Derrick Brown, Please Call Semaj and give him some career advice.....

[Snipe]

Did Derrick Brown Make The Right Decision In Retrospect?
Be forewarned, at the end of this discussion I am going to have a new thread with a poll. The battle lines have been drawn, and the arrogant "NBA expert" pricks that know the NBA from years ago are going to be called to come to the table again. For them "Derrick Brown to the NBA" was a no-brainer, and we were all just stupid fans with no NBA knowledge. They will get their reckoning.

I am such an egomaniac, I decided my reply to X-Factor deserved it's own thread. And I have a lot more where that came from. I am a legend in my own mind. I am still fighting message board battles forged years ago, with little or nothing to gain.


Semaj is going to be fine. He has all the talent in the world and will play in the NBA.

It's probably a good decision.

Derrick Brown left early and is making around 2-3 million a year in Europe.

Semaj has skills the NBA covets. He's 6'3 point guard with speed. He can finish at the rim over taller players. He has good vision. He average all most 5 assists on a team with 1 or 2 outside threats.

It sucks for us as Xavier fans though. Could've been top 20 preseason with Semaj.

Love to see the info on that bolded part. I simply do not believe it. He never made a million a year in the NBA and he was out of the league in three years. I can't see why he simply didn't go to Europe in the first place if they are paying that much. I call bullshit.

People made the same arguments for Derrick Brown. I think he could have enhanced his stock by staying. We will never know. He was the best player returning on the team and he left for the NBA. The next year we lost in Overtime to Kansas State for the right to play Butler to go to the Final Four. I remember A-10 Sage WH say that Xavier was one Derrick Brown away from the Final Four. Butler went to the title game and missed a last second shot to win it. Gordon Hayward got drafted as a lottery pick from Butler University and he made more money in his first year than Derrick Brown did in his entire short three year NBA career.

Here are Haywards numbers:

2010-11 Utah Jazz NBA $2,356,320
2011-12 Utah Jazz NBA $2,532,960
2012-13 Utah Jazz NBA $2,709,720
2013-14 Utah Jazz NBA $3,452,183

Career $11,051,183


Here are Derrick Browns:

2009-10 Charlotte Bobcats NBA $457,588
2010-11 Charlotte Bobcats NBA $762,195
2011-12 Charlotte Bobcats NBA $854,389

Career $2,074,172

Now is Derrick Brown as good a player as Gordon Hayward? Obviously not if you look at the NBA stats and salary, and obviously not if you look at Haywards Final Four leadership.

But what if Derrick Brown came back? What if we stop Hayward from getting that glory? No Final Four, No Championship game for him, and Derrick gets it instead? In the season before he left, Derrick Brown averaged 13.7 points and 6.1 rebounds, shooting 43% from 3 point range (and 41% for his career). Gordon Hayward left after scoring 15.5 points per game and getting 8.2 rebounds a game in the Horizon Conference. He shot 29.4% from 3 point range, and 46.4% from the field. Over his entire career, Derrick Brown shot 57.4% from the field. (For reference Jordan Crawford hit 39% of his 3-pt field goals in the next year, as well as 46% on his overall FG%, which was an excellent one for Jordan.) Brown went from taking 8 3-pointers in his freshman season, to 32 attempts in his Sophomore season (34%), to 90 in his first season as an upperclassman and hitting 43.4% of them. What would his senior year numbers have been?

Would Crawford have eclipsed him? I doubt it. Crawford would have complimented him, and he in turn would have complimented Crawford. They both would have opened up space for one another. Crawford went from scoring 9.7 PPG to an incredible 20.5 in two playing seasons. Brown went from shooting better than Crawford and scoring 13.7 ppg to riding the bench and having a disappointingly short NBA career of no real significance. And I called that. I could see it coming. He should have stayed. But the NBA experts on this board assured us all that it was a no-brainer decision. I will revisit that later.

Would he have been the star over Crawford? I doubt it would be either or, but if I had to pick I think Derrick Brown would have been The Star, because Derrick Brown had already played in 10 NCAA games in his career (Sweet 16, Elite 8, Sweet 16), and he was the returning heavyweight who even set the Xavier NCAA rebound record as a Freshman. The man was money, and he was a better three point shooter than Crawford. As versatile as Crawford was, Derrick Brown was versatile too. He had many ways that he could influence and even dominate a game.

And my secret dream season which will only be played in heaven is just how open Brad Redford would have been on a basketball court with Tu Holloway, Jordan Crawford, Derrick Brown making plays, stretching the defense and chucking all those threes. It would have been sick.


I am going to bed. I will have more to say about this nonsense. If a time to push this nonsense has come, that time is now. Semaj could hugely enhance his value with a huge year with a ranked team that advances in the dance. I have seen it before with kids like the Butler kid who was a lottery pick that wasn't even on the draft boards the year before their big run. It can be done. Semaj shit his pants in that play in game against NCState. The only hero we had was Stain on a bum leg. He needs to stay. Not just to make a legacy for himself, but to increase his value. He can do that right here. He will be the focal point of every Nationally televised game that we have. Every team he plays will have a game plan of how to stop him, but yet he will find a way to defeat them all, and his glory will be on national TV.

Imagine how Derrick Brown was so proud when we lost in overtime at Kansas State, when he was riding the bench the whole year for the Charlotte Bobcats, and then traded away anyway and discarded, NBA career over. Brown could have been in the Final Four. Semaj will always have that piss poor game at Dayton as his NCAA memory. What a joy. Thanks for coming Semaj!

I expected more from the most highly regarded recruit in our history. That is your legacy if you leave.

You have the power to change that. Next year we will be preseason ranked with you Semaj. You will be on National TV, or riding the bench. It is your choice. Your future lies in the balance, and I think your best move is staying with us. I would hate to see you have the sort NBA career of Xavier legend Derrick Brown, who left before the best.

It is almost 2:00 and I was over served tonight anyway. I will continue this conversation at a later date. God Bless You. God Bless Semaj Christon. And God Bless America!!

[American X]

Sage advice. Derrick would call, but they do not even have phones in Russia, or working plumbing, or American food. Enjoy that life, Semaj.

[Masterofreality]

Two things.

A) Tired of school
B) Money...any money.

Very possibly D League money if NBA scouts are to be believed. Not enough to leave.

Come back to school Semaj. This is your Vander Blue moment.

[Drew's Crew]

Knowing Semaj's family and economic situation, I can't blame him for taking money now and I wish him good luck (as I think he will need it...) in the NBA.

That being said, he should really come back and this isn't just the X fan in me speaking

The three common arguments against his return would be:
1. He won't improve his draft stick (a la Marcus Smart)
2. He is ready now, has the skills and the raw talent..
3. He may get injured if he comes back.

Now let's take a look at each of these arguments:

1. I can't imagine a situation in which Semaj comes back, improves his game and is ranked LOWER than he is now (middling 2nd RD pick). Using examples like Marcus Smart and other lottery picks is lazy and nonsensical argument. Semaj ISN'T A LOTTERY PICK. Heck, he won't even be first round and could potentially be at the back end of the second round. If Semaj does come back, he will no doubt improve both his game, his draft stock and ultimately his contract substantially. Therefore, the "risk" he would take by coming back is almost nonexistent.

