because of a piss poor first half where this team was completely unprepared to play a game. Once again I put the squarely on the shoulders of Coach Mack.

2. Yes Jalen Reynolds has better physical gifts than David West. David West was my all time favorite player to watch for Xavier but he became the horse he was through extremely hard work and not quite the natural born talent others have. David West also brought out the best in others around him cause he was gonna bust your ass if you didn't play as hard as he did. Jalen is taller, longer arms, not quite as strong but damn close and can jump much higher than West could. If you go back and watch Jalen this season if he gets the ball within five feet of the hoop it is going in almost every time. He is damn good at his little sky hook. Now West had other post moves to go on and was a master at the little shoulder bump to create separation and put in the little five foot fader and Jalen needs to increase is post moves to even consider getting close to the level of West, but as far as just pure physical talent Jalen has more.

3. Stainbrook gets double teamed after he catches the ball not before. Stainbrook for some reason can't catch the ball within five feet of the rim anymore. I don't know if its a strength or speed issue or if Mack is intentionally pulling him away from the rim but he catches the ball over 10 feet from the rim entirely too much. Mack to me needs to set some low screens or something to get Stainbrook the ball on the low block because that is where he is most effective not out at the foul line.

4. At the time it was 40 to 39 and 43 42 if I recall correctly and I think they made 2 of the five but with Marquette on their heels and Fischer out how do you not pound Jalen and Stainbrook down low? Take the higher percentage shots that is Mack having no clue how to take advantage of his mismatches. I'm just glad it worked out.

5. The 15 minutes for Myles Davis was a mistake I meant for it to be 25 minutes because he can spell multiple positions.

6. Yes Matta won with Prossers players but Miller won with Mattas players. If Matta was not scooped up by OSU those players would have done the same if not more for Matta. I also remember Matta being a master at the halftime adjustment which Mack is definitely not.

7. I want to ask Xavier nation here one question and it is completely hypothetical and I know that but I want to see what you think knowing what you know. Take a player like Romain Sato. All the physical talent in the world but completely raw. We saw the player he became by his junior and senior seasons. My question to you is this. Does Mack and his coaching staff get Sato to reach his level of dominance that we saw if he was on the team today? I am really curious about what you would answer there.

[Milhouse]

I'm confused.

Did Travis Taylor not develop from his Jr year to his Sr year?

Did Matt stainbrook not develop from his So year at WMU to his Jr at X?

Justin Martin from Sophomore year to Jr year?

Myles from Freshman to Sophomore?

I'm not a Mack supporter but his players have improved. whether or not its because of him is a different argument......

[Xavier]

I actually don't think Justin Martin improved much at all.

[Masterofreality]

How damn hard is it to start your best players. Can anyone tell me this shouldn't be the starting lineup

1. Dee Davis
2. Remy Abell
3. Trevon Bluiett
4. Jalen Reynolds
5. Matt Stainbrook

Only other guys that should get minutes

6. Myles Davis (about 15 minutes)
7. JP Macura (Id say in almost split time with Bluiett)
8. Randolph (five minutes)
9. Farr (12 to 15 spelling Jalen and Stain)

Either Jalen or Matt should always be on the floor we should never have both out. Same goes with Remy and Dee.

Well, I agree with this part. So there's that...except that you might not start Jalen to save a foul or two.

[DC Muskie]

I'm confused.

Did Travis Taylor not develop from his Jr year to his Sr year?

Did Matt stainbrook not develop from his So year at WMU to his Jr at X?

Justin Martin from Sophomore year to Jr year?

Myles from Freshman to Sophomore?

I'm not a Mack supporter but his players have improved. whether or not its because of him is a different argument......

I agree with all of this except Martin.

The only issue is, while all of these guys improve on an individual level, we have not improved in tournament situations.

[nasdadjr]

No Travis Taylor did not develop. Remember the type of player he was. His junior year he was a slasher who tried to always get to the basket with no jumper at all. That story didn't change his senior year. He slashed and did his thing but he was never a threat outside of three feet so no Travis Taylor while a decent player did not develop from his junior to senior year he stayed the same.

Yes Stain lost a lot of weight and improved mightily from his sophomore to junior seasons with an off year in there too I might add. Of course his development has stalled this year IMHO.

Justin Martin and Myles were about as bad as bad could get so there was literally nowhere to go but up especially in Myles case. Now Myles is knocking down shots but for me so see real improvement that I can credit to Mack and not just Myles taking thousands of jumpers is to see Myles not look like a lost puppy dog on defense which he and almost the whole team still do way to often which I attribute to the fact that Mack has no consistency in his line up even after 2/3 of season is over.

[nasdadjr]

No I say start your best players and if they foul they foul but you must start your five best and that lineup with Jalen is definitely our five best.

