All that is wrong with NCAA sports....

[mohr5150]

...is being represented in the championship game of the NCAA tournament. In one corner, we have the poster child for the teams who don't make their kids go to class, who don't graduate their players, the one thing they should do as a supposed academic institution in the fraudulent University of Connecticut. In the other corner, you have the most fraudulent of all universities, the school who flips their nose at the idea of using an institution of higher learning to...gasp...educate their student athletes by allowing the slimiest of all slime in the history of college sports use their institution as a developmental league for the NBA in Kentucky, which I cannot bring myself to call a university. What an unbelievably sad day for the tens of thousands of student athletes who have taken their roles as student athletes seriously. Evil has prevailed today.

[bjf123]

Mega public reps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xubrew]

I think UConn is far less a violator than Kentucky. I don't even think you can compare the two.

They fell short of the APR, but that was largely due to transfers and players leaving for the pros. They actually could have made it had they prevented players from transferring who wanted to transfer, but that didn't have the necessary 2.6 GPA to avoid a loss of an APR point. I think UConn letting them leave anyway is admirable.

So, last year, the players on the team could not play in the last Big East Tournament, or the NCAA Tournament, because of what other players who were there before but were no longer on the team did. That's the NCAA for you. Punishing current players because of what former players/coaches did (or in this case, didn't do). This year, the ones that stayed and were punished a year ago are now in the title game, and their projected APR is one of the better ones in the nation. That's a GREAT story!! I hope they win it all.

I'm certain that I'm drunk, but I'm equally certain that I am right. This year's UConn team is not what's wrong with college sports. What's wrong is that they were punished a year ago for what other people did. They are what's RIGHT about NCAA sports.

MOHR, I don't mean this to be confrontational. If anything, I just want to say what I think and maybe clear things up. There is a definite hero, and a definite bad guy on Monday.

[paulxu]

Sometimes I just don't get all this concern about the draft and education. I suspect it is often more about us wanting a young man (Crawford or Semaj) to stay and help our team as opposed to real concern about the individual's future.

We don't have that concern about someone who opts for the military out of high school, and risks far more. We aren't going on about the 40 (!) round MLB draft where many kids never set foot in college and head right to the minors. Yet we have decided the basketball rules are somehow worth moralizing over.

The truth appears to be that the NCAA is the NBA's minor league (just like football). The leagues have set rules, good or bad, about when a kid can go in the drafts. Whatever they are, they are later than baseball. Is it a sham of sorts? Of course, but all three sides (pros, schools and kids) have to play along.

Mack once said when asked how many kids on the team thought they can make it to the pros, "all of them."
But the NBA draft is the most selective of all. 4500 kids play division 1 ball. The draft is 60 slots. 15 of them are foreign players.
So 45 kids...1 in a 100...actually will make it.

Anyone can be influenced incorrectly. So maybe a kid, to his eventual detriment, will get bad advice from those who grade their chance in the draft. But at that age we accept much larger consequential judgements from other young men. I think our judgement of the system and individuals is as much about wanting our kids to stay, as it is some morality with college sports.

[XUGRAD80]

I believe that the announcers said that several of the UConn players are set to graduate in three weeks, including the center.

But I tend to agree with most of the comments made so far in this thread. However, I don't necessarily blame the cosch's, players, or schools here alone....I blame the athletic directors and administrations that agreed to the rules as they are. The schools are just playing by a set of rules that many times make a mockery of the term STUDENT-athlete.

[Juice]

I believe that the announcers said that several of the UConn players are set to graduate in three weeks, including the center.

But I tend to agree with most of the comments made so far in this thread. However, I don't necessarily blame the cosch's, players, or schools here alone....I blame the athletic directors and administrations that agreed to the rules as they are. The schools are just playing by a set of rules that many times make a mockery about of the term STUDENT-athlete.

It shouldn't be an issue. The NBA forces them to go to school. I don't blame guys for leaving after one year if that is what is required.

