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View Full Version : The Problem for Sports Parents: Overspending



Mel Cooley XU'81
05-13-2014, 02:32 PM
The Wall Street Journal reports: Large amounts of money can transform parental support into pressure. (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303851804579558103723377142?mod=WS J_hp_RightTopStories&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB1000 1424052702303851804579558103723377142.html%3Fmod%3 DWSJ_hp_RightTopStories&fpid=2,7,121,122,201,401,641,1009)


Greater parental spending tends to weaken a child's sense of ownership of his athletic career, sometimes destroying his will to succeed, he says. "Kids are being labeled as burnouts when actually they're just angry at having no options in their lives,"

My kids are (just) old enough that I missed out on what I recognized years ago as "The Gear Culture," personal trainers for kids, multi-state travel teams, etc. Another reason it's great to be old.

How's it working for you?

GoMuskies
05-13-2014, 02:35 PM
We're about to start overspending on gymnastics for an 8 year old. I read this article today as well, and it certainly gave me some pause, but gymnastics is unfortunately one of those sports where it's almost unavoidable. You either spend and travel, or you tell your kid that she's never even going to have the opportunity to be any good.

bleedXblue
05-13-2014, 02:54 PM
It's become an absolute joke. Mommy and Daddy want Johnny and Suzy to play club volleyball or club soccer b/c all of the other kids are doing it. 99% of the kids have no shot at making a career out of it, let alone earn a college scholarship. You drive all over the place spend thousands of dollars and at the end of the day have very little to show for it. You can lump all of the other sports into it as well......wasn't isolating volleyball or soccer.

My advice is just to let it play out. Your kid either has a gift or they don't.

Juice
05-13-2014, 02:58 PM
It's become an absolute joke. Mommy and Daddy want Johnny and Suzy to play club volleyball or club soccer b/c all of the other kids are doing it. 99% of the kids have no shot at making a career out of it, let alone earn a college scholarship. You drive all over the place spend thousands of dollars and at the end of the day have very little to show for it. You can lump all of the other sports into it as well......wasn't isolating volleyball or soccer.

My advice is just to let it play out. Your kid either has a gift or they don't.

I agree with a lot of your point but I will say its tough to know if your kid is gifted or just dominating a bunch of scrubs because most of the talent does play on travel teams.

ammtd34
05-13-2014, 03:07 PM
You drive all over the place spend thousands of dollars and at the end of the day have very little to show for it. You can lump all of the other sports into it as well......wasn't isolating volleyball or soccer.



Your point is well taken and you are right that there usually isn't much to show for it. I never felt pressured to make a career out soccer. Aside from amateur leagues, Xavier was the end of my career.

There are different ways to go about it, though. From the time I was 14 until I was 18, we were all over the country every Thanksgiving, Christmas, and each Spring weekend. If we were going someplace new or interesting, my parents would take off the Thursday and Friday before the tournament and head out early. This allowed for 3 or 4 mini-vacations per year in places we wouldn't have otherwise seen. For example, we had a tournament in Erie when I was 15. We spent two days in Niagara Falls. We wouldn't have had a reason to go there otherwise. Two extra days in Chicago, Las Vegas, Tampa, DC, Seattle etc... It still allowed for family time without making the travel feel like a burden.

Juice
05-13-2014, 03:30 PM
Your point is well taken and you are right that there usually isn't much to show for it. I never felt pressured to make a career out soccer. Aside from amateur leagues, Xavier was the end of my career.

There are different ways to go about it, though. From the time I was 14 until I was 18, we were all over the country every Thanksgiving, Christmas, and each Spring weekend. If we were going someplace new or interesting, my parents would take off the Thursday and Friday before the tournament and head out early. This allowed for 3 or 4 mini-vacations per year in places we wouldn't have otherwise seen. For example, we had a tournament in Erie when I was 15. We spent two days in Niagara Falls. We wouldn't have had a reason to go there otherwise. Two extra days in Chicago, Las Vegas, Tampa, DC, Seattle etc... It still allowed for family time without making the travel feel like a burden.

I played in that Erie tournament. Good tournament but being in Erie sucked.

Tardy Turtle
05-13-2014, 04:02 PM
being in Erie sucked.

Try growing up there... you have no idea.

wkrq59
05-13-2014, 04:16 PM
I spent 40 -plus years in the toy department--sports--of local and daily newspapers. Almost lost a job when I was told to interview a 6-year-old motocross racer..and refused. The very worst thing about youth sports is that they exist.
I had an 11-year-old African American youngster tell me, "I wish I never tried out for the pee wee football team and made it. Practices --every weekday--were no fun. Games should be fun but for most of us they weren't because the coach thought he's coaching pros. I want to win but I want to have fun, too. " I had both boys and girls tell me the same thing in different sports.
I had a high school junior soccer player tell me she had better uniforms and instruction in the elite leagues outside school. A basketball player showed me a trophy case that his dad made him. It was loaded and he had no scholarship to college.
The biggest complaint of most kids is that they missed having fun in the summers and that their school teams were a big let down because they weren't fun. I could write and fill a book with the horror stories but it's useless. Two NFL players told me they would never let their sons play football until they were in high school if they so desired and physically able.
One kid on a state champion baseball club told me the best fun he ever had in the game was on a sandlot game in the summer at the local high school with a bunch of his friends. Games started at noon and went until it got dark and they all went to Frisch's afterwards.

xu82
05-13-2014, 05:06 PM
I played organized sports growing up, but most often it was just the guys at the field doing our own thing having a blast. Things changed... by the time my kids were 8 they had played more games with referees and uniforms than I did my whole life. It was non-stop. We were part of the problem enabling this, but you can no longer let your kids disappear on their bikes and come back at sundown in many places. And they have nowhere to go if you let them - the schools have fenced and locked their fields for liability and vandalism reasons. The leagues were our only real option, and the kids were into it. When they got bored with tennis or soccer, we moved on to something else to blow cash on. Golf lessons anyone? Mix in some piano or Odyssey of the Mind. The one thing we regret the most is not making them have some type of job. Learning how to hold a job and where those dollars come from might have prepared them better and given them more appreciation for their blessings.

xu82
05-13-2014, 05:41 PM
That karate stuff can be a real racket! We took our kid to a few classes. One day he comes home all excited. Thrilled! Giddy even! He got invited to join the Black Belt Club!!! That will be $800, thank you very much. Hard to tell the kid he's not a Super Hero, its just a scam.

XU-PA
05-13-2014, 05:58 PM
The other way to look at it, and I'm starting too since my former bball playing daughter is embarking on a sport management career, is that this is an industry and is creating jobs all over the country.
Yes parents are spending too much money on their kids. I suppose I did. My daughter played something all, year long in school, and often had off season sports going at the same time another school sport was going on. We did AAU bball from 5th grade right through high school. She had a trainer that she went to on occasion for off season workouts, probably only cost us a grand or so over all those years. And the travel was pricey, hotel rooms are not cheap.
But I wouldn't trade one dollar or moment of it, getting to spend so much time on something your kid truly loves is worth every penny.

Key being it was something she truly loved.

xu82
05-13-2014, 07:55 PM
The other way to look at it, and I'm starting too since my former bball playing daughter is embarking on a sport management career, is that this is an industry and is creating jobs all over the country.
Yes parents are spending too much money on their kids. I suppose I did. My daughter played something all, year long in school, and often had off season sports going at the same time another school sport was going on. We did AAU bball from 5th grade right through high school. She had a trainer that she went to on occasion for off season workouts, probably only cost us a grand or so over all those years. And the travel was pricey, hotel rooms are not cheap.
But I wouldn't trade one dollar or moment of it, getting to spend so much time on something your kid truly loves is worth every penny.

Key being it was something she truly loved.


Awesome stuff! If they love it then it's golden. Too many parents force the kids into participating when they have no interest. I certainly agree we need to get kids off the couch and away from the video games, but it's a delicate balance. You can't make them like it, even if they need activity. It has become a serious industry, though. The travel time together is generally full of fond memories. Probably half of our closest friends came from our kids traveling teams. You grow a real bond during all that stuff.

bobbiemcgee
05-13-2014, 08:26 PM
Advice to all - It has to be THEIR idea or it won't work. Course, if you just happen to take your boy to 20 Reds games when he's 6-7, guess what?

:happy:

xu82
05-13-2014, 08:39 PM
Advice to all - It has to be THEIR idea or it won't work. Course, if you just happen to take your boy to 20 Reds games when he's 6-7, guess what?