[nasdadjr]

And last note about Travis Taylor I do not think he was a scrub but all the talk was he needed to develop some type of jumper it just never happened. Still a good player but couldn't get to the next level because of that lack of development.

[xuwin]

If this thread was graded for it's accuracy it would get a solid F-.

[bjf123]

Is TravisTaylor playing anywhere this year?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[waggy]

Mack is not going to be changed mid-season, so whether "you are done with him" means squat. If someone with less than 100 posts and a string of red dots opinion matters anyway.

In summation:

Piss off.

[muskienick]

Marquette is the kind of team (no one taller than 6'7") that is just horrible for Matt on the defensive end. Like I said elsewhere, he brings a lot to the table, but there's a fair amount he takes off, too. Farr/Reynolds need be able to be a good frontcourt combo to be able to use their height and length to kill teams like Marquette inside.

Marquette starts a player who's listed at 6'11" tall but looks more than an inch taller than Matt Stainbrook.

[xu82]

Marquette starts a player who's listed at 6'11" tall but looks more than an inch taller than Matt Stainbrook.

And thank God he had some foul trouble today. More of those billion "what if's" that don't always seem huge at the moment, but can decide a game.

[X Factor]

And last note about Travis Taylor I do not think he was a scrub but all the talk was he needed to develop some type of jumper it just never happened. Still a good player but couldn't get to the next level because of that lack of development.

Did CJ Anderson ever develop a jumper?

[xeus]

No I say start your best players and if they foul they foul but you must start your five best

James Posey disagrees.

[Olsingledigit]

I actually don't think Justin Martin improved much at all.

Like he improved less under the great Larry Brown? He was a head case.

[smileyy]

Did CJ Anderson ever develop a jumper?

I think he shot one once in 2009. Made it too.

[smileyy]

James Posey disagrees.

There's an argument that Posey was underused in his time at Xavier.

[JEHARDI]

It is official, you are a clown!

[X-band '01]

Did CJ Anderson ever develop a jumper?

He's developed one helluva Twitter account.

[paulxu]

No Travis Taylor did not develop. Remember the type of player he was. His junior year he was a slasher who tried to always get to the basket with no jumper at all. That story didn't change his senior year. He slashed and did his thing but he was never a threat outside of three feet so no Travis Taylor while a decent player did not develop from his junior to senior year he stayed the same.

Tell you what...I'm going to give you 3 guesses who the Chris Daniels Award for most improved player in the entire Atlantic 10 for 2012-13 was.

Here's a hint: it was Travis Taylor's senior year.

Are you ready? OK...go...

[XfansinKy]

Tell you what...I'm going to give you 3 guesses who the Chris Daniels Award for most improved player in the entire Atlantic 10 for 2012-13 was.

Here's a hint: it was Travis Taylor's senior year.

Are you ready? OK...go...

First two guesses dont count and CJ was a transfer.

[XUMIOH12]

Did CJ Anderson ever develop a jumper?

and Jamel McLean never developed a jumper either.....some guys just cant shoot.

[principal]

...(no one taller than 6'7")...

You must be thinking of UD.

[Juice]

No Travis Taylor did not develop. Remember the type of player he was. His junior year he was a slasher who tried to always get to the basket with no jumper at all. That story didn't change his senior year. He slashed and did his thing but he was never a threat outside of three feet so no Travis Taylor while a decent player did not develop from his junior to senior year he stayed the same.

Yes Stain lost a lot of weight and improved mightily from his sophomore to junior seasons with an off year in there too I might add. Of course his development has stalled this year IMHO.

Justin Martin and Myles were about as bad as bad could get so there was literally nowhere to go but up especially in Myles case. Now Myles is knocking down shots but for me so see real improvement that I can credit to Mack and not just Myles taking thousands of jumpers is to see Myles not look like a lost puppy dog on defense which he and almost the whole team still do way to often which I attribute to the fact that Mack has no consistency in his line up even after 2/3 of season is over.

I already know you're an idiot because of this statement. His junior year: 4.5 points, 3.7 rebounds. His senior year: 11.9 points, 9.0 rebounds.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/42530/travis-taylor

Oh, and his FG% went up too. Idiot.

[nasdadjr]

No and cj Anderson would have been all league had he developed a jumper. Wagga just because I don't spend all my free time trolling all the message boards reminiscing about the "good Ole days" doesn't mean squat. Why don't you let the big boys talk and you can go home pop a viagra and attempt to do something other than find ways to earn these green dots you think people care about

[paulxu]

OK, that's one. It wasn't Wags, although he has a pretty good medium-range jumper.

Two guesses left.

[XU-PA]

He's developed one helluva Twitter account.

Reps all the way around, ever feel low, just a little down in the dumps?? Dial up CJ's facebook or twitter, guaranteed to leave you in stitches

[Masterofreality]

and Jamel McLean never developed a jumper either.....some guys just cant shoot.

