Xavier Athletics Strategic Plan

[BMoreX]

http://www.goxavier.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/052714aaa.html

[throwbackmuskie]

As great as Cintas was when it opened, I must say there was a lot that was left out. It could have/should have been so much better when it first opened.

[Xaveriana]

If I remember correctly, Xavier did the best they could with the money they raised. I believe the practice court was donated by Brian Grant given the money had run dry. Pulling off the Cintas Center was a major accomplishment--one that we should be proud of and one that we should celebrate. Many wish we would have added 13,000 seats so that tournament games could be hosted, but the reasons for 10,250 were sound for the A-10.

Thank you Father Hoff, Bob K, Brian Grant and Xavier community.

[X-man]

The "strategic plan", as described in the links at GoXavier, is not a plan at all. It is rather simply a set of goals and objectives. It is easy to lay down a bunch of goals; the hard work is to create a strategy to achieve them. I hope that what is presented in the links to the "plan" is not all that has been done on this issue. If it is, we have no plan but rather a document that AD Christopher describes as simply "aspirational".

[Masterofreality]

So for all of you that are thinking that the Xavier athletic program swims in cash and contributes to the school, think again.

The school actually contributed $2.8 million to the athletic department last year to fully fund it.

Yeah, the AFO needs more,

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/education/2014/05/27/modernized-cintas-center-will-drive-xu-sports/9654459/

[GoMuskies]

That's a well spent $2.8 million.

[coasterville95]

Just saw the summary writeup in the Enquirer.

So, forget about Cintas Center for the moment. The article basically confirmed a beleif that our facilities, while adequate for the A10, are not up to Big East standards.

Improvements mentioned were the buiilding of a baseball stadium (for our Big East Champion team of course!), and the possibly renovation, or start from scratch of the Soccer stadium. The article also mentioned something itneresting, it stated to nobody's real surprise that Schimidt Fieldhouse is in poor condition, and then it mentions the need for a new fieldhouse, then put that in the back of your mind, and much further down the article, the errection of a second, more intimate arena for Women's Basketball and Volleyball, stating that playing games in the cavernous Cintas Center in front of a 1,000 fans does not make for a great game day experience. Sounds to me like we are looking at Schmidt Fieldhouse 2.0 as a women's arena.

Other things mentioned include increasing alumni/booster giving by another quarter million a year, and a hard review of Track and Field. As in "Does it make sense to keep Track and Field?"

Back to Cintas Center - they are looking at IT upgrades for the conference center, enhanced/expanded club seating, improved concourses, and for the teams improved weight room and film study room. Sorry guys, no talk in the aticle about the installation of additional urinals.

It says our atheltics program, like most, is in the red to the tune of about 2.8 million per year (But that Forbes Article!), so the gist of the article is that through expanded donations, expanded premium seating, etc. they can get sports up to a break even, thats 2.8 mill that can go to the academic side of the house.

There is a plan document at goxavier, but I haven't found the right viewer.

[X-man]

Just saw the summary writeup in the Enquirer.

So, forget about Cintas Center for the moment. The article basically confirmed a beleif that our facilities, while adequate for the A10, are not up to Big East standards.

Improvements mentioned were the buiilding of a baseball stadium (for our Big East Champion team of course!), and the possibly renovation, or start from scratch of the Soccer stadium. The article also mentioned something itneresting, it stated to nobody's real surprise that Schimidt Fieldhouse is in poor condition, and then it mentions the need for a new fieldhouse, then put that in the back of your mind, and much further down the article, the errection of a second, more intimate arena for Women's Basketball and Volleyball, stating that playing games in the cavernous Cintas Center in front of a 1,000 fans does not make for a great game day experience. Sounds to me like we are looking at Schmidt Fieldhouse 2.0 as a women's arena.

Other things mentioned include increasing alumni/booster giving by another quarter million a year, and a hard review of Track and Field. As in "Does it make sense to keep Track and Field?"

Back to Cintas Center - they are looking at IT upgrades for the conference center, enhanced/expanded club seating, improved concourses, and for the teams improved weight room and film study room. Sorry guys, no talk in the aticle about the installation of additional urinals.
It says our atheltics program, like most, is in the red to the tune of about 2.8 million per year (But that Forbes Article!), so the gist of the article is that through expanded donations, expanded premium seating, etc. they can get sports up to a break even, thats 2.8 mill that can go to the academic side of the house.

There is a plan document at goxavier, but I haven't found the right viewer.

It seems obvious to me that a good strategic plan should begin with a better beer selection at Cintas. Throw in decent food options as well and it's practically guaranteed that additional dollars will flow into the Cintas operation like good beer flows at Listerman's. Of course this will exacerbate the need for additional urinals.

[Xville]

The "strategic plan", as described in the links at GoXavier, is not a plan at all. It is rather simply a set of goals and objectives. It is easy to lay down a bunch of goals; the hard work is to create a strategy to achieve them. I hope that what is presented in the links to the "plan" is not all that has been done on this issue. If it is, we have no plan but rather a document that AD Christopher describes as simply "aspirational".

Agreed. To me, the whole plan looks like a complete 24 page fluff piece. We need to raise more money, reduce costs, and build championship teams. I'm so glad they needed an 18 person committee to come up with that. I'm very interested to know where this additional revenue is going to actually come from. I guess they will just raise tuition which is always the answer to help pay for athletics. This is a whole different topic but When are colleges and universities going to realize that the model that has been used for however some odd years is dying a slow death.

[danaandvictory]

The "strategic plan", as described in the links at GoXavier, is not a plan at all. It is rather simply a set of goals and objectives. It is easy to lay down a bunch of goals; the hard work is to create a strategy to achieve them.

I've sat on a couple of non-profit boards, and in my experience this is pretty much how strategic plans work. The board sits down and come up with broad objectives and overarching, aspirational strategic goals and then the boots-on-the-ground staff develops specific implementation strategies to achieve those goals.

For example, on one board, our strategic plan for the FY was to increase donations from existing donors by $100K and to bring in $100K in new donations for that year. That's how we wrote it up in the strategic plan. The organization's staff then developed a list of existing donors, inactive/dormant donors and potential targets, prepared some promotional materials, and then the board/committees and staff got lists of people to call and meet with. We also sought to increase the number of events/weddings at our facility by 100% for the following year. So we budgeted money for advertisements and our staff approached wedding and event planners to get our name out.

[X-man]

I've sat on a couple of non-profit boards, and in my experience this is pretty much how strategic plans work. The board sits down and come up with broad objectives and overarching, aspirational strategic goals and then the boots-on-the-ground staff develops specific implementation strategies to achieve those goals.

For example, on one board, our strategic plan for the FY was to increase donations from existing donors by $100K and to bring in $100K in new donations for that year. That's how we wrote it up in the strategic plan. The organization's staff then developed a list of existing donors, inactive/dormant donors and potential targets, prepared some promotional materials, and then the board/committees and staff got lists of people to call and meet with. We also sought to increase the number of events/weddings at our facility by 100% for the following year. So we budgeted money for advertisements and our staff approached wedding and event planners to get our name out.

Then let's call the document something other than a strategic plan. I am sick to death of reading about "plans" like this because it seems more often than not that the heavy lifting never actually gets done.

[GoMuskies]

It's more a vision than a plan. And that's fine, because you need to have the vision before you have the plan so that you know what you're planning for.

[West is Best]

The leadership just made the Track coaches recruiting work a lot harder. If they cut programs just so volleyball and WBB can have a few less empty seats, I'm going to be livid.

Also, there is a plan underlying this, it's just not being shared in full with the public.

[GoMuskies]

Louisville, on the other hand, plays women's basketball and volleyball at the 20,000 seat Yum! Center. Both those programs have been very, very successful despite playing in front of thousands of empty seats. If it's good enough for Louisville, I think it's good enough for Xavier (particularly if it's going to save Xavier money).

[throwbackmuskie]

The additional arena is just a giant waste of money. The purpose of an on-campus arena is so that all the sports can play there. I wonder how many schools actually have a "women's sports arena". If anything, if the school has a new arena and old gym that is where the seperation could come in. As far as adding more seats when it opened, that was not my issue with Cintas. It was the waste of space.

[Muskie]

I've come to the realization that some people will never be happy no matter what this Administration does. For months we hear that X should be spending money and that the Admin has no plan. Now they release a plan, and now people want to quibble about what is in the plan or what it should even be called.

Being in the Big East is great on many levels. However, our ability to compete and win championships (which some consider a birthright) will require significant fundraising and/or the making of some hard decisions. I'm loathe to tell people what to do with their hard earned money. But if X is a place you believe in, than it looks like they're asking for more support if it's doable on your end.

That said. How many other places have a volleyball/Women's Basketball Arena in the Big East? With the limitations of the Campus footprint, I'd say this isn't high up on my list of "wants/needs".

[GoMuskies]

That said. How many other places have a volleyball/Women's Basketball Arena in the Big East? With the limitations of the Campus footprint, I'd say this isn't high up on my list of "wants/needs".

Obviously, Muskie will never be happy with the Administration what with these quibbles about what is in the strategic plan! :smile:

[Muskie]

Obviously, Muskie will never be happy with the Administration what with these quibbles about what is in the strategic plan! :smile:

touche

[coasterville95]

That said. How many other places have a volleyball/Women's Basketball Arena in the Big East? With the limitations of the Campus footprint, I'd say this isn't high up on my list of "wants/needs".

I think several of the Big East schools play their Women's Basketball and Volleyball in a different venue than Men's Basketball, but that is due to the fact they don't own a state of the art arena, and instead, prefer to rent an NBA (or similar) arena. Then they play the women's sports in an on campus fieldhouse. In their case though, that saves on the rental expenses associated with the off camopus arena. (I think I read US Bank Arena charged us 30K to host the Shooutout, and the places the other schools rent are a bit nicer than US Bank Arena) Over 15 games or so that's $450,000 in rent, at a minimum. In our case we have a state of the art arena, that requires daily upkeep that will need to get paid if it sits empty or if the women's games are held there. Worse we would have TWO arenas (plus the other stadia mentioned) to maintatin. So, in our case, I don't think the separation makes sense. And may ruffle a few feathers, when it comes to being percieved as equal in importance to the men's team.

[Muskie]

I think several of the Big East schools play their Women's Basketball and Volleyball in a different venue than Men's Basketball, but that is due to the fact they don't own a state of the art arena, and instead, prefer to rent an NBA (or similar) arena. Then they play the women's sports in an on campus fieldhouse. In their case though, that saves on the rental expenses associated with the off camopus arena. (I think I read US Bank Arena charged us 30K to host the Shooutout, and the places the other schools rent are a bit nicer than US Bank Arena) Over 15 games or so that's $450,000 in rent, at a minimum. In our case we have a state of the art arena, that requires daily upkeep that will need to get paid if it sits empty or if the women's games are held there. Worse we would have TWO arenas (plus the other stadia mentioned) to maintatin. So, in our case, I don't think the separation makes sense. And may ruffle a few feathers, when it comes to being percieved as equal in importance to the men's team.

I'd rather they invest in covers for the seating that isn't filled. Racetracks do this all the time for unsold/undesirable seating.

[X-man]

The leadership just made the Track coaches recruiting work a lot harder. If they cut programs just so volleyball and WBB can have a few less empty seats, I'm going to be livid.