:happy:

He learns to love popcorn and hot dogs?

bobbiemcgee
05-13-2014, 08:48 PM
He learns to love popcorn and hot dogs?

Get obese and a subsidy for Obamacare. Exactly my point.

gladdenguy
05-13-2014, 09:04 PM
This is a very interesting conversation and I enjoy reading comments from parents with experience in this thread.
I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old....both girls. For me....that is good. We don't need another competitor and die hard sports fan in this family. I make up for about 4 boys when I used to play and now that I watch.....its even worse. And it gets worse every year for me. I still love the Creighton game where I was convinced it was better luck for me to walk around the concourse at Cintas then to go back to my seat with under a minute when I knew the game was over. I have issues.
My 4 year old......it seems has no athletic ability whatsoever. Its early but princesses, dresses, playing house, and clothes in general occupy all of her time. We do have her participate in gymnastics once a week for exercise, swim lessons in the spring to get ready for the summer, and soccer one night a week in the winter. I will never force her into anything. Her sports experience will be exercise and fun with friends.
The younger of my girls seems like more of a tomboy. Aggressive, not scared of anything. Seems like the exact opposite.
We'll see.
I know it can be expensive with all the travel but if you do that I guess you have to cherish the time spent together with family on the trips and riding to and from practice and games. With daughters I am scared of the 8-18 years. I don't know what they have in store for me....well more importantly....my girls.

xu82
05-13-2014, 09:33 PM
Love and cherish every second! It will be gone in the blink of an eye. You don't need to have an Olympic Athlete to enjoy it. We have video of kids picking weeds in tee-ball and doing snow angels in basketball. (My kids were jumping over them like traffic cones - mere obstacles to add to the degree of difficulty - but we come from the superior gene pool, of course :rolleyes:). The friendships and bonds are forever. The cost was significant, but to us not a huge deal [edit - because we have determined we will work until we die - maybe that's a bad thing?]. Some others were more challenged but subsidized by those who could afford it. It's been a few years and I really miss those times.

xu82
05-13-2014, 10:21 PM
One son was "All Everything" in high school. Multiple sports, ranked in Florida, POY, MVP, college recruiters, etc. My favorite memory is from roughly 5th-6th grade baseball. The third baseman was facing a hard throwing but wild pitcher. Took one hard in the left temple. Skipped a couple games and then came back clearly skittish. First game back, a ball was popped up, way, way up, to third. He was petrified and that was clear. Not sure if he wet himself, but it was a possibility. My son at short stop came over and put his right hand on the kids left shoulder to calm him and caught the ball with his left then just gave him a pat. I have never been more proud in my life. There are expenses, and there are also all kinds of life lessons. (The other boy was just not meant to go much further.)

xu82
05-13-2014, 10:37 PM
Get obese and a subsidy for Obamacare. Exactly my point.

I thought that was your plan. You don't want others getting access to emergency medical care that you are not getting. That just wouldn't be fair.

Nigel Tufnel
05-13-2014, 10:38 PM
This is an interesting conversation. I have a 10 year old boy, 8 year old girl and 6 year old boy. I'm torn on this subject. I was head coach for my oldest son's basketball team last year on the B team. He bumped up to the A team this year and I was an assistant. They played 37 games this season. And had practices twice a week. I played 20 games in the regular season throughout my varsity high school career. Insane. Thing is...my son loved it. I get pretty critical of his play sometimes....but then, I realize that in the 4th grade, he is playing at about the same level of competence that I did when I was in the 8th grade. He is so much better than I was at his age that it is mind boggling. I make sure I tell him that a lot.

Now the 6 year old is starting to play basketball and baseball. And having an older brother, he is TONS better than his older brother was...because he has to keep up with older brother and his friends. He averaged double figures in his kindergarten basketball league and he kills the ball in tball. I'm sure he will be playing select baseball and basketball by the 2nd grade.

On top of all of that...our 8 year old girl is on swim team, gymnastics and in a jazz dance class.

I thought basketball season was crazy...but baseball games are twice as long....so time consuming. Right now, oldest in playing select baseball, youngest is playing rec tball and the girl is in 3 different activities. We have activities Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday. The time involved each night is about 5:30 to 9:00 I'm growing weary of it. The kids love it...but I'm wondering if they are actually having the opportunity to be kids. Gone are the days of playing with the neighborhood kids from sun up to sun down. Whiffle ball games with the neighbors no longer seems to exist. Playing 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 in the drive way...nope. Its sad.

And the politics involved is also annoying. Half the parents act like nutjobs....berating the kids when they make a turnover or an error. Thinking that its totally normal to have kids be in school all day and have 2.5 hour games baseball games three nights in a row and on the third game, the kids play sloppy. And they can't understand how or why it could happen. And then my wife is worried that other parents think our son made the team because of us and not on merits....even though we have absolutely no pull in our town. Its a lot of undue stress. I wrestle with it every day. But the only reason I do it is because my kids want to do it. And more importantly, they love having their dad coach them. Some of my best memories will be the rides to and from practices and games...just talking to them one on one.

I really have a conflicted love/hate relationship with youth sports right now....and its only going to be worse. What the hell is my life going to be like when I have a 13 year old, 11 year old and 9 year old? We'll have to hire someone to drive them to their activities....oh...and my wife and I both work full time. Good God.....

xu82
05-13-2014, 11:00 PM
This is an interesting conversation. I have a 10 year old boy, 8 year old girl and 6 year old boy. I'm torn on this subject. I was head coach for my oldest son's basketball team last year on the B team. He bumped up to the A team this year and I was an assistant. They played 37 games this season. And had practices twice a week. I played 20 games in the regular season throughout my varsity high school career. Insane. Thing is...my son loved it. I get pretty critical of his play sometimes....but then, I realize that in the 4th grade, he is playing at about the same level of competence that I did when I was in the 8th grade. He is so much better than I was at his age that it is mind boggling. I make sure I tell him that a lot.

Now the 6 year old is starting to play basketball and baseball. And having an older brother, he is TONS better than his older brother was...because he has to keep up with older brother and his friends. He averaged double figures in his kindergarten basketball league and he kills the ball in tball. I'm sure he will be playing select baseball and basketball by the 2nd grade.

On top of all of that...our 8 year old girl is on swim team, gymnastics and in a jazz dance class.

I thought basketball season was crazy...but baseball games are twice as long....so time consuming. Right now, oldest in playing select baseball, youngest is playing rec tball and the girl is in 3 different activities. We have activities Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday. The time involved each night is about 5:30 to 9:00 I'm growing weary of it. The kids love it...but I'm wondering if they are actually having the opportunity to be kids. Gone are the days of playing with the neighborhood kids from sun up to sun down. Whiffle ball games with the neighbors no longer seems to exist. Playing 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 in the drive way...nope. Its sad.

And the politics involved is also annoying. Half the parents act like nutjobs....berating the kids when they make a turnover or an error. Thinking that its totally normal to have kids be in school all day and have 2.5 hour games baseball games three nights in a row and on the third game, the kids play sloppy. And they can't understand how or why it could happen. And then my wife is worried that other parents think our son made the team because of us and not on merits....even though we have absolutely no pull in our town. Its a lot of undue stress. I wrestle with it every day. But the only reason I do it is because my kids want to do it. And more importantly, they love having their dad coach them. Some of my best memories will be the rides to and from practices and games...just talking to them one on one.

I really have a conflicted love/hate relationship with youth sports right now....and its only going to be worse. What the hell is my life going to be like when I have a 13 year old, 11 year old and 9 year old? We'll have to hire someone to drive them to their activities....oh...and my wife and I both work full time. Good God.....

I went roughly a decade without seeing my wife on weekends. She was at the soccer/baseball field while I hit the hoops gym (air conditioned btw, pay attention) or vice versa. Any more than two kids and you're out numbered. Best of luck! And then before you know it you will miss it dearly. To be completely serious, I'm glad we were married 5 years before we had kids. It was important time before we took on the tough and wonderful task of having kids.

blobfan
05-14-2014, 01:03 AM
I hesitate to render an opinion given that I don't have children myself and will never face this dilemma, so I'll just share this observation.

I know a family with 4 kids, 3 in sports, 1 on a traveling team, who spends so much on the sports that their budget is razor thin, even with all the time they put into fundraisers. One of the kids got injured last year and they accepted Christmas gifts from church to supplement the kids gifts because they couldn't afford the usual stuff.

