From an outsider looking in.

[Sweet16andBust]

I am a fan of "Mid-Major" basketball, whatever that means to you, and I have been watching the Musketeers since their days in the MCC. I admire that Xavier was able to build a program to "elite" status, and been able to maintain that for quite some time.

But, it appears that Xavier's philosophy of "athleticism at all costs" recruiting has created a team of high quality athletes not mentally tough or strong enough to take the team to next level. As a result, Coach Mack has become lethargic and reliant on his team's ability to play 1-on-1 to beat anyone.

In addition, the multiple altercations starting in 2009 when Xavier defaced Hinkle Fieldhouse after the controversial loss, are reflective of Mack's ability to lead these young men. For example, the incident in 2009 at Butler with the shot clock was a load of crap that wasn't fair to Xavier, but Mack running and screaming and yelling at the refs immediately after game set the standard in which the team of young men he was leading followed, as well. The end result was lack of fan safety and a destroyed locker room that cost either Xavier or Butler's AD thousands to fix.

My point being, is that this group of athletic but less-smart individuals and a coach who cultivates chaos is not working. Something has to change to reach the levels of a Duke or UNC,

but what?

[oddblob]

We're not a mid major.

[Sweet16andBust]

I said I admire that you were able to build your program to an "elite" one and maintain it. I most certainly agree you're not a mid-major, but I will also add that you definitely were a mid-major in the past while playing in the MCC.

[BandAid]

Yeeeah, the proper response by Coach Mack after the clock game was to simply shrug his shoulders, smile, and leave...:rolleyes:

I sure hope we never have a coach that is so nonchalant after such a ridiculous incident to end a game.

[waggy]

Troll.

[Sweet16andBust]

Well then you'll keep having a team with no real leadership that will never make it to the final four.

[Sweet16andBust]

I like Xavier's program, which is why I would like to see changes. Troll and honest is a fine-line based on your emotions.

[waggy]

Let me be more specific: Butler troll.

No one GAF what you think of the X program.

[BMoreX]

http://catherine.isgreat.org/gallery/plog-content/images/boxxy/captioned/12482883.jpg

[Sweet16andBust]

Why am I wrong then?

[waggy]

Why am I wrong then?

Why are you an idiot? Why are you pathetic? So many questions..

[Sweet16andBust]

Why are you an idiot? Why are you pathetic? So many questions..

Well, can we answer the one I posed, and then get to the rest of them after?

Why am I wrong?

[oddblob]

Delete topic.

[waggy]

Well, can we answer the one I posed, and then get to the rest of them after?

Why am I wrong?

The answer lies in the question, 'tard.

[Sweet16andBust]

Delete topic.

What have I said wrong to warrant deletion?


I stated my opinion and asked a question: I think Xavier has a lot of athletes but needs better leadership, what would you change?

How is this so bad?

[Sweet16andBust]

The answer lies in the question, 'tard.


I'm open to listen and engage in an actual discussion, and will openly admit if I am wrong. But so far no one has actually responded without simple derogatory statements that have nothing to do with the topic or question I posed.

[waggy]

Maybe someone who actually thinks you have a good point will come along and discuss. Good luck with that.

[Sweet16andBust]

Thank you.

[BballFan]

In addition, the multiple altercations starting in 2009 when Xavier defaced Hinkle Fieldhouse after the controversial loss

It's starts with the coach. Look at his angry tirade after an obvious right call by an official, that led to a technical foul against the Xavier bench last night.

[Dr. X]

Why am I wrong then?

Because you touch yourself at night.

[Sweet16andBust]

It's starts with the coach. Look at his angry tirade after an obvious right call by an official, that led to a technical foul against the Xavier bench last night.

I agree. That is all I was trying to say. Thank you for objectively looking at what I was saying.

Would Xavier be better with a new coach in?

[Sweet16andBust]

Because you touch yourself at night.

If that's wrong, I think none of us are right.

[BballFan]

Would Xavier be better with a new coach in?

As far as their anger issues...that might take a little while to fix even with a new coach.'
As far as being a team that can actually win games against decent teams...probably. I think Mack is a bad coach, and Xavier fans will eventually be calling for his head.