Except in the Euro League vs The San Antonio Spurs...


http://youtu.be/SIxjdOVkHto

[Muskie]

Now allow me to address as many points as I can because some interesting things were said. I don't know how to do the highlighted box quote stuff so bear with me.

1. To the guy who said I should wait until the end of the game to post such a thing. I prefaced the entire thing by saying I still think Xavier comes back and wins so that is moot. The fact is though at home against an undermanned undersized Marquette team we were taken to the brink because of a piss poor first half where this team was completely unprepared to play a game. Once again I put the squarely on the shoulders of Coach Mack.

-Perhaps a fair point.

2. Yes Jalen Reynolds has better physical gifts than David West. David West was my all time favorite player to watch for Xavier but he became the horse he was through extremely hard work and not quite the natural born talent others have. David West also brought out the best in others around him cause he was gonna bust your ass if you didn't play as hard as he did. Jalen is taller, longer arms, not quite as strong but damn close and can jump much higher than West could. If you go back and watch Jalen this season if he gets the ball within five feet of the hoop it is going in almost every time. He is damn good at his little sky hook. Now West had other post moves to go on and was a master at the little shoulder bump to create separation and put in the little five foot fader and Jalen needs to increase is post moves to even consider getting close to the level of West, but as far as just pure physical talent Jalen has more.

-You can't talk about the virtues of Jalen without looking at the fact that the guy commits lots of fouls. Sometimes early which takes him off the floor for key stretches. He might have more physical gifts than West, but West was a master at positioning and drawing his Defender to their weak side. I don't see that on a regular basis from Jalen.

3. Stainbrook gets double teamed after he catches the ball not before. Stainbrook for some reason can't catch the ball within five feet of the rim anymore. I don't know if its a strength or speed issue or if Mack is intentionally pulling him away from the rim but he catches the ball over 10 feet from the rim entirely too much. Mack to me needs to set some low screens or something to get Stainbrook the ball on the low block because that is where he is most effective not out at the foul line.

- I suppose it's Chris Mack who is also causing Stainbrook to miss all those 2ft shots and put-back's too.

4. At the time it was 40 to 39 and 43 42 if I recall correctly and I think they made 2 of the five but with Marquette on their heels and Fischer out how do you not pound Jalen and Stainbrook down low? Take the higher percentage shots that is Mack having no clue how to take advantage of his mismatches. I'm just glad it worked out.

-Short of Mack being in the game to pass the ball down low, what do you want? If Dee/Myles/Larry/Remy don't recognize the mismatch, what can Mack do besides yell from the sideline?

5. The 15 minutes for Myles Davis was a mistake I meant for it to be 25 minutes because he can spell multiple positions.

- That depends on what Myles Davis shows up. The Myles Davis that played against Butler has no business playing 25 minutes.

6. Yes Matta won with Prossers players but Miller won with Mattas players. If Matta was not scooped up by OSU those players would have done the same if not more for Matta. I also remember Matta being a master at the halftime adjustment which Mack is definitely not.

-I think Matta got out while the getting was good. I also don't believe he's nearly the tactician you remember. Was this the same great tactician that allowed Anthony Myles to continue to play with 4 fouls against Duke and fouled out of the Elite 8 with 12 minutes remaining? Great half time adjustments in that game. Talk about revisionist history on Matta. If he hadn't slinked out of town a couple of weeks later, we would have been talking about his coaching for months after.

7. I want to ask Xavier nation here one question and it is completely hypothetical and I know that but I want to see what you think knowing what you know. Take a player like Romain Sato. All the physical talent in the world but completely raw. We saw the player he became by his junior and senior seasons. My question to you is this. Does Mack and his coaching staff get Sato to reach his level of dominance that we saw if he was on the team today? I am really curious about what you would answer there.

- Impossible to say. There will be some on this board that will tell you Sato never really lived up to the hype either under Matta/Miller. I also don't personally remember Sato ever really dominating a game (but if someone can remind me be my guest) He was a good player on good/great teams. I have no idea if that was because of Matta.

[DC Muskie]

Here's an interesting quote I just read about Urban Meyer. It's about how he gets players to play.

“That’s Urban Meyer. He never stops trying to figure out another way to motivate players, improve the program, get coaches to coach better,” Boston College coach Steve Addazio told SI’s Pete Thamel on Monday. “That’s the secret recipe to him. It’s not scheme. The scheme is fine, but there’s too much emphasis on that. Get your guys to play fast and get them motivated, that’s your value as a coach."

To me getting guys to realize their position and what to look for are drilled over and over. So yes, short of Mack entering the game and making the correct passes, his biggest influence is getting the team mentally ready to play.