2. Semaj doesn't have the skill set for the NBA. I don't understand why people continue to say he does. He just doesn't. In order to succeed in the NBA, you have to be able to shoot jumpers consistently. Westbrook and Rose are two examples of players that can't, but their size, athleticism and quickness is on another level so those comparisons don't quite fit. Why do you think Curry is a fantastic NBA player? Steve Blake has been in the NBA for a freaking decade! Why? Because they can shoot the ball. Period. The size and strength in the NBA paints prevents players like Semaj from getting in the paint and scoring consistently. We saw Semaj's totaly inability to do this against NC State. Teams began to figure him out towards the end of the season, and it showed.

Now, before you tell me how wrong I am and how in fact Semaj can shoot because of his shooting% from last season, please save it for another thread. As X fans, we all watched this team all season. Semaj could make 3s. Wide open, no pressure threes. Crawford had NBA range and NBA shooting, Semaj doesn't. People who would support Semaj's shooting ability by mentioning his shooting percentage would be the same guys who posited that argument with regards to DBrown. Same situation. Brown could make 3s...when he was wide open with no defensive pressure.

What this shows is that they aren't fluid enough in their form and are not consistent enough. That means they need more work and more reps. If you continue to claim Semaj can shoot, why don't you ask him why he never did it in crunch time. The NC State game was a perfect example of why Semaj should NOT go pro. We got down early....Semaj did nothing but drive. He had zero confidence in HIS OWN SHOT. NC State knew it and they made him look silly for it. What future NBA guard would pass up open 3s when his team is desperate so he can drive the lane against 2-3 defenders who are already in the paint? None.

3. The injury rate is minuscule. If he does get hurt, he has another year. He can also take out insurance. I mean, you can't debunk the possibility of him getting hurt, but it is just a convenient argument. This is basketball, not football. Injuries happen, but career threatening injuries are very rare.

Good luck to Semaj, but he will never be an impact in the NBA until he learns to shoot. Some would claim he can do that in the D league, but it isn't the same. The financial pressure and lack of patience limits huge improvements. Guys rarely go from D league to NBA and there is a reason for it.

[xavierj]

Well Rajon Rando and Michael Carter Williams can't shoot either, both are under 30% from 3, under 40% from 2 and under 70% from the line, but they seem like they can have an impact. Really there are a ton of NBA point guards that can't shoot. Semaj shooting % won't be a problem.

[GoMuskies]

If you want to be like Michael Carter Williams and break an NBA record for futility, going now is a fantastic idea!

[nuts4xu]

He is gone and Xavier Nation is already in his rear view mirror. As much as I would love a "were you there, did you hear?" Thread part 2, it isn't going to happen.

The kid has pretty much had his mind made up for several weeks. Whether it is the NBA, Europe, or the D league, he will be playing pro ball next season.

Snipe can plea, Derrick Brown can return from Siberia, and it still won't make a lick of difference.

[Porkopolis]

If the NBA doesn't work out Semaj can earn a great living in Europe. I don't fault him at all and wish him the best. I don't think he could do a whole lot to improve his stock with another year and risks catastrophe by coming back. One of my friends is a close friend of the kid's family and knowing what he has told me I am glad Backwards James is going to place his family in a better financial position.

[Drew's Crew]

Well Rajon Rando and Michael Carter Williams can't shoot either, both are under 30% from 3, under 40% from 2 and under 70% from the line, but they seem like they can have an impact. Really there are a ton of NBA point guards that can't shoot. Semaj shooting % won't be a problem.

1. MCW is atrocious and like I said, if Semaj was a lottery pick, I'd be all for it.

2. Pretty good point on Rondo, but he is very rare. I wonder if him having the largest hands in the NBA makes it a bit easier for him. I could only imagine that it can't hurt.

Still, if you can't shoot in the NBA AND you're a middling second rounder...well, good luck.

[Drew's Crew]

If the NBA doesn't work out Semaj can earn a great living in Europe. I don't fault him at all and wish him the best. I don't think he could do a whole lot to improve his stock with another year and risks catastrophe by coming back. One of my friends is a close friend of the kid's family and knowing what he has told me I am glad Backwards James is going to place his family in a better financial position.

Catastrophe? Huh?

[xavierj]

1. MCW is atrocious and like I said, if Semaj was a lottery pick, I'd be all for it.

2. Pretty good point on Rondo, but he is very rare. I wonder if him having the largest hands in the NBA makes it a bit easier for him. I could only imagine that it can't hurt.

Still, if you can't shoot in the NBA AND you're a middling second rounder...well, good luck.

Rajon is not rare in NBA stats. Point guards with high shooting % are the minority in the NBA. Semaj may not be ready but it isn't his shooting. He will fit right in with the rest if the terrible shooting points in the NBA.

[Porkopolis]

Catastrophe? Huh?
Career ending injuries are generally considered catastrophic.

[Lloyd Braun]

1. MCW is atrocious and like I said, if Semaj was a lottery pick, I'd be all for it.

2. Pretty good point on Rondo, but he is very rare. I wonder if him having the largest hands in the NBA makes it a bit easier for him. I could only imagine that it can't hurt.

Still, if you can't shoot in the NBA AND you're a middling second rounder...well, good luck.

So why should he come back if he can't shoot? His "stock" would be highest now if what you are saying is true. Plus it's not like he is an atrocious shooter. His lack of left hand drives is more of a concern. His defensive potential is possibly his biggest asset at the next level for long term success.

[markchal]

2. Semaj doesn't have the skill set for the NBA. I don't understand why people continue to say he does. He just doesn't. In order to succeed in the NBA, you have to be able to shoot jumpers consistently. Westbrook and Rose are two examples of players that can't, but their size, athleticism and quickness is on another level so those comparisons don't quite fit. Why do you think Curry is a fantastic NBA player? Steve Blake has been in the NBA for a freaking decade! Why? Because they can shoot the ball. Period. The size and strength in the NBA paints prevents players like Semaj from getting in the paint and scoring consistently. We saw Semaj's totaly inability to do this against NC State. Teams began to figure him out towards the end of the season, and it showed.



Do you even watch the NBA? Semaj won't be the focus of opposing defenses, he will be fine. So much of it is 1 on 1 and if you can get by people like he can and have good size and speed for your position, you will make a roster. He will also be passing to guys who can actually make open jumpers, not Dee Davis. No, he can't shoot like Curry, few can, but Curry wouldn't have a prayer of defending Semaj. Different players bring different skills to the table.

[Cheesehead]

BTW, D league players only make between $13,000 and $25,000. All their teams have a salary cap. Not sure Semaj can provide for his family on that if he ends up there. I really hope it works out for him.

[GoMuskies]

Your a moron

:laugh:

[drudy23]

No, he can't shoot like Curry, few can, but Curry wouldn't have a prayer of defending Semaj. Different players bring different skills to the table.

NC State players did a fine job at it, but you don't think Steph Curry could? I think you're severely undervaluing the skill and athleticism of Steph Curry. And another thing, Semaj will never come close to reaching the level of success Steph Curry has already achieved in the NBA.