Also, there is a plan underlying this, it's just not being shared in full with the public.

Did you sit on the committee that created this plan? How do you know this?

[Xville]

Louisville, on the other hand, plays women's basketball and volleyball at the 20,000 seat Yum! Center. Both those programs have been very, very successful despite playing in front of thousands of empty seats. If it's good enough for Louisville, I think it's good enough for Xavier (particularly if it's going to save Xavier money).

I get your point and agree with it...another facility just for these programs is a gigantic waste of money. However, average attendance at women's basketball games is right around 9k and around 2-3k for volleyball at the Yum. On a related note though, whatever Louisville is doing, it is working...that school has barrels of cash rolling in like no one's business. They have a real state of the art basketball arena that they raped the city on, a great football stadium that they keep adding to, a 4,500 or so seat baseball arena that ranks up there with the teams in the acc, and have almost completed what will be the best college soccer stadium in the country once finished. I know Louisville is about 4 times the size of Xavier, and has football to boot, but I wonder if Xavier could take a peek and see what the heck is going on down here and use some of the principles that Louisville has done and apply it on a smaller scale.

[X-band '01]

I'd rather they invest in covers for the seating that isn't filled. Racetracks do this all the time for unsold/undesirable seating.

Or just get a curtain to hide the upper deck. I think Halton Arena down in Charlotte utilitzes a curtain for their WBB and volleyball programs. But given the decline of their men's BB program since they left C-USA, they may as well use that curtain on a permanent basis.

[West is Best]

Did you sit on the committee that created this plan? How do you know this?

Reading between the lines. Xavier is 3rd in the BE revenue and 9th in costs. Under normal circumstances this would be great, but Xavier has increasing debt and so-so enrollment, so this has to be a cost cutting plan called for by the higher ups.

XU has never been the best at transparency and as a private university, they don't have to reveal the details. But this is a lot more than a vision.

[muskienick]

Not having ever seen the actual "guts" of Schmidt Fieldhouse (i.e Locker rooms, etc.), is a makeover and modernization of that facility for women's basketball and volleyball a way to achieve that part of the "plan" without spending even more money for a completely new building? In all the years we went to Schmidt to see the men's teams play, we somehow were able to find decent on-street parking within walking distance. Who knows, it might even be more costly to renovate Schmidt than it would be to start from scratch. But where would it be without adversely affecting the current number of parking places? Where would a proposed new baseball stadium for the Muskies be built? (If somewhere other than its present location, it's likely that further land acquisition might be necessary but at least it would open space for additional parking adjacent to a better soccer complex and Schmidt.

It's all speculation at this point, but this is a very good start, the semantics of the usage of "Plan" notwithstanding. You've got to have goals and objectives before any plan for reaching them is devised.

[muskienick]

Or just get a curtain to hide the upper deck. I think Halton Arena down in Charlotte utilitzes a curtain for their WBB and volleyball programs. But given the decline of their men's BB program since they left C-USA, they may as well use that curtain on a permanent basis.

Why invest in a curtain in the first place? We are not UConn or Tennessee, expecting our women's basketball program to match (or exceed) the men's attendance. Simply sell tickets to the lower bowl, chain off access to the upper tier, and place one poorly-paid person on each side of the upper arena to chase out any interlopers. For the one women's game scheduled for TV every 2-3 years, just be happy that there are very few shots of the upper level if embarrassment is the cause for the proposed installation of a curtain blocking viewing from the upper tier.

[X-band '01]

The upper bowl is already closed for women's games and volleyball; my point was merely that a curtain might be more preferable to simply razing Schmidt Fieldhouse and/or renovating said building as a cost-cutting measure.

Then again, there are more details to be addressed than merely an arena for a couple of sports.

[bjf123]

Back to Cintas Center - they are looking at IT upgrades for the conference center, enhanced/expanded club seating, improved concourses, and for the teams improved weight room and film study room. Sorry guys, no talk in the aticle about the installation of additional urinals.

It says our atheltics program, like most, is in the red to the tune of about 2.8 million per year (But that Forbes Article!), so the gist of the article is that through expanded donations, expanded premium seating, etc. they can get sports up to a break even, thats 2.8 mill that can go to the academic side of the house.

Here's what I get from this. The annual donation required for Club and all Premium seats will be going up substantially. My seats, which are Premium 1, but right across the aisle from Club seats, will become part of the "expanded" Club seats, so I'd need to cough up a boatload more money, which I don't have, to stay there. Not happy at that prospect, but then I am a glass half empty with a big leak in it kind of guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Muskie]

Here's what I get from this. The annual donation required for Club and all Premium seats will be going up substantially. My seats, which are Premium 1, but right across the aisle from Club seats, will become part of the "expanded" Club seats, so I'd need to cough up a boatload more money, which I don't have, to stay there. Not happy at that prospect, but then I am a glass half empty with a big leak in it kind of guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Glad I re-upped for the five year license. Hey also offered a one year renewal but I suspect ed a big jump was in the future.

[BBC 08]

Interesting that they are wanting to raise more money yet my season ticket price went down.

[xudash]

Did you sit on the committee that created this plan? How do you know this?

There...is...a...PLAN.

[xudash]

Welcome to Musketeer Madness 2.0

[Caveat]

The upper bowl is already closed for women's games and volleyball; my point was merely that a curtain might be more preferable to simply razing Schmidt Fieldhouse and/or renovating said building as a cost-cutting measure.

Then again, there are more details to be addressed than merely an arena for a couple of sports.

That portion of the plan screamed "line item to appease the women on this committee."

There has to be lip service paid to the issue, but I'd be shocked if there was any intention to sink money into a facility for women's athletics.

[GoMuskies]

Welcome to Musketeer Madness 2.0

How so? What, exactly, is the issue with this thread?

[muskiefan82]

1444

As Tony Stark said....."Not a good plan."

[X-man]

There...is...a...PLAN.

And you know this because.....? I ask because a lot of so-called plans are nothing more than wish lists.

[Retire33]

I read the entire "24" pages (more like 3/4 of a page if in a word document). I don't see any substance in the report. It includes goals that should have already existed and I naively believed they were already in place.

Not sure where this woman's sport facility idea, or new baseball and/or stadium people have mentioned came from. Nowhere is it in that PDF. Can some clue me in to what I obviously missed?

[xudash]

How so? What, exactly, is the issue with this thread?

Are you serious?

"isn't a plan"

"fluff piece"

"Cintas could have been better when it was built"

I respect that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I really shake my head at times when I read certain conclusions that are jumped to where a thorough understanding of a situation or effort otherwise may not be sufficiently comprehensive. Who at that level would call a plan a "plan" and only wheel out a page or two fluff piece with a nifty acronym attached to it and then call it a day?

So, let's take a little snippet here and chew on it for a minute: Schmidt Memorial Fieldhouse. So we're now spit balling here.

Not even I would argue that it is worth saving and it certainly isn't going to be saved for a women's hoops and vball venue. That isn't a dig against those sports teams; that is a statement made recognizing that the Cintas Center is ONLINE and fully expects their use. Attendance? Get successful and build it over time. No curtains.

Tear Schmidt down and do nothing? Can't do that; it is believed that Winding Way would begin to wind its way down the hillside if such an option were pursued. Besides, that is a very visible location on campus. It would look stupid posing as an open cavity.

Tear it down and do something? Hey, now how about that! Probably, but only as part of a master plan that would replace it with an athletic facility in support of all sports save for hoops, swimming and golf, and probably vball. Sequence? Bring up the new rec complex in Phase II of University Station, then blowout Schmidt and O'Connor and build a new complex set mainly back in and on the Schmidt footprint. How's that for an idea. Timing? Not next year.

Assessment of current situation/platforms.

Needs assessment.

Prioritize the gaps.

Funding strategy.

Go.

A little oversimplified, but that's what they're up to up there.

Actions will not be drastic. They'll pursue their plan on a logical basis.

Can they get all this done? I believe they will get it done. Frankly, I still get a kick out of the fact that they found $19 million in free cash and are now in the process of completely gutting Alter Hall for the purpose of turning it into a virtually new building by next year.

[xudash]

And you know this because.....? I ask because a lot of so-called plans are nothing more than wish lists.

Do you believe this plan is going to end up on a message board? Do you believe links to this plan are going to be provided here otherwise?

If you want to believe they are ineffective managers that is your right.

[throwbackmuskie]

Someone is on their high horse today.

I am not going to get into it with you, but yes they could have done a lot better when they built Cintas.

[xudash]

Someone is on their high horse today.

That isn't my intention, assuming I'm the one you've spotted on a horse.

It's pretty simple from my point of view:

1. The University and its athletic programs have achieved a high level.

2. They're now planning to take us higher through solid planning.

3. As part of an effective communications strategy for the athletic side of the house, the AD has come out to paint the vision.

There is a lot that will take place from here, but they'll navigate through a solid plan and planning framework.

I simply find it odd that negativity is introduced into this on here at this time. Be negative if it fails. Just don't wait up for failure.

[GoMuskies]

Are you serious?

Yes, I'm serious. There's nothing in this thread that's out of line unless you believe that the only response to anything the university puts out is applause and the suggestion that the administration all fart rainbows.

[waggy]

Is there gold at the end of the rainbow?




no homo

[muskienick]

Someone is on their high horse today.

I am not going to get into it with you, but yes they could have done a lot better when they built Cintas.

Who, exactly, is the "they" in your statement above? Could the Cintas company and the Chicago group that paid a part of the Cintas construction bill have anted up more cash so that we could have had a Cincy version of Louisville's KFC Yum! Center? Did the Muskie Brass at the time (Fr. Hoff and Mike Bobinski) screw things up by not talking Kroger, P&G, 5th-3rd Bank, and/or GE to provide the 100's of millions of $'s to make our current facility "a lot better" --- like the Dean Dome? (Who's to say they didn't???)

Jeez Louise!!! We were just 15 years from playing our home schedules at Schmidt Fieldhouse when the ceremonial first shovelful of dirt was dug for the Cintas Center. Name 10 other colleges of Xavier's size and endowment with an on-campus arena the quality and capacity of the Cintas. (OK, I'll make it easier for you --- name just 3. Errrr --- how about one?) XU hasn't been perfect in every last undertaking in the last 35 years. But if you've visited the campus recently after a 30-year absence, you would know how unbelievably wonderful it has become and the evolution is not nearly complete. You couldn't have found many reasonable Xavier fans in 2000 who would have been grousing about how stupid the brass was not to have made the Cintas Center "a lot better." Were rthey the ones who failed to consult their crystal balls in anticipation of Xavier's invitation to join the Big East in 2013? Remember, we were, at the time, relatively new members of the A-10, a vast improvement over our situation in the MCC. We had just completed about 17 years of paying rent to the Cincinnati Gardens and we totally lacked a facility with the fund-generation ability of the Cintas Center. Our Endowment was a relative joke. And yet Father Jim and Mike B. somehow made the Cintas happen.

Freaking Negative Nellies!

[RealDeal]

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Doesn't really apply here, I just like that quote. Carry on as you were.

[GoMuskies]

"a lot better" --- like the Dean Dome? (Who's to say they didn't???)


