Not Good Enough

[Masterofreality]

Very clear.

Not enough shooters, not enough athletes. Not enough good decision makers.

Getting to where we got to, is the best we could have hoped for.

And, I gotta tell you, if Semaj comes out, it is the worst decision ever in history. He has a long, long way to go. No way he is a pro.

I hope that there are some shooters in this class coming in. I can't take any more missed free throws and wide ass open 3's.

[LadyMuskie]

We MUST start improving our game throughout the season. The hallmark of all of our great teams is that we got better as the season went on - even when we were pretty damn good to begin with. We're not improving and until we do, we will continue to have seasons like this.

[GoMuskies]

Mack best get us good enough. And quick. Next year is his sixth...

[markchal]

If Semaj leaves it will take a miracle to get back next year. Mack better pray he does stay and hope Abell is on the Crawford end of transfers.

[MuskieFN]

Very clear.

Not enough shooters, not enough athletes. Not enough good decision makers.

Getting to where we got to, is the best we could have hoped for.

And, I gotta tell you, if Semaj comes out, it is the worst decision ever in history. He has a long, long way to go. No way he is a pro.

I hope that there are some shooters in this class coming in. I can't take any more missed free throws and wide ass open 3's.

I think I agree with all of this. Except the athleticism portion. And free throws did really get to be a benefit as the year went along.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Very clear.

Not enough shooters, not enough athletes. Not enough good decision makers.

Getting to where we got to, is the best we could have hoped for.

And, I gotta tell you, if Semaj comes out, it is the worst decision ever in history. He has a long, long way to go. No way he is a pro.

I hope that there are some shooters in this class coming in. I can't take any more missed free throws and wide ass open 3's.

Can't really disagree with anything said here.

X had no consistent outside shooters. Myles became a massive disappointment once Big East play started. Overall X's lack of outside shooting was a killer.

And as much as I like Semaj, he'd be a fool to leave early. No way is he a first round pick in this draft class.

Hopefully Remy Abell and the incoming freshmen are as good of shooters as advertised.

[GuyFawkes38]

Mack's meh recruiting has caught up with us this year. Regardless of how his classes rank, he thus far hasn't attracted the talent of Miller.

The good thing is that I think he's turned a corner with recruiting and I think Mack is a good game coach.

[JAPER]

Lack of player leadership hurt this team. Who will be the leader next year? Matt is a solid candidate. This team did well to get the invite in a new challenging league. I'm proud of another successful season. Disappoininting way to go no doubt, but did well overall. Congrats wolf pack, good luck!

[Masterofreality]

We MUST start improving our game throughout the season. The hallmark of all of our great teams is that we got better as the season went on - even when we were pretty damn good to begin with. We're not improving and until we do, we will continue to have seasons like this.

As Peter Gillen used to say, shooting solves a multitude of sins. Xavier shot 2-14 from 3. At least 10 of those were totally wide ass open. Myles Davis ends the year 1 for his last 23. We also only shot 68% from the foul line. You can only pound the ball into the post expecting to score so many times. You HAVE to have shooters to keep the defense honest.

Watching other Big East teams and other teams in general tells you that you had better be able to knock down open shots..and this team did not. I sure as hell hope that Sumner, Macura and Bluiett can throw them in.

[MuskieFN]

Mack's meh recruiting has caught up with us this year. Regardless of how his classes rank, he thus far hasn't attracted the talent of Miller.

The good thing is that I think he's turned a corner with recruiting and I think Mack is a good game coach.

I believe it's also important to realize how much the program lost after 2011-2012. To have 21 wins 2 seasons later isn't too bad.

[Xavier]

I just don't see how xavier improved throughout the season. That is on Mack. I'm frustrated with how this season turned out, and to complete him to Miller May be unfair. But it isn't even close, wish Xavier ponied up the money with miller.

[GoMuskies]

I just don't see how xavier improved throughout the season. That is on Mack. I'm frustrated with how this season turned out, and to complete him to Miller May be unfair. But it isn't even close, wish Xavier ponied up the money with miller.

Miller wasn't turning Arizona down.

[nasdadjr]

Not an overreaction but this one is on mack and a horrible gameplan. Our offense proved we should work inside out in the first half. In the second half I swear I was watching the xavier knicks. All it was was high ball screen and semaj drive to get blocked. No movement and no set pieces. It literally looked like streetball. Mack needs to pUT his guys in a position to be successful and he failed miserably

[XUGRAD80]

MOR and LadyMusk......you hit the nail on the head. Can't fault the effort, and there was some individual improvment by a few players over the year, but there was limited talent to begin with, and the TEAM did NOT play better or more consistently as the season went on. I hope the returners get better over the offseason and that the newcomers can improve the talent level. Semaj needs to return for HIS own good. Matt, lose another 15-20 lbs and get better with our RIGHT hand and you could be unstoppable down low.

Seniors....thanks for our efforts over the years. Sorry to see you go out so early, but happy you did make it back to the Tourney for your senior year. Good luck with your future endeavors and continue to make the Xavier Nation proud.

[Porkopolis]

This game summed up the season. Frustrating.

[MuskieFN]

I just don't see how xavier improved throughout the season. That is on Mack. I'm frustrated with how this season turned out, and to complete him to Miller May be unfair. But it isn't even close, wish Xavier ponied up the money with miller.