What kind of lesson is that for kids, no matter how much they enjoy the game?

Fireball
05-14-2014, 07:55 AM
I have two girls, 8 and 5. They play Y sports, mainly because I just want them to have fun playing and learn the game. If they get into anything in particular, or start to get serious about a sport of two, we'll change to more of a competitive league, but for now, the Y is perfect. My girls get to play baseball, soccer, volleyball, basketball, and they have both done swimming, dance, and gymnastics through the Y as well. They're not serious about any of it...just having fun at this point, and I'm cool with that. I've even done a little bit of coaching through the Y, and have enjoyed that as well.

I'll tell you now that my 8-year-old is nothing resembling an athlete, but she appreciates sports. She's now my buddy to take a X and Reds games, and is really starting to get into it. My 5-year-old is stocky and tough. If one of them is an athlete, it will be her, but it's tough to tell how interested she's going to be at this point. When she is engaged, she's good at her sports. That engagement doesn't yet come all that often, though.

But especially for my two girls, the Y is perfect for now, and they're able to try out a lot of different activities through that.

ammtd34
05-14-2014, 10:03 AM
I played in that Erie tournament. Good tournament but being in Erie sucked.

Great fields, though.

Cheesehead
05-14-2014, 12:02 PM
My son has played AAU since the 5th grade and we have spent a fair amount of money on it over the years and traveled mostly in tri-state area. Both sides are right here. His goal was to play in college and he truly loves hoops. Probably could have played another varsity sport in HS but he made the decision on his own to concentrate on hoops. If you want to get looked at, then AAU tournaments and some showcase stuff is the best way. I also see some pretty shady stuff in the AAU circuit, there are good programs and sleezy programs and you see kids jump from one program to next in an effort to promote themselves. I know my son has a lot of good memories and this season will be the last for him in AAU. He met a lot of great kids, had some good coaches and saw some cities and he got better as a player due to talent lavel he faced, so it's not all bad. He may or not play in college; if he does it would most likely be D-3 or NAIA. He has also thought of walking on somewhere. We are still trying to figure all that out. The odds are most kids won't even play in college, so each family has to sit down and evaluate the pros and cons. I can tell you that for him, his AAU experience has been better than his HS experience and he seems to enjoy it more than HS team but that is largely a coaching/program issue that I won't get into here.

ammtd34
05-14-2014, 12:44 PM
I can tell you that for him, his AAU experience has been better than his HS experience and he seems to enjoy it more than HS team but that is largely a coaching/program issue that I won't get into here.

This is an interesting point that I hadn't realized until right now. I am 29. My high school team won a state championship. My club team won 2 State Cups. Today, I talk weekly with guys from my club team. I rarely talk to guys I went to high school with. I don't know the reason. It may be because almost everyone on my club team played in college while fewer high school teammates did, so we had more smiliar college experiences. Whatever the reason, I'm more grateful to my club team for that.

drudy23
05-14-2014, 12:52 PM
AAU Basketball and Select Baseball has been and will slowly eliminate youth parish sports. I'm sure a new select football elague is somewhere on the horizon where someone will go for the money grab of knowing adults will pay for anything they think may land little Johnny a scholarship.

The Archdiocese Charter on Youth Athletics is driving away people in droves as well. They're not willing to jump through the hoops when there's basically an unregulated (but corrupt) alternative.

It just all feels very dirty to me, even though I have kids that do some of it. I've heard parents of third graders say "well, that's the path to playing at Elder" as their reason for their kids not playing at their schools and paying for select teams. As if athletic talent at 8 years old translate to a stud at 16.

GoMuskies
05-14-2014, 01:18 PM
The only sport I really know anything about (or at least used to know anything about) in terms of how you go about becoming an elite player is baseball. There were four guys on my high school team who were drafted, one of them the #1 overall pick. None of them played anything other that Little League/Babe Ruth until 14, and three of them (including the guy drafted #1 overall) stayed with Little League/Babe Ruth through 16. I assume that path doesn't really work anymore (unfortunately), so I am interested to see how that system works now. My oldest boy is 6, so he's still playing at the Y, but the move to a "real" league is coming pretty soon. I'm hopeful (though not optimistic) that it will be like the leagues I played in as a kid, where it was not too crazy, but competitive enough that I played with and against a ton of kids who became pros/played in college.

Xman95
05-14-2014, 01:33 PM
Try growing up there... you have no idea.

Try living an hour to the west in Ashtabula. Yeah, I win.

XU 87
05-14-2014, 02:06 PM
I get pretty critical of his play sometimes....but then, I realize that in the 4th grade, he is playing at about the same level of competence that I did when I was in the 8th grade. He is so much better than I was at his age that it is mind boggling. I make sure I tell him that a lot.



So what you're really trying to say is that his mother is a really good athlete.

Nigel Tufnel
05-14-2014, 04:41 PM
So what you're really trying to say is that his mother is a really good athlete.

Hehe. Ummm....no. Just the overall level of play and intensity is insane compared to when I was a kid. Hell, I probably played only a few more than 37 games in 4th, 5th and 6th grade combined. In our city rec league in 5th and 6th grade, we'd practice once a week and have one game a week. Probably played about 10 games total all year. 4th grade Nigel was just learning the game and was playing 6-7 games on Saturday mornings in Y basketball. 4th Grade Nigel would want no part of 4th grade Alex on the basketball court. If 4th grade Nigel had played 4th grade Alex in a game of one on one...or if I would have had to play against him in a game...I probably would have wanted to quit. I may have been speaking in hyperbole by comparing it to me in 8th grade...but he is better now (4th grade) than I was in 6th grade. Not surprising with the grind these kids go through.

On a side note...anyone have kids that are getting into the Kevin Durant KD shoes, Lebron shoes and Nike Elite socks? My God. I think they try to make the shoes as ugly as humanly possible just to see how many stupid parents will buy them for their kids. $15 for one pair of socks? Basketball shoes for little kids between $100-200? And they'll just grow out of them in 6 months. Wife and I caved and bought our son some Lebron's for his birthday. A month later he says he wants to use his own money and buy some KDs. He's going to have a rude awakening if he thinks he is going to be getting multiple pairs of basketball shoes each year so he can look "cool." My parents would have laughed at me if I asked them for a pair of $50 shoes when I was in 4th grade. They would have laughed harder if I wanted one pair of socks for $10. And its only just begun....

Kahns Krazy
05-14-2014, 05:01 PM
Disclaimer: no kids.

I feel like I had a pretty well rounded youth. I rode bikes with my friends, played in non-competitive (SAY) soccer and whatever else when it was that season. It was mostly kids I went to school with. Some teams were school affiliated, and some were neighborhood affiliated. My dad coached one of my teams at one point, but for the most part, my parents were hands off, unless it was their turn to bring the snacks and drinks for after the game. In high school I played on an indoor soccer team for a while that was probably more competitive than I was, so I drifted away from it after a while.

I see the kids now. I have no doubt that there are a ton of great things that the kids get out of these new-breed leagues and travel sports. My thoughts are that I would be worried about the sports becomming an identifying force. Someone above said that they basically didn't see their wife on weekend days for 10 years. While I'm sure that is some hyperbole, there is at least some truth in there.

I just wonder what the impact is on the husband-wife relationship in this balls-deep kind of commitment to kids sports. What do you do when the kids start driving or go to college and all you've done in your free time for the last 15 years has been kid oriented? I have a friend with a kid who is a sophomore, and she has honestly talked about getting an apartment in whatever city he goes to college so that she can continue to attend all of his events. What sort of f**ked up line of thought leads to that being something that you say outloud to anyone??

What does the kid do when he gets to college and doesn't play lacrosse anymore. If you're not good enough at it to make a career out of it, should you let it influence your choice in schools?

The other thing I don't understand is parents attending practices. That concept is just weird to me.

xavierj
05-14-2014, 05:08 PM
My two cents, most of today's parents pushing their kids into travel teams and sport specialization are a joke and most probably did not have much success as an athlete. Unless your kid is going to be tall, fast, smart and athletic you would be better off investing in something else. Most of the aau leagues today are for parents who never played sports to pound thier chests.

My advice, let your kids decide what is fun and after they go through puberty, everything else will take care of itself. The great 6th grader rarely is the great 18 year old when it comes to sports.

XUFan09
05-14-2014, 05:34 PM
I have a friend with a kid who is a sophomore, and she has honestly talked about getting an apartment in whatever city he goes to college so that she can continue to attend all of his events. What sort of f**ked up line of thought leads to that being something that you say outloud to anyone??