[Sweet16andBust]

Agree, nothing is overnight, but it would at least be a good first step. Despite being labeled "a Butler troll," I am actually an IU fan, and have seen what happens to good programs when they allow undisciplined behavior to continue to fester.

[BballFan]

And you have seen what happens after the right steps are taken...that begins with a coaching change. It's taken Indiana a while to right the ship, but there is no doubt that they are back.

[Sweet16andBust]

Absolutely. And it began with brining in the right coach.

[BballFan]

There's actually a lot of Xavier fans that get it now. I have seen them make posts about Mack not having control of his players. They do what they want on offense, and Mack just kind of sits back and watches. Then, we all saw that he did not have any control in during the brawl.

[BMoreX]

You two have fun.

[Sweet16andBust]

Which is a shame because Xavier has the potential to be a title contender with their talent.

[Sweet16andBust]

You two have fun.

Thanks.

[SixFig]

Two? Its probably the same person having a "conversation" with himself.

Don't worry folks, computer time at the psych ward will be over soon and time for meds

[Sweet16andBust]

Two? Its probably the same person having a "conversation" with himself.

Don't worry folks, computer time at the psych ward will be over soon and time for meds

We get unlimited use on Christmas Eve.

[BballFan]

I've been going back and reading some of the comments Xavier fans had about the game last night. It's just absolutely hilarious that some just can't take a loss without making some excuse about it. The 22 point blowout loss "happened because we didn't have Holloway and Lyons". Then they get Holloway back and lose to Long Beach "because we didn't have Lyons playing". Then they get both of them back and lose to Hawaii "because the refs were bad". LOL Take a look at you season so far Xavier. You are actually lucky that you are not a 5-6 team right now. You got lucky and barely beat a few teams this year by a couple of points. Your luck has run out...that is why you are losing! :)

[BballFan]

And then I see this from a Xavier fan that calls himself oddblob..

We have the second toughest non-conference schedule in the country. Not saying the A10 is good, but I will contend that the Big East is perennially overhyped.

Those darn experts have it all wrong by ranking us 63! LOL

[BandAid]

But, it appears that Xavier's philosophy of "athleticism at all costs" recruiting has created a team of high quality athletes not mentally tough or strong enough to take the team to next level.

Brad Redford, Andre Walker, Griffin McKenzie, Kenny Frease...yeeeah, athleticism at all costs.

And a 10-point second half comeboack on the road and 20-point comeback at home just proves how mentally weak this team is...

The last three games have been bad. But it took a brawl, onslaught of negative media attention, suspensions, excessive apologies, and I'm guessing a closed door message to tone down our personalities to disturb the mental toughness of our players. Don't worry though, our men will get their swag back, so you can go back to playing with yourself...

http://torontoist.com/attachments/toronto_davidf/2008_5_06_dinghy.jpg
Quit playing with your dinghy!

[BballFan]

Brad Redford, Andre Walker, Griffin McKenzie, Kenny Frease...yeeeah, athleticism at all costs.

And a 10-point second half comeboack on the road and 20-point comeback at home just proves how mentally weak this team is...

The last three games have been bad. But it took a brawl, onslaught of negative media attention, suspensions, excessive apologies, and I'm guessing a closed door message to tone down our personalities to disturb the mental toughness of our players. Don't worry though, our men will get their swag back, so you can go back to playing with yourself...

Hahaha Wow! How many excuses can we hear? Why was the " #8 team in the country" or "final four contender" down by 20 points in the first place??

[BandAid]

Hahaha Wow! How many excuses can we hear? Why was the " #8 team in the country" or "final four contender" down by 20 points in the first place??

Wow indeed! Talk about a straw man argument. We were talking about the team:

a. supposedly being made entirely of "athletes at any cost" and
b. not being mentally tough

My post had nothing to do with being a final four contender. Therefore, I was not making excuses for the losses.

You want to know why we were down 20 points? We were playing very badly.
You want to know why we lost the last 3 games? For the most part we played very badly.