I think Martin and Semaj are better than when the year started. And if you saw Matt Stainbrook at Western Michigan, he's a much better player than two seasons ago. Reynolds improved too. That's not a bad nucleus to start from.

[Masterofreality]

Stop with the Mack downer. He can't shoot the ball. His play calls work. Even after tonight, CMack is 6-5 in NCAA games. Bad coaches don't do that.

Semaj and Dee Davis made horrible decisions Semaj had 7, that's SEVEN turnovers. Some of them were just plain careless.

There were setups with good shots, but these guys refused to make them.

GET SOME SHOOTERS on this team.

[Caveat]

The lack of development (and in many cases, outright regression) of the bench players on this squad is alarming.

Also, the defensive mental errors and lack of offensive creativity continue to plague the team, regardless of who is playing.

[Xavier]

Look, I think if maj stays x will be very good next year. I just expect more. This team has good talent, 7-10 seed talent. The BE wasn't even very good this year.

[LadyMuskie]

MOR - I see what you're saying. But, whose job is it to get the shooters on the team? Whose job is it to make sure the opponent has been well-scouted and the team knows how to contain the opposing offense? Coaches might not be able to shoot the ball, defend, etc. but they're still pretty damn important. If he gets the credit for being 6-5 in the NCAA, then he has to take responsibility for what is being put out on the court.

[drudy23]

There has been an obvious regression of this program under Mack. From 2 disastrous recruiting classes, Lyons, to Dez, to the fight, to the cloud around the University...we've taken a step back and all of those things played a part.

Has Mack been unlucky to have coached through all of this? Or is there something about Mack that has played a part in all of this? It's been 6 years...things better turn.

[BandAid]

The lack of development (and in many cases, outright regression) of the bench players on this squad is alarming.

A lot has been said about the regression of Farr, Randolph, and Myles, but it's quite normal and even expected that the bench shortens as the year goes on.

But yes, the bench needs to be sorely improved - as does the 4 and to a lesser extent the 1

[Classof1985]

Stop with the Mack downer. He can't shoot the ball. His play calls work. Even after tonight, CMack is 6-5 in NCAA games. Bad coaches don't do that.

Semaj and Dee Davis made horrible decisions Semaj had 7, that's SEVEN turnovers. Some of them were just plain careless.

There were setups with good shots, but these guys refused to make them.

GET SOME SHOOTERS on this team.

Great players come up big in big games. Tonight, Warren, Lewis, and Turner came up big for NC State. For X, Stainbrook came up big. Christon, not so much. No way he's ready for the next level.

[Xavier]

The thing is, this team has very good talent if maj comes back. Plus it's best X recruiting class ever....but if we don't win in the NCAA tournament next year (with maj) he should be gone.

[mistabeecee41]

There has been an obvious regression of this program under Mack. From 2 disastrous recruiting classes, Lyons, to Dez, to the fight, to the cloud around the University...we've taken a step back and all of those things played a part.

Has Mack been unlucky to have coached through all of this? Or is there something about Mack that has played a part in all of this? It's been 6 years...things better turn.

2 disastrous classes might be an underestimate.

[xsteve1]

I would think Myles needs to really think about his future at X especially with Bluiett and Macura coming in. The guy who recruited him is at Manhatten so maybe that would be a good spot for him.

[markchal]

The thing is, this team has very good talent if maj comes back. Plus it's best X recruiting class ever....but if we don't win in the NCAA tournament next year (with maj) he should be gone.

I think the class is overhyped. It's ranked high because we have a lot of solid players. I think only Blueitt contributes next year. Lets hope Abell is the next Crawford.

[markchal]

I would think Myles needs to really think about his future at X especially with Bluiett and Macura coming in. The guy who recruited him is at Manhatten so maybe that would be a good spot for him.

Myles paid his own way last year. That dedication deserves more time than one season. I think he will be fine. I'm more worried about Randolph.

[xsteve1]

Stop with the Mack downer. He can't shoot the ball. His play calls work. Even after tonight, CMack is 6-5 in NCAA games. Bad coaches don't do that.

Semaj and Dee Davis made horrible decisions Semaj had 7, that's SEVEN turnovers. Some of them were just plain careless.

There were setups with good shots, but these guys refused to make them.

GET SOME SHOOTERS on this team.

I think Mack is a really good coach, but he doesn't bring that toughness that Miller brought and rubbed off on his players. X just doesn't seem to play with that chip on their shoulder any longer.

[xudash]

Stop with the Mack downer. He can't shoot the ball. His play calls work. Even after tonight, CMack is 6-5 in NCAA games. Bad coaches don't do that.

Semaj and Dee Davis made horrible decisions Semaj had 7, that's SEVEN turnovers. Some of them were just plain careless.

There were setups with good shots, but these guys refused to make them.

GET SOME SHOOTERS on this team.

Basketball IQ is my concern.

It got to the point with me late in the season that I would wait for an absolutely "here it comes" lazy pass between this crew. Davis and Martin were usually involved; just way too casual in their demeanor out there.

I would think, regardless of what anyone feels about the talent level, that a player at this point at this level - certainly the players we have - could make a crisp, accurate pass to a teammate that otherwise isn't blanketed THIS LATE INTO THE SEASON.