[drudy23]

Coaching is 80% motivation...getting a group of people to buy into your vision and do whatever it takes to make it successful...and 20% X's and O's.

Your coaches have to be a unified reflection of your mission and your players have to accept the role they've been given to make the vision a reality.

The best coaches in the world do this, but it's not easy.

[DC Muskie]

The best coaches in the world do this, but it's not easy.

It certainly isn't. It's sort of a chicken egg thing.

Urban is able to motivate players because he wins titles. He wins titles because of motivated players.

I always think that Mack's early success would be helpful in recruiting and motivating players which turns into wins and the cycle repeats itself.

But like you said, it's not easy.

[bleedXblue]

Now allow me to address as many points as I can because some interesting things were said. I don't know how to do the highlighted box quote stuff so bear with me.

1. To the guy who said I should wait until the end of the game to post such a thing. I prefaced the entire thing by saying I still think Xavier comes back and wins so that is moot. The fact is though at home against an undermanned undersized Marquette team we were taken to the brink because of a piss poor first half where this team was completely unprepared to play a game. Once again I put the squarely on the shoulders of Coach Mack.

-Perhaps a fair point.

2. Yes Jalen Reynolds has better physical gifts than David West. David West was my all time favorite player to watch for Xavier but he became the horse he was through extremely hard work and not quite the natural born talent others have. David West also brought out the best in others around him cause he was gonna bust your ass if you didn't play as hard as he did. Jalen is taller, longer arms, not quite as strong but damn close and can jump much higher than West could. If you go back and watch Jalen this season if he gets the ball within five feet of the hoop it is going in almost every time. He is damn good at his little sky hook. Now West had other post moves to go on and was a master at the little shoulder bump to create separation and put in the little five foot fader and Jalen needs to increase is post moves to even consider getting close to the level of West, but as far as just pure physical talent Jalen has more.

-You can't talk about the virtues of Jalen without looking at the fact that the guy commits lots of fouls. Sometimes early which takes him off the floor for key stretches. He might have more physical gifts than West, but West was a master at positioning and drawing his Defender to their weak side. I don't see that on a regular basis from Jalen.

3. Stainbrook gets double teamed after he catches the ball not before. Stainbrook for some reason can't catch the ball within five feet of the rim anymore. I don't know if its a strength or speed issue or if Mack is intentionally pulling him away from the rim but he catches the ball over 10 feet from the rim entirely too much. Mack to me needs to set some low screens or something to get Stainbrook the ball on the low block because that is where he is most effective not out at the foul line.

- I suppose it's Chris Mack who is also causing Stainbrook to miss all those 2ft shots and put-back's too.

4. At the time it was 40 to 39 and 43 42 if I recall correctly and I think they made 2 of the five but with Marquette on their heels and Fischer out how do you not pound Jalen and Stainbrook down low? Take the higher percentage shots that is Mack having no clue how to take advantage of his mismatches. I'm just glad it worked out.

-Short of Mack being in the game to pass the ball down low, what do you want? If Dee/Myles/Larry/Remy don't recognize the mismatch, what can Mack do besides yell from the sideline?

5. The 15 minutes for Myles Davis was a mistake I meant for it to be 25 minutes because he can spell multiple positions.

- That depends on what Myles Davis shows up. The Myles Davis that played against Butler has no business playing 25 minutes.

6. Yes Matta won with Prossers players but Miller won with Mattas players. If Matta was not scooped up by OSU those players would have done the same if not more for Matta. I also remember Matta being a master at the halftime adjustment which Mack is definitely not.

-I think Matta got out while the getting was good. I also don't believe he's nearly the tactician you remember. Was this the same great tactician that allowed Anthony Myles to continue to play with 4 fouls against Duke and fouled out of the Elite 8 with 12 minutes remaining? Great half time adjustments in that game. Talk about revisionist history on Matta. If he hadn't slinked out of town a couple of weeks later, we would have been talking about his coaching for months after.

7. I want to ask Xavier nation here one question and it is completely hypothetical and I know that but I want to see what you think knowing what you know. Take a player like Romain Sato. All the physical talent in the world but completely raw. We saw the player he became by his junior and senior seasons. My question to you is this. Does Mack and his coaching staff get Sato to reach his level of dominance that we saw if he was on the team today? I am really curious about what you would answer there.

- Impossible to say. There will be some on this board that will tell you Sato never really lived up to the hype either under Matta/Miller. I also don't personally remember Sato ever really dominating a game (but if someone can remind me be my guest) He was a good player on good/great teams. I have no idea if that was because of Matta.

Sato scored 2000 points and almost 900 rebounds. I wanna talk to those that don't believe he lived up to the billing.

[Joel]

I also don't personally remember Sato ever really dominating a game (but if someone can remind me be my guest) He was a good player on good/great teams. I have no idea if that was because of Matta.