[XUGRAD80]

It shouldn't be an issue. The NBA forces them to go to school. I don't blame guys for leaving after one year if that is what is required.

I agree.....the one and done compromise is possibly the worst of all decisions the NBA could have made. I see no reason to force a kid that has NBA skills to spend a year in school just spinning his wheels and not really even trying to be a serious student.

[XfansinKy]

...is being represented in the championship game of the NCAA tournament. In one corner, we have the poster child for the teams who don't make their kids go to class, who don't graduate their players, the one thing they should do as a supposed academic institution in the fraudulent University of Connecticut. In the other corner, you have the most fraudulent of all universities, the school who flips their nose at the idea of using an institution of higher learning to...gasp...educate their student athletes by allowing the slimiest of all slime in the history of college sports use their institution as a developmental league for the NBA in Kentucky, which I cannot bring myself to call a university. What an unbelievably sad day for the tens of thousands of student athletes who have taken their roles as student athletes seriously. Evil has prevailed today.Those kids at UK are were living with their parents this time last year. When I was visiting at UK hospital a bunch of UK players were visiting the children. (no cameras either). Is the system messed up? Probably. Evil? Hardly. I would rather be watching X and rubbing it in on my UK friends. Even so, I don't want to be the guy who's team didn't get there so I complain. When X gets there we can say what's right with college basketball is being represented even though Semaj took off after his sophomore year.

[STL_XUfan]

I agree.....the one and done compromise is possibly the worst of all decisions the NBA could have made. I see no reason to force a kid that has NBA skills to spend a year in school just spinning his wheels and not really even trying to be a serious student.

The answer is of course money. You take risks on players coming out of high school because they appear to have the classic “5 tool” potential. However, the only competition GM’s have seen them against is subpar high school talent, and it would be almost impossible to accurately judge them against that competition (I had a number of Cleveland friends in my freshman year dorm that had stories of having to guard LeBron).

So what are the NBA and NFL to do? They could invest large amounts of money into a minor league system with the goal of improving young players to get them ready for the pros. Or they could force the kids into the NCAA by instituting a rule that says they can’t enter the draft until X number of years out of college and let their development be paid for by a 3rd party. NBA and NFL GM’s now get to see how these players improve without having to waste money on taking shots in the dark. It is all about making sure their GM’s don’t waste early round draft picks on unknown potential.

Better yet, the NBA and NFL can now privately lobby that it is ridiculous that these players don’t get paid while in college. The NBA and NFL clearly want the NCAA to foot the bill for their minor league system including paying the players a salary. (Don’t get me wrong, the NCAA obviously benefits from these players also, but it isn’t like they are given a vote on what age players can enter the draft).

This brings me to my biggest pet peeve (and where I derail this thread), I do not understand how members of the media can rail against the NCAA for not paying the players and at the same time encourage the NBA to require players to stay 2 years in college (Jay Bilas and Michael Wilbon being the first 2 that come to mind).

<Rant>I keep hearing how these players should be paid because they have a market value. If this is true, why doesn’t the NFL have a minor league system? If there is large dollars to be made on these kids once you strip the name on the front of the jersey, why hasn’t it been created? Why should the NCAA be forced to warehouse kids that have no desire to be on a college campus because the NFL and NBA don’t want to invest in their development? Why should the NCAA be forced to compensate these kids when the NBA and NFL have made the determination that they have no economic use (and are an economic liability) while they are college age? And my final question is why is the NCAA the villain in this story and not the NBA and NFL?