Tonight, and on other occasions, they work to get the opposing lead back to 2, then brain fart themselves into being down 8 to 10 in a heartbeat, all due to stupid decisions and poor execution.

The Xavier team that took out UC would have destroyed this NCSU team this evening. This Xavier team, with its leaking oil, busted shocks and loose breaks was simply a wreck waiting to happen.

So, we are working our way back from a two year rough patch. We were able to finish 3rd in the BE, keep a positive conference win record going, win 20 games, and make it to the NCAA Tournament. We were the Keystone Cops doing all that, but we did it.

The glass is exactly half full/empty as far as this season is concerned.

[nasdadjr]

Being a mack downer? I give credit when it's due and criticize when it's merited. Anyone who says xavier didn't play almost exclusively isolation basketball in the second half doesn't know basketball.

With that said our talent was limited and if Martin is off this team isn't very good offensively. I hope blueitt and Abell help that

[drudy23]

I think Mack is a really good coach, but he doesn't bring that toughness that Miller brought and rubbed off on his players. X just doesn't seem to play with that chip on their shoulder any longer.

That's demand and respect...there's a reason why players will run through walls for some coaches. I agree..we don't have that.

[Xavier]

There has been an obvious regression of this program under Mack. From 2 disastrous recruiting classes, Lyons, to Dez, to the fight, to the cloud around the University...we've taken a step back and all of those things played a part.

Has Mack been unlucky to have coached through all of this? Or is there something about Mack that has played a part in all of this? It's been 6 years...things better turn.

I think it's a little of both....but it's Clear there has been a regression under Mack. I didn't expect a miller type coach (I have high regard for him, top 5 coach) but expected more. It's been tough.

[BandAid]

I think Mack is a really good coach, but he doesn't bring that toughness that Miller brought and rubbed off on his players. X just doesn't seem to play with that chip on their shoulder any longer.

I remember when we played Georgia. CJ went up, got fouled, and pretty much fell on his head. He goes to the line to attempt his first free throw and misses.

Sean yells, "CJ, are you hurt?"

"Naw Coach."

"Then make your f*cking free throws!"

[Masterofreality]

Chris Mack just said it in his press conference...

"I can say it now...we are not a very good shooting team."

We were down 2 at 43-41. Justin Martin had a wide ass open 3 set up by a play call. He missed and it became a fast break basket for NC State. Now we're down 4 and then we turn the ball over twice by bad decisions.. Game over by bad shooting and bad thinking.

Again. Xavier was picked by "experts" to finish 7th in a pre-season poll. We, albeit barely, made the Tournament. A case could be made that we overachieved.

[Masterofreality]

Being a mack downer? I give credit when it's due and criticize when it's merited. Anyone who says xavier didn't play almost exclusively isolation basketball in the second half doesn't know basketball.

With that said our talent was limited and if Martin is off this team isn't very good offensively. I hope blueitt and Abell help that

Of course we played isolation basketball.....BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN PROVEN THAT NOBODY CAN CONSISTENTLY MAKE AN OUTSIDE SHOT!

Thank Gawd we did against the Borecats, but this has been a clear fact all year.

[nasdadjr]

I will say this I think my number 1 evaluator on next year's coaching job will be the progress of jalen reynolds. He is a legitimate nba talent with an nba body. No reason with great development he shouldn't average a double double

[LadyMuskie]

I think Mack is a really good coach, but he doesn't bring that toughness that Miller brought and rubbed off on his players. X just doesn't seem to play with that chip on their shoulder any longer.

I think that chip was neutered in December 2011. That said, you find another way to fire the team up/create motivation/create loyalty/create a live together-die together feeling on the team.

[LadyMuskie]

I remember when we played Georgia. CJ went up, got fouled, and pretty much fell on his head. He goes to the line to attempt his first free throw and misses.

Sean yells, "CJ, are you hurt?"

"Naw Coach."

"Then make your f*cking free throws!"

Remember when we played against SJU in the A10 tourney at US Bank Miller's second year. Similar situation with Doellman. Doellman was fouled hard, was hurt, or at least had his bell rung fairly good, and Miller said "You gotta shoot and make these." and he did.

[Masterofreality]

I remember when we played Georgia. CJ went up, got fouled, and pretty much fell on his head. He goes to the line to attempt his first free throw and misses.

Sean yells, "CJ, are you hurt?"

"Naw Coach."

"Then make your f*cking free throws!"

I'm sure all that Chris Mack heard from the administration and some fat cat alumni after the 2011 SucKS game was concerns that we had too much "street" in the program. That made it incumbent that he then recruit "good" kids. (Nothing against Tu etc, but that was the perception) So, we have been getting "good" kids. This recruiting class will hopefully be "good" in talent too.

[nasdadjr]

Master of reality isolation basketball doesn't work in nba high school middle school or even third grade girls basketball. We didn't run that in the first half and shouldn't have in second half. If you say otherwise your just outright wrong no other way to put it

[xu82]

Chris Mack just said it in his press conference...

"I can say it now...we are not a very good shooting team."

We were down 2 at 43-41. Justin Martin had a wide ass open 3 set up by a play call. He missed and it became a fast break basket for NC State. Now we're down 4 and then we turn the ball over twice by bad decisions.. Game over by bad shooting and bad thinking.