[Muskie]

Final warning. No personal attacks or name calling.

[XUOWNSUC]

I know I'm in the minority, but I think Derrick (and Semaj) made the right decision. If Derrick stayed, I totally think he would have been overshadowed by Crawford AND Holloway. Would Xavier have made the Final Four? Who knows? Xavier probably would have had a different seed and a different path to the Final Four had Brown stayed. But if your dream is to play in the NBA and to make tons of money while playing basketball, I think Brown did (and is doing) just fine.

Holloway probably should have left after his junior year. He might have been drafted if he did. Instead, he got a negative press from the media for the Shootout (which is B.S. by the way) and the rest is history.

Congrats Semaj! Thank you and good luck!

Snipe - I know you are down about Semaj leaving, but you still have the dayton game today and uc spring football to look forward to.

[markchal]

NC State players did a fine job at it, but you don't think Steph Curry could? I think you're severely undervaluing the skill and athleticism of Steph Curry. And another thing, Semaj will never come close to reaching the level of success Steph Curry has already achieved in the NBA.

For the record, I didn't start the ridiculous Curry comparison. Also, NC State was able to stop him because their game plan was to do so. No one in the NBA is focusing on just stopping a bench player and there's a lot of 1 on 1. Do you think Curry could stop semaj from getting to the rim?

[LA Muskie]

Rajon is not rare in NBA stats. Point guards with high shooting % are the minority in the NBA. Semaj may not be ready but it isn't his shooting. He will fit right in with the rest if the terrible shooting points in the NBA.
Rajon Rando is about as rare a talent as they come.

[OTRMUSKIE]

I think he has like 5 brothers and sister right? However, they have struggled for this long, can't they make it another year? If he would come back I think he would be so worried about improving his draft status that it could hurt the team. Good luck to the kid.

[Masterofreality]

Derrick Brown call, or no Derrick Brown call, Semaj ain't coming back. Bank.

I hope that it works out for him.

[LA Muskie]

It cracks me up that so many people feel qualified to opine on his decision, as if they have even the slightest idea what it's like to walk in his shoes. The kid made a decision. It appears to be informed. Right or wrong, he and his family will live with the consequences. Can't we all just say thanks and good luck?

[xavierj]

Rajon Rando is about as rare a talent as they come.

Right but his stats are not. My point was you can look throughout the NBA and see it is littered with point guards who struggle shooting the basketball. Semaj not being a great shooter will have nothing to do with him being drafted or making a team.

[GoMuskies]

It cracks me up that so many people feel qualified to opine on his decision

Yeah, what will we do if people on messageboards have opinions?!?

[LA Muskie]

Right but his stats are not. My point was you can look throughout the NBA and see it is littered with point guards who struggle shooting the basketball. Semaj not being a great shooter will have nothing to do with him being drafted or making a team.

But that's my point. Those who can get away with it have unique talents that allow their teams to overlook their deficiencies. I like Semaj but I'm not sure he's in that class of player. Although to be honest I'm more concerned with the way he gets to the rim (very direct and usually from the right) because it's much harder to get into the lane in the NBA.

[Juice]

1. MCW is atrocious and like I said, if Semaj was a lottery pick, I'd be all for it.

2. Pretty good point on Rondo, but he is very rare. I wonder if him having the largest hands in the NBA makes it a bit easier for him. I could only imagine that it can't hurt.

Still, if you can't shoot in the NBA AND you're a middling second rounder...well, good luck.

Really? MCW's PER is 14.43 which is pretty good as a rookie on a shitty team.

[Juice]

I think he has like 5 brothers and sister right? However, they have struggled for this long, can't they make it another year? If he would come back I think he would be so worried about improving his draft status that it could hurt the team. Good luck to the kid.

Try 9 or 10.

[GuyFawkes38]

Snipe, I'll counter your call from Derrick Brown with a call from Darnell Williams.

Folks, just move on and wish him luck.

[OH.X.MI]

How nice of us to criticize a kid for trying to make some money. How nice of us to care more about a sports team than a kid trying to help feed his family.How nice of us to site behind a keyboard and critique a decision that few of us are capable of comprehending.How nice of us to be so high and mighty.

Semaj represented our school well and I wish him the best of luck in all of his future endeavors. Sure hope he doesn't read this board and learn how Xavier fans "support" their former players.

[Juice]

How nice of us to criticize a kid for trying to make some money. How nice of us to care more about a sports team than a kid trying to help feed his family.How nice of us to site behind a keyboard and critique a decision that few of us are capable of comprehending.How nice of us to be so high and mighty.

Semaj represented our school well and I wish him the best of luck in all of his future endeavors. Sure hope he doesn't read this board and learn how Xavier fans "support" their former players.

Thank you. This thread is paternalistic.

[X Factor]

Love to see the info on that bolded part. I simply do not believe it. He never made a million a year in the NBA and he was out of the league in three years. I can't see why he simply didn't go to Europe in the first place if they are paying that much. I call bullshit.


The highest paid players in European club basketball in the Euroleague / Eurocup in the 2013-2014 season (players making €1 million euros net income or more in a season).


Salaries are listed in euros and in base NET INCOME. The NBA equivalent salaries are also listed.