I have read about this actually deterring college coaches from recruiting a kid. It depends partly on how your friend approaches the game. Does she just attend everything as a supportive parent, or does she have strong opinions on his play and what is best for his game? If it's the latter, the prospect of her tagging along to college would scare off a lot of coaches.

SixFig
05-14-2014, 08:36 PM
This kind of thing has to be correlated with the rise of Tommy John surgery for young pitchers. Why push kids too hard before..say...15 or so? Let them live.

I mean...who is scouting your 5th grader club team or no? Talent shines through.

xu82
05-14-2014, 09:11 PM
This kind of thing has to be correlated with the rise of Tommy John surgery for young pitchers. Why push kids too hard before..say...15 or so? Let them live.

I mean...who is scouting your 5th grader club team or no? Talent shines through.

Exactly - if your kid is good enough, your kid will be good enough. People told us our kids would be behind because we didn't let them play football until high school. Actually, their kids were behind because they were timid or weak or slow. There's nothing wrong with that, we're all different. Everyone fits somewhere, but some may be destined for chess or drama or math club instead of middle linebacker. Let them find that. If you're born with it, you don't need to specialize before college. Lebron hasn't played football since high school, but I'd like him as my teams tight end. (And for the record, math club beats the pants off of your average college athlete's parks and recreation or criminal psychology major/possible degree.)

Kahns Krazy
05-14-2014, 10:38 PM
I have read about this actually deterring college coaches from recruiting a kid. It depends partly on how your friend approaches the game. Does she just attend everything as a supportive parent, or does she have strong opinions on his play and what is best for his game? If it's the latter, the prospect of her tagging along to college would scare off a lot of coaches.

Uh, no. The concept of following your child around as they become an independent adult is frightening and creepy no matter what, game or not. What is she going to do when he gets his first job?

GoMuskies
05-14-2014, 10:41 PM
What is she going to do when he gets his first job?

Funny you should ask. The Wall Street Journal covered this topic as well. And...it....is.........disturbing.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323864604579066964214209866

ammtd34
05-15-2014, 07:39 AM
I understand the landscape of American youth sports is changing (or has changed), but what we're talking about is child's play compared to some European academies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?pagewanted=all

XUFan09
05-15-2014, 10:04 AM
Uh, no. The concept of following your child around as they become an independent adult is frightening and creepy no matter what, game or not. What is she going to do when he gets his first job?

That goes without saying. I'm just suggesting that her obsession with her kid's life could also backfire, as he might miss out on some good opportunities because coaches don't want the baggage.

xavierj
05-15-2014, 11:56 AM
I understand the landscape of American youth sports is changing (or has changed), but what we're talking about is child's play compared to some European academies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?pagewanted=all

Europe has it right when it comes to basketball until the kid gets into high school. They teach nothing but fundamentals and pretty much play 3 on 3 until a kid hits about 13. The 3 on 3 thing is very smart if you are trying to teach kids how to move and pick and roll, play man to man and just learn the game. Sometimes when kids are young the 5 on 5 thing confuses them, especially if a coach is trying to run too many offensive plays. Keep it simple stupid.

ammtd34
05-15-2014, 12:26 PM
Europe has it right when it comes to basketball until the kid gets into high school. They teach nothing but fundamentals and pretty much play 3 on 3 until a kid hits about 13. The 3 on 3 thing is very smart if you are trying to teach kids how to move and pick and roll, play man to man and just learn the game. Sometimes when kids are young the 5 on 5 thing confuses them, especially if a coach is trying to run too many offensive plays. Keep it simple stupid.

It's how they teach soccer, too. 5 v 5 games on hard surfaces (street, basketball courts) are where most of the world learns how to play. There's a quote in that article from the Ajax youth director.

"When they are not with us, they play on the streets. They play with their friends. Sometimes that’s more important. They have the ball at their feet without anyone telling them what to do.”

That's the exact opposite of the soccer structure in the US.

blobfan
05-15-2014, 02:00 PM
Funny you should ask. The Wall Street Journal covered this topic as well. And...it....is.........disturbing.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323864604579066964214209866

Just like the sports discussion, the problem here isn't really that parents attend or receive relevant information. The problem is when they overstep boundaries by calling coaches/employers to discus playing time/salary or why a kid didn't make the team/get the job.

waggy
05-15-2014, 02:41 PM
Should You Bring Mom and Dad to the Office?

Employers Are Embracing the Involvement of Parents to Attract and Hold On to Talent



Paul From was used to meeting the spouses and children of employees at company events. As chief executive of Central Wire Industries, a manufacturing firm based in Perth, Ontario, he has long held regular baseball games to get to know his employees better.

But in the past five years, he has noticed his 20- and 30-something employees have started bringing new guests to company socials: Mom and Dad.

Millennials—people born between 1981 and the early 2000s—are much closer to their parents than previous generations, and they have gained a reputation for being coddled by so-called helicopter parents, say researchers who study Millennials. But when they started joining the workforce in the early 2000s, managers balked at parents getting involved in their kids' workplace struggles or job searches.

That was then. Now, some firms have begun embracing parental involvement and using it to attract and hold onto talent and boost employee morale.



http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323864604579066964214209866

XUFan09
05-15-2014, 06:18 PM
I don't have a facepalm picture good enough for that info..

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

X-band '01
05-15-2014, 06:58 PM
I don't have a facepalm picture good enough for that info..

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

1441

NY44
05-15-2014, 07:22 PM
Should You Bring Mom and Dad to the Office?

Employers Are Embracing the Involvement of Parents to Attract and Hold On to Talent





http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323864604579066964214209866


I have actually brought my mom into an office before. I was an intern while in college so I guess it was a little different. My mom was visiting for parent's weekend and my boss got wind of it then she insisted that I bring her in. I can't emphasize how much I hated that. It really sent me back to my childhood days when parents meet your teachers. I would imagine women may be more inclined to like this idea.

xu82
05-15-2014, 07:48 PM
I have actually brought my mom into an office before. I was an intern while in college so I guess it was a little different. My mom was visiting for parent's weekend and my boss got wind of it then she insisted that I bring her in. I can't emphasize how much I hated that. It really sent me back to my childhood days when parents meet your teachers. I would imagine women may be more inclined to like this idea.

My son is in town interviewing for some internship positions. He wouldn't like having his mom brought in, but he's very competitive and in his case it would give him an advantage. At least one firm may be as a result of her contacts (and let's face it, that's how life works). He's smart enough to do what it takes to win. She's a freaking machine! We go to a lot of "events", usually tables of 8-10. I do quite well with the other 6-8 people at the table and she goes out and becomes tight with the other 300 people in the room. Let your parents help you if it's a fit! But it is an odd form of multi-generational networking that may be different than what we are accustomed to. It's also helpful to the employer to see more of the family (and makes me wonder a little bit about some HR issues if it's pushed too far).

GoMuskies
05-15-2014, 07:54 PM
I have always preferred that my employers not even know that I have a family.

xu82
05-15-2014, 08:29 PM
I have always preferred that my employers not even know that I have a family.

I agree with you in general. I've previously managed a few dozen people and if I had too much knowledge of your personal life it was generally a negative thing. Not always, but usually. Making the contact to get the ideal gig, however, is a different deal. Find it any way you can, then prove you deserve it. (That's where we are with my son and internships/job offers.)

XUFan09
05-15-2014, 09:32 PM
I have actually brought my mom into an office before. I was an intern while in college so I guess it was a little different. My mom was visiting for parent's weekend and my boss got wind of it then she insisted that I bring her in. I can't emphasize how much I hated that. It really sent me back to my childhood days when parents meet your teachers. I would imagine women may be more inclined to like this idea.

Yeah, I would view that situation as a little different, as an internship is like a halfway house between childhood and adulthood. And yeah, I think I would hate that.

Both my parents and I work in education, so the situation is a bit different. I wouldn't mind my boss meeting my parents, but that's because they would discuss their personal strategies in the field. When I was working in retail, though, I saw no reason to merge those two worlds.

ammtd34
05-16-2014, 07:57 AM
I have always preferred that my employers not even know that I have a family.

Two months ago, I took off two weeks when my daughter was born. When I came back, everyone was mad that they didn't know my wife was pregnant.