Again. Xavier was picked by "experts" to finish 7th in a pre-season poll. We, albeit barely, made the Tournament. A case could be made that we overachieved.

This makes me think back to an interview discussing the incoming recruiting class. Mack went out of his way to say something along the lines of "this is maybe the best shooting class in the country, all these kids can shoot". He was basically saying then we were a weak shooting team and he was aware and fixing it- and he was right about this years team. Now let's hope we get some of the help we expect.

[Thor in 204]

A lot has been said about the regression of Farr, Randolph, and Myles, but it's quite normal and even expected that the bench shortens as the year goes on.

But yes, the bench needs to be sorely improved - as does the 4 and to a lesser extent the 1

All three freshman who "regressed" in Big East play. I'm betting they will be better next year. I watch Myles regarding his knee and I don't think it's healthy, and likely unable to get better in the midst of a tough season. He needs to rest and rehab his knee and we'll see how he shoots next year when he's healthy.

[drudy23]

All three freshman who "regressed" in Big East play. I'm betting they will be better next year. I watch Myles regarding his knee and I don't think it's healthy, and likely unable to get better in the midst of a tough season. He needs to rest and rehab his knee and we'll see how he shoots next year when he's healthy.

bs on myles

[xu82]

Master of reality isolation basketball doesn't work in nba high school middle school or even third grade girls basketball. We didn't run that in the first half and shouldn't have in second half. If you say otherwise your just outright wrong no other way to put it

We were able to get plenty of open looks. We responded with pathetic shooting results. Then you get guys who try to do it themselves and it all gets ugly, as we saw.

[SemajParlor]

I'm sure all that Chris Mack heard from the administration and some fat cat alumni after the 2011 SucKS game was concerns that we had too much "street" in the program. That made it incumbent that he then recruit "good" kids. (Nothing against Tu etc, but that was the perception) So, we have been getting "good" kids. This recruiting class will hopefully be "good" in talent too.

What are you talking about?

[profson]

In praising Warren, truTV showed the play in which Martin got the ball in the corner for a three, Warren ran at him from the extension of the foul line and his momentum carried him past the baseline, yet when the shot missed he immediately ran 94+ feet to beat everyone down court. The praise was warranted. What I saw in addition was that Martin stood like a statue to look at his shot, pouted when it missed and reacted only after Warren flashed by. It is situations like that continue to sour me on him in spite of his obvious talent. He will be a senior next year, but not a senior leader.

Myles Davis seems a good guy, but irrespective of his ability (or inability) to hit a three his physical limitations cannot warrant his presence on the court at this level of basketball other in the most limited and specialized situations.

Semaj is an NBA level talent. He sorely needs to continue to develop a mid range game. If he comes back, there is the fundamental question of whether he operates more as a PG, a SG or continues in this hybrid role that does not seem to promote offensive flow.

Even with all the negative, I have to express admiration for Stainbrook.

[Masterofreality]

Master of reality isolation basketball doesn't work in nba high school middle school or even third grade girls basketball. We didn't run that in the first half and shouldn't have in second half. If you say otherwise your just outright wrong no other way to put it

Stop it. You have to play to what your talent is. Matt Stainbrook scored 19. The rest of the team was 14-40 (35%) on FG's and 2-14 on 3's. Yeah, let's let bad shooters keep throwing up bad shots.

Of course we islolated Matt in the first half. We tried to also isolate our allegedly best offensive player Semaj at times, but he turned the ball over 7 times. When your team is overall offensively challenged, and scouting reports from the other team show it, you only have so many things you can do.

I'm not going to rehash my coaching background.

[Thor in 204]

I remember when we played Georgia. CJ went up, got fouled, and pretty much fell on his head. He goes to the line to attempt his first free throw and misses.

Sean yells, "CJ, are you hurt?"

"Naw Coach."

"Then make your f*cking free throws!"



I think Chris Mack was tough competitor as a player and himself is tough competitor as a coach. I agree that Sean Miller was able to somehow teach his players to be tougher, better than Chris Mack has so far. Maybe Chris can get some mentoring about that this off season, about further developing his leadership abilities.

[xu82]

In fairness, despite what we've seen, I do believe we have some guys already on the roster who can help from the arc next year. Justin certainly had his moments and Myles needs to be healthy and/or just clear out whatever's happening between his ears. He can shoot. I believe that. Despite what has happened recently. Confidence is critical, and he suffered on that point.

[xu82]

And Dee and Semaj can certainly help from deep with some work. I'm too lazy to look.... does Remy have decent range? Not sure there.

[The_Mack_Pack]

We have some really nice pieces on this team. I think we just need that one guy who can pull it all together and score a bucket or make a play when we desperately need it. Every great Xavier team has had that guy but no one on this roster seems to have that ability.. at least not yet. We need that missing piece (i.e. Crawford, Lavender, etc.) and I hope it finds it's way to Xavier next season. Would be nice if it was Abell or one of the freshman.