I'd say they did. I'd take the Cintas Center over the Dean Dome 10 times out of 10. Keenan Stadium at UNC is wonderful. Dean Dome? Not so much.

[throwbackmuskie]

Who, exactly, is the "they" in your statement above? Could the Cintas company and the Chicago group that paid a part of the Cintas construction bill have anted up more cash so that we could have had a Cincy version of Louisville's KFC Yum! Center? Did the Muskie Brass at the time (Fr. Hoff and Mike Bobinski) screw things up by not talking Kroger, P&G, 5th-3rd Bank, and/or GE to provide the 100's of millions of $'s to make our current facility "a lot better" --- like the Dean Dome? (Who's to say they didn't???)

Jeez Louise!!! We were just 15 years from playing our home schedules at Schmidt Fieldhouse when the ceremonial first shovelful of dirt was dug for the Cintas Center. Name 10 other colleges of Xavier's size and endowment with an on-campus arena the quality and capacity of the Cintas. (OK, I'll make it easier for you --- name just 3. Errrr --- how about one?) XU hasn't been perfect in every last undertaking in the last 35 years. But if you've visited the campus recently after a 30-year absence, you would know how unbelievably wonderful it has become and the evolution is not nearly complete. You couldn't have found many reasonable Xavier fans in 2000 who would have been grousing about how stupid the brass was not to have made the Cintas Center "a lot better." Were rthey the ones who failed to consult their crystal balls in anticipation of Xavier's invitation to join the Big East in 2013? Remember, we were, at the time, relatively new members of the A-10, a vast improvement over our situation in the MCC. We had just completed about 17 years of paying rent to the Cincinnati Gardens and we totally lacked a facility with the fund-generation ability of the Cintas Center. Our Endowment was a relative joke. And yet Father Jim and Mike B. somehow made the Cintas happen.

Freaking Negative Nellies!

Not being negative, I like Cintas, but having knowlegde of arenas and cost I feel Xavier could have done better with the money they used. I think the design was flawed, as proven now when it is already being said it is out dated. I didn't say they needed to throw more money at it at all. I said there is a waste of space.

[xudash]

Yes, I'm serious. There's nothing in this thread that's out of line unless you believe that the only response to anything the university puts out is applause and the suggestion that the administration all fart rainbows.

That's your opinion.

I've expressed my opinion.

I haven't written anything about the notion that this Administration is infallible, nor have I directly suggested that responses around here when it comes to this area should always involve applause.

The fundamental "debate" for me on this thread appears to be whether a plan exists or not, versus a few blissful pages of MADRIS thinking.

[Xville]

Not being negative, I like Cintas, but I having knowlegde of arenas I and cost I feel Xavier could have done better with the money they used. I think the design was flawed, as proven now when it is already being said it is out dated. I didn't say they needed to throw more money at it at all. I said there is a waste of space.

I'm just excited that they are going to put in more club seats so that more blue hairs can sit in them and take their naps. The crowd is already dull enough inside the place and this is just going to make it worse. Now before any of you start with "if the blue hairs weren't there, the cintas wouldn't exist yada yada yada" I understand that, and its probably true, but that doesn't mean they have to act like they are at a funeral.

I don't know what it is about the place but i have gone to a number of games each year for the past 14 years, and the crowd atmosphere has gotten significantly worse over the course of that time. I thought maybe that would change with the new Big East schedule, but I went to several of those games this year and the crowd participation was pretty pathetic.

[xudash]

Not being negative, I like Cintas, but having knowlegde of arenas and cost I feel Xavier could have done better with the money they used. I think the design was flawed, as proven now when it is already being said it is out dated. I didn't say they needed to throw more money at it at all. I said there is a waste of space.

TBM, hindsight is easy. Please recall that the Cintas Center came up as a CONVOCATION CENTER, not an ARENA.

Beyond that, most of the upgrades being discussed have to do with technology upgrades for the fan experience and better facilities for the athletes. They may even look at reconfiguring some of the seating plan to take into account trends in that area.

[GoMuskies]

I don't know what it is about the place but i have gone to a number of games each year for the past 14 years, and the crowd atmosphere has gotten significantly worse over the course of that time.

I've never lived in town since the Cintas opened, but the 10 or so times I've been there I've NEVER really felt like the crowd was intensely into it. Not sure what it is about the place. The Gardens atmosphere was much better in that respect. And yes, I know the Gardens is much worse in every other respect.

[Xville]

I've never lived in town since the Cintas opened, but the 10 or so times I've been there I've NEVER really felt like the crowd was intensely into it. Not sure what it is about the place. The Gardens atmosphere was much better in that respect. And yes, I know the Gardens is much worse in every other respect.

I was never at the gardens so I don't have that to compare it to, but I am guessing what happened to Cintas is what happens when most teams build new stadiums or arenas. The average fan gets bumped out of the good seats, blue hairs who don't care to cheer loudly, and corporate sponsors who aren't really fans of said team get pushed in. Might bring more money, but it makes for a lousy crowd atmosphere.

[muskiefan82]

No plan survives first contact with a messageboard.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Welcome to Musketeer Madness 2.0

http://x4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/can+i+pet+it+i+woldn+t+_aee2d59b9c3064a381a7f03e20 684bd2.jpg

[X-man]

Do you believe this plan is going to end up on a message board? Do you believe links to this plan are going to be provided here otherwise?

If you want to believe they are ineffective managers that is your right.

Uh, no. But I believe that a document touted as a strategic plan on the official web site might actually be more than a wish list. They might have started by deciding NOT to send out the "strategic plan" document in the mail when the entire thing was also available on the web site. I am no printing expert, but they had to have spent at least 20 grand printing and mailing that fluff piece to season ticket holders. Why not e-mail everyone with the link, and put the 20 grand toward a ticket holder reception, you know with real food and decent beer. What a waste of money.

[Xville]

Uh, no. But I believe that a document touted as a strategic plan on the official web site might actually be more than a wish list. They might have started by deciding NOT to send out the "strategic plan" document in the mail when the entire thing was also available on the web site. I am no printing expert, but they had to have spent at least 20 grand printing and mailing that fluff piece to season ticket holders. Why not e-mail everyone with the link, and put the 20 grand toward a ticket holder reception, you know with real food and decent beer. What a waste of money.

This is one reason why universities are dying a slow death. They waste money and have zero clue on how to innovate. .shit we need more money what do we do? I know...send another mailer! Let's just do the same crap we have done since the 60s. Sorry I absolutely love xavier but why do I need 2-3 mailings from them a week telling me why I need to give them money? I give money when I want to and when I can...most of those things I don't even bother to open I just walk from the mailbox to the trash can. The old college model is dying and I wonder when universities are going to realize that. People are finally hip to the fact that unless you go to an ivy league school or something right up there, it isn't worth going into 160k in debt before u even graduate.

[X-band '01]

What would you say to all the Ivy League students who were part of the Occupy protests 4 years ago?

[paulxu]

I wonder how many schools actually have a "women's sports arena

The University of Tennessee has a gigantic woman's basketball arena. And sometimes they let the men play there.

[Xville]

What would you say to all the Ivy League students who were part of the Occupy protests 4 years ago?

Stop spending mommy and daddy's inheritance on weed and get to work

[muskienick]

I was never at the gardens so I don't have that to compare it to, but I am guessing what happened to Cintas is what happens when most teams build new stadiums or arenas. The average fan gets bumped out of the good seats, blue hairs who don't care to cheer loudly, and corporate sponsors who aren't really fans of said team get pushed in. Might bring more money, but it makes for a lousy crowd atmosphere.
Many of the "Blue Hairs" you describe are the same people who attended games at Schmidt for decades before we watched the Muskie games at the Gardens. Given that we played most of our Gardens games while a member of the MCC, it's no surprise that the Muskies won 89.6% of their games there. Despite the better competition supplied by the A-10, the Muskies still won 87.4% of their games at the Cintas (through the 2012-2013 season). In living through both experiences for over a decade each, I believe the student section alone at the Cintas provides the Muskies with an edge we didn't have at the Gardens where the few students that did attend the games were extremely rabid and spirited. But their numbers were simply too small to have the same effect as they have at the Cintas.

[Xville]

Many of the "Blue Hairs" you describe are the same people who attended games at Schmidt for decades before we watched the Muskie games at the Gardens. Given that we played most of our Gardens games while a member of the MCC, it's no surprise that the Muskies won 89.6% of their games there. Despite the better competition supplied by the A-10, the Muskies still won 87.4% of their games at the Cintas (through the 2012-2013 season). In living through both experiences for over a decade each, I believe the student section alone at the Cintas provides the Muskies with an edge we didn't have at the Gardens where the few students that did attend the games were extremely rabid and spirited. But their numbers were simply too small to have the same effect as they have at the Cintas.

Sorry but what does any of this have to do with what I said? The crowd atmosphere is dull and average if not below average at cintas...you are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.I have been to plenty of other college basketball venues to know the difference between an average crowd and a great crowd atmosphere. By the way cintas wasn't like this 5-7 years ago...it is a pretty recent development...it was never one of the best but it wasn't what it is like now.

[West is Best]

There's no pictures of either men's cross country or men's swimming in the brochure. From the Enquirer report, it sounds like swimming is safe for now. I ran for XU around the time the Rifle team got cut and I'm deeply disappointed at what may be coming. Over time, the XU runners are basically the only classmates I've consistently kept in touch with.

With the turmoil facing the NCAA and its member institutions, I don't see how this plan can be put into place until the living stipend/paying athletes issue is settled. Also, I don't understand why the "priority" sports are worthy of such investment at the expense of other programs, given that Cincy is a pro sports town and none of them are profitable.

[throwbackmuskie]

TBM, hindsight is easy. Please recall that the Cintas Center came up as a CONVOCATION CENTER, not an ARENA.

Beyond that, most of the upgrades being discussed have to do with technology upgrades for the fan experience and better facilities for the athletes. They may even look at reconfiguring some of the seating plan to take into account trends in that area.

Look up the road, same concept.

[Always Learning]

It seems obvious to me that a good strategic plan should begin with a better beer selection at Cintas. Throw in decent food options as well and it's practically guaranteed that additional dollars will flow into the Cintas operation like good beer flows at Listerman's. Of course this will exacerbate the need for additional urinals.

First he is critical saying the report is a NO-PLAN, then come his suggestions.

X-MAN, you missed your calling. You could write for any of the late nigh shows. Your "plan" (especially the addition of more urinals) still have me laughing!

[xu82]

Sadly, I must admit my game-day enjoyment revolves largely around the food and beverage experience. It's a problem I acknowledge. I'm working on it... It doesn't matter the sport or if it's high school, college or pro. It's a big part of my experience. My kids high school had killer hot dogs (grilled by our friends) and OK pizza. Always with diet cokes to go with it and get me further jacked up - bad idea. A rival school (that usually killed us) had a menu like a Cheesecake Factory with steak sandwiches and raspberry tortilla tarts. I found the food and beverage experience at Cintas to be..... simple. Disappointing actually. I didn't notice any glaring shortfalls in the arena, but the food could have been better and the wine (after way too many beers pre-game at Dana's and elsewhere) was nasty. I know, it's a ball game... temper yoiur expectations. I've had better food at high school games and at the lowliest NFL stadium (Jacksonville) where we enjoyed an unlimited buffet with sautéed sea bass and a very nice chardonnay. (OK, those tix were $380 each, but still.) So, now I have exposed one of my many weaknesses. I'm into the food/beverage experience and that could be better based on my limited experience.