Kahns Krazy
05-16-2014, 08:05 AM
Leveraging contacts and helicopter parenting are not the same thing. I will leverage contacts from anyone I know, including my parents, and vice versa. That doesn't mean they meet my boss.

blobfan
05-20-2014, 12:47 PM
Leveraging contacts and helicopter parenting are not the same thing. I will leverage contacts from anyone I know, including my parents, and vice versa. That doesn't mean they meet my boss.

Or negotiate your next raise.

GoMuskies
06-23-2015, 10:02 AM
For some reason, this topic was on my mind this morning (probably the fact that my seven year-old son is at Greg Marshall's basketball camp this week, has two baseball games at night, and junior golf another day, my 4 year-old son is in tennis camp all week and has a t-ball game as well and my 10 year old daughter has 23 hours of gymnastics a week every week this summer (up from 20 during the school year). It reminded me of just how different things used to be, and not that long ago. I graduated from high school in 1994, and one of my baseball high school teammates was the #1 overall pick in the baseball draft 3 years later (after college). Do you know where he played his summer baseball all the way through the summer after his junior year of high school: Jeffersontown Little League (which I guess is "Senior League" at that point). That will never happen again.

I apparently already told this story a few pages back. Oh well. It's all just nuts to me. I want my kids to have opportunities in sports if they want them and turn out to be talented enough...but I really don't know how to navigate the current youth sports culture. I guess I'm relying on my wife for a lot of the actual navigation, while I just finance it.

JTG
06-23-2015, 10:36 AM
For some reason, this topic was on my mind this morning (probably the fact that my seven year-old son is at Greg Marshall's basketball camp this week, has two baseball games at night, and junior golf another day, my 4 year-old son is in tennis camp all week and has a t-ball game as well and my 10 year old daughter has 23 hours of gymnastics a week every week this summer (up from 20 during the school year). It reminded me of just how different things used to be, and not that long ago. I graduated from high school in 1994, and one of my baseball high school teammates was the #1 overall pick in the baseball draft 3 years later (after college). Do you know where he played his summer baseball all the way through the summer after his junior year of high school: Jeffersontown Little League (which I guess is "Senior League" at that point). That will never happen again.

I apparently already told this story a few pages back. Oh well. It's all just nuts to me. I want my kids to have opportunities in sports if they want them and turn out to be talented enough...but I really don't know how to navigate the current youth sports culture. I guess I'm relying on my wife for a lot of the actual navigation, while I just finance it.

I've said this before in another thread. As a long time youth coach in football and basketball, I know a number of kids who were burned out after freshman year in college, and quit. All were on scholarship, but they were just sick of sports. It's way out of control, and it sound like your kids might be burnout candidates, mostly the gymnast. Let 'em spend more time being kids. They have an entire adult lifetime living with the pressure to excel. Just a thought.

GoMuskies
06-23-2015, 10:40 AM
The gymnast wishes she could do 40 hours a week. Nature of the sport. Go all in at a young age, or you've missed your chance. She loves it and hasn't missed a beat at school. If she burns out, she burns out. There's really no other way to go in gymnastics.

My other two kids are in camps this week but otherwise do less than 5 hours a week in organized sports (1 hour a week for the younger one). They're fine.

casualfan
06-23-2015, 10:57 AM
I've said this before in another thread. As a long time youth coach in football and basketball, I know a number of kids who were burned out after freshman year in college, and quit. All were on scholarship, but they were just sick of sports. It's way out of control, and it sound like your kids might be burnout candidates, mostly the gymnast. Let 'em spend more time being kids. They have an entire adult lifetime living with the pressure to excel. Just a thought.

Couldn't agree more. A huge part of the issue is that sports have started to become year-round deals.

You don't just play basketball during basketball season. You do offseason camps and travel teams and individual instructors and before a kid has physically matured to the point where they have a chance to get noticed and earn a scholarship they are burnt out.

I went to grade school at what was at the time the largest private grade school in the state of Ohio. Chalk full of stud athletes.

There is one kid that I went to grade school with who made any money playing sports and he couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time until he was a sophomore in high school. Went on to play in the league and he didn't even start on the football team as a junior!

On the flip side the best grade school athlete I ever saw was so burnt out from travel teams that by his freshman year of high school he quit all sports.

One other point that is interesting to me is that you're starting to see pro teams take notice, specifically in baseball. The last few years the Reds have been big into drafting college relief pitchers and turning them into starters. I can't remember who it was, but someone on their scouting staff specifically mentioned the limited innings they have on their arm as compared to a college starter as a reason they have went that route so much.

NY44
06-23-2015, 11:01 AM
I thought of this topic today because P. Diddy assaulted a college coach with a kettle bell because he yelled at his kid.

ammtd34
06-23-2015, 11:01 AM
I posted on the first page of the thread. I would add that I'm 30 and 10 years removed from my club soccer team. My teammates on that team remain some of my closest friends to this day. We've been in each others weddings and have been involved in their new family lives. Nearly all of us are still involved in the game in some capacity. There are high school boys coaches, high school girls coaches, a DIII college head coach and a lead assistant at a D1 school. I train high school and college GKs. I don't regret any of the time we spent playing and I doubt any of the other guys do either.

Cheesehead
06-23-2015, 11:58 AM
I have mixed emotions on this one. What I say is from my own personal experience. My son played AAU from 5th grade - Age of 17. We traveled all over the midwest w/ tournaments. Once my son got to HS, he decided to play only baskeball after playing baseball and soccer for years as a youth. It was a decision I didn't agree with. A few years ago, I really thought my son would play at the next level and I guess rationalized the fees, hotels, and food we spent over the years. It's easily in the thousnds of dollars. I am sure my son enjoyed the experience and we have some good memories but due to injuries and politics in HS, his only contact for hoops was D III and he ultimately decided that was not for him, plus there is no actual atheltic scholarships for DIII. So I ask myself if was all worth and I am not sure it was. I don't think kids should specialize and if you are trying to get your kid a scholarhsip, basketball due to the sheer fact only 5 play on the court at one time, is not a good avenue. The stats are about 1% unless your kid is a complete stud.

I am fine w/ keeping kids busy and I like what sports can teach kids but this specilization, year round thing is nuts and the liklihood of a scholarship is not real high.

ammtd34
06-23-2015, 12:17 PM
I have mixed emotions on this one. What I say is from my own personal experience. My son played AAU from 5th grade - Age of 17. We traveled all over the midwest w/ tournaments. Once my son got to HS, he decided to play only baskeball after playing baseball and soccer for years as a youth. It was a decision I didn't agree with. A few years ago, I really thought my son would play at the next level and I guess rationalized the fees, hotels, and food we spent over the years. It's easily in the thousnds of dollars. I am sure my son enjoyed the experience and we have some good memories but due to injuries and politics in HS, his only contact for hoops was D III and he ultimately decided that was not for him, plus there is no actual atheltic scholarships for DIII. So I ask myself if was all worth and I am not sure it was. I don't think kids should specialize and if you are trying to get your kid a scholarhsip, basketball due to the sheer fact only 5 play on the court at one time, is not a good avenue. The stats are about 1% unless your kid is a complete stud.

I am fine w/ keeping kids busy and I like what sports can teach kids but this specilization, year round thing is nuts and the liklihood of a scholarship is not real high.

Only 5 play at a time and 12 or 13 are on a team, but the likelihood of receiving a basketball scholarship is still higher than receiving any sort of money for (men's) soccer. Soccer programs have 25-30 guys in them and a fully funded program is allotted 9.9 scholarships. Obviously, more schools have men's basketball programs than men's basketball programs. In NCAA divison 1 soccer, it is impossible for your starting lineup to be on scholarship.

Cheesehead
06-23-2015, 12:33 PM
According to ncaa.org, for boys, 541,059 play HS basketball and 3.4% wiill play college, soccer: 417.419 5.7% play in college, football: 1,093.234 and 6.5% play college; baseball 482,629 and 6.9% play college

xu82
06-23-2015, 04:26 PM
According to ncaa.org, for boys, 541,059 play HS basketball and 3.4% wiill play college, soccer: 417.419 5.7% play in college, football: 1,093.234 and 6.5% play college; baseball 482,629 and 6.9% play college

Of those playing in college, I wonder how many get a scholarship or some financial assistance and how much. We did sports the whole way through, but only because they wanted to. We didn't even pursue some college opportunites one son had because he was ready to move on with his life and get serious. Wise choice for a teenager. (Florida pre-paid and Bright Futures made it an easier decision for us to swallow.)