[profson]

Master of reality isolation basketball doesn't work in nba high school middle school or even third grade girls basketball. We didn't run that in the first half and shouldn't have in second half. If you say otherwise your just outright wrong no other way to put it

Sorry this is complete BS. Phil Jackson is a coaching genius because he isolated Jordan and Kobe on more than 50% of plays. It is one reason I dislike NBA basketball. The first goal of the Creighton offense is to have Wragge pull the bigs out so they can isolate McDermott. Did you not see that NCSt tried to isolate Warren but we took that away by doubling, with risks elsewhere? The announcers only mentioned it 10 times. It is coaching 101 at higher levels that you maximize match-up advantages, if you have them, by isolating. Defenses are then derived to limit isolation (zones, doubling, threatening a double). Isolation, screening and ball movement are all fundamental keys of an offense and you use them in accordance with your personnel and philosophy.

[Masterofreality]

Master of reality isolation basketball doesn't work in nba high school middle school or even third grade girls basketball. We didn't run that in the first half and shouldn't have in second half. If you say otherwise your just outright wrong no other way to put it


Sorry this is complete BS. Phil Jackson is a coaching genius because he isolated Jordan and Kobe on more than 50% of plays. It is one reason I dislike NBA basketball. The first goal of the Creighton offense is to have Wragge pull the bigs out so they can isolate McDermott. Did you not see that NCSt tried to isolate Warren but we took that away by doubling, with risks elsewhere? The announcers only mentioned it 10 times. It is coaching 101 at higher levels that you maximize match-up advantages, if you have them, by isolating. Defenses are then derived to limit isolation (zones, doubling, threatening a double). Isolation, screening and ball movement are all fundamental keys of an offense and you use them in accordance with your personnel and philosophy.

Thank you, Prof!

[nasdadjr]

Profson look who you just mentioned... Kobe, Jordan, and McDermott. Two of the best basketball players ever to live and another one who is probably going to be a top 4 scorer in NCAA history when its all said and done. Xavier does not have players of that caliber and neither does 99 percent of college basketball. Yeah when you have a generational player you can successfully run isolation but when you have a team of average players you can't do that. Oh by the way it also helped that you couldn't exactly double someone like a Kobe since you had to be aware of some little guy called Shaq or Double Jordan cause you had this scrub named Scottie Pippen as well. Xavier doesn't have anything like that and if you try and run iso with your one guy and he has no support then your iso breaks down. Hence why Carmello still doesn't have an NBA ring.

Come on you seem like you know a some basketball so please don't compare the philosophy of coaching a Jordan or Kobe to anything Xavier or anyone else in college basketball has (except Creighton).

[SemajParlor]

Profson look who you just mentioned... Kobe, Jordan, and McDermott. Two of the best basketball players ever to live and another one who is probably going to be a top 4 scorer in NCAA history when its all said and done. Xavier does not have players of that caliber and neither does 99 percent of college basketball. Yeah when you have a generational player you can successfully run isolation but when you have a team of average players you can't do that. Oh by the way it also helped that you couldn't exactly double someone like a Kobe since you had to be aware of some little guy called Shaq or Double Jordan cause you had this scrub named Scottie Pippen as well. Xavier doesn't have anything like that and if you try and run iso with your one guy and he has no support then your iso breaks down. Hence why Carmello still doesn't have an NBA ring.

Come on you seem like you know a some basketball so please don't compare the philosophy of coaching a Jordan or Kobe to anything Xavier or anyone else in college basketball has (except Creighton).

Dude, do you even follow the NBA? Shaq was not little and Pippen was far from a scrub.

[KabeX]

And Dee and Semaj can certainly help from deep with some work. I'm too lazy to look.... does Remy have decent range? Not sure there.

Apparently. Some think he'll be the best player on the team next year (assuming Semaj leaves and some say even if he doesn't). I'm all for another Jordan Crawford experience.

[nasdadjr]

One more note from tonight. Semaj definitely proved to me he is NBA ready. His three jumpers in the first half came off that little stutter step that was really nasty. His one real problem is that he doesn't shoot the jumper more because I am assuming a lack of confidence in it which I don't know why cause his jumper is decent. That is something about 10 minutes of NBA coaching would fix. He definitely has the court vision and passing ability that has been shown all season. Put him on a team that can actually support his play and you see a much different player. This years Xavier team was a collection of average to below average talent (by coaches admission when he said they were a bad shooting team) and Semaj elevated them to the NCAA tournament (along with Stainbrook he definitely shouldered some of the load as well). He is definitely an NBA talent and I would be shocked if he played another year (but hope he does cause hell we are all a little greedy lol).

[nasdadjr]

Dude, do you even follow the NBA? Shaq was not little and Pippen was far from a scrub.

Please tell me you are joking? I think Everyone can read the sarcasm a little bit.

[RoseyMuskie]

bs on myles

There's no denying he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn to end the season, but did you watch him run up the court tonight? I focused on him twice, and he was running with a gimp. Combine this with the fact that his head was in "Chuck Knoblauch mode," and voila, poor shooting.

Honestly, i think he just hit a wall. An offseason to clear his head, condition, and shoot shoot shoot, and I think he will return to form.