In February of 2003 he dropped 34 on URI and then 35 at La Salle in back to back games. Nobody is confusing those teams with the Wooden Era UCLA squads, but those were pretty dominant performances from Romain.

[Muskie]

In February of 2003 he dropped 34 on URI and then 35 at La Salle in back to back games. Nobody is confusing those teams with the Wooden Era UCLA squads, but those were pretty dominant performances from Romain.

Fair enough. Thanks for the reminder. I knew he had 2000 points and 900 boards. But I always just thought of him as a consistently very good player. I'm not trying to take anything away from him either. I don't know how much Matta had to do with his development.

[XU 87]

2. Yes Jalen Reynolds has better physical gifts than David West. David West was my all time favorite player to watch for Xavier but he became the horse he was through extremely hard work and not quite the natural born talent others have. David West also brought out the best in others around him cause he was gonna bust your ass if you didn't play as hard as he did. Jalen is taller, longer arms, not quite as strong but damn close and can jump much higher than West could. If you go back and watch Jalen this season if he gets the ball within five feet of the hoop it is going in almost every time. He is damn good at his little sky hook. Now West had other post moves to go on and was a master at the little shoulder bump to create separation and put in the little five foot fader and Jalen needs to increase is post moves to even consider getting close to the level of West, but as far as just pure physical talent Jalen has more.



You wrote some crazy stuff. I picked this one for the craziest. Are you really arguing that Jalen Reynolds has more talent than player of the year, NBA all-star David West? Really?

While it helps, having long arms and being able to jump high does not automatically make one a talented basketball player. There is a difference between simply being athletic and being a good basketball player.

And all your talk about players not improving under Mack is nonsense. Go compare Holloway's stats before and after Mack. Crawford turned into an NBA player. Travis Taylor. Matt Stainbrook. Justin Martin. Dee Davis. Mark Lyons. Frease. If you don't think those guys got better, then I think you must have only have watched them their freshman years.

[DART87]

- Impossible to say. There will be some on this board that will tell you Sato never really lived up to the hype either under Matta/Miller. I also don't personally remember Sato ever really dominating a game (but if someone can remind me be my guest) He was a good player on good/great teams. I have no idea if that was because of Matta.

Sato was an honorable mention All American his senior year. He also dropped 27 on Texas in the sweet 16 game (the one that led to the first Elight Eight in XU history). He has the XU record for most career points (160) in NCAA games. 3rd all time on XU's scoring list and 8th all time on the rebound list. Let's not forget he was the defensive stopper too. I think describing him as a "good" player is undervaluing his contribution. He will be joining the XU hall of fame this year...lots of "good" players there.

[Muskie]

Sato was an honorable mention All American his senior year. He also dropped 27 on Texas in the sweet 16 game (the one that led to the first Elight Eight in XU history). He has the XU record for most career points (160) in NCAA games. 3rd all time on XU's scoring list and 8th all time on the rebound list. Let's not forget he was the defensive stopper too. I think describing him as a "good" player is undervaluing his contribution. He will be joining the XU hall of fame this year...lots of "good" players there.

See my post above.

[XU 87]

To me getting guys to realize their position and what to look for are drilled over and over. So yes, short of Mack entering the game and making the correct passes, his biggest influence is getting the team mentally ready to play.

I agree. X's and O's are very important, but the most important thing is to get the players ready to play, both individually and as a team, and get the most out of their ability.

I always thought Dusty Baker was an average game manager, but he usually got the most out of his players. (Just an example, let's not turn this into a Dusty Baker thread).

[X Factor]

Sato was an honorable mention All American his senior year. He also dropped 27 on Texas in the sweet 16 game (the one that led to the first Elight Eight in XU history). He has the XU record for most career points (160) in NCAA games. 3rd all time on XU's scoring list and 8th all time on the rebound list. Let's not forget he was the defensive stopper too. I think describing him as a "good" player is undervaluing his contribution. He will be joining the XU hall of fame this year...lots of "good" players there.

I think Romain Sato is one of the most underrated players in X history. 3rd all-time in scoring and 8th all-time in rebounding!! The guy was barely 6'4 and is 8th all-time in rebounding.

I remember his sophmore year AT Dayton, he poured in 19 points and grabbed 15 rebounds in a win!! He scored over 30 points in a game as a freshman!

He locked down A LOT of great offensive players in his time.

His senior year, he averaged 8 rebounds a game. He would be the leading rebounding on this team and a lot of past teams. You talk about toughness, Sato embodied it. He was a warrior.

Yeah, I'm a fan of Sato.

[bleedXblue]

I think Romain Sato is one of the most underrated players in X history. 3rd all-time in scoring and 8th all-time in rebounding!! The guy was barely 6'4 and is 8th all-time in rebounding.