[xu82]

I'm OK with the current number of urinals, but that's subject to change.

[Masterofreality]

Not being negative, I like Cintas, but having knowlegde of arenas and cost I feel Xavier could have done better with the money they used. I think the design was flawed, as proven now when it is already being said it is out dated. I didn't say they needed to throw more money at it at all. I said there is a waste of space.

Try building an arena for $44 million...and see what you come up with. Even considering inflation.

Something much less than Cintas Center. Look what the hell Villanova has. They would kill to have a Cintas on campus.

[Masterofreality]

I've never lived in town since the Cintas opened, but the 10 or so times I've been there I've NEVER really felt like the crowd was intensely into it. Not sure what it is about the place. The Gardens atmosphere was much better in that respect. And yes, I know the Gardens is much worse in every other respect.

Cincinnati crowds by nature are not loud and crazy. As to being "intensely into it" there is no difference between the Gardens and Cintas. Big Games are intense, run of the mill games, not so much.

As to the Gardens, much of the "atmosphere" was caused by horrible acoustics where crown noise would bounce around the place like a radio inside a tin can. Cintas isn't as loud because the building is better acoustically.

[xu82]

How long was the cafeteria there? We went looking for it last season and realized it had been moved. I guess it was too small or not convenient? It seemed that what I think was that space was under utilized currently. Any plans for that space? Sorry, I don't get there often or check the local news.

[muskienick]

Sorry but what does any of this have to do with what I said? The crowd atmosphere is dull and average if not below average at cintas...you are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.I have been to plenty of other college basketball venues to know the difference between an average crowd and a great crowd atmosphere. By the way cintas wasn't like this 5-7 years ago...it is a pretty recent development...it was never one of the best but it wasn't what it is like now.

Well, you drew a conclusion concerning the comparison of the Cintas experience with that of the Gardens and you admit to never attending a Xavier game at the Gardens! You assume that it's the blue hairs' fault for displacing (seemingly) more enthusiastic fans because of their thicker wallets. Your total lack of knowledge of what the better seats at the Gardens required (a donation --- not called a seat license then). They were designated by color: blue, silver, gold, and platinum if my memory serves me correctly. The point is that even in the Gardens, the better seats were held by people who were willing to dig deeply to Xavier. The student section at the Cintas is 50x more intimidating than the students were at the Gardens. The attendance figures are better at the Cintas. Our program has reached its greatest heights while playing at the Cintas. The Cintas is described as one of the toughest places in the nation for a visiting team to win.

Nonetheless. I apologize if the decibel level at Xavier games does not meet with your approval. Perhaps Xavier should redesign Cintas to 1950 specifications so that the acoustics are so bad that even a few blue hairs rooting can reverberate off the roof and walls. Of course you could then forget about having all the myriad of events that the Cintas now hosts that require state-of-the-art acoustics and brings in a load of cash not available otherwise.

[xu82]

I've never lived in town since the Cintas opened, but the 10 or so times I've been there I've NEVER really felt like the crowd was intensely into it. Not sure what it is about the place. The Gardens atmosphere was much better in that respect. And yes, I know the Gardens is much worse in every other respect.

I think the "better" atmosphere may have come from the additional noise made by people having panic attacks because their shoes were stuck to the floor. But that's just a guess...

[danaandvictory]

Cincinnati crowds by nature are not loud and crazy. As to being "intensely into it" there is no difference between the Gardens and Cintas. Big Games are intense, run of the mill games, not so much.

Yeah. I think people generally remember the UC/UMass type thunderdome experiences at the Garden and forget games against Loyola in front of 2600 people on a Tuesday night.

[GoMuskies]

I got to Xavier in '94, so I missed any 2600 against Loyola nights that there may have been.

Again, I have no interest in going back to the Gardens in any way shape or form. But the average game I attended at the Gardens was much louder than the average game at Cintas, whether it was because of poor acoustics or something else (drunker fans perhaps).

[Xville]

Stop spending mommy and daddy's inheritance on weed and get to work

[QUOTE=muskienick;452657]Well, you drew a conclusion concerning the comparison of the Cintas experience with that of the Gardens and you admit to never attending a Xavier game at the Gardens! You assume that it's the blue hairs' fault for displacing (seemingly) more enthusiastic fans because of their thicker wallets. Your total lack of knowledge of what the better seats at the Gardens required (a donation --- not called a seat license then). They were designated by color: blue, silver, gold, and platinum if my memory serves me correctly. The point is that even in the Gardens, the better seats were held by people who were willing to dig deeply to Xavier. The student section at the Cintas is 50x more intimidating than the students were at the Gardens. The attendance figures are better at the Cintas. Our program has reached its greatest heights while playing at the Cintas. The Cintas is described as one of the toughest places in the nation for a visiting team to win.

Nonetheless. I apologize if the decibel level at Xavier games does not meet with your approval. Perhaps Xavier should redesign Cintas to 1950 specifications so that the acoustics are so bad that even a few blue hairs rooting can reverberate off the roof and walls. Of course you could then forget about having all the myriad of events that the Cintas now hosts that require state-of-the-art acoustics and brings in a load of cash

The Gardens was an assumption on.my part and from what some others have said on here in the past.

Anyways all I said was that the atmosphere is average to below average for college basketball. Sorry if that ruffled your feathers but it is the truth. It is what it is but I wish it wasn't so.

[cheeba]

Interesting that they are wanting to raise more money yet my season ticket price went down.

Mine did not change, as a result I decided not to renew my 4 lowers (premium 1). When you factor in the required donation, I was paying $70 per seat per game. That is comparable to what one is expected to pay for a professional sporting event, such as the NFL. The prices have escalated to a point where it was not worthwhile for me to renew. After speaking with the representatives from the ticket office, I left with the impression that there were a lot of season ticket holders that elected not to renew. I was offered a partial ticket plan, guaranteed lower level seats. They indicated that this was the first season where lower level seats will be available as a partial package. Thankfully I will be able to see a majority of the games from the convenience of my home on fox sports.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Mine did not change, as a result I decided not to renew my 4 lowers (premium 1). When you factor in the required donation, I was paying $70 per seat per game. That is comparable to what one is expected to pay for a professional sporting event, such as the NFL. The prices have escalated to a point where it was not worthwhile for me to renew. After speaking with the representatives from the ticket office, I left with the impression that there were a lot of season ticket holders that elected not to renew. I was offered a partial ticket plan, guaranteed lower level seats. They indicated that this was the first season where lower level seats will be available as a partial package. Thankfully I will be able to see a majority of the games from the convenience of my home on fox sports.

Yeah thats just an absurd price. Thats NFL prices. I love Xavier basketball but I would never pay that much per game for a season.

My upper level tickets, 5th row (no donation), were $600 last year for two seats, and like BBC, they went down to $400 next year. Good seats in my opinion and a very reasonable price.

[Retire33]

Cincinnati crowds by nature are not loud and crazy. As to being "intensely into it" there is no difference between the Gardens and Cintas. Big Games are intense, run of the mill games, not so much.

[b]As to the Gardens, much of the "atmosphere" was caused by horrible acoustics where crown noise would bounce around the place like a radio inside a tin can. Cintas isn't as loud because the building is better acoustically[b/].

That's the point, make the crowd noise reverb but keel sound system manageable (can be done).

Also need to turn down the lights over the stands during play. Give it more of an MSG feel. This will increase noise b/c people cannot identify the "idiots" making loud noises.

[Pete Delkus]

Increase the fan experience and decrease the urinal partition height.

[xu82]

Increase the fan experience and decrease the urinal partition height.

Umm, curious here... Better fan experience I get. (Whatever that means - I think I'm for it.) Is the urinal partition height desire related to a better peek at the guy next door, or do you want a better chance to splash your neighbor? Not so sure I'm for that.

[throwbackmuskie]

Try building an arena for $44 million...and see what you come up with. Even considering inflation.

Something much less than Cintas Center. Look what the hell Villanova has. They would kill to have a Cintas on campus.

Again look up the road.

[Masterofreality]

Again look up the road.

Which road? I-75?

Surely you don't mean the dump.

If you mean Oh-ho-ho State, please. Don't compare a 50,000 student public university with state funding vs a 6,000 student private school that had to build the building based on donations as the foundation.

If it is so easy to do, how come Marquette, Providence, Gonzaga etc haven't done it?

[throwbackmuskie]

Which road? I-75?

Surely you don't mean the dump.

If you mean Oh-ho-ho State, please. Don't compare a 50,000 student public university with state funding vs a 6,000 student private school that had to build the building based on donations as the foundation.

If it is so easy to do, how come Marquette, Providence, Gonzaga etc haven't done it?

Nutter Center. Much better use of space. There are a lot of good things about Cintas, a lot, but the Nutter Center is a much better use of space. Xavier should have looked up the road to get some ideas. Part of why the Nutter Center does so well is that amount of research they put into the building. Mr. Nutter had the building team look at other arenas through the country and and took the best features for what they wanted.

[wny08]

That's the point, make the crowd noise reverb but keel sound system manageable (can be done).

Also need to turn down the lights over the stands during play. Give it more of an MSG feel. This will increase noise b/c people cannot identify the "idiots" making loud noises.

Great points. I like many things about Cintas, but certainly the atmosphere could stand to be less sterile - especially the +/- 50% of home games against less interesting competition. Obviously some of it has to do with how riled up the crowd gets, but I've always wondered whether it's partially a function of design and acoustics. Arena noise seems to build on itself, so why not try to prime the pump a little bit.

[WCWIII]

It seems a big part of the document is "Not what Xavier can do for you, but what can you do for Xavier."

Suggest all attend at least one WBB game this year (maybe with the father-daughter neighbor of yours).
Same ... attend a non-basketball Xavier game. Soccer games are very entertaining - say hello to the parents at their tent. Congrats baseball!
Make that first-ever AFO and/or Annual Fund and/or Fr. Finn gift. Get a Xavier building named after you.
Get that foursome together or head out yourself for the AFO golf outing.
Do your best to get someone in your season ticket seat even if you can't make it.
Participate in the social media stuff Xavier offers. Make that tweet, like their Facebook pages, learn what an instagram is etc.
Have your kids become a junior Musketeer / ball boy. Maybe they'll even sweep your floor at home.
Go to a Chris Mack show.
Support the corporate sponsors of Xavier athletics and let them know their support is appreciated.
Give more Xavier gear as gifts.
Consider attending the Big East Tournament - after the season, there was interest in all the games and MSG is a special place.
Join an alumni game watch even if the game is on your TV.
Attend an away-game reception - best if you can help a poor ol' alum with an extra ticket.
If you or your company is in position to hire, Hire-a-Muskie!
Provide constructive feedback /suggestions if you have a great idea to make the fan experience better.

Wow, now I'm fired up with the One for all, all for one stuff!

[nuts4xu]

Mr. Nutter had the building team look at other arenas through the country and and took the best features for what they wanted.

I am quite certain the design team and architecture firm used to build the Cintas Center considered other arenas around the country. The features implemented at the time were what Xavier wanted and needed. Nutter Center is even older and I doubt it was built with the technology and state of the art facilities.