[profson]

Profson look who you just mentioned... Kobe, Jordan, and McDermott. Two of the best basketball players ever to live and another one who is probably going to be a top 4 scorer in NCAA history when its all said and done. Xavier does not have players of that caliber and neither does 99 percent of college basketball. Yeah when you have a generational player you can successfully run isolation but when you have a team of average players you can't do that. Oh by the way it also helped that you couldn't exactly double someone like a Kobe since you had to be aware of some little guy called Shaq or Double Jordan cause you had this scrub named Scottie Pippen as well. Xavier doesn't have anything like that and if you try and run iso with your one guy and he has no support then your iso breaks down. Hence why Carmello still doesn't have an NBA ring.

Come on you seem like you know a some basketball so please don't compare the philosophy of coaching a Jordan or Kobe to anything Xavier or anyone else in college basketball has (except Creighton).

OK, I will take it slow. There were two attempts at isolation today

- isolating Stainbrook. This was the only successful part of the offense. Look at Stainbrook's efficiency
- isolating Semaj. This was a dismal failure because they were determined not to let it happen. Dribbling around and driving against three people is not isolation. Clear outs and one on one (tough to do in college because there is no limit on zoning) is isolation. They doubled and tripled him at every entry point and he either forced the situation (7 TOs) or occasionally passed to people who missed.

Yes my examples were Kobe and Michael. But my examples of a ball screen offense would have been Reggie Miller and Ray Allen. It doesn't mean that ball screening is not a good tactic. Again, personnel and philosophy.

I agree with you on Carmelo (and would add Iverson), but not because of isolation.

[Caveat]

Myles' knee isn't right. Hasn't been for a while.

Farr -- I have no idea what happened to him. Disappeared down the stretch when the team needed minutes to spell Stainbrook and/or another option from the outside.

[xufan2434]

A big part of me is just already assuming based on past Mack recruiting classes that only possibly 3 guys coming in make big impacts at Xavier in their career. I do think Mack is a good coach at times, especially out of time outs and drawing up plays. However the 2 feet bounce pass from big to big on the perimeter has got to stop. I think we've had at least one turnover a game off that. EVEN SEMAJ AND JUSTIN DID IT TONIGHT!

Anyways I do think his biggest knock is development. I think Myles just had the yipps in his head and couldn't shake it. Semaj needs one other guy to create his own shot and I'm hoping thats Remy cause it isn't Dee or Justin. Dee is too short and Justin can't dribble. What did Remy's shot look like at Midnight Madness cause I wasn't there? I know that's Midnight Madness but he was the leading scorer

One thing I've noticed is that Tu needs to come back and teach Semaj how to split defenders when they hedge him on the pick and roll. Too many times I think he gives up on that play when he has enough talent to get to the rim.

[nasdadjr]

Yes Prof you are right personnel and Philosophy. We don't have the personnel to run that offense and Mack knows it but tried to do it anyway. I also don't have an answer to what X should have done offensively because it is hard to do anything when you don't have a perimeter game. I was sitting lower today and am not going to lie wasn't watching the NC state defense much but I don't think I recall seeing much zone from them (except first half to protect Warren) but I could be 100 percent wrong on that. What I did see though was four guys standing around while Semaj would drive and get swarmed by three defenders only to have no cutters, rebounders or outlets to dish off too hence the seven turnovers. This is also proven in the fact Stainbrook had zero assists which is amazing for a passing big man like him. Xavier literally ran what seemed like one offensive play which was one high ball screen which Semaj shook off more times than not and would just try and take his man one on one. Everyone else was literally just standing around (except Stainbrook) which is why the transition defense was so poor tonight as well.

[nasdadjr]

I think next year Semaj will definitely split that double team a lot more just like Tu

[xufan2434]

Yes Prof you are right personnel and Philosophy. We don't have the personnel to run that offense and Mack knows it but tried to do it anyway. I also don't have an answer to what X should have done offensively because it is hard to do anything when you don't have a perimeter game. I was sitting lower today and am not going to lie wasn't watching the NC state defense much but I don't think I recall seeing much zone from them (except first half to protect Warren) but I could be 100 percent wrong on that. What I did see though was four guys standing around while Semaj would drive and get swarmed by three defenders only to have no cutters, rebounders or outlets to dish off too hence the seven turnovers. This is also proven in the fact Stainbrook had zero assists which is amazing for a passing big man like him. Xavier literally ran what seemed like one offensive play which was one high ball screen which Semaj shook off more times than not and would just try and take his man one on one. Everyone else was literally just standing around (except Stainbrook) which is why the transition defense was so poor tonight as well.

This. This. This.

X's offense, and for most of the year really, was very stagnant. And when they are moving, its the very slow moving motion where they make girly bounce passes to one another.

[xubball1993]

It seems like X's losses had a similar theme this year. A combination of: inability to defend the three; inability to make the three; turnovers.

[NY44]

Not enough shooters, not enough athletes. Not enough good decision makers.

My Edit: Too many sucky shooters. The 3 is nice if you have it, but if you don't you should stop taking it. We have gone through this every year with 3-point specialists under Mack. There is no need for Myles to take 22 3s if he is only going to hit one of them. Without the 3 falling, Myles is essentially worthless to have in the game. I'm also not in this odd group of fans drinking the James Farr Kool-aid. The kid is just not that good of a shooter. He hasn't hit a 3 since the first Villanova game and his shot is plain old ugly, but every time a non-guard hits a couple of 3s people freak out and think they're amazing. Stainbrook hit more 3s than both of them in postseason play.