1. Linas Kleiza - Fenerbahce - €3.3 million euros net income ($8.8 million NBA salary equivalent)

2. Nenad Krstic - CSKA - €3 million euros net income ($8 million NBA salary equivalent)

3. Victor Khryapa - CSKA - €3 million euros net income ($8 million NBA salary equivalent)

4. Erazem Lorbek - Barcelona - €3 million euros net income ($8 million NBA salary equivalent)

5. Rudy Fernandez - Real Madrid - €3 million euros net income ($8 million NBA salary equivalent)

6. Juan Carlos Navarro - Barcelona - €2.5 million euros net income ($6.7 million NBA salary equivalent)

7. Semih Erden - Efes - €2.5 million euros net income ($6.7 million NBA salary equivalent)

8. Vassilis Spanoulis - Olympiacos - €2.3 million euros net income ($6.2 million NBA salary equivalent)

9. Sonny Weems - CSKA - €2.2 million euros net income ($5.9 million NBA salary equivalent)

10. Nikola Mirotic - Real Madrid - €2.0 million euros net income ($5.4 million NBA salary equivalent)

11. Milos Teodosic - CSKA - €1.9 million euros net income ($5.1 million NBA salary equivalent)

12. Vitaly Fridzon - CSKA - €1.9 million euros net income ($5.1 million NBA salary equivalent)

13. Marcelinho Huertas - Barcelona - €1.9 million euros net income ($5.1 million NBA salary equivalent)

14. Dimitris Diamantidis - Panathinaikos - €1.8 million euros net income ($4.9 million NBA salary equivalent)

15. Ante Tomic - Barcelona - €1.8 million euros net income ($4.9 million NBA salary equivalent)

16. Kostas Papanikolaou - Barcelona - €​​1.8 million euros net income ($4.9 million NBA salary equivalent)

17. Fernando San Emeterio - Baskonia - €1.8 million euros net income ($4.9 million NBA salary equivalent)

18. Brad Oleson - Barcelona - €1.7 million euros net income ($4.6 million NBA salary equivalent)

19. Jeremy Pargo - CSKA - €1.7 million euros net income ($4.6 million NBA salary equivalent)

20. Zoran Erceg - Galatasaray - €1.6 million euros net income ($4.4 million NBA salary equivalent)

21. Sergey Bykov - Lokomotiv Kuban - €1.5 million euros net income ($4.1 million NBA salary equivalent)

22. Bo McCalebb - Fenerbahce - €1.5 million euros net income ($4.1 million NBA salary equivalent)

23. Carlos Arroyo - Galatasaray - €1.5 million euros net income ($4.1 million NBA salary equivalent)

24. Zoran Planinic - Efes - €1.5 million euros net income ($4.1 million NBA salary equivalent)

25. Sergey Monya - Khimki - €1.5 million euros net income ($4.1 million NBA salary equivalent)

26. Maciej Lampe - Barcelona - €​​1.5 million euros net income ($4.1 million NBA salary equivalent)

27. Dusko Savanovic - Efes - €1.5 million euros net income ($4.1 million NBA salary equivalent)

28. Stanko Barac - Efes - €​​1.4 million euros net income ($3.8 million NBA salary equivalent)

29. Nemanja Bjelica - Fenerbahce - €1.4 million euros net income ($3.8 million NBA salary equivalent)

30. Sergio Rodriguez - Real Madrid - €1.3 million euros net income ($3.6 million NBA salary equivalent)

31. Richard Hendrix - Lokomotiv Kuban - €1.3 million euros net income ($3.6 million NBA salary equivalent)

32. Derrick Brown - Lokomotiv Kuban - €1.3 million euros net income ($3.6 million NBA salary equivalent)


So there you go Snipe!

[Masterofreality]

What? No Romain Sato?

[XMuskieFTW]

I like how they compare net income to pretax nba salary. 1.3 million euros is an excellent income though. Especially post-tax...That' about 1.8 million dollars.

[X Factor]

What? No Romain Sato?

I saw him on the list for 2012-2013.

It was 1.4 million euro net. He's done really well over there. My favorite Muskie of all time.

[West is Best]

Thank you. This thread is paternalistic.

This thread is embarrassing. A college degree isn't a ticket to success in any career path anymore, and it never was one in basketball. I'd do exactly what he's doing if I was in his shoes.

[Juice]

This thread is embarrassing. A college degree isn't a ticket to success in any career path anymore, and it never was one in basketball. I'd do exactly what he's doing if I was in his shoes.

In a heartbeat. You probably would have had a hard time convincing me to stay for this year.

[Snipe]

32. Derrick Brown - Lokomotiv Kuban - €1.3 million euros net income ($3.6 million NBA salary equivalent)

So there you go Snipe!

So you don't like my argument and you are using "facts" to dismiss it? That is weak.

I have had to resort to facts in the past, but generally only when they support my argument. At times I have to twist them and distort them a bit. When they don't support my position I like to turn to personal attacks. How pathetic of you.

Your facts are gay.

I could then use some hyperbole, or even question your patriotism. I don't know how you can even call yourself a Xavier fan! Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

"I was hoping you would not make that particular point" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3hKrKp1pU8)

Get your baseless, pipe smoking, gay un-American facts off of my thread X-Factor!

My youngest son, who is 11 years old told me today that Semaj is making a big mistake. He is losing his favorite player. Don't you care about the children?

[Snipe]

I am surprised and happy that Derrick Brown is making that type of coin. That is some good bank. I am happy to be wrong about that.

I think he could have had more, and that year he spent sitting on the bench in Charlotte he could have been cutting down the nets on Victory Parkway. And yes I am bitter. I think it could have been better for him and better for us. When he left many people said it was a no-brainer and dismissed anyone who argued otherwise. I think one can make a good case for staying to enhance your standing in the draft.

James Posey was the player Derrick Brown was most compared too. James Posey played 13 season in the NBA and made over $57 million dollars. Derrick Brown played 3 NBA seasons and made 2 million dollars. And yes 2 million is nothing to laugh at, and I am happy the man is doing well and making good coin in Europe. I am a big fan of Derrick Brown. I think he made a mistake. I think we could have made a run and that he could have been a first round pick. I think he could still be in the league.

I don't think it is a good idea to go to the league if you aren't going to play much. I think it would be better to spend that year playing for a Nationally Ranked team on a big time Program on National TV is a better way to spend that year, and then you can make more money.

Semaj is not ready for the NBA, at least not ready for anything other than the bench in my opinion. For full disclosure, I know very little about the NBA, and don't follow it all that much other than the careers of our players. I could easily be wrong. In the end, I hope Semaj does well whatever he chooses. I think he is getting some bad advice.

If Semaj stays I think we are preseason ranked. I think his name will get all the headlines. I think we will again have many games on National TV, where people will be watching and talking about Semaj. And when he has his best season yet, he will play himself into the first round of the NBA draft. When he gets to the league, he will be welcomed with PT, and sticking in the league is all about PT. Posey was a first round pick and he played major minutes in his very first year. They had made a financial commitment to him and he had a guaranteed contract. That gives them an interest in playing him and developing him that second round picks often don't have. Derrick Brown languished on the bench when he could have been a star with us. Second round picks are a dime a dozen and Semaj could be out of the league in three years or under just like many other players. The D-League would be a catastrophe.

Highest rated recruit of all time? 0 NCAA wins out of that one. His gift to us was that whale of a game I witnessed at UD Arena. That is no way to go out a Muskie. And yes again I am bitter. I am a jilted lover, and Semaj just sent me an "It's not you, it's me" letter. I am furious and I refuse to take no for an answer.

I, together with my 11 year old mini-Snipus, would like to formally demand that Semaj pull his name out of the Xavier draft and recommit his vows to the Xavier Nation.

[mistabeecee41]

What most likely happens if Derrick Brown comes back is Jordan Crawford still comes in and averages 18-20 points per game. Derrick comes back for his senior year, averages another 13 PPG. He still would have been too slow to play the 3 at the NBA level. He still would have been too small to play the 4 at the NBA level.

Also - the 2010 NBA draft was MUCH deeper than it was in 2009. Jordan Crawford was an absolute stud and was taken 27th. Do you really think Derrick Brown would have been drafted ahead of Crawford? No Chance.

[paulxu]

I, together with my 11 year old mini-Snipus,

If that's anything like Mini-Me I'm going to have nightmares tonight.

[Juice]

I am surprised and happy that Derrick Brown is making that type of coin. That is some good bank. I am happy to be wrong about that.

I think he could have had more, and that year he spent sitting on the bench in Charlotte he could have been cutting down the nets on Victory Parkway. And yes I am bitter. I think it could have been better for him and better for us. When he left many people said it was a no-brainer and dismissed anyone who argued otherwise. I think one can make a good case for staying to enhance your standing in the draft.

James Posey was the player Derrick Brown was most compared too. James Posey played 13 season in the NBA and made over $57 million dollars. Derrick Brown played 3 NBA seasons and made 2 million dollars. And yes 2 million is nothing to laugh at, and I am happy the man is doing well and making good coin in Europe. I am a big fan of Derrick Brown. I think he made a mistake. I think we could have made a run and that he could have been a first round pick. I think he could still be in the league.