In case you are wondering, the firm that designed Cintas Center also designed the following:
-UCLA Pauley Pavilion (renovation)
-Lincoln Financial Field (Philly)
-Staples Center
-Paul Brown Stadium
-Rupp Arena (signed for the 2017 renovation)

Cintas wasn't their first or last venture in designing / building / renovating a state of the art facility.

You are also talking about a publicly paid facility (Nutter Center) versus a privately paid facility (Cintas Center), but both were built for about the same amount of funds.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

God this thread is just terrible

[throwbackmuskie]

I am quite certain the design team and architecture firm used to build the Cintas Center considered other arenas around the country. The features implemented at the time were what Xavier wanted and needed. Nutter Center is even older and I doubt it was built with the technology and state of the art facilities.

In case you are wondering, the firm that designed Cintas Center also designed the following:
-UCLA Pauley Pavilion (renovation)
-Lincoln Financial Field (Philly)
-Staples Center
-Paul Brown Stadium
-Rupp Arena (signed for the 2017 renovation)



Cintas wasn't their first or last venture in designing / building / renovating a state of the art facility.

You are also talking about a publicly paid facility (Nutter Center) versus a privately paid facility (Cintas Center), but both were built for about the same amount of funds.

I know all this. Have you ever been in the Nutter Center? Who cares how it was paid for, the point was the cost was about the same. The Nutter Center uses their space better than Cintas. The Nutter Center is a better building in many facets.

My point is and has been, IMO, Cintas left a lot to be desired when it was built. My Opinion.

[JTG]

Sadly, I must admit my game-day enjoyment revolves largely around the food and beverage experience. It's a problem I acknowledge. I'm working on it... It doesn't matter the sport or if it's high school, college or pro. It's a big part of my experience. My kids high school had killer hot dogs (grilled by our friends) and OK pizza. Always with diet cokes to go with it and get me further jacked up - bad idea. A rival school (that usually killed us) had a menu like a Cheesecake Factory with steak sandwiches and raspberry tortilla tarts. I found the food and beverage experience at Cintas to be..... simple. Disappointing actually. I didn't notice any glaring shortfalls in the arena, but the food could have been better and the wine (after way too many beers pre-game at Dana's and elsewhere) was nasty. I know, it's a ball game... temper yoiur expectations. I've had better food at high school games and at the lowliest NFL stadium (Jacksonville) where we enjoyed an unlimited buffet with sautéed sea bass and a very nice chardonnay. (OK, those tix were $380 each, but still.) So, now I have exposed one of my many weaknesses. I'm into the food/beverage experience and that could be better based on my limited experience.

It's a goddamn ballgame. If you're so worried about stuffing your face, skip the game and go to a nice restaurant.

[Muskie]

It's a goddamn ballgame. If you're so worried about stuffing your face, skip the game and go to a nice restaurant.

I don't think his desire for better food/drink at a game is out of line at all. He's merely saying what would upgrade his fan experience. Sorry you disagree. What would you like done to upgrade your fan experience.

[GoMuskies]

It's a goddamn ballgame. If you're so worried about stuffing your face, skip the game and go to a nice restaurant.

All well and good for you and me, but Cintas has 10,000 seats, and you need to fill all of them. If there are people out there who will make their decision to attend/not attend partially based on the food/beverage available, it's important to make those folks happy as well.

[XU2011]

I know all this. Have you ever been in the Nutter Center? Who cares how it was paid for, the point was the cost was about the same. The Nutter Center uses their space better than Cintas. The Nutter Center is a better building in many facets.

My point is and has been, IMO, Cintas left a lot to be desired when it was built. My Opinion.

You keep saying how Cintas Center doesn't "use the space well" ... any examples on how you would go about using the space differently? I'm honestly curious as to what you keep referring to.

[throwbackmuskie]

You keep saying how Cintas Center doesn't "use the space well" ... any examples on how you would go about using the space differently? I'm honestly curious as to what you keep referring to.

One of my biggest issues is the "wall" as I call it. IMO the windows and veiw are are giant waste, the horse shoe design gives a HS gym feel on that end of the court. IMO the design also takes away other possible events that Cintas could hold to generate revenue.

[Muskie]

One of my biggest issues is the "wall" as I call it. IMO the windows and veiw are are giant waste, the horse shoe design gives a HS gym feel on that end of the court. IMO the design also takes away other possible events that Cintas could hold to generate revenue.

Of course it is wasted space now. However, when Cintas was constructed that area housed part of the cafeteria.

[nuts4xu]

Your statement was....

Xavier should have looked up the road to get some ideas.

My point was they hired a very good firm, with plenty of experience, and I am sure they looked at a variety of other venues before building the Cintas. The fact that it is not a carbon copy of the Nutter Center does not mean it is a piece of crap and doesn't mean it was built by some fly by night outfit with no experience in the construction of a major building.

Improvements are needed, and yes, they could have done some things better when the initially built it. However, when Cintas Center was originally built, it was designed as an arena/convocation center....not the basketball arena used primarily for sports like the Nutter Center was. If Xavier has been building a sports arena, and a sports arena only, they could have put more dollars into sports friendly amenities.

The Nutter Center is a nice factility, originally built in a corn field, paid for with your tax dollars.

Cintas Center was squeezed into a pinhead so it could fit on our campus, designed to fit in with the needs of our university, paid for by private and public donations without the aid of the government.

BIG difference there my man.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

One of my biggest issues is the "wall" as I call it. IMO the windows and veiw are are giant waste, the horse shoe design gives a HS gym feel on that end of the court. IMO the design also takes away other possible events that Cintas could hold to generate revenue.

One level arenas are much more high school like the two tierd ones like Cintas. But yeah this place looks way better then Cintas, what great use of space behind that basket.

1445
1446

[throwbackmuskie]

One level arenas are much more high school like the two tierd ones like Cintas. But yeah this place looks way better then Cintas, what great use of space behind that basket.

1445
1446

That "waste" is The Nutter use to have a seating area/lounge type area. The since dropped that area.

[throwbackmuskie]

Your statement was....


My point was they hired a very good firm, with plenty of experience, and I am sure they looked at a variety of other venues before building the Cintas. The fact that it is not a carbon copy of the Nutter Center does not mean it is a piece of crap and doesn't mean it was built by some fly by night outfit with no experience in the construction of a major building.

Improvements are needed, and yes, they could have done some things better when the initially built it. However, when Cintas Center was originally built, it was designed as an arena/convocation center....not the basketball arena used primarily for sports like the Nutter Center was. If Xavier has been building a sports arena, and a sports arena only, they could have put more dollars into sports friendly amenities.

The Nutter Center is a nice factility, originally built in a corn field, paid for with your tax dollars.
Cintas Center was squeezed into a pinhead so it could fit on our campus, designed to fit in with the needs of our university, paid for by private and public donations without the aid of the government.

BIG difference there my man.

Never said we need a Nutter Center. I gave an EXAMPLE of a building that did better with their space that was in the same range cost wise.Also the Nutter Center is much like Cintas. It is an arena and much more, like Cintas. Both have a lot of the same convention feature.

[muskienick]

Nutter Center. Much better use of space. There are a lot of good things about Cintas, a lot, but the Nutter Center is a much better use of space. Xavier should have looked up the road to get some ideas. Part of why the Nutter Center does so well is that amount of research they put into the building. Mr. Nutter had the building team look at other arenas through the country and and took the best features for what they wanted.

The Nutter Center, because it was newer, seemed like a dream to me when I saw it while we were playing games at the Gardens. It also seemed "plastic" to me. That is --- done on the cheap. The Cintas Center seems just the opposite. Even if it were not so (the Nutter Center seeming "plastic"), Wright State cost about $10 million less than Xavier to build although in 2014 $'s, XU spent only slightly more. I simply cannot see where Nutter is nicer in any way than Cintas other than the 150 more seating capacity. And, of course, Nutter was at least partially funded by public $'s that were not available to Xavier.

[JTG]

I don't think his desire for better food/drink at a game is out of line at all. He's merely saying what would upgrade his fan experience. Sorry you disagree. What would you like done to upgrade your fan experience.

A hot dog and a soft drink or beer is fine with me. I just don't go to athletic events to eat and drink. a) usually it's marginal food and drink, and b) it's usually way overpriced. I opt for much better places to eat either before or after. My upgrade would be to put better stuff to buy in the Cintas bookstore.

[throwbackmuskie]

Like I said I used the Nutter Center as a example, not saying I wanted the complete Nutter Center at Xavier. I would have liked to have seen features that the Nutter Center has. Also in 2014 $s Nutter and Cintas would cost the same.

[XU2011]

One of my biggest issues is the "wall" as I call it. IMO the windows and veiw are are giant waste, the horse shoe design gives a HS gym feel on that end of the court. IMO the design also takes away other possible events that Cintas could hold to generate revenue.

They didn't design it like that for the windows and "view." It was because, as someone else already mentioned, the idea stemmed from a convocation center AND arena. The banquet facilities are used a lot more than the actual Arena. They didn't really have a choice given the financial constraints of building a complete arena AND do the banquet/convention/meeting facilities. Talk about missing out on revenue- can you imagine the loss of revenue without having the meeting spaces?

Plus, we can only fill the 10,000 seat arena for a handful of games. I wouldn't want an arena where we have 3,000-4,000 empty seats for 75% of our games.

[throwbackmuskie]

They didn't design it like that for the windows and "view." It was because, as someone else already mentioned, the idea stemmed from a convocation center AND arena. The banquet facilities are used a lot more than the actual Arena. They didn't really have a choice given the financial constraints of building a complete arena AND do the banquet/convention/meeting facilities. Talk about missing out on revenue- can you imagine the loss of revenue without having the meeting spaces?

Plus, we can only fill the 10,000 seat arena for a handful of games. I wouldn't want an arena where we have 3,000-4,000 empty seats for 75% of our games.

Never said anything about adding seats to the arena. Nor did I say get rid of the bandquet area. Yuo guys are reading way to much into what I am saying.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

That "waste" is The Nutter use to have a seating area/lounge type area. The since dropped that area.
And how exactly is that a better use of the space then Cintas who as mentioned use the banquet center more then the actual basketball arena? Nutter Center looks like they took Fairfields Gym and made it three times bigger.

[throwbackmuskie]

And how exactly is that a better use of the space then Cintas who as mentioned use the banquet center more then the actual basketball arena? Nutter Center looks like they took Fairfields Gym and made it three times bigger.

Wow where did I ever say get rid of the banquet center? Look at the Mullins Center.

My point about the Nutter Center was the used the space in the arena, not left some big empty wall.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Wow where did I ever say get rid of the banquet center? Look at the Mullins Center.

My point about the Nutter Center was the used the space in the arena, not left some big empty wall.
Not only do they also have a similar big empty wall but they have what looks to be 10-20 feet of dead space infront of the wall. I don't at all see how that's a better use of the space then what's at Cintas. It looks a lot worse

[throwbackmuskie]

Not only do they also have a similar big empty wall but they have what looks to be 10-20 feet of dead space infront of the wall. I don't at all see how that's a better use of the space then what's at Cintas. It looks a lot worse

Are you talking about Mullins or Nutter? Mullins has score boards/video boards on their "empty wall"

[xubrew]

That "waste" is The Nutter use to have a seating area/lounge type area. The since dropped that area.