This all comes back to shot selection. The team isn't getting enough shots that they can reasonably make. Whether that's caused by Mack not making the right adjustments or players not being able to make shots they should, is up for debate.

[Classof1985]

Profson look who you just mentioned... Kobe, Jordan, and McDermott. Two of the best basketball players ever to live and another one who is probably going to be a top 4 scorer in NCAA history when its all said and done. Xavier does not have players of that caliber and neither does 99 percent of college basketball. Yeah when you have a generational player you can successfully run isolation but when you have a team of average players you can't do that. Oh by the way it also helped that you couldn't exactly double someone like a Kobe since you had to be aware of some little guy called Shaq or Double Jordan cause you had this scrub named Scottie Pippen as well. Xavier doesn't have anything like that and if you try and run iso with your one guy and he has no support then your iso breaks down. Hence why Carmello still doesn't have an NBA ring.

Come on you seem like you know a some basketball so please don't compare the philosophy of coaching a Jordan or Kobe to anything Xavier or anyone else in college basketball has (except Creighton).

I beg to differ. It works for UC with Kilpatrick on a regular basis. He is very good, but not Kobe or Michael.

Christon could be a player like that. But he needs to get better. And part of that is he needs to play harder on every possession.

[Muskie]

Mack best get us good enough. And quick. Next year is his sixth...

He does have over 100 wins...

[Masterofreality]

He does have over 100 wins...

....averaging 22 wins per year with only last year below 20.

[Masterofreality]

North Carolina was 19-4 under Frank McGuire the year before Dean Smith took over.

It took Smith 6 years to return to the NCAA Tournament, although there were only 24 to 36 bids back then.

[LadyMuskie]

What is our ultimate goal as a program? 20 wins a year? Is that good enough?

Is our goal to make the NCAA tournament, no matter the outcome of that game? Is that where we are? Have we lowered our expectations to that?

Or, are we still shooting for a Final Four? Is the goal to still play deep into March like it was under Matta and Miller?

I honestly don't know what the goals are anymore. I'm not even sure there are goals since we seem to just accept whatever gets thrown our way.

[LadyMuskie]

North Carolina was 19-4 under Frank McGuire the year before Dean Smith took over.

It took Smith 6 years to return to the NCAA Tournament, although there were only 24 to 36 bids back then.

So, we have to wait to see if Mack is Dean Smith, the second coming? How long do we wait for that? 1 more year? 5 more? 10 more?

[Caveat]

What is our ultimate goal as a program? 20 wins a year? Is that good enough?

Is our goal to make the NCAA tournament, no matter the outcome of that game? Is that where we are? Have we lowered our expectations to that?

Or, are we still shooting for a Final Four? Is the goal to still play deep into March like it was under Matta and Miller?

I honestly don't know what the goals are anymore. I'm not even sure there are goals since we seem to just accept whatever gets thrown our way.

ESPN tweeted this fact out yesterday --

If Xavier would have won yesterday, they would have been tied for the most NCAA Tournament wins for any school that hasn't reached a Final Four.

Getting back to the tournament (even if it was just the play-in version of the tournament) is good. It's an improvement from the 12/13 season. But the goal needs to be making a playing for and winning a national championship. That's the goal upper-level Big East teams like 'Nova, Georgetown and Marquette start the year with -- I think, at this point, that's where X needs to be as well.

[LadyMuskie]

ESPN tweeted this fact out yesterday --

If Xavier would have won yesterday, they would have been tied for the most NCAA Tournament wins for any school that hasn't reached a Final Four.

Getting back to the tournament (even if it was just the play-in version of the tournament) is good. It's an improvement from the 12/13 season. But the goal needs to be making a playing for and winning a national championship. That's the goal upper-level Big East teams like 'Nova, Georgetown and Marquette start the year with -- I think, at this point, that's where X needs to be as well.

I agree with you.

[nuts4xu]

Or, are we still shooting for a Final Four? Is the goal to still play deep into March like it was under Matta and Miller?



I believe the team's and Chris Mack's ultimate goal is to win a national championship. When Sean Miller left, he alleged one of the reasons was because he didn't feel he could win one here.

But if we don't win an NC at the end of the season, it doesn't mean our expectations our lowered. It means we didn't get there, like 345 other teams each year, and we simply work harder to get there the next season.

I am as bummed out as the next guy we lost last night and ended our season on the floor of UDump arena. Semaj's last shot for Xavier could be that ugly air ball he flung at the rim as time expired last night.

But the goals of the program haven't changed, and I don't know why anyone would think the expectations have been "lowered". No one associated with the program would describe a first round "play in game" loss as reaching our goals. The thing with goals though, you don't always reach them.

The great thing about being a fan is you can have whatever expectations you want....you are a fan! You are supposed to be irrational and fanatical. So set the bar high Ladymuskie, no one is stopping you. And this time next season, we will be dancing our way through the brackets as we did in years past.

[Masterofreality]

What is our ultimate goal as a program? 20 wins a year? Is that good enough?

Is our goal to make the NCAA tournament, no matter the outcome of that game? Is that where we are? Have we lowered our expectations to that?
.

I believe that from everything I've heard and been told that a National Championship is still the goal. But that was not a realistic goal for THIS year.