I don't think it is a good idea to go to the league if you aren't going to play much. I think it would be better to spend that year playing for a Nationally Ranked team on a big time Program on National TV is a better way to spend that year, and then you can make more money.

Semaj is not ready for the NBA, at least not ready for anything other than the bench in my opinion. For full disclosure, I know very little about the NBA, and don't follow it all that much other than the careers of our players. I could easily be wrong. In the end, I hope Semaj does well whatever he chooses. I think he is getting some bad advice.

If Semaj stays I think we are preseason ranked. I think his name will get all the headlines. I think we will again have many games on National TV, where people will be watching and talking about Semaj. And when he has his best season yet, he will play himself into the first round of the NBA draft. When he gets to the league, he will be welcomed with PT, and sticking in the league is all about PT. Posey was a first round pick and he played major minutes in his very first year. They had made a financial commitment to him and he had a guaranteed contract. That gives them an interest in playing him and developing him that second round picks often don't have. Derrick Brown languished on the bench when he could have been a star with us. Second round picks are a dime a dozen and Semaj could be out of the league in three years or under just like many other players. The D-League would be a catastrophe.

Highest rated recruit of all time? 0 NCAA wins out of that one. His gift to us was that whale of a game I witnessed at UD Arena. That is no way to go out a Muskie. And yes again I am bitter. I am a jilted lover, and Semaj just sent me an "It's not you, it's me" letter. I am furious and I refuse to take no for an answer.

I, together with my 11 year old mini-Snipus, would like to formally demand that Semaj pull his name out of the Xavier draft and recommit his vows to the Xavier Nation.

Derrick had his chance at the NBA. Him not sticking in the league had nothing to do with him staying at X or not. He was playing for the Bobcats, the worst team in the league at the time, and he couldn't become a regular there.

[American X]

Final warning. No personal attacks or name calling.

OK, Hitler.

[94GRAD]

OK, Hitler.

Hitler DEFINITELY allowed personal attacks and name calling. Now if you called him a Frenchy...

[American X]

Hitler DEFINITELY allowed personal attacks and name calling. Now if you called him a Frenchy...

Your beer is stale.

[94GRAD]

Your beer is stale.


And overpriced

[xu82]

And overpriced

Not to me... are you guys paying for that stuff?

[Snipe]

What most likely happens if Derrick Brown comes back is Jordan Crawford still comes in and averages 18-20 points per game. Derrick comes back for his senior year, averages another 13 PPG. He still would have been too slow to play the 3 at the NBA level. He still would have been too small to play the 4 at the NBA level.

Also - the 2010 NBA draft was MUCH deeper than it was in 2009. Jordan Crawford was an absolute stud and was taken 27th. Do you really think Derrick Brown would have been drafted ahead of Crawford? No Chance.

Seriously, the thought that Derrick Brown wouldn't have improved as a Senior is hard for me to believe. He improved every year. He was a better three point shooter than Crawford, and his career field goal percentage was higher than Crawford's best year. In every year he shot a higher percentage. If he came back, he would have moved to the three spot and put scoring juggernaut Dante Jackson to the bench. He would have been working on his 3 ball for the League, and he probably would have popped over 150 of them. His scoring would have been similar to Crawford, and like I said they would compliment each other. With Brown on that team I think we would have been Final Four and ranked in the Top 10 all season. He really was a fantastic player for us, and it could have been a year to showcase his talent. And when that happens he goes first round. And that changes history. If we got to be Butler, we would have had the insane benefits of drafting too.

The thought that he wouldn't have gotten any better is laughable. He got better every year. Jordan Crawford did too. His numbers improved drastically.


Derrick had his chance at the NBA. Him not sticking in the league had nothing to do with him staying at X or not. He was playing for the Bobcats, the worst team in the league at the time, and he couldn't become a regular there.

Doesn't it follow then that Brown stayed too long, and that Semaj was just wasting his time this year? Why didn't Semaj go last year? Why wouldn't it be a bad idea for Semaj to have played for us this year instead of going to the league? These guys obviously can't get any better!

Is there any confirmation bias in this analysis? I think people tend to look at history as self reinforcing fait accompli, like the way it plays out is the only way it could have happened. I don't look at it that way. History is filled with dynamic events that could have tipped either way, and sometimes people through the sheer force of will make significant changes.

If Posey goes a year earlier, does he have a 14 year career instead of a 13 year career and make even more money? Does he still have the same career? Does he even make the league? Posey was picked mid first round by Denver, and signed to a multi-year guaranteed contract. They had a huge financial interest in him. They had studied the different choices, and they thought he would fit into their scheme. Teams put a lot of thought and financial resources into their first round picks. One of the benefits of that process is playing time. First round picks tend to get a good amount of it, especially mid round picks like Posey and higher. And if you don't start out on fire, they aren't quick to give up on you. They have an investment in your future. It isn't the same way for second round picks.

If Derrick Brown stays and gets picked in the first round, it could have been a completely different situation. Gordon Hayward was a lottery pick. He stunk it up as a rookie, just like Derrick. But they were committed to him and played him every game. He was involved in the game plan every single day. And come second year he started showing improvement. Now he is a fixture. They had given him guaranteed money, they invested in him and did the game plan with him in mind, working to his strengths and such, and he looks to have a long NBA career. Could history have turned out differently for him? Sure. I think so. I think his high drafting status and contract set the tone and ensured his future success.

Now James Posey is a different player than Derrick Brown, and Gordon Hayward is too. We are all little snowflakes and all that. Could history have been different for Derrick Brown? Could it have been better for Derrick Brown? I think so.

[Snipe]

It cracks me up that so many people feel qualified to opine on his decision, as if they have even the slightest idea what it's like to walk in his shoes. The kid made a decision. It appears to be informed. Right or wrong, he and his family will live with the consequences. Can't we all just say thanks and good luck?

That cracks you up? Seriously? You don't think he is ready and fear he may be making a mistake, no? Is that not opining?

We all make informed decisions. Who makes uninformed decisions? Sometimes we have bad information. Sometimes we simply make bad decisions.

If Semaj doesn't make the league, it will be a bad decision. If Semaj becomes an NBA star, it will be a good decision. People have differing opinions on whether Derrick Brown made the right decision. It is a basketball message board, and he is our best player. And you are surprised that people opine, even after you have graced us with your thoughts.

I am glad Semaj came to Xavier. I wish him the greatest of all possible worlds. I think leaving this year is a huge mistake. I could be wrong. It wouldn't have been the first time. I thought Derrick Brown made a mistake. I don't think that Jordan Crawford made a mistake.

For the record their are 7 billion people in the world and I have never walked in any of their shoes. I have my own shoes. I have opinions on all sorts of things, like even you. You certainly love that holier than thou shtick, I would like you and Emp to have a high horse competition in the offseason. It cracks you up that so many people on a basketball message board opine on the best player leaving for the draft. It actually cracks me up that THAT is what cracks you up. And you have been reading this board for years. That is odd.

[Snipe]

Two things.

A) Tired of school
B) Money...any money.

Very possibly D League money if NBA scouts are to be believed. Not enough to leave.