I remember his sophmore year AT Dayton, he poured in 19 points and grabbed 15 rebounds in a win!! He scored over 30 points in a game as a freshman!

He locked down A LOT of great offensive players in his time.

His senior year, he averaged 8 rebounds a game. He would be the leading rebounding on this team and a lot of past teams. You talk about toughness, Sato embodied it. He was a warrior.

Yeah, I'm a fan of Sato.

To admit you can't remember Sato being dominant is laughable. He was one of the top 10 players of all time to wear the X uniform.

[RealDeal]

It's official, an idiot who knows very little about X basketball can start a thread and get a response. Awesome!

[LA Muskie]

I think Romain Sato is one of the most underrated players in X history. 3rd all-time in scoring and 8th all-time in rebounding!! The guy was barely 6'4 and is 8th all-time in rebounding.

I remember his sophmore year AT Dayton, he poured in 19 points and grabbed 15 rebounds in a win!! He scored over 30 points in a game as a freshman!

He locked down A LOT of great offensive players in his time.

His senior year, he averaged 8 rebounds a game. He would be the leading rebounding on this team and a lot of past teams. You talk about toughness, Sato embodied it. He was a warrior.

Yeah, I'm a fan of Sato.

Not by me! He's my favorite all time favorite by a LARGE margin. (Well, maybe not a large margin -- I'm quite find of my man Broderick Dow too!)

But I do agree he is under appreciated by many in X Nation.

[LadyMuskie]

I think it's to be applauded that so many of you actually read the initial post. Congrats on getting through that tome.

[Xavier]

You wrote some crazy stuff. I picked this one for the craziest. Are you really arguing that Jalen Reynolds has more talent than player of the year, NBA all-star David West? Really?

While it helps, having long arms and being able to jump high does not automatically make one a talented basketball player. There is a difference between simply being athletic and being a good basketball player.



Honestly, I think he came to the conclusion based on the way UC recruits. Athleticism=basketball talent.

[OTRMUSKIE]

I think most fans already know this but we are in a very very very good conference. #2 in the nation! We have 6 losses and a RPI of 35 and SOS of 22. Meanwhile Dayton is playing in an average conference with just 2 losses and has a RPI of 24 and a SOS of 101. We simply arnt use to losing and it's frustrating. This is the price we are paying for being in a premier league. At the end of the day we could have 12 losses and go .500 in conference and still make the dance. What is my point of this? My point is Jalen Reynolds couldn't hold D West jockstrap, that's just an insane statement.

[Cheesehead]

When Jalen drops 49 on a team we can put Jalen and David West in same sentence

[LA Muskie]

When Jalen drops 49 on a team we can put Jalen and David West in same sentence

Ha! Yeah, this.

[waggy]

No and cj Anderson would have been all league had he developed a jumper. Wagga just because I don't spend all my free time trolling all the message boards reminiscing about the "good Ole days" doesn't mean squat. Why don't you let the big boys talk and you can go home pop a viagra and attempt to do something other than find ways to earn these green dots you think people care about


Maybe you could get a meeting with Graham and Christopher and tell them how you're done with Mack. I'm sure they'll tell you to pizzz off too, but at least you'll be getting it from the ultimate "big boys" in X bball authority in being told to pizzz off...

As far as posting here, maybe you should PM me with your idea before posting, and I can tell you to pizzz off in advance.

[D-West & PO-Z]

You wrote some crazy stuff. I picked this one for the craziest. Are you really arguing that Jalen Reynolds has more talent than player of the year, NBA all-star David West? Really?

While it helps, having long arms and being able to jump high does not automatically make one a talented basketball player. There is a difference between simply being athletic and being a good basketball player.

And all your talk about players not improving under Mack is nonsense. Go compare Holloway's stats before and after Mack. Crawford turned into an NBA player. Travis Taylor. Matt Stainbrook. Justin Martin. Dee Davis. Mark Lyons. Frease. If you don't think those guys got better, then I think you must have only have watched them their freshman years.

This. Holloway especially. His freshman year was not a very good player his freshman year. Kwamain Mitchell (same class) at SLU was much better player as a freshman. Tu made huge improvements.

[Muskie]

How did I miss the CJ anderson prediction?

[xdude]

So it's not official?

[94GRAD]

When Jalen drops 49 on a team we can put Jalen and David West in same sentence

And 17

[Muskie]

So it's not official?

Officially not official.

[nasdadjr]

Juice please stop your embarrassing yourself. First of all I did say Taylor was not a scrub. Secondly yes Taylor became more efficient in the paint but that year we needed a four who could stretch the floor not to the three point line but who could at least make a ten foot jumper and I remember Taylor talking about how he worked it so hard between his junior and senior year and it amounted to nothing in games. Yes his points went up but so did his field goal attempts which mostly came within 3 feet of the basket. If you can't read into stats better than you showed then your a bigger idiot than I am

[nasdadjr]

Muskie good response allow me to respond to your points.