MADXSTER
06-23-2015, 05:20 PM
Wow, do I have a lot to say on this topic. My daughter will be playing soccer at Ball St this fall.

As a parent you really have to pay attention and LISTEN to your kids to prevent burn-out. She plays soccer year round but views indoor(winter) as the time to practice moves in games that you normally wouldn't due during outdoor. She views indoor as time to stay in shape and practice moves, then laughs at players who take the game too seriously...She may score 4 or 5 goals and say, It's indoor, it doesn't mean anything.

The indoor session is a pressure free time to play soccer and that's a healthy attitude.

Playing year round is one thing but specializing is another. Specializing is when a coach, team, organization tells kids that they cannot play other sports if they make their team. My younger daughter turned down TFA because they said she wouldn't be able to run HS track. For what it's worth running track can help soccer players.

Back to the Ball St daughter. When she says she doesn't want to play we do not push her. We LISTEN to her. This is the girl who runs 2 miles, does an hour and 45 minute workout at Planet Fitness, and then runs another 2 miles on her off day. On practice days(2 hour practices) she runs two miles and does a 45 minute workout on her own. Teams will try to pick her up to play and travel to Kansas and so forth, as parents you would like her to go but she may want to hang out with her friends because it's someone's birthday. We let her make those decisions. If she doesn't want to go, she doesn't go.

I'm not into specialized sports at all. Her best team experience actually came from playing HS Basketball. The team bonded like no other team she had been on(her words). She played and started on a team that only lost 3 games all year. But it was a sport where she could be competitive but at the same time 'pressure free' because it wasn't her main sport. I truely believe playing basketball helped her in soccer in a number of different ways.

Urban Meyer talked about (guessing here) 40 of his 46 players recently recruited were two sport players in HS.

Remember, it's not about the kids playing in college, it's about giving them the opportunity to play in high school/college if they so desire. Not if you desire, if THEY desire. LISTEN to them, their words and their body language.

I could go on and on but I'll leave it at that.

FWIW I wish that Xavier would have looked at her.

GoMuskies
06-23-2015, 05:27 PM
Nice, my wife was an athlete at Ball State, and my brother went there as well. I'm a fan of ole Testicle Tech.

JTG
06-23-2015, 07:54 PM
Wow, do I have a lot to say on this topic. My daughter will be playing soccer at Ball St this fall.

As a parent you really have to pay attention and LISTEN to your kids to prevent burn-out. She plays soccer year round but views indoor(winter) as the time to practice moves in games that you normally wouldn't due during outdoor. She views indoor as time to stay in shape and practice moves, then laughs at players who take the game too seriously...She may score 4 or 5 goals and say, It's indoor, it doesn't mean anything.

The indoor session is a pressure free time to play soccer and that's a healthy attitude.

Playing year round is one thing but specializing is another. Specializing is when a coach, team, organization tells kids that they cannot play other sports if they make their team. My younger daughter turned down TFA because they said she wouldn't be able to run HS track. For what it's worth running track can help soccer players.

Back to the Ball St daughter. When she says she doesn't want to play we do not push her. We LISTEN to her. This is the girl who runs 2 miles, does an hour and 45 minute workout at Planet Fitness, and then runs another 2 miles on her off day. On practice days(2 hour practices) she runs two miles and does a 45 minute workout on her own. Teams will try to pick her up to play and travel to Kansas and so forth, as parents you would like her to go but she may want to hang out with her friends because it's someone's birthday. We let her make those decisions. If she doesn't want to go, she doesn't go.

I'm not into specialized sports at all. Her best team experience actually came from playing HS Basketball. The team bonded like no other team she had been on(her words). She played and started on a team that only lost 3 games all year. But it was a sport where she could be competitive but at the same time 'pressure free' because it wasn't her main sport. I truely believe playing basketball helped her in soccer in a number of different ways.

Urban Meyer talked about (guessing here) 40 of his 46 players recently recruited were two sport players in HS.

Remember, it's not about the kids playing in college, it's about giving them the opportunity to play in high school/college if they so desire. Not if you desire, if THEY desire. LISTEN to them, their words and their body language.

I could go on and on but I'll leave it at that.

FWIW I wish that Xavier would have looked at her.

Sounds like you are a well adjusted, good parent....something that is fairly rare in youth sports.

ammtd34
06-23-2015, 08:05 PM
According to ncaa.org, for boys, 541,059 play HS basketball and 3.4% wiill play college, soccer: 417.419 5.7% play in college, football: 1,093.234 and 6.5% play college; baseball 482,629 and 6.9% play college

Right. More kids will play soccer in college because there are more than twice as many kids on a soccer team than a basketball team. It's still a fact, though, that soccer is allotted 9.9 scholarships. There is more money available for basketball players.

pickledpigsfeet
06-23-2015, 08:23 PM
You can divide the 9.9 soccer scholarships up though, unless something has very recently changed. Kids can get 1/2 and 1/4 scholarships, depending on the school and coach, so it is conceivable to have 12-15 players getting some kind of money towards school, full or otherwise.

I don't believe that X offered the full 9.9 until fairly recently, as in within the last 10 years or so. Obviously the results are being seen on the field.

D-West & PO-Z
06-23-2015, 10:18 PM
I knew a decent amount if kids who went yo play low D 1 to D3 sports after high school. I'd say 75% quit within 1-2 years. Some it was great because it got them into Ivy League schools. Most ended up transferring to different schools because they went to schools they never would have went to if they weren't playing sports. I never understood that bc most weren't getting any money. I think it's mostly a mistake to make a college decision based on wanting to play a sport when you aren't getting any money and you probably wouldn't have gone to that school otherwise.

ammtd34
06-24-2015, 06:43 AM
You can divide the 9.9 soccer scholarships up though, unless something has very recently changed. Kids can get 1/2 and 1/4 scholarships, depending on the school and coach, so it is conceivable to have 12-15 players getting some kind of money towards school, full or otherwise.

I don't believe that X offered the full 9.9 until fairly recently, as in within the last 10 years or so. Obviously the results are being seen on the field.

You're right on all of this. Half scholarships, especially for freshmen and sophomores, are pretty tough to come by. A kid in my club turned down a PSV contract to stay in the US and go to school. He got half a scholarship to play at Ohio State.

sirthought
07-02-2015, 05:48 AM
Here's another interesting voice in this debate.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/always-skip-kids-baseball-games/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=pbsofficial&utm_campaign=newshour

Xtemporaneous
07-02-2015, 07:23 AM
Wow this is such an educational thread! Thanks all for posting your feelings. I have a 9yo boy who just started select soccer. He breathes the sport and my wife was animate about keeping him from playing. I told her "who are we to deny him something that he loves to do so much?" She finally submitted but stated as soon as he doesn't want to do it then he's done to which I totally agree. He comes by it naturally as he just owned kids in his SAY league. So he's now on the Cincy West elite team but they understand the need to do other activities as a kid which I like. So any advice for a new "soccer dad" and anyone have experience with Cincinnati West? Thanks in advance!

ammtd34
07-02-2015, 07:30 AM
Wow this is such an educational thread! Thanks all for posting your feelings. I have a 9yo boy who just started select soccer. He breathes the sport and my wife was animate about keeping him from playing. I told her "who are we to deny him something that he loves to do so much?" She finally submitted but stated as soon as he doesn't want to do it then he's done to which I totally agree. He comes by it naturally as he just owned kids in his SAY league. So he's now on the Cincy West elite team but they understand the need to do other activities as a kid which I like. So any advice for a new "soccer dad" and anyone have experience with Cincinnati West? Thanks in advance!

My dad's advice would be: Make sure you stay in a hotel with a bar.

Enjoy it.

GoMuskies
07-02-2015, 08:01 AM
Here's another interesting voice in this debate.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/always-skip-kids-baseball-games/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=pbsofficial&utm_campaign=newshour
I'm dumber for having watched that.

xu82
07-02-2015, 09:23 AM
My dad's advice would be: Make sure you stay in a hotel with a bar.

Enjoy it.

These are words of wisdom and experience!

People complain about the travel and expense, but we had some great times... not just at the games, but at the hotels with all the kids in the pool and stacks of pizzas on the table. It was a blast, but we also had a great group of parents.