Come back to school Semaj. This is your Vander Blue moment.

Are any NBA scouts on the record saying that Semaj would go to the D-League? That is a disaster waiting to happen.

[Snipe]

Knowing Semaj's family and economic situation, I can't blame him for taking money now and I wish him good luck (as I think he will need it...) in the NBA.

That being said, he should really come back and this isn't just the X fan in me speaking

The three common arguments against his return would be:
1. He won't improve his draft stick (a la Marcus Smart)
2. He is ready now, has the skills and the raw talent..
3. He may get injured if he comes back.

Now let's take a look at each of these arguments:

1. I can't imagine a situation in which Semaj comes back, improves his game and is ranked LOWER than he is now (middling 2nd RD pick). Using examples like Marcus Smart and other lottery picks is lazy and nonsensical argument. Semaj ISN'T A LOTTERY PICK. Heck, he won't even be first round and could potentially be at the back end of the second round. If Semaj does come back, he will no doubt improve both his game, his draft stock and ultimately his contract substantially. Therefore, the "risk" he would take by coming back is almost nonexistent.

2. Semaj doesn't have the skill set for the NBA. I don't understand why people continue to say he does. He just doesn't. In order to succeed in the NBA, you have to be able to shoot jumpers consistently. Westbrook and Rose are two examples of players that can't, but their size, athleticism and quickness is on another level so those comparisons don't quite fit. Why do you think Curry is a fantastic NBA player? Steve Blake has been in the NBA for a freaking decade! Why? Because they can shoot the ball. Period. The size and strength in the NBA paints prevents players like Semaj from getting in the paint and scoring consistently. We saw Semaj's totaly inability to do this against NC State. Teams began to figure him out towards the end of the season, and it showed.

Now, before you tell me how wrong I am and how in fact Semaj can shoot because of his shooting% from last season, please save it for another thread. As X fans, we all watched this team all season. Semaj could make 3s. Wide open, no pressure threes. Crawford had NBA range and NBA shooting, Semaj doesn't. People who would support Semaj's shooting ability by mentioning his shooting percentage would be the same guys who posited that argument with regards to DBrown. Same situation. Brown could make 3s...when he was wide open with no defensive pressure.

What this shows is that they aren't fluid enough in their form and are not consistent enough. That means they need more work and more reps. If you continue to claim Semaj can shoot, why don't you ask him why he never did it in crunch time. The NC State game was a perfect example of why Semaj should NOT go pro. We got down early....Semaj did nothing but drive. He had zero confidence in HIS OWN SHOT. NC State knew it and they made him look silly for it. What future NBA guard would pass up open 3s when his team is desperate so he can drive the lane against 2-3 defenders who are already in the paint? None.

3. The injury rate is minuscule. If he does get hurt, he has another year. He can also take out insurance. I mean, you can't debunk the possibility of him getting hurt, but it is just a convenient argument. This is basketball, not football. Injuries happen, but career threatening injuries are very rare.

Good luck to Semaj, but he will never be an impact in the NBA until he learns to shoot. Some would claim he can do that in the D league, but it isn't the same. The financial pressure and lack of patience limits huge improvements. Guys rarely go from D league to NBA and there is a reason for it.

I think you are spot on. He simply isn't ready. One of the arguments that they are pushing is that they know he isn't ready but staying another year will only expose that he isn't an NBA player. Not a ringing endorsement for telling a kid he should declare for the draft.

You compared his shooting percentage to Derrick Browns. Derrick Brown took 90 threes in his last year here and hit 43.3% of them. That is a hell of a lot more than Semaj and Derrick had a much better percentage. The year before Derrick only took which was less than 1 a game and he only hit 34.4%. If Semaj made the same improvement next year (I think he could do better), it would help his stock immensely. And once he gets that 3 game going, his drive to the basket will be next to impossible to defend without help defense. He really is poised for a breakout year as an upperclassman.

[XUFan09]

Are any NBA scouts on the record saying that Semaj would go to the D-League? That is a disaster waiting to happen.

My guess is he goes to Europe before he goes to the D League.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[Snipe]

I would. My impeccable research shows that Derrick Brown is making major coin in Europe. And Europe has something else we don't have, a large young Muslim population. So you always have that.

[NY44]

So Semaj isn't ready because he can't shoot? As has been said repeatedly on this thread, he shot almost 48% last season and 38% from 3. Which is pretty damn good. How much higher do you see this percentage getting? How much room for improvement is there really? There are various levels of contributors in the NBA, you don't have to be ready to be a starter to be ready. Outside of the lottery picks, the NBA draft is about upside, and Semaj has plenty of that. If he stays another year he loses part of that upside and if his shooting doesn't improve enough to make up for it, then it's an unrepairable mistake. More players survive going too early than too late.

[Masterofreality]

Are any NBA scouts on the record saying that Semaj would go to the D-League? That is a disaster waiting to happen.

"DraftExpress.com projects the 6-foot-3 Christon — who averaged 17.0 points and 4.2 assists this season — as the No. 43 pick in the draft.

“That is his range,” one veteran NBA scout told SNY.tv.

“Nice college guard with good size for a point. Not a shooter but can score and get to the basket. He could become a good on-ball defender. Probably going to spend sometime in the D-League. . His decision-making also needs to improve. He currently is more of a scoring guard than a point guard.”

[Snipe]

More players survive going too early than too late.

I don't know how to go about debating that, or how you could support that. Like name one player that didn't survive because he went too late. I think people could come up with quite a few names of kids who went to early.

[Snipe]

"DraftExpress.com projects the 6-foot-3 Christon — who averaged 17.0 points and 4.2 assists this season — as the No. 43 pick in the draft.

“That is his range,” one veteran NBA scout told SNY.tv.

“Nice college guard with good size for a point. Not a shooter but can score and get to the basket. He could become a good on-ball defender. Probably going to spend sometime in the D-League. . His decision-making also needs to improve. He currently is more of a scoring guard than a point guard.”

If he leaves Xavier and what should be a ranked squad and spends any time in the D-League, then this move is a disaster of biblical proportions.

[NY44]

I don't know how to go about debating that, or how you could support that. Like name one player that didn't survive because he went too late. I think people could come up with quite a few names of kids who went to early.

Tu Holloway.

EDIT: If Derrick Brown can be an argument for leaving too early then Tu is definitely a case against staying too long. I'll take Derrick's situation over Tu's any day.

[Masterofreality]

Tu Holloway.

Uh, look. Nobody loves Tu more than me, but...

...He can't stick a full year in Turkey much less Europe. Would have never been drafted in an earlier year. Now he's playing on a short contract in Puerto Rico.

Gotta be real...

[Juice]

Uh, look. Nobody loves Tu more than me, but...

...He can't stick a full year in Turkey much less Europe. Would have never been drafted in an earlier year. Now he's playing on a short contract in Puerto Rico.

Gotta be real...

Yeah Tu's problem was size and athleticism. That's something that will never develop.

[Masterofreality]

Yeah Tu's problem was size and athleticism. That's something that will never develop.

But his heart was never....EVER....a problem.

[Muskie]

I hope it works out well for Semaj. Between Derrick Brown in Russia and Burrell and Duncan in Israel he will make a nice living abroad if it doesn't.