One level arenas are much more high school like the two tierd ones like Cintas. But yeah this place looks way better then Cintas, what great use of space behind that basket.

1445
1446

I'm not getting into the Nutter Center v Cintas Center debate because I like both of them just fine. I just think that one of the interesting aspects about the Nutter Center is that the two sections on the very end of the horse shoe are actually movable. It's hard to see in the picture what I'm talking about because it's small (and in one of them it looks like the two sections at the end of the shoe have actually been removed entirely). But instead of being on the left and right tip of the horse shoe so to speak, than can be moved to form one big section behind the basket, which closes the shoe and forms a bowl.

Now, Wright State averages about one sell out every five years, and it generally has to be a conference tournament championship game. But, on the extremely rare occasions when the do close the horseshoe into a bowl, it is a GREAT atmosphere. Especially if they have the sections behind both baskets packed with students. They don't do it often, because they really can't. It's a half empty house every night. On most nights (as someone else said), they actually have a VIP area on the open end of the horseshoe where they have basically an elevated floor with cocktail tables on it (or something like that).

I also kind of like that the boxes at the Nutter Center are at the top. It's my experience that when you're in a suite or box at any sporting event, you don't feel quite as immersed into the action as you would if you just had a regular seat. People are watching it on TV, or in the suite, or doing whatever. So, the idea that those are at the very top, and that there is no separation between an upper and lower bowl can add to the atmosphere. When it's full, which like I said is about every five years.

[XU2011]

Never said anything about adding seats to the arena. Nor did I say get rid of the bandquet area. Yuo guys are reading way to much into what I am saying.

So you aren't saying they should have closed the horeshore and added more seats... you aren't saying get rid of the banquet facilities..... so what exactly are you suggesting they should have done?

[throwbackmuskie]

So you aren't saying they should have closed the horeshore and added more seats... you aren't saying get rid of the banquet facilities..... so what exactly are you suggesting they should have done?

As I said earlier look at the Mullins center

[xu82]

A hot dog and a soft drink or beer is fine with me. I just don't go to athletic events to eat and drink. a) usually it's marginal food and drink, and b) it's usually way overpriced. I opt for much better places to eat either before or after. My upgrade would be to put better stuff to buy in the Cintas bookstore.



I completely get that point of view. I know I'm the exception more than the rule. I am generally traveling if I'm at a game so it's that whole "vacation money" thing. The cost of food and beverages is a drop in the bucket after airfare, rental cars, hotels, etc. so I splurge a bit at the game. If I were in town with season tickets I'd be fine with a good hot dog (not one of those little two bite steamed things that seems to have been sat on) and a beer (which had better be cold and come through clean lines). I went to a Celtics game years ago and they had roast beef carving stations, which was an eye opener. And damn good! Since then I always walk the arena and see what they have. It doesn't have to be fancy (sea bass and roast beef), but it should be good. I'm definitely into the game, but it can be a nice secondary pleasure.

[Masterofreality]

As I said earlier look at the Mullins center

You do know that Mullins Center only has a capacity of 9,493 right? Cintas is 10,250. Mullins was also built in a windswept field where there was no space constraints.

How is Mullins a "better use of space"... Especially when Cintas was originally designed to house the cafeteria?

Wrong...just wrong.

[XU2011]

As I said earlier look at the Mullins center

I'm still confused.. can't you just say it instead of continually pointing us to the Mullins or Nutter Center?

You don't like "the wall" but you are not saying they should have added more seats... and not saying they shouldn't have put in the banquet facilities...... So what should they have done differently to "use the space better" than what they did? I'm not trying to call you out on it, but you have 6 or 7 posts here talking about it, but never really addressing how they didn't use the space given the constraints of financial cost, actual physical location/size of area, and need for banquet facilities/meeting space/caf. You just keep referring over and over "to the arena up north" or the Mullins Center.

[NY44]

Nitpicking the Cintas is incredibly spoiled and narrow minded. For starters, it's the nicest on-campus arena in the Big East. There are small improvements to be made, like posters have pointed out, but it's really not lacking anything. We should always be aiming to the best and continuously improving, but give me a break, basketball recruits rave about our facilities.

I for one, am hoping this improvement plan is focused more on the other sports. The baseball and soccer facilities are on a High School level yet the teams somehow manage to stay competitive. Just imagine if they had half-decent facilities. Also, O'Connor is a complete joke for a school that aims to boast strong Division 1 sports.

[throwbackmuskie]

Mullins has score boards/video boards on their "empty wall"

...

[xudash]

Nitpicking the Cintas is incredibly spoiled and narrow minded. For starters, it's the nicest on-campus arena in the Big East. There are small improvements to be made, like posters have pointed out, but it's really not lacking anything. We should always be aiming to the best and continuously improving, but give me a break, basketball recruits rave about our facilities.

I for one, am hoping this improvement plan is focused more on the other sports. The baseball and soccer facilities are on a High School level yet the teams somehow manage to stay competitive. Just imagine if they had half-decent facilities. Also, O'Connor is a complete joke for a school that aims to boast strong Division 1 sports.

Great point.

[X-man]

Nitpicking the Cintas is incredibly spoiled and narrow minded. For starters, it's the nicest on-campus arena in the Big East. There are small improvements to be made, like posters have pointed out, but it's really not lacking anything. We should always be aiming to the best and continuously improving, but give me a break, basketball recruits rave about our facilities.

I for one, am hoping this improvement plan is focused more on the other sports. The baseball and soccer facilities are on a High School level yet the teams somehow manage to stay competitive. Just imagine if they had half-decent facilities. Also, O'Connor is a complete joke for a school that aims to boast strong Division 1 sports.

There problems with Cintas that we don't see. The media areas in the locker rooms and the weight rooms need significant work; they are, in fact, not up to Big East condition so I'm told. Hopefully any improvements with Cintas will start there.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

...
They have exactly one video scoreboard on each of their two walls. They also don't have a ribbon board or even an overhead scoreboard hanging from the rafters. That place isn't even close to as nice as Cintas

[xu82]

... Especially when Cintas was originally designed to house the cafeteria?


Sorry if this was explained elsewhere and I missed it, or if it's just common knowledge to most, but what happened to the cafeteria at Cintas? Did they just outgrow it? How long did that take? It seems it didn't last very long, but maybe I'm wrong there. Was it supposed to be temporary until they grew into the next phase? How is the space used now? I like Cintas a lot for games but wonder about that aspect of the planning. (I'm just wondering because I don't know enough to be critical.)

[muskienick]

Sorry if this was explained elsewhere and I missed it, or if it's just common knowledge to most, but what happened to the cafeteria at Cintas. Did they just outgrow it? How long did that take? It seems it didn't last very long, but maybe I'm wrong there. Was it supposed to be temporary until they grew into the next phase? How is the space used now? I like Cintas a lot for games but wonder about that aspect of the planning. (I'm just wondering because I don't know enough to be critical.)

And yet that doesn't seem to be a barrier for some of our Musketeer Madness-type posters on this thread. Thank you for being inquisitive before giving a critical quote on the subject!

[BMoreX]

The new caf is in Fenwick. The old caf is currently used by several make-shift classrooms since they needed space because Alter is closed/being remodeled.

[throwbackmuskie]

They have exactly one video scoreboard on each of their two walls. They also don't have a ribbon board or even an overhead scoreboard hanging from the rafters. That place isn't even close to as nice as Cintas

Lol you can't read. I don't want a Mullins center, I would like the feature that they did behind the basket on their empty wall, video boards and such.

[XU2011]

Lol you can't read. I don't want a Mullins center, I would like the feature that they did behind the basket on their empty wall, video boards and such.

Didn't you say earlier you wish Cintas would have "used its space better" because then it could host additional events we aren't able to host now and generate more revenue?

So there are events that Cintas is excluded from hosting because we don't have 2 video boards on a wall even though we have a ribbon and brand new one midcourt?

[Xavier]

I was wondering that myself. What events is Xavier missing out on because they don't have a video board on the wall?

[throwbackmuskie]

I was giving one example of things I would like to see with the dead space. Another thing they messed up on was loading areas into the arena. Which if they had would allow for concerts and additional shows.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Lol you can't read. I don't want a Mullins center, I would like the feature that they did behind the basket on their empty wall, video boards and such.

They have one fucking scoreboard on each of their walls just like we do. Only difference is theirs have video capabilities while ours doesn't, because unlike them we actually have an overhanging scoreboard with 4 video boards. So again I ask you, what the hell do they have on their walls that Cintas doesn't besides really tacking looking ads? The answer is nothing. And you're absolutely kidding yourself if you think Cintas could ever get any big concerts with a capacity of 10,250 and being located at a small college in Norwood.

http://collegehockeyjerseys.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/0/5/11056902/1352250887.jpg

[GoMuskies]

Hpw big is the Nutter Center? I saw AC/DC there during my time at X.

[xubrew]

10,400 for basketball. 11,400 for concerts

[waggy]

You want to trash your building invite AC/DC in. I think the last time I saw them a few random cars were on fire in the parking lot.

[GoMuskies]

When was that? 1985? AC/DC crowds were pretty tame 20 years ago.

[waggy]

81, 82, or 83.

Saw them 3 or 4 times though. Sold my collection of stubs on ebay a few months back.

[GoMuskies]

Those shows were probably much more fun than the ones I went to in about '97 and '01.

[waggy]

The one with multiple car fires was probably 81, which would've actually been the first time I saw them. It's mostly just a very faded memory now. But car fires have a way of making a more lasting impression.

[paulxu]

Don't have a thread to ask this question, so I'll just put it here.

Am I being incredibly naive (always a good chance) in thinking that Xavier doesn't have any issues like North Carolina with academics?

I'd like to think that Sister Rose wouldn't let anything like that happen, or at a Jesuit school. But do our basketball players take really easy courses and get passed through to a degree with special consideration that you and I couldn't get?

[GoMuskies]

C.J. Anderson graduated. You decide.

[blobfan]

I was giving one example of things I would like to see with the dead space. Another thing they messed up on was loading areas into the arena. Which if they had would allow for concerts and additional shows.

They've had concerts and shows in the arena. Had a boxing match early on. I think one of the bigger problems is that the floor often has to come up before these events AND the like to keep the arena open for practice. Makes it a bit hard to schedule a lot of concerts.

[Jehoya]

Don't have a thread to ask this question, so I'll just put it here.

Am I being incredibly naive (always a good chance) in thinking that Xavier doesn't have any issues like North Carolina with academics?

I'd like to think that Sister Rose wouldn't let anything like that happen, or at a Jesuit school. But do our basketball players take really easy courses and get passed through to a degree with special consideration that you and I couldn't get?

I was friends with a couple bball players 2008-2012, and they HAD to go to class at X..I had class with Mark, Tu, Crawford, Isaiah, and Brad. Numerous times I saw someone from the athletic department stop in to check to see if players were in class. But, I also saw players leave when test were passed out and turn in blank test. They could have been taking it in the LAC but I'm not sure what happened next. They players I was friends with, Tu and Isaiah,turned in homework like everyone else. The classes I had, where players were there, were some of the easier classes at X, just showing up and turning in some homework meant you passed. I will say that Jcraw was not the sharpest tool in the box but he did go to the class I had with him when they didn't have games. Second semester he stopped going to all of his classes as he prepared for the NBA. I remember Dez being busted for smoking weed but no one cared. I think he had to go to some class but that was the norm for smoking in the dorms. The point is players are treated special but I don't believe they can get on the deans list for not going to class lol You have to at least try.