I am all for making sure college players are not living in poverty while attending school, but I just can’t wrap my head around someone telling me that these kids are losing money by being in the Ncaa AND they should be forced to stay there longer. </rant>

[mohr5150]

A joke of a system has been set up between the NBA and NCAA officials to make a mockery out of higher education. It has nothing to do with me being upset over whether X is in the championship game or not. What these two institutions have set up is a minor league system of players who go to certain schools who have leaderships who don't give a damn about education but instead are focused on making craploads of money. I don't blame the kids. A person, no matter how old, is going to get away with whatever his or her superior allows them to get away with. In the situation of these two schools playing, with Kentucky being much more egregious than Connecticut, has absolutely no care for the education of their student athletes. Visiting sick kids at a hospital, while being a nice gesture, doesn't have anything to do with the responsibility of a university to make sure their facilities aren't being used as a minor league for professional sports. It's supposed to be a school. There's a reason why the all-sports school here in Cincinnati didn't last long, and that's really what they have set up, to an extent, at several of these supposed universities. If the kid wants to play pro, I believe he should be allowed to go right out of high school. I have no problem with that. But to use an institution of higher learning as a playground for a year before you move on, doing absolutely nothing in the classroom while you are there, makes a joke out of our educational system. Baseball has the right system. Leave after high school or stay in college for at least three years.

[Juice]

A joke of a system has been set up between the NBA and NCAA officials to make a mockery out of higher education. It has nothing to do with me being upset over whether X is in the championship game or not. What these two institutions have set up is a minor league system of players who go to certain schools who have leaderships who don't give a damn about education but instead are focused on making craploads of money. I don't blame the kids. A person, no matter how old, is going to get away with whatever his or her superior allows them to get away with. In the situation of these two schools playing, with Kentucky being much more egregious than Connecticut, has absolutely no care for the education of their student athletes. Visiting sick kids at a hospital, while being a nice gesture, doesn't have anything to do with the responsibility of a university to make sure their facilities aren't being used as a minor league for professional sports. It's supposed to be a school. There's a reason why the all-sports school here in Cincinnati didn't last long, and that's really what they have set up, to an extent, at several of these supposed universities. If the kid wants to play pro, I believe he should be allowed to go right out of high school. I have no problem with that. But to use an institution of higher learning as a playground for a year before you move on, doing absolutely nothing in the classroom while you are there, makes a joke out of our educational system. Baseball has the right system. Leave after high school or stay in college for at least three years.

How do you know what a player from UK does in the classroom compared to one at XU? I think it's pretty safe to say that every school cuts breaks for its big time student athletes.

[Thor in 204]

Why not start a new major, something like " preparation for career as a professional athlete"? Like a physical education degree program, with some basic business and communication courses thrown in. Job training.

A broadly developmental education with a healthy foundation of liberal arts and sciences is something that seems to be more and more undervalued in this country in favor of more specific job training education. While I also have long admired the idea of student athlete that has been around for many decades, and I agree that the NBA and NFL take advantage of colleges as has been noted in posts above, I can see that professional sports is a potential career for the very top athletes coming out of high school, and that pre-professional training toward such a career could be within the province of a university.

[TUclutch]

How do you know what a player from UK does in the classroom compared to one at XU? I think it's pretty safe to say that every school cuts breaks for its big time student athletes.

Idk about every UK student athlete, but John Wall was in class up until the point he entered the draft and he had a pretty high GPA from what I've heard. But for every John Wall you have a Demarcus Cousins. The point here is, good or bad, sports is becoming even more of a business even at the college level. I have my opinions, but to sum them up, the point at the college level is to win.

[TUclutch]

Why not start a new major, something like " preparation for career as a professional athlete"? Like a physical education degree program, with some basic business and communication courses thrown in. Job training.

A broadly developmental education with a healthy foundation of liberal arts and sciences is something that seems to be more and more undervalued in this country in favor of more specific job training education. While I also have long admired the idea of student athlete that has been around for many decades, and I agree that the NBA and NFL take advantage of colleges as has been noted in posts above, I can see that professional sports is a potential career for the very top athletes coming out of high school, and that pre-professional training toward such a career could be within the province of a university.