[Snipe]

I'm sure I will get negative reps for this, because you are a legend or whatever.

But you have the most spiteful thoughts of anyone I have ever had the misfortune of reading. Everything you don't like is gay, Europe has muslims, and Semaj is going to fail at everything in life. Sure some of us might be "high and mighty" but at least we aren't wallowing in the hate fueled world you live in.

I apologize if I offended you.

For the record, the gay thing is a joke. I didn't mean it. In the very first post of this thread I called X-Factor out and I called bullshyt. That is a shot across the bow. He came right back with the facts and made me eat crow. I was trying to be funny about acknowledging that I was wrong and he was right. This was my lame attempt at humor: (click the link too!)


So you don't like my argument and you are using "facts" to dismiss it? That is weak.

I have had to resort to facts in the past, but generally only when they support my argument. At times I have to twist them and distort them a bit. When they don't support my position I like to turn to personal attacks. How pathetic of you.

Your facts are gay.

I could then use some hyperbole, or even question your patriotism. I don't know how you can even call yourself a Xavier fan! Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

"I was hoping you would not make that particular point" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3hKrKp1pU8)

Get your baseless, pipe smoking, gay un-American facts off of my thread X-Factor!

My youngest son, who is 11 years old told me today that Semaj is making a big mistake. He is losing his favorite player. Don't you care about the children?

So I don't actually think that his facts are gay or un-American. Facts are not sexual beings. His facts do not have the urge to bone my facts up the bum. I made that all up. I was being silly. I think X-Factor is a Great American and a True Patriot, and not gay at all (not that there is anything wrong with that, obviously). I myself am a lesbian trapped inside a man's body, and I have spent years supporting lesbian causes (subscription to Penthouse, etc.). I also supported gay marriage before Barrack Obama did, so if you are looking for a bigot look to him and not me. I am on the right side of history, brother.

And I didn't say anything negative about the Muslims in Europe. I actually was noting the rich Diversity that Europe has that we don't. You apparently look at Diversity and extolling the large and rapidly growing Muslim population as a negative. Read my post again. Why don't you celebrate Diversity. I love it so much I capitalize Diversity. Again, right side of history for me.

And I love Semaj and I am begging him to stay! I said he is on the verge of a breakout season and will lead us into the rankings while enhancing his draft stock. I am concerned that he is making the wrong decision. That is my opinion, and it is not hateful. I fear I will be on the right side of history on that one too, just as I was with Derrick Brown. And I love Derrick Brown. That kid won Tournament games. He played in 10 of them in three years. Greedy me wanted more. Greedy me wanted him to be a first round pick and still playing in the NBA selling the Xavier brand.

Don't be a playa hater, and don't hate me because I am beautiful.

[NY44]

Uh, look. Nobody loves Tu more than me, but...

...He can't stick a full year in Turkey much less Europe. Would have never been drafted in an earlier year. Now he's playing on a short contract in Puerto Rico.

Gotta be real...

I think you're forgetting how good Tu was at the end of his junior season. I know this isn't a sports site, but take a look at this WCPO article from the day after 2012 draft. http://www.wcpo.com/sports/college-sports/xavier-university-sports/where-will-tu-holloway-be-drafted

Quote, "If you asked this time last year where Tu Holloway was going to be drafted, the answer would have been a resounding, "1st Round.""

EDIT: From BleacherReport "...Holloway is as an undersized, probable second-round pick, and these images may be too much for NBA GMs to take a chance on." The images they are alluding too are from the brawl in his senior season.

[Snipe]

Tu Holloway.

EDIT: If Derrick Brown can be an argument for leaving too early then Tu is definitely a case against staying too long. I'll take Derrick's situation over Tu's any day.

I will take Derrick's situation today!

Tu Holloway didn't have the size to play in a giant's game. I hope he finds something overseas and makes some bank, but great small guards are in endless supply, even great guards like Tu.

I don't think Tu would have enhanced anything by leaving, other than avoiding the Crosstown disaster that temporarily derailed the program. We are still licking those wounds. I still rue that day.

[Snipe]

I think you're forgetting how good Tu was at the end of his junior season. I know this isn't a sports site, but take a look at this WCPO article from the day after 2012 draft. http://www.wcpo.com/sports/college-sports/xavier-university-sports/where-will-tu-holloway-be-drafted

Quote, "If you asked this time last year where Tu Holloway was going to be drafted, the answer would have been a resounding, "1st Round.""

EDIT: From BleacherReport "...Holloway is as an undersized, probable second-round pick, and these images may be too much for NBA GMs to take a chance on." The images they are alluding too are from the brawl in his senior season.

I am not sure he was ever first round on the mock drafts as a junior, I could be wrong. I don't pay much attention to those things. That is an interesting quote though so I have adjusted your score upward by 10 points. Well played.

[NY44]

I still rue that day.

Yeah, that day was so gay.

[MADXSTER]

Yeah, that day was so gay.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[Snipe]

You are going to get me sent to the principals office!

[Juice]

I think you're forgetting how good Tu was at the end of his junior season. I know this isn't a sports site, but take a look at this WCPO article from the day after 2012 draft. http://www.wcpo.com/sports/college-sports/xavier-university-sports/where-will-tu-holloway-be-drafted

Quote, "If you asked this time last year where Tu Holloway was going to be drafted, the answer would have been a resounding, "1st Round.""

EDIT: From BleacherReport "...Holloway is as an undersized, probable second-round pick, and these images may be too much for NBA GMs to take a chance on." The images they are alluding too are from the brawl in his senior season.

You citing Bleacher Report as a support for your argument is a problem.

[Masterofreality]

I think you're forgetting how good Tu was at the end of his junior season. I know this isn't a sports site, but take a look at this WCPO article from the day after 2012 draft. http://www.wcpo.com/sports/college-sports/xavier-university-sports/where-will-tu-holloway-be-drafted

Quote, "If you asked this time last year where Tu Holloway was going to be drafted, the answer would have been a resounding, "1st Round.""

EDIT: From BleacherReport "...Holloway is as an undersized, probable second-round pick, and these images may be too much for NBA GMs to take a chance on." The images they are alluding too are from the brawl in his senior season.

Please. The brawl had nothing to do with his not getting drafted. Know what else? He willed his team to a huge NCAA win over Notre Dame with a superb shot and lead them to a a Sweet 16... Without Jordan Crawford. He had a fantastic senior season. Remember the Purdue game? All of that would have way overridden any brawl talk.

Tu just is not big or fast enough. He had balls of steel, but just not enough stuff for the Association.

[NY44]

You citing Bleacher Report as a support for your argument is a problem.

As opposed to your citations? Not a lot of reputable sources talk about draft stock rumors, even fewer would have them up still. The point being, that people were talking about him getting drafted and he didn't. I can only speculate that he would have been drafted after his junior season, but it couldn't have gotten much worse than being undrafted. You absolutely cannot say his stock went up because he stayed.

[Juice]

As opposed to your citations? Not a lot of reputable sources talk about draft stock rumors, even fewer would have them up still. The point being, that people were talking about him getting drafted and he didn't. I can only speculate that he would have been drafted after his junior season, but it couldn't have gotten much worse than being undrafted. You absolutely cannot say his stock went up because he stayed.