[xufan2020]

Let's be honest, if those North Carolina players from that 2005 team were having decent pro careers, they wouldn't be so worried about accusing the school of sabotaging their academic standards.

[Milhouse]

Yeah X would never had any "made up classes" school is way too small for something like that to pass by. I had class with numerous bball players....as im sure we all did. I doubt they were all A students but they were trying/participating.

[nuts4xu]

As a student manager in the early 90's, I can assure you, players went to class. If they didn't, they didn't play. They didn't have paper classes, and this was before the availability of internet courses too. I was also a criminal justice major, and we had a group of basketball players in my major. I know I helped them with classes, but more of a study group type thing. I shared notes and old papers with players, just like I did with any of my other classmates.

My mother was a student tudor, and helped a few different players like Brian Grant and Lenny Brown. I don't know how generous the professors were with grades, but it seems all athletes had to do the same work as any other student. They had tudors, Sr Rose, study tables, and a bunch of other resources to assist them with classes they were struggling with. But all students had access to this help if they asked for it.

Things could have changed in the past 20 years, but the culture around our program gives me the impression we are still doing a lot of the same things we have done since the beginning of the golden age of Xavier basketball.

[Xville]

I was a student at X from 2000-04 and had some classes with a few basketball players...west, chalmers, finn, sato are the ones that I remember. I had a math class (if you can really call it that as I detested Math and took the easiest one I could) with West and Chalmers and though the class was ridiculously easy, they still had to do all of the coursework just like anyone else. I particularly remember Chalmers getting into trouble a couple of times with the professor for not coming to class or being late.

I had a business class with Sato and wow that kid was extremely smart...i think it was a freshman class that I had with him and I remember him doing very well and being active in class discussion though he still struggled with english a little bit. By the time senior year rolled around, he was completely fluent. Just a really smart and likeable person.

anyways, i guess what i am trying to say is that i am sure there are little perks here and there for the bb players, but during my time, they still had to show up for class, and do all the coursework the other students did.

[Kahns Krazy]

Someone is on their high horse today.

I am not going to get into it with you, but yes they could have done a lot better when they built Cintas.

I kind of disagree with this. "They" raised a recordbreaking amount of money for what was largely viewed in the community as a commuter school for most of its existence to build an outstanding, on-campus arena that was the cornerstone for what has become a complete campus transformation. What could "they" have done better in the late 90's when they started this project?

[Kahns Krazy]

Wow where did I ever say get rid of the banquet center? Look at the Mullins Center.

My point about the Nutter Center was the used the space in the arena, not left some big empty wall.

Wasn't the Mullins center about 33% more expensive? All of your examples of other arenas that have a better "use of space" fall pretty flat under scrutiny. There is now a scoreboard on the big wall, right? And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the building designed to be able to support an expansion if ticket demand was there? It's just not there. I still think the 'Tas is a great place to watch a game. My only complaint is that they keep the lights too bright in the lower bowl.

[XU2011]

Yea, his one idea how Cintas didn't use its space well is that the Mullins Center has scoreboards on their wall...

[throwbackmuskie]

Wasn't the Mullins center about 33% more expensive? All of your examples of other arenas that have a better "use of space" fall pretty flat under scrutiny. There is now a scoreboard on the big wall, right? And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the building designed to be able to support an expansion if ticket demand was there? It's just not there. I still think the 'Tas is a great place to watch a game. My only complaint is that they keep the lights too bright in the lower bowl.

Back to this again? I never said I wanted a copy of the Mullins Center. I used it as an example of what to do with the spacing/wall/ glass windows. IMO the window wall is a complete waste. Also I do not see where they could expand seating.

As someone pointed out about concerts, yes they host a bunch of low production shows. They are not set up for any large production shows, which bring in tons of revenue. Also other events as well, the circus, monster jam, wwe. With US Bank getting passed over more and more, Cintas really could have filled the void, even at 10k seats.

[throwbackmuskie]

Yea, his one idea how Cintas didn't use its space well is that the Mullins Center has scoreboards on their wall...

And video boards, not just scoreboards. Those video boards and scoreboards generate revenue.

[xudash]

Back to this again? I never said I wanted a copy of the Mullins Center. I used it as an example of what to do with the spacing/wall/ glass windows. IMO the window wall is a complete waste. Also I do not see where they could expand seating.

As someone pointed out about concerts, yes they host a bunch of low production shows. They are not set up for any large production shows, which bring in tons of revenue. Also other events as well, the circus, monster jam, wwe. With US Bank getting passed over more and more, Cintas really could have filled the void, even at 10k seats.

FYI, not trying to pile on here, but Greg Christopher recently noted that the basketball games (mens) bring in 150,000 through the turnstiles every year. Other events apparently are "times 3" that figure - annually.

[Retire33]

FYI, not trying to pile on here, but Greg Christopher recently noted that the basketball games (mens) bring in 150,000 through the turnstiles every year. Other events apparently are "times 3" that figure - annually.

I can only imagine how much the school brings in for all the graduations they hold.

[throwbackmuskie]

FYI, not trying to pile on here, but Greg Christopher recently noted that the basketball games (mens) bring in 150,000 through the turnstiles every year. Other events apparently are "times 3" that figure - annually.

So 450K-600K a year, not a big number. Ave US arena hosts roughly 110 events per year, 1.1M through the turnstiles for Cintas at 10K per event. As for HS graduations, those are not huge money making events.

[paulxu]

My only complaint is that they keep the lights too bright in the lower bowl.

That's interesting. My memory of the Gardens was that it mostly blacked out, except for the court...a la MSG.

Assume they could do the same for Cintas if they wanted?

[Xavier]

So 450K-600K a year, not a big number. Ave US arena hosts roughly 110 events per year, 1.1M through the turnstiles for Cintas at 10K per event. As for HS graduations, those are not huge money making events.

A lot of the graduations cost right around 10K, I'd say that's easily the average. Also, problem with bigger name concerts is you have to pay them to come. (As in, it's not really booked through a promoter who pays for the venue then takes home ticket sales) For a bigger arena like US, it's easier to pay that because they have more seats to sell. I'd imagine every concert that has been at Cintas has lost money.

[throwbackmuskie]

A lot of the graduations cost right around 10K, I'd say that's easily the average. Also, problem with bigger name concerts is you have to pay them to come. (As in, it's not really booked through a promoter who pays for the venue then takes home ticket sales) For a bigger arena like US, it's easier to pay that because they have more seats to sell. I'd imagine every concert that has been at Cintas has lost money.

Promoters still book and run the big shows. Arenas are not dumb and going to book shows themselves. Also seat sales are not the only source of money. Conssessions, that is a huge money maker.

[XU2011]

And video boards, not just scoreboards. Those video boards and scoreboards generate revenue.

So all Cintas needs to do is throw up some video boards on the wall.... and we can start getting major concerts, circus, monster jam and wwe?

[Kahns Krazy]

Promoters still book and run the big shows. Arenas are not dumb and going to book shows themselves. Also seat sales are not the only source of money. Conssessions, that is a huge money maker.

I thought the video boards were the big money maker.

[throwbackmuskie]

Video boards will help make money. My point about concerts goes back to the design of the building and use of space.


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[Xavier]

Promoters still book and run the big shows. Arenas are not dumb and going to book shows themselves. Also seat sales are not the only source of money. Conssessions, that is a huge money maker.

True. But let's say Cintas pays an act $100,000 to come (which isn't really isn't a big time name act) and they add another 200 seats on the arena floor for said act. It would need to be a sell out with the average seat being $100 just to make a total of $2,000 on tickets. How much do you think concessions would make? 10K tops? (I really don't know know)

[throwbackmuskie]

Cintas does not need to pay for acts to come, promoters do that. Buildings rarely take on shows at their own cost. As for confessions it has been a bit but I think the average is roughly $15-20 per person.


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[Kahns Krazy]

True. But let's say Cintas pays an act $100,000 to come (which isn't really isn't a big time name act) and they add another 200 seats on the arena floor for said act. It would need to be a sell out with the average seat being $100 just to make a total of $2,000 on tickets. How much do you think concessions would make? 10K tops? (I really don't know know)

Your math is exceptionally bad.

[bobbiemcgee]

....... As for confessions it has been a bit but I think the average is roughly $15-20 per person.
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I think Fr. Graham charges a little more.

[throwbackmuskie]

Lol fat figured


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[JTG]

True. But let's say Cintas pays an act $100,000 to come (which isn't really isn't a big time name act) and they add another 200 seats on the arena floor for said act. It would need to be a sell out with the average seat being $100 just to make a total of $2,000 on tickets. How much do you think concessions would make? 10K tops? (I really don't know know)

Try $500,000 for the act. $75 a ticket, X makes $250k.

[sweet16]

Try $500,000 for the act. $75 a ticket, X makes $250k.

And $500,000 buys you quite a bit (at least according to this):

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/21/see-how-much-it-ll-cost-to-book-your-favorite-musical-act.html

[Xavier]

Your math is exceptionally bad.

Correct.

[JTG]

And $500,000 buys you quite a bit (at least according to this):

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/21/see-how-much-it-ll-cost-to-book-your-favorite-musical-act.html

Don't laugh, but X could book Luke Bryan, Jason Aldean, or Blake Shelton , and probably sell out in a day, or less. These Country acts are wildly popular in the Midwest.

[XU2011]

Video boards will help make money. My point about concerts goes back to the design of the building and use of space.



How will the video boards help make money? There is a ribbon around the entire arena and major center-court hung video/score board. Are they really going to be able to charge significantly more fee from supporters/advertisers because there are two video screens on the wall?

Also, I'll ask again, what specifically is bad about design of building and use of space that stops major concerts from coming? You mentioned loading and unloading docks? Is that it... and how do you know that?

[throwbackmuskie]

Yes they would be able to charge more. Better and bigger ads.

Load out for a major show would take a lot longer, I do not think they could get heavy duty trucks into the floor. Or even close to the back stage area


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[blobfan]

So 450K-600K a year, not a big number. Ave US arena hosts roughly 110 events per year, 1.1M through the turnstiles for Cintas at 10K per event. As for HS graduations, those are not huge money making events.


That's interesting. My memory of the Gardens was that it mostly blacked out, except for the court...a la MSG.

Assume they could do the same for Cintas if they wanted?
I seem to remember in the early seasons people complained that it was too dark to be safe. You just can't please everyone.

A lot of the graduations cost right around 10K, I'd say that's easily the average. Also, problem with bigger name concerts is you have to pay them to come. (As in, it's not really booked through a promoter who pays for the venue then takes home ticket sales) For a bigger arena like US, it's easier to pay that because they have more seats to sell. I'd imagine every concert that has been at Cintas has lost money.
I can't imagine that's the case. The ones sponsored by SGA were probably not designed to make money since they were subsidized, but I'm pretty sure they got paid by the promoters to host the other events. Otherwise, what's the point?