About Jalen with his fouls don't forget David west was not David west his sophomore year either.

Yes Matta left myles in but going back to the main point was myles probably not the most improved player on that team. He was a magician under the hoops and always found a way to score. Matta also found that teams pulse after an embarrassing gw loss and never looked back something mack has yet to do any season.

I can't disagree about what can mack do outside of yell from the bench to ge the ball low but then again if the guards can't recognize that does that not speak to their lack of preparation?

[nasdadjr]

Xu 87 read it again I said he has better physical gifts. Hell it's the first damn line. Yes jumping higher having longer arms and being taller means you have better physical gifts

[Juice]

Juice please stop your embarrassing yourself. First of all I did say Taylor was not a scrub. Secondly yes Taylor became more efficient in the paint but that year we needed a four who could stretch the floor not to the three point line but who could at least make a ten foot jumper and I remember Taylor talking about how he worked it so hard between his junior and senior year and it amounted to nothing in games. Yes his points went up but so did his field goal attempts which mostly came within 3 feet of the basket. If you can't read into stats better than you showed then your a bigger idiot than I am

"Even though he really improved from his junior to senior season, he wasn't the player I think we needed and didn't do the things that weren't in his skill set so therefore he was a failure" - NASDADJR

I also don't think you understand statistics. Yes he shot the ball more but his FG% went up. So I would think that you would want a guy making over 50% of his shots to shoot more. Also, you are faulting him for shooting the ball 3 feet from the basket. Would you want him to move farther out and shoot harder shots? Travis Taylor was the 2nd best player on the team that year. Him and Semaj were the only reasons that team was above .500.

And Taylor wasn't exactly playing the four that season. Robinson and Philmore were being used in that role more. I honestly think you have a poor understanding of basketball. Your initial post starting this thread and follow ups have been just short insane.

[nasdadjr]

Xu 87 your post is laughable. Crawford was nba ready from the beginning mack had nothing to do with that. I guess coach k developed kyrie Irving because he went to duke and played a whole 11 games. Justin Martin getting better is questionable at best. Lyons was always good but always played out of control So I Can Give credit to mack for slowing him down. Frease finally figured it out his last ten games thanks to Dr j big man camp.

[nasdadjr]

Oh sorry if there are any typos I am on my phone

[nasdadjr]

A lot of you are funny comparing Jalen his sophomore year to west his senior year. Give Jalen two more seasons and he will be just as dominate given the proper coaching and development west was able to get

[nasdadjr]

Why would you want him being better and making more jumper? You are answering your own question with our players. We had semaj Robinson and philmore. In other words we had Robinson who was useless outside of three feet, philmore average at best and semaj who was a master at finishing his slashes but had no jumper at all. What does that mean? All that scoring was all inside scoring we had almost zero outside threat so if semaj is slashing inside Robinson is inside Taylor is inside and philmore is inside it becomes a log jam and you can't score which we didnt. You want Taylor to step out to get another guy out of the paint. How hard can this really be for people to understand

[nasdadjr]

Waggy no offense but I don't give two squats about Mr graham ( he ain't my father so I won't call him that) since he thinks it a good idea to drag kids names through the mud on a national stage with absolutely zero proof at all.

Fact is chris mack let the xavier way die. The xavier way was created by senior leaders and great men who passed the work ethic and drive on to the freshman below them and those players would then pass it on. That chain of over 20 years was broken when mack lost an entire recruiting class and now that tradition is gone and won't be back. Xavier basketball had a junkyard dog mentality for over 20 years and four coaches and it took one coach to bring it all down

On a side note the one guy is right we do play in a much better conference now and that will mean more losses but losing to a team like DePaul ,lbsu, 2 straight years to UTEP and so on is not a result of conference it's coaching

[X-man]

It's official...NASDADJR, you are a tool. You revealed as much when you put the blame for Dez being expelled on Mack. Anyone who says something like that as part of their "analysis" of Mack clearly has an ax to grind rather than being interested in having a rational conversation about Mack's ability as a coach. Back to your little cave, troll.

[bleedXblue]

Why would you want him being better and making more jumper? You are answering your own question with our players. We had semaj Robinson and philmore. In other words we had Robinson who was useless outside of three feet, philmore average at best and semaj who was a master at finishing his slashes but had no jumper at all. What does that mean? All that scoring was all inside scoring we had almost zero outside threat so if semaj is slashing inside Robinson is inside Taylor is inside and philmore is inside it becomes a log jam and you can't score which we didnt. You want Taylor to step out to get another guy out of the paint. How hard can this really be for people to understand

.