Tu was never making it in the NBA whether he left after junior or senior year. Period.

Bleacher Report? You do realize that 99% of the content on that site is farmed out to random Joe Schmoe's with no writing experience or authority about basketball or any sport. I literally could right something tomorrow for Bleacher Report if I wanted to.

[Masterofreality]

Here's what Tu's draft prospects were on NBA.com from Chris Dortch:

"NBA projection:
Holloway has been projected in the second-round to undrafted category. His size is a problem.

[Juice]

Here's what Tu's draft prospects were on NBA.com:

"NBA projection:
Holloway has been projected in the second-round to undrafted category. His size is a problem.

But did you read what Bleacher Report wrote?!

[xu82]

You are going to get me sent to the principals office!

Do you have a chair with your name on it?

[NY44]

Here's what Tu's draft prospects were on NBA.com from Chris Dortch:

"NBA projection:
Holloway has been projected in the second-round to undrafted category. His size is a problem.

This means nothing to the argument without a date.

[xu82]

You are going to get me sent to the principals office!

Is your office bigger than his?

[jhelmes37]

Maybe DB could've gotten to the Final Four.

But he was one freak summer league or practice incident away from making zero dollars.

Instead, he's made over $2 million and counting.

If be willing to be the doesn't regret his decision. I wouldn't. I'll be lucky if I make that in my entire career. And DB is well under 30.

One of those cheese dick Fox Sports reporters had the balls to ask Crawford if he regretted his decision during a time out at an X game he attended during his rookie year.

Crawford looked at him like he had three heads.

You could hear him thinking, "Of course not, asshole. I'm a millionaire."

My guess is DB feels the same way.

[Xman95]

I think you're forgetting how good Tu was at the end of his junior season. I know this isn't a sports site, but take a look at this WCPO article from the day after 2012 draft. http://www.wcpo.com/sports/college-sports/xavier-university-sports/where-will-tu-holloway-be-drafted

Quote, "If you asked this time last year where Tu Holloway was going to be drafted, the answer would have been a resounding, "1st Round.""

EDIT: From BleacherReport "...Holloway is as an undersized, probable second-round pick, and these images may be too much for NBA GMs to take a chance on." The images they are alluding too are from the brawl in his senior season.

And, if you remember, Tu's senior stats were very similar to those from his junior year. So I don't think his draft stock truly took much of a hit by coming back. Ultimately I think he was viewed as a fringe player regardless of when he would have left. Not enough size, not athletic enough. Heck of a college player though.

[NY44]

And, if you remember, Tu's senior stats were very similar to those from his junior year. So I don't think his draft stock truly took much of a hit by coming back. Ultimately I think he was viewed as a fringe player regardless of when he would have left. Not enough size, not athletic enough. Heck of a college player though.

I agree with this. The difference being in the buzz around Tu after his junior year which was gone after his senior season. Would he have made it? No, but someone might have taken a chance on him.

This has gotten pretty far from the point. Semaj can get paid to play basketball THIS year. It's a very rare thing to be able to do that. It might not seem like perfect timing to us, but it might never be perfect timing. Make hay while the sun shines.

[Masterofreality]

I agree with this. The difference being in the buzz around Tu after his junior year which was gone after his senior season. Would he have made it? No, but someone might have taken a chance on him.

This has gotten pretty far from the point. Semaj can get paid to play basketball THIS year. It's a very rare thing to be able to do that. It might not seem like perfect timing to us, but it might never be perfect timing. Make hay while the sun shines.

What? Get paid like Vander Blue? DLeague money?

Blue came out after helping lead Marquette to an Elite 8. He averaged 18ppg in the NCAA Tournament in 2013. His year was that he averaged 14.8 ppg, 3.2 RPG and shot 45.4% from the field and 75.6% from the free line.

Semaj is coming out after a first round game exit and a pretty ugly performance where he scored 14. His year was that he averaged 17.0ppg, 2.7 RPG and shot 47.9% from the field and 66.8% from the free line- which was actually WORSE than his freshman year at the foul line.

Blue is also 6:5 and. Semaj is 6:3. Blue did NOT get drafted and is now in the netherworld of pro basketball.

The sun don't shine in the netherworld.

[NY44]

What? Get paid like Vander Blue? DLeague money?

Blue came out after helping lead Marquette to an Elite 8. He averaged 18ppg in the NCAA Tournament in 2013. His year was that he averaged 14.8 ppg, 3.2 RPG and shot 45.4% from the field and 75.6% from the free line.

Semaj is coming out after a first round game exit and a pretty ugly performance where he scored 14. His year was that he averaged 17.0ppg, 2.7 RPG and shot 47.9% from the field and 66.8% from the free line- which was actually WORSE than his freshman year at the foul line.

Blue is also 6:5 and. Semaj is 6:3. Blue did NOT get drafted and is now in the netherworld of pro basketball.

The sun don't shine in the netherworld.

Even if you're right, D League money is better than D1 money.

[MADXSTER]

Even if you're right, D League money is better than D1 money.

Unless you go to Kentucky

[Masterofreality]

Even if you're right, D League money is better than D1 money.

Really? I guess, if you think that between $14,000 and $25,000/year plus $30/day in meal money is a lot.

U can make more than that working at McDonalds.

http://t.answers.com/answers/#!/entry/how-much-do-nba-dleague-players-get-paid,4fda13764b672622b839336c/2

[xavierj]

Unless you go to Kentucky

That is probably true. I know some football players who went to UK and got a decent payday. I would imagine basketball pays better.

[NY44]

Really? I guess, if you think that between $14,000 and $25,000/year plus $30/day in meal money is a lot.

U can make more than that working at McDonalds.

http://t.answers.com/answers/#!/entry/how-much-do-nba-dleague-players-get-paid,4fda13764b672622b839336c/2

I don't see him going into the D league. I think he's an amazing athlete who has glimpses of greatness. He continually impressed me all year with his speed and ability to get to the hole. I see him as the 3rd best PG in the draft right behind Ennis. No he can't do it all, but whatever team he's on next year won't need him to like we did.

[Masterofreality]

I don't see him going into the D league. I think he's an amazing athlete who has glimpses of greatness. He continually impressed me all year with his speed and ability to get to the hole. I see him as the 3rd best PG in the draft right behind Ennis. No he can't do it all, but whatever team he's on next year won't need him to like we did.

NBA scouts disagree.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Comparing Maj to Vander Blue is just a lazy and stupid argument. They're not at all similar players and their draft prospects aren't comparable either

[markchal]

NBA scouts disagree.

Are you sure more than one has floated the d league thing? Also, it's not like they meant he was going to be a d league FA, I'm pretty sure it was meant as a team signing him and possibly having to send him down on a player assignment, so it's not like he'd be Making d league money.

[NY44]

Are you sure more than one has floated the d league thing? Also, it's not like they meant he was going to be a d league FA, I'm pretty sure it was meant as a team signing him and possibly having to send him down on a player assignment, so it's not like he'd be Making d league money.

What are you talking about? You can't develop in the development league. You can only do that in college.