GoMuskies
07-02-2015, 09:26 AM
People complain about the travel and expense, but we had some great times

Yeah, so far the only long-distance trips I've had to make for gymnastics meets have been to Orlando and Las Vegas. Somehow we managed to have a good time on those trips. :)

Now I might be in the complaining crowd if I had to shell out a bunch of money and waste three days of my life going to Fargo, ND or Columbus, OH.

xu82
07-02-2015, 10:16 AM
Yeah, so far the only long-distance trips I've had to make for gymnastics meets have been to Orlando and Las Vegas. Somehow we managed to have a good time on those trips. :)


Geez, you must be pretty serious about gymnastics if you managed to have fun in those places!

XUFan09
07-02-2015, 10:31 AM
Yeah, so far the only long-distance trips I've had to make for gymnastics meets have been to Orlando and Las Vegas. Somehow we managed to have a good time on those trips. :)

Now I might be in the complaining crowd if I had to shell out a bunch of money and waste three days of my life going to Fargo, ND or Columbus, OH.
There was a kids' baseball tournament in Winchester, VA, while we were staying at the same hotel. Winchester is a cool small town with lots to do on the downtown pedestrian mall alone, so it sounded like a good place for the families too. Where did I see them going, though? Basic chains on the outskirts of town that you can find anywhere in America. God, I would hate to spend the weekend with boring parents like that. In Las Vegas, they'd probably just go to Applebee's for dinner.

GoMuskies
07-02-2015, 11:01 AM
I would hate to spend the weekend with boring parents like that. In Las Vegas, they'd probably just go to Applebee's for dinner.

Our meet was at some offstrip place called South Point. Amazingly, I was the only parent who stayed on the Strip. I'm not sure what's wrong with these people, but my dad, my daughter and I had a great time! We walked the Strip, we saw the Bellagio fountain, we went downtown, we ziplined over Fremont Street, we took the monorail, we rode the High Roller, we went to a show, and we went to several nice, non-chain restaurants.

XUFan09
07-02-2015, 11:25 AM
Our meet was at some offstrip place called South Point. Amazingly, I was the only parent who stayed on the Strip. I'm not sure what's wrong with these people, but my dad, my daughter and I had a great time! We walked the Strip, we saw the Bellagio fountain, we went downtown, we ziplined over Fremont Street, we took the monorail, we rode the High Roller, we went to a show, and we went to several nice, non-chain restaurants.

Wow, what is wrong with those people? You're in Vegas, for God's sake! When I have kids, my big worry with these kinds of events is being surrounded by a bunch of boring parents and crazy sports parents.

LA Muskie
07-02-2015, 11:59 AM
These are words of wisdom and experience!

People complain about the travel and expense, but we had some great times... not just at the games, but at the hotels with all the kids in the pool and stacks of pizzas on the table. It was a blast, but we also had a great group of parents.

Absolutely. Me too. Even the tournaments in Williamsville North and Ft. Niagara. (Shout out to your homeland, '82, as I head out to Olcott Beach with the wife, kids, and parents...)

xu82
07-02-2015, 12:47 PM
Absolutely. Me too. Even the tournaments in Williamsville North and Ft. Niagara. (Shout out to your homeland, '82, as I head out to Olcott Beach with the wife, kids, and parents...)

It's a great place to be... in the summer! Damn, now you've got me thinking Bocce Pizza right across from Williamsvile North!!! That's a mandatory stop every time I go back. Enjoy the beach.

Bocce does overnight half baked... hmmm... Ohhh... wings and beer at Duffs.... beef on weck...These are things I miss more than winter....

GoMuskies
06-30-2016, 11:08 PM
Is it wrong that this website devoted to a local 10U baseball team (and documenting its "exploits" going back several years) makes me kind of ill?

https://316giantsbaseball.com/

Boro Muskie
07-01-2016, 06:37 AM
Is it wrong that this website devoted to a local 10U baseball team (and documenting its "exploits" going back several years) makes me kind of ill?

https://316giantsbaseball.com/

Nope, bit over the top. Just for shits and grins I clicked on the coaches tab - 5 coaches for an under 10 baseball team (with 12 players). Ricky Bobby would be proud.

bleedXblue
07-01-2016, 07:16 AM
Parents are idiots. If they spent half the time making sure their kids did well in school and were preparing them for life after high school or college, how different would things be? 99% of all kids are done with sports after high school.

xu82
07-01-2016, 09:01 AM
Nope, bit over the top. Just for shits and grins I clicked on the coaches tab - 5 coaches for an under 10 baseball team (with 12 players). Ricky Bobby would be proud.

My son's AAU hoops team learned that 4 coaches wasn't enough - they kept getting ejected for poor behavior and would miss the rest of the tournament. Eventually you run out of coaches..... Yes, we wish we could have a do-over on that group of fools.

Muskie in dayton
07-02-2016, 07:34 AM
My favorite are those who consider the thousands (tens of thousands?) of $ spent each year to be an investment so little Johnny could get a college scholarship. If they played him in a a rec league and saved/invested that money they could give Johnny a scholarship themselves, without ruining their lives for a decade or so, and without burning out Johnny.

nuts4xu
07-02-2016, 08:42 AM
Is it wrong that this website devoted to a local 10U baseball team (and documenting its "exploits" going back several years) makes me kind of ill?

https://316giantsbaseball.com/

My son plays on a "select" baseball team (9u this season) and he loved it. It was a team made up of s bunch of kids from his neighborhood and school. The coaches were more focused on winning for my taste, and I would've liked to see a better emphasis on development. But overall, it was a good experience.

The variance in talent is vast, even in "select leagues". Some kids have played together for years, are coached by former college and pro ball players, and are more skilled than many rec leagues 3 or 4 years older. Other teams, are former knothole and rec league teams who decided to pay the $400 fee to join the league. I've seen a lot of "daddy ball" this season with various teams, and I am not a fan of those coaching staffs.

A lot of pressure and life lessons have been learned, but with my son, if he stops having fun....it's time to find something new. But st 9 or 10 years old, there is no need to scream at a kid for missing a ground ball.

GoMuskies
07-05-2017, 09:35 AM
These guys have solved to overspending problem for parents! :sick:

http://www.kansas.com/news/nation-world/national/article159159054.html

Muskie
07-05-2017, 09:43 AM
These guys have solved to overspending problem for parents! :sick:

http://www.kansas.com/news/nation-world/national/article159159054.html

Unbelievable.

nuts4xu
07-05-2017, 11:15 AM
Another baseball season is over, now tryout season starts. When I was a kid, I played for my buddies' dad, or whomever my friends played for. Now, my son has to tryout for his baseball teams. We've been on 3 teams in 3 years, and next year will be team #4. My son had a great season, and could play for most any team in his age group. His coaching staff from this season, which was a new team assembled just a year ago, informs us they are changing clubs and all of our kids will need to try out. We are also told they want to be more competitive and are looking for an even bigger time commitment.

My son isn't interested in playing 60 games per year, with tons of out of town tournaments. His statement to his mom and I was that he "just wants to play baseball with his friends and have fun". We found a club that has coaches without kids on the team, and we are working to build a team around a group of my sons friends. This new club is sponsored by Nike and Easton, and priced at the going rate (roughly $800 per season).

It sucks what these kids' sports have become, but you have to do what's right for your kid. Hopefully this is the team my boy stays with for a while...but I've said the same thing each of the past 3 summers.

casualfan
07-05-2017, 11:46 AM
Another baseball season is over, now tryout season starts. When I was a kid, I played for my buddies' dad, or whomever my friends played for. Now, my son has to tryout for his baseball teams. We've been on 3 teams in 3 years, and next year will be team #4. My son had a great season, and could play for most any team in his age group. His coaching staff from this season, which was a new team assembled just a year ago, informs us they are changing clubs and all of our kids will need to try out. We are also told they want to be more competitive and are looking for an even bigger time commitment.

My son isn't interested in playing 60 games per year, with tons of out of town tournaments. His statement to his mom and I was that he "just wants to play baseball with his friends and have fun". We found a club that has coaches without kids on the team, and we are working to build a team around a group of my sons friends. This new club is sponsored by Nike and Easton, and priced at the going rate (roughly $800 per season).

It sucks what these kids' sports have become, but you have to do what's right for your kid. Hopefully this isn't the team my boy stays with for a while...but I've said the same thing each of the past 3 summers.

I don't have a kid so forgive my ignorance, but if the kid just wants to have fun and play with his friends what is wrong with signing him up for the local rec league?