Forget who and where(I'll look) but there was a pretty big article on wondering why student athletes couldn't major in their sport. Why can dancers or musicians major in their "sport" but athletes can't. Obviously theyd get some credit for actually being on the team but theyd could give them coaching history or tactics, communications classes, etc. I'll look for the article. It was really good.

[mohr5150]

That scumbag at Kentucky allowed a player to stay in his program that he knew had another person take his ACT for him when he was at Memphis. He has worked at two schools as head coach prior to his present job, and both schools were charged with major violations right before he left. I'm certain he doesn't give a shit about whether his players go to class. He has no business being the head of anything that has to do with education. Go coach pro like the scumbag at Seattle did when he left Southern Cal after screwing that place. Oh yeah, he couldn't succeed at the pro level.

[muskienick]

That scumbag at Kentucky allowed a player to stay in his program that he knew had another person take his ACT for him when he was at Memphis. He has worked at two schools as head coach prior to his present job, and both schools were charged with major violations right before he left. I'm certain he doesn't give a shit about whether his players go to class. He has no business being the head of anything that has to do with education. Go coach pro like the scumbag at Seattle did when he left Southern Cal after screwing that place. Oh yeah, he couldn't succeed at the pro level.

Surely you jest! Didn't his Seahawks just win the Super Bowl? Why wouldn't Calamari use him as an example why he shouldn't go pro?

[PM Thor]

Nerlens Noel is the perfect example why the 1 and dones, forced by the NBA rule, is absolutely ridiculous. Kid blows out his knee his freshman year and still declares for the draft? And goes 6th?! Everyone in his right mind knew he was going to be a one year player, but it's as if Calipari specializes in sweeping these type players up, fully aware that no matter what, they are going to be leaving come Hell or high water.

I have a fundamental issue with recruiting how Kentucky does it. As one fan friend said "I don't pay to watch him study". Yep. That's it in a nutshell.

[Juice]

Why not start a new major, something like " preparation for career as a professional athlete"? Like a physical education degree program, with some basic business and communication courses thrown in. Job training.

A broadly developmental education with a healthy foundation of liberal arts and sciences is something that seems to be more and more undervalued in this country in favor of more specific job training education. While I also have long admired the idea of student athlete that has been around for many decades, and I agree that the NBA and NFL take advantage of colleges as has been noted in posts above, I can see that professional sports is a potential career for the very top athletes coming out of high school, and that pre-professional training toward such a career could be within the province of a university.

Because everyone tells them that they are getting "paid" with an education. Then this idea is brought up, which is pretty much a dumb downed version of an education. So is that education that we are paying these college guys with still have the same value as before?

The solution is obvious; either pay them or let them turn pro.

[coasterville95]

I may be mistaken but wasn't it a Kentucky booster who was complaining that the Kentucky players are required to spend too much time in their studies?

As for XU - don't forget we have Sr. Rose Ann Flemming. As long as she is at Xavier, you can rest assured the players will be required to fulfill the student part of Student Athlete.


Not saying that a UK may have a player that honestly does want to take full advantage of a college education, just like there may be a Xavier player somewhere that tries to skirt by with as little education as possible.

[XUFan09]

It was a redneck UK fan that called in to a talk show. And there's definitely a subset of Xavier fans that implicitly agrees but would never be so open about it. I don't think anyone with actual clout expressed something to that effect at UK.

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[Juice]

It was a redneck UK fan that called in to a talk show. And there's definitely a subset of Xavier fans that implicitly agrees but would never be so open about it. I don't think anyone with actual clout expressed something to that effect at UK.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

The year before, that same caller, somehow equated that it was Obama's fault that UK ended up in the NIT.

[bjf123]

As for XU - don't forget we have Sr. Rose Ann Flemming. As long as she is at Xavier, you can rest assured the players will be required to fulfill the student part of Student Athlete.

Didn't Sr. Rose take on a new role a few years ago, and is no longer the academic advisor to the athletes?



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[XUFan09]

The year before, that same caller, somehow equated that it was Obama's fault that UK ended up in the NIT.