[bleedXblue]

A lot of you are funny comparing Jalen his sophomore year to west his senior year. Give Jalen two more seasons and he will be just as dominate given the proper coaching and development west was able to get

Replied to the wrong post.

There's delusion and then there's just plain stupidity.

[paulxu]

That's it. "It's official." You used up guesses #2 and #3.

The correct answer was: The Most Improved Player Award in the entire Atlantic 10 for 2012-13 went to...Travis Taylor.

(Guess I didn't give you enough hints)

[XMuskieFTW]

That's it. "It's official." You used up guesses #2 and #3.

The correct answer was: The Most Improved Player Award in the entire Atlantic 10 for 2012-13 went to...Travis Taylor.

(Guess I didn't give you enough hints)

But he didn't make enough 15 foot jumpers so he really didn't improve at all!

[Juice]

But he didn't make enough 15 foot jumpers so he really didn't improve at all!


He made too many easy shots. And it's bullshit how Travis improved his fg%.

[Masterofreality]

He made too many easy shots. And it's bullshit how Travis improved his fg%.

Easy shots came from bad offense. Just lucky I guess.

I'll just copy and paste my original post in the "Tweets You Gotta Love" Thread:

“@Eiser_XU_Sports: @GoodmanCBS: Travis Taylor's monster *night in win over No. 16/15 St. Louis: 19 pts., 19 reb. & 6 blk.; your new Avatar photo is on the way”

[XUFan09]

I think it's to be applauded that so many of you actually read the initial post. Congrats on getting through that tome.
Lol I actually skipped the original post and just read the replies

[muskieindent]

In February of 2003 he dropped 34 on URI and then 35 at La Salle in back to back games. Nobody is confusing those teams with the Wooden Era UCLA squads, but those were pretty dominant performances from Romain.

Let's put this point to rest.Sato was one of the best players ever at X which is why they will retire his number.And comparing Reynolds to West is just not even fair to Jalen.

[muskieindent]

Muskie good response allow me to respond to your points.

About Jalen with his fouls don't forget David west was not David west his sophomore year either.

Yes Matta left myles in but going back to the main point was myles probably not the most improved player on that team. He was a magician under the hoops and always found a way to score. Matta also found that teams pulse after an embarrassing gw loss and never looked back something mack has yet to do any season.

I can't disagree about what can mack do outside of yell from the bench to ge the ball low but then again if the guards can't recognize that does that not speak to their lack of preparation?
Wasn't West player of the year his sophomore year?I could be wrong .Maybe he only won POY twice.Everyone seems to think Reynolds has NBA potential.Maybe he does but we need to start seeing it more consistently.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Wasn't West player of the year his sophomore year?I could be wrong .Maybe he only won POY twice.Everyone seems to think Reynolds has NBA potential.Maybe he does but we need to start seeing it more consistently.

He was a 3 time A10 player of the year.

He only won National Player of the year his senior year. (obviously)

[IM4X]

A lot of you are funny comparing Jalen his sophomore year to west his senior year. Give Jalen two more seasons and he will be just as dominate given the proper coaching and development west was able to get

Don't get me wrong, I really was excited Bout Jalen when he decided to come play at X. I've been more excited about his commitment and to see what he could do than almost any player in the past 25 years, but he has really struggled when he got here (and he had an extra prep year). I know he's coming on, but he is no where near the complete player West was by his sophomore year. West was the best player in the conference and Jalen has yet to prove to be the best player on the team - heck he doesn't even start much of the time. I thought from the videos I watched of him before he got to X that he was going to prove to be a force shooting outside too.

Jalen has looked closer to JRobinson in many ways. A guy with freakish athleticism and tons of potential, but not always sure how to take advantage of it unless he has an open lane to the basket or uses the hook shot. I have to think part of that is on the coaches for not being better at developing him (or Robinson when he was at X) and showing him how to use that athleticism in more ways to his advantage - the way Miller and staff were able to develop D. Brown into a consistent, dominant player with many moves and a nice stroke from behind the arc.

[XU 87]

A lot of you are funny comparing Jalen his sophomore year to west his senior year. Give Jalen two more seasons and he will be just as dominate given the proper coaching and development west was able to get

I think it's kind of "funny" that YOU were the one making the comparisons.

[XU 87]

Waggy no offense but I don't give two squats about Mr graham ( he ain't my father so I won't call him that) since he thinks it a good idea to drag kids names through the mud on a national stage with absolutely zero proof at all.



You are an a-hole and based on this sentence, I doubt you went to XU, and doubt you don't even root for X. And if you did go to X, shame on you.

[RealDeal]

Oh sorry if there are any typos I am on my phone

You should probably worry less about the typos and more about making some kind of sense with the content of your posts.

[xu82]

I need to pay better attention so I don't come back here again... that's on me. Damn.

[Muskie]

And this thread has run its course as well...