Yes they would be able to charge more. Better and bigger ads.

Load out for a major show would take a lot longer, I do not think they could get heavy duty trucks into the floor. Or even close to the back stage area
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Heavy duty trucks? How many arenas let heavy duty trucks on the floor? Seems like that would tear up any floor.

I really think it comes down to scheduling. Basketball gets first dibs/bookings second.

[throwbackmuskie]

It's a strong poured cement floor. It can hold semis.


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[throwbackmuskie]

Yes hoops gets 1st pick, but there are tons of open dates that can be filled.


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[Xavier]

There are plenty of dates but I don't think there are as many as you do. Really tough to schedule anything at all during basketball season having to wait until the schedule comes out. Then have to work around summer basketball camps as well and before you know it volleyball is starting up. Still, they could better use the dates they have available.

[throwbackmuskie]

There are plenty of dates but I don't think there are as many as you do. Really tough to schedule anything at all during basketball season having to wait until the schedule comes out. Then have to work around summer basketball camps as well and before you know it volleyball is starting up. Still, they could better use the dates they have available.

Trust me, there are plenty of dates. I have dealt with many arenas across the country, college, pro, ect. There are always dates waiting to be booked. Between Men's and Women's Hoops and Volleyball- there are only 46 games.

[Xavier]

Trust me, there are plenty of dates. I have dealt with many arenas across the country, college, pro, ect. There are always dates waiting to be booked. Between Men's and Women's Hoops and Volleyball- there are only 46 games.

I know there are plenty of dates but it is tough to schedule stuff mid basketball season without being able to do so until schedules are releases.

[throwbackmuskie]

I know there are plenty of dates but it is tough to schedule stuff mid basketball season without being able to do so until schedules are releases.

Arenas do it all the time. The arena has a pretty good idea of what the schedule looks like.

[Muskie]

Can't the Cintas Center schedule some dates before the basketball season comes out. I realize X is the number 1 tenant, but the Big East works around the Bradley Center's availability for Marquette.

[throwbackmuskie]

Can't the Cintas Center schedule some dates before the basketball season comes out. I realize X is the number 1 tenant, but the Big East works around the Bradley Center's availability for Marquette.

Yes. They can also block certain dates out, or have an event know they will be bumped if a game is scheduled.

[xudash]

An opportunity for sharing thoughts on better utilization:

http://www.cintascenter.com/contact.cfm

[muskienick]

An opportunity for sharing thoughts on better utilization:

http://www.cintascenter.com/contact.cfm

Dash,
it's obvious that Xavier simply does not care enough to provide the necessary personnel to maximize the earning potential of the Cintas Center. SHAME ON THEM!!!



(The above is meant to be read in sarcasm mode.)

[throwbackmuskie]

Dash,
it's obvious that Xavier simply does not care enough to provide the necessary personnel to maximize the earning potential of the Cintas Center. SHAME ON THEM!!!



(The above is meant to be read in sarcasm mode.)

You cna joke about it, but in reality, they do not do a lot of outside events execpt for HS graduations and and hoops games. Their schedule is pretty bare. And with Cintas being the best arena in town, you would think they would take advantage of that..

[xudash]

Dash,
it's obvious that Xavier simply does not care enough to provide the necessary personnel to maximize the earning potential of the Cintas Center. SHAME ON THEM!!!



(The above is meant to be read in sarcasm mode.)

Nick,

Clearly understaffed and under resourced. It's a damn shame. Now, in all seriousness, it clearly sounds like TBM has expertise in this area, so it wouldn't be at all out of the question for him to contact them to discuss some of his ideas. A different point of view or observations from an outside, experienced person can't hurt and may lead to some innovation for the CC.

[throwbackmuskie]

Not my place to do it. I will say this though, IMO the arena is under used, with a Sports Management Department at XU, you would think they could use Cintas as a educational opprotunity as well as a revenue generator. Maybe hiring Global Spectrum would be the best thing.

[muskiefan82]

the Bank of Kentucky Center at NKU gets used for all sorts of things. They had Cirque de Soleil there. Why can't Cintas do that?

[Xavier]

Not my place to do it. I will say this though, IMO the arena is under used, with a Sports Management Department at XU, you would think they could use Cintas as a educational opprotunity as well as a revenue generator. Maybe hiring Global Spectrum would be the best thing.

I think it is a revenue generator. It wasn't, but Mike Dunn changed that.

[Kahns Krazy]

the Bank of Kentucky Center at NKU gets used for all sorts of things. They had Cirque de Soleil there. Why can't Cintas do that?

This is a fair question. According to Wikipedia:


Concerts, Performers & Speakers at Cintas Center
Bob Dylan
Michael Moore
Dave Chappelle
Trey Anastasio
Cornel West
Talib Kweli
Guster
Anberlin
Chuck D
Paul Rusesabagina
Sr. Helen Prejean
Ben Folds
Andrew Bird
O.A.R.
The Isley Brothers
Jane Goodall
Paula Deen
John Boehner
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
Demetri Martin
Ann Coulter
Jack's Mannequin
Dane Cook
Aaron Feuerstein
Jason Mraz
Sarah Brightman
The Wiggles
Dave Ramsey
Blessid Union of Souls
Sean Hannity
Jim Rome
The Wreckers
Taking Back Sunday
Fr. John Corapi
Elie Wiesel
Filming location for the 2011 movie The Ides of March (film)
Neon Trees
Owl City

For 13 years, that's not all that impressive of a list.

I do know that they do a lot of corporate events there, including some events in the main arena.

[X-band '01]

As long as the Wiggles are on the list, we're all good.

[throwbackmuskie]

As long as the Wiggles are on the list, we're all good.

F that give me a full Wiggles weekend show, That show brings in big $$$$.

[muskiefan82]

I looked at the event history for the Bank of Kentucky Center since it opened in 2008. It's quite a list. The Wiggles have been there too.


2008
• Carrie Underwood – September 24
• Jeff Dunham – September 26
• Action Sports World Tour – October 3 & 4
• Cirque du Soleil – Saltimbanco – October 8 – 12
• So You Think You Can Dance – October 24
• Walking With Dinosaurs – October 29 – November 2
• Alan Jackson – November 7
• The Wiggles – November 11
• NKU Norse Men’s and Women’s Basketball
• The “World Famous” Lipizzaner Stallions – November 29 & 30
• Casting Crowns – December 5
• Bluegrass-Buckeye Charity Holiday Classic – December 13 & 14
2009
• NKU Norse Men’s and Women’s Basketball
• Monster Nationals – Janurary 16 & 17
• KHSAA 9th & 10th Region Boy’s and Girl’s Tournament – March 2 - 10
• Arenacross – March 20 - 22
• Gaither Homecoming – March 28
• Larry the Cable Guy – April 2
• Sesame Street – Elmo Grows Up – April 22 – 26
• Thomas & Friends Live – June 10 & 11
• Jay-Z – October 10
• The Royal Hanneford Circus – November 6 – 8
• REO Speedwagon, STYX, and Night Ranger – November 10
• Daughtry – November 13
• Dane Cook – November 15
• Shinedown and Papa Roach – December 5
• Bluegrass-Buckeye Charity Holiday Classic – December 12 & 13
2010
• NKU Norse Men’s and Women’s Basketball
• Curious George Live – January 8 - 10
• Monster Nationals – Janurary 29 & 30
• Jeff Dunham – January 31
• Jason Aldean and Luke Bryan – February 19
• Martina McBride and Trace Adkins – February 28
• KHSAA 9th Region Boy’s and Girl’s Tournament – March 1 - 7
• Breaking Benjamin – March 19
• Sesame Street – Elmo’s Green Thumb – April 15 - 18
• Cirque du Soleil Alegria – April 28 – May 2
• The Wiggles – August 25
• The U.S. Army’s Spirit of America – September 17 & 18
• Bob Dylan – November 3
• Bluegrass-Buckeye Charity Holiday Classic – December 10 & 11
2011
• NKU Norse Men’s and Women’s Basketball
• Blake Shelton – February 16
• KHSAA 9th Region Boy’s and Girl’s Tournament – February 27 – March 5
• TNA IMPACT Wrestling – March 8
• NCAA Division II Men’s Elite Eight – March 21-24
• Cirque du Soleil Dralion – March 28 – April 1
• Cincinnati Easter Ball featuring Diggy Simmons – April 7
• Picadilly Circus – April 16 & 17
• Barry Manilow – April 20
• Black-n-Bluegrass Roller Girls
• Dominican Republic National Basketball Team Exhibition – June 12 & 13
• Jeff Dunham – July 19
• Hillsong LIVE – September 14
• Alan Jackson with Jana Kramer – November 17
• Gaither Christmas Homecoming – December 14
2012
• NKU Norse Men’s and Women’s Basketball
• Blake Shelton – February 16
• KHSAA 9th Region Boy’s and Girl’s Tournament – February 27 – March 5
• TNA IMPACT Wrestling – March 8
• NCAA Division II Men’s Elite Eight – March 21-24
• Cirque du Soleil Dralion – March 28 – April 1
• Cincinnati Easter Ball featuring Diggy Simmons – April 7
• Picadilly Circus – April 16 & 17
• Barry Manilow – April 20
• Black-n-Bluegrass Roller Girls
• Dominican Republic National Basketball Team Exhibition – June 12 & 13
• Jeff Dunham – July 19
• Hillsong LIVE – September 14
• Alan Jackson with Jana Kramer – November 17
• Gaither Christmas Homecoming – December 14
2013
• NKU Norse Men’s and Women’s Basketball
• Monster X Tour – February 8 & 9
• A Kid Again Basketball Extravaganza – February 15
• KHSAA 9th Region Boy’s and Girl’s Tournament – February 25 – March 3
• Chris Tomlin with Kari Jobe – April 11
• The Harlem Globetrotters – April 19
• Black-n-Bluegrass Girls Roller Derby
• Tobymac - November 10
• Justin Moore with Randy Houser - November 15
• Mindless Behavior - November 27
• Kenny Rogers Christmas & Hits - December 9
2014
• NKU Norse Men’s and Women’s Basketball
• A Kid Again Basketball Extravaganza – February 7
• H.S. Basketball Double Header - Dixie vs. Cov Cath & Holmes vs. New Cath - February 14
• KHSAA District 35 Boys' Semifinals and Championship Game - February 26 and March 1
• 2 Chainz - March 2
• KHSAA 9th Region Boy’s and Girl’s Tournament – March 3 - 10
• NKY River Monsters Indoor Football
• Extraordinary Women's Conference - March 28 - 29

[Smooth]

Kudos to the BoKC for their consistency in 2011 and 2012.

[BillHill]

Clearly we need and can get involved in the country music niche...its only another 15 miles. People will travel to us for that if they went to NKU

[waggy]

So what I'm reading is that the Xavier Athletics Strategic Plan is to go "Bro-Country".




No, ah nevermind...

[nuts4xu]

Kudos to the BoKC for their consistency in 2011 and 2012.

It is tough enough to schedule the same acts 2 years in a row, but they actually scheduled them on the same dates 2 years in a row too.

I am with you Smooth, props to BOKC.

[KabeX]

I was there with my 4 year old. It was EPIC.


As long as the Wiggles are on the list, we're all good.