Oh I didn't hear that one, but I'm not surprised. Chester is a regular caller that they love using for laughs. My favorite line of his about UK academics was that maybe the academically talented students could "read really fast."

[Juice]

Oh I didn't hear that one, but I'm not surprised. Chester is a regular caller that they love using for laughs. My favorite line of his about UK academics was that maybe the academically talented students could "read really fast."

Here's the clip http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V5BE4Pd941Y

[bobbiemcgee]

Sometimes I just don't get all this concern about the draft and education. I suspect it is often more about us wanting a young man (Crawford or Semaj) to stay and help our team as opposed to real concern about the individual's future.

We don't have that concern about someone who opts for the military out of high school, and risks far more. We aren't going on about the 40 (!) round MLB draft where many kids never set foot in college and head right to the minors. Yet we have decided the basketball rules are somehow worth moralizing over.

The truth appears to be that the NCAA is the NBA's minor league (just like football). The leagues have set rules, good or bad, about when a kid can go in the drafts. Whatever they are, they are later than baseball. Is it a sham of sorts? Of course, but all three sides (pros, schools and kids) have to play along.

Mack once said when asked how many kids on the team thought they can make it to the pros, "all of them."
But the NBA draft is the most selective of all. 4500 kids play division 1 ball. The draft is 60 slots. 15 of them are foreign players.
So 45 kids...1 in a 100...actually will make it.

Anyone can be influenced incorrectly. So maybe a kid, to his eventual detriment, will get bad advice from those who grade their chance in the draft. But at that age we accept much larger consequential judgements from other young men. I think our judgement of the system and individuals is as much about wanting our kids to stay, as it is some morality with college sports.

The NBA 19 yr. old rule needs to go. It doesn't work. Only 20 got guaranteed contracts last year out of 46. If you declare for the draft, your college career is over. No going back. Stupid. Euro League? Maybe.

Convert the whole NCAA system to the one in place for Baseball. Let the Pro's decide who they want to give their money to out of HS. If you get drafted, fine, SIGN or DON'T SIGN and go to college for 3 yrs. A lot of Pro Baseball contracts get signed the week before school starts. Doesn't screw around with the kid's eligibility. Let the Pro marketplace decide if you're good enough instead of greedy agents and relatives who don't have to live with the results of the NBA draft.

[coasterville95]

That's what's bad, so many players listen to smooth talking agents telling them stories of multi million dollar paychecks waiting right around the corner. Then if it doesn't pan out - they are acrewed, either go back to school on their own (much thinner) dime to progress toward plan B while watching your former teammates play without you - or - head to Europe. That can't be cheap either.


If only they could come back to their college team if the draft didn't work out for them. Then again if you could come back, every draft would be full if players testing the waters. That final decision must help limit the pool somewhat to serious contenders.

[bobbiemcgee]

If only they could come back to their college team if the draft didn't work out for them. Then again if you could come back, every draft would be full if players testing the waters. That final decision must help limit the pool somewhat to serious contenders.

Well that's the beauty of the baseball system. You don't have to declare and lose your eligibility. The Pro's define who is good enough. They have to find You.(cue scene from "the Scout") No deal, go to college.

[Juice]

Well that's the beauty of the baseball system. You don't have to declare and lose your eligibility. The Pro's define who is good enough. They have to find You.(cue scene from "the Scout") No deal, go to college.

But the problem with the baseball system is that if you test the waters, you have to do it without an agent because you're ineligible with the NCAA. Therefore, you're testing the waters and negotiating a pro contract without the help of an agent. Granted a lot of these guys get "help" from agents without signing and keeping their amateur status but the Phillies decided to screw that all up and turn in some guys to the NCAA when contract negotiations went south. The Phillies front office might be entirely filled by children or morons, maybe both.

[bobbiemcgee]

Good luck to the Phillies in signing future picks. Kids can have "Advisors" to deal directly with the mlb club but not agents.