Or is that not an option anymore?

drudy23
07-05-2017, 12:13 PM
Step 1: Evaluate the wants, needs, and a realistic assessment of the ability of your kid. Some want to just have fun, some love the competition aspect.
Step 2: Base your select/non-select decision on step 1
Step 3: Hold out for a good coach that cares about player development more than wins


If he wants to have fun with his friends, invite them over and play home run derby in the backyard. That's fun. You're footing the bill, it's not 100% up to the kid. You won't ruin his life if you refuse to pay that kind of money for "fun".

There's no reason to pay $800 for a kid to "just have fun with his friends".

In my experience, THE most important aspect of having a kid involved in select/AAU sports is the coach's ability, desire and patience to TEACH SKILLS. If practice is nothing but batting cages and games, your child won't get better.

casualfan
07-05-2017, 12:39 PM
I read a really interesting article on development of youth athletes in the States.

The article focused on Christian Pulisic's development and how his parents kept him away from the uber select hyper-specialized sports environment many kids find themselves in.

It wasn't something they set out to do with his soccer development specifically in mind, they just wanted him to be a normal kid that played as many different sports as he wanted to in low pressure environments.

What the article goes on to hypothesize though is that by keeping him off some of those uber select teams and within a less talented pool of players it forced Christian to develop more of his skills in ways he wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

The theory being that if you're surrounded by all this talent it isn't as imperative that you maximize your own to achieve success.

It's obviously anecdotal but I thought it was really interesting and made a lot of sense.

drudy23
07-05-2017, 01:54 PM
I read a really interesting article on development of youth athletes in the States.

The article focused on Christian Pulisic's development and how his parents kept him away from the uber select hyper-specialized sports environment many kids find themselves in.

It wasn't something they set out to do with his soccer development specifically in mind, they just wanted him to be a normal kid that played as many different sports as he wanted to in low pressure environments.

What the article goes on to hypothesize though is that by keeping him off some of those uber select teams and within a less talented pool of players it forced Christian to develop more of his skills in ways he wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

The theory being that if you're surrounded by all this talent it isn't as imperative that you maximize your own to achieve success.

It's obviously anecdotal but I thought it was really interesting and made a lot of sense.

I tend to agree...the problem with this is the social pressure placed on the parents by the coaches that say "your kid won't play in high school unless he plays select sports", and the parents all eat it up.

casualfan
07-05-2017, 02:09 PM
I tend to agree...the problem with this is the social pressure placed on the parents by the coaches that say "your kid won't play in high school unless he plays select sports", and the parents all eat it up.

At some point as an adult you have to be smart enough to not get taken advantage of.

I feel bad for the kids.

The adults should know better.

bjf123
07-05-2017, 02:26 PM
Does knothole baseball even still exist? Growing up, that was a lot of fun. No high pressure and ice cream after the game!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

casualfan
07-05-2017, 02:30 PM
Does knothole baseball even still exist? Growing up, that was a lot of fun. No high pressure and ice cream after the game!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's funny you bring that up. One of the things they bring up in the article I mentioned about Pulisic's development is the difference between critique parents (those who tell their kid what they did wrong after the game) and ice cream parents (those who take the kid for ice cream).

By the way, i went back and found the article for those interested:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2713937-the-christian-pulisic-blueprint

KsMuskie
07-05-2017, 02:38 PM
Sadly its getting extremely difficult to find Rec League baseball teams available for older players (13+). Before we moved to KS, I was unsuccessful in getting my son on a rec team in the Kings/Little Miami area. Its predominantly select teams....the parents are drinking the kool-aid.

GoMuskies
07-05-2017, 02:44 PM
If he was a little younger, he could join our 9U team in Wichita. We're a rec level team that just happens to play in a (somewhat) competitive league!

nuts4xu
07-05-2017, 02:57 PM
I don't have a kid so forgive my ignorance, but if the kid just wants to have fun and play with his friends what is wrong with signing him up for the local rec league?

Or is that not an option anymore?

They have rec leagues and knothole, which are a good fit for some. When I was a kid, we played knothole baseball or no baseball, there wasn't a choice. All the best ball players played in the same league. Now, the better athletes and players gravitate to these select leagues. It reminds me of youth soccer, or AAU basketball. Neighborhoods have teams which are great for a lot of kids, but the better the player, the more likely they play for these club teams.

casualfan
07-05-2017, 03:08 PM
They have rec leagues and knothole, which are a good fit for some. When I was a kid, we played knothole baseball or no baseball, there wasn't a choice. All the best ball players played in the same league. Now, the better athletes and players gravitate to these select leagues. It reminds me of youth soccer, or AAU basketball. Neighborhoods have teams which are great for a lot of kids, but the better the player, the more likely they play for these club teams.

It sounds like you're saying you don't see those leagues as a fit for your son?

xu82
07-05-2017, 03:56 PM
I don't have a kid so forgive my ignorance, but if the kid just wants to have fun and play with his friends what is wrong with signing him up for the local rec league?

Or is that not an option anymore?

It's certainly an option and for most kids it's the right option. Some kids want to work to be their best, and some kids make snow angels on the basketball court during a game. Most kids are in the middle. If you aspire to play in high school or beyond, you're probably looking at a traveling team. In soccer and basketball, my kids high school teams competed against other high schools whose best players were usually on our travel teams. Many went on to play in college. It was like a reunion every game with the entire families, because those traveling teams spend a ton of time together.

Having said all that, nothing at all wrong with rec leagues. The travel is tome consuming and expensive. Could you argue we took it a bit too far? Absolutely! But I wouldn't change a thing. In fact, those were great times and the best part was often around the hotel pool with stacks of pizzas on tournament weekends where the kids were just being kids.

nuts4xu
07-06-2017, 04:03 PM
It sounds like you're saying you don't see those leagues as a fit for your son?

Correct. I am not complaining about the money, and the sport is teaching my son all the lessons I had hoped for. My son isn't the next Pete Rose, and may decide to quit at anytime....and that is completely fine with his mom and I. The issue with these leagues is not all teams evaluate talent equally, so not all clubs are providing the same return on the investment. I also see teams put together around the coaches' sons, regardless of how talented that kid may be. I just think it's crazy how serious adults can make this game played by kids. Everyone has to do what they feel is best for their kid, but a lot of times the parents do what is best for a kids' "career" or scholarship hopes or what is best for themselves. These shouldn't be a factor for coaches with 10/11 year olds...but it is what it is.

casualfan
07-06-2017, 04:23 PM
Correct. I am not complaining about the money, and the sport is teaching my son all the lessons I had hoped for.

So if he's not having fun in the league he's in but you won't put him in a for fun league what exactly is your complaint?

nuts4xu
07-06-2017, 04:34 PM
I understand. He's just not having any fun.

Kind of. He has fun with his friends, has fun playing the game, and enjoys practicing with teammates (and on his own). But the off the field stuff can suck the fun out of the game.

bobbiemcgee
07-06-2017, 08:46 PM
Parents don't really get it with youth sports. Has to be the kid's idea. You want your kid to love baseball? Take him to lots of Reds games when he's 3-5 yrs. old. Take him to some Little League games just for "something to do". Maybe he'll want to toss a ball around then. "Hey Dad, let's have a catch". Maybe he starts to love baseball. His Idea. If they are going to stick with it, has to be their idea to want to get better. Don't be one of those parents that drops off their kid on the first day of T-Ball and expect miracles. Gotta work at it. Sorry Pop, this means you! Nights and Weekends.

And please, please, please, don't let you kid quit a sport midseason. They will quit everything. Explain very, very carefully that they are making a big COMMITTMENT, maybe their first one ever. If they sign up, they will stick it out to the end even if they absolutely despise it. Every Practice. Every Game.

drudy23
07-07-2017, 07:32 AM
"Hey Dad, let's have a catch".

Worst line in the history of movies "Wanna have a catch"...although the rest of the movie was great.

Wanna have a catch? No one ever says that.

"Hey Dad, let's toss"

nuts4xu
07-07-2017, 10:08 AM
So if he's not having fun in the league he's in but you won't put him in a for fun league what exactly is your complaint?

The off the field stuff sucks the fun out of the game. He is in the right league for his skill level, but the agendas for some of the coaches at this level are out of whack.

JTG
07-07-2017, 05:18 PM
I coached youth league baseball, football, and basketball. The latter 2 for 20 years, and baseball for 5. Baseball parents are far and away the worst youth league parents. Not sure why, because basketball on its surface seems simpler than the other 2. Football parents were the best, followed by basketball. It must be the heat of summer, but there are lots of nut job parents in little league. To avoid burnout, it all should be played for fun, at least through 6th grade.