Keep bringing in high major recruits, and I believe that this coach can get us there. It never happens overnight though. I took Dean Smith 20 years to win a 'Ship.

Lady, I've been around these part a lot longer time than you, and have a shorter time left than you. My patience level is just fine though. We will get there, but it's never easy, or a straight, level road to get there.

[throwbackmuskie]

Or, are we still shooting for a Final Four? Is the goal to still play deep into March like it was under Matta and Miller?

I honestly don't know what the goals are anymore. I'm not even sure there are goals since we seem to just accept whatever gets thrown our way.

This is where you lose me about anything you say about the program. Matta only had one deep run in the NCAAs. Miller had two in five years. Mack has had two deep runs in five years. Deep runs are sweet 16 or more. Like it or not the last two years were a reconfigure year if you will. Not a rebuild but had things to clean up.

[LadyMuskie]

This is where you lose me about anything you say about the program. Matta only had one deep run in the NCAAs. Miller had two in five years. Mack has had two deep runs in five years. Deep runs are sweet 16 or more. Like it or not the last two years were a reconfigure year if you will. Not a rebuild but had things to clean up.

A reconfigure year? You say I lost you, and you're talking "reconfigure . . . not a rebuild . . . but had things to clean up"? Okey dokey!

[throwbackmuskie]

We are not rebuilding the program are we? Things had to be cleaned up, not rebuilt. My point was you want deep runs like matta, only had one and miller, well we are on the same track, for the most part.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

I believe the team's and Chris Mack's ultimate goal is to win a national championship. When Sean Miller left, he alleged one of the reasons was because he didn't feel he could win one here.

But if we don't win an NC at the end of the season, it doesn't mean our expectations our lowered. It means we didn't get there, like 345 other teams each year, and we simply work harder to get there the next season.

I am as bummed out as the next guy we lost last night and ended our season on the floor of UDump arena. Semaj's last shot for Xavier could be that ugly air ball he flung at the rim as time expired last night.

But the goals of the program haven't changed, and I don't know why anyone would think the expectations have been "lowered". No one associated with the program would describe a first round "play in game" loss as reaching our goals. The thing with goals though, you don't always reach them.

The great thing about being a fan is you can have whatever expectations you want....you are a fan! You are supposed to be irrational and fanatical. So set the bar high Ladymuskie, no one is stopping you. And this time next season, we will be dancing our way through the brackets as we did in years past.


Well said. I agree. There must be >100 teams that set their goals to be in the Final Four and even NC, but there can only be one champion. Many schools have much better recruits than X, and for us to reach our ultimate goal, we need to have many things to click at the same time, and that takes time, lots of hard work and LUCK. We have yet to recruit a true 5-star player so far, although SC is pretty close. Other schools in the BE have 5-star recruits and they are not even in the dance. We are all disappointed that the season ended too early, but overall, X didn't do so bad. Let's be supportive of our team as true fans would.

[GoMuskies]

Matta only had one, sure, but even in his first two years prior to his one deep run his teams won as many NCAA Tournament games as the program had won (combined) in the 9 seasons prior to his arrival.

And people feel a little better when you build from no Tournament, to losing in the first round, to losing in the second round to two deep NCAA Tournament runs than when you start with the deep NCAA Tournament runs and then have not been able to replicate it (or come anywhere close to replicating it) with any players you were responsible for recruiting as head coach playing the key roles.

[throwbackmuskie]

Matta only had one, sure, but even in his first two years prior to his one deep run his teams won as many NCAA Tournament games as the program had won (combined) in the 9 seasons prior to his arrival.

And people feel a little better when you build from no Tournament, to losing in the first round, to losing in the second round to two deep NCAA Tournament runs than when you start with the deep NCAA Tournament runs and then have not been able to replicate it (or come anywhere close to replicating it) with any players you were responsible for recruiting as head coach playing the key roles.

As I have said before, Mack was the lead recruiter for all of millers recruits. And after this shitstorm that blew through, I doubt many thought x would be back in the NCAA after one year, esp after jumping into a better conference.

[GoMuskies]

It's not the same thing to be lead recruiter as an assistant as to be the head man. I know all the problems are not his fault, but he's the head guy, so all the problems ARE his responsibility. I think he has the ability to get the program back to its rightful place, and I think he's done okay the past two years given the circumstances (seemingly fantastic on the recruiting trail, though recruiting is generally only truly judged in hindsight). It's just that until he actually accomplishes the goal of putting together one of those late aughts type Xavier teams as the head coach, there's going to be some lingering doubt about his ability to do so.

And he'd better hope there's not another shitstorm to blow through. He's already played his shitstorm card (fair or unfair as that statement may be).

[X-band '01]

If you look at Xavier for the past couple of decades, I can think of maybe 3 periods where Xavier had back-to-back down years:

1998-99 and 1999-00 seasons - Started with the Darnell Williams injury and a subsequent reloading year. We did get to see a sneak peek of David West.

2004-05 and 2005-06 seasons - Reloaded after The Run; also had to wade through significant injuries for Brandon Cole and Brian Thornton.

2012-13 and 2013-14 seasons - No explanation necessary, but there will be reinforcements coming for the upcoming season.

Hopefully nexr season won't present too many injury or depth issues that affected Xavier the past couple of years.