The last three games have been bad. But it took a brawl, onslaught of negative media attention, suspensions, excessive apologies, and I'm guessing a closed door message to tone down our personalities to disturb the mental toughness of our players. Don't worry though, our men will get their swag back, so you can go back to playing with yourself...


Not making excuses for the losses, but a possible explanation for the team's current mental state.

Apples and oranges.

[paulxu]

Here's a pop quiz for you guys after you get your room.
See if you know what these are:

76-68
66-55
73-71
70-44
66-47
70-68

[Sweet16andBust]

Xavier is many a good thing, many, many, a very good thing. Intelligent on the court and mentally tough are not one of those things...As long as Mack is there, they will never get past the elite 8. Bob Knight would have had those dudes whipped.

[BandAid]

In addition, the multiple altercations starting in 2009 when Xavier defaced Hinkle Fieldhouse after the controversial loss, are reflective of Mack's ability to lead these young men. For example, the incident in 2009 at Butler with the shot clock was a load of crap that wasn't fair to Xavier, but Mack running and screaming and yelling at the refs immediately after game set the standard in which the team of young men he was leading followed, as well. The end result was lack of fan safety and a destroyed locker room that cost either Xavier or Butler's AD thousands to fix.



Xavier is many a good thing, many, many, a very good thing. Intelligent on the court and mentally tough are not one of those things...As long as Mack is there, they will never get past the elite 8. Bob Knight would have had those dudes whipped.

So Mack's one outburst at the clock game set a terribly low standard that our players follow (thus leading to our players being mentally weak and unintelligent), but Knight's antics are to be lauded and praised for whipping players into shape?

But it's ok, because, "Xavier is many a good thing, many, many, a very good thing."

[Cheesehead]

It must be douchebag week on the board.

[Sweet16andBust]

It must be douchebag week on the board.

Creative....

[Cheesehead]

Creative....

Thank you. Just call it as I see it.

Merry Christmas.

[Sweet16andBust]

Thank you. Just call it as I see it.

Merry Christmas.

I'm jewish, but I won't pretend that this isn't a very big and important day for most everyone. And, in the spirit of christmas: Merry Christmas to you, Go Pack Go! Rodgers is on fire tonight!

[paulxu]

Well, I guess everybody flunked the pop quiz.
And they are suppose to be good St. Louis fans.

[Sweet16andBust]

St. Louis fan, me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8hdKnr7rpE

[paulxu]

Well, your quiz is a lot easier.

80-65

[Sweet16andBust]

I'll take living in the past for 200, Alex.

[BballFan]

Sorry, the only answer left is:

Living in the past for "priceless"

:D

[BballFan]

Here is my quiz...

Where is Xavier??? :eek:

Where is Saint Louis? :)

AP Top 25
RK TEAM
1 Syracuse (54)
2 Ohio State (5)
3 Kentucky (4)
4 Louisville (2)
5 North Carolina
6 Baylor
7 Duke
8 Missouri
9 Connecticut
10 Florida
11 Wisconsin
12 Georgetown
13 Indiana
14 Marquette
15 Mississippi State
16 Michigan State
17 Kansas
18 Michigan
19 UNLV
20 Murray State
21 Creighton
22 Pittsburgh
23 Virginia
24 Harvard
25 San Diego State

Others receiving votes: Kansas State 105, Illinois 70, Saint Louis 55, Gonzaga 48, Xavier 42, Ohio 20, Stanford 10, Wichita State 9, Texas A&M 3, Alabama 2, Wagner 1

[chico]

I'll take living in the past for 200, Alex.

I love it. An IU fan comes out from hibernation because his team is finally relevant again. Feeling your oats - good for you, chief.

As to your point about leadership, I think a senior guard who puts a team on his back and cans big 3 after big 3 against SEC and Big 10 competition in crunch time is pretty much a standard definition of leadership.

And if you are an outsider, maybe you need a little education about just how big the rivalry between UC and XU is. Certainly not condoning what happened, but it's so easy for those who know little about this series to sit back and take pot shots. It's lazy, though, and does nothing to help your credibility.

The funny thing is, you ask for answers to your questions but when you get answers you try to brush them off as "excuses" which tells me you really didn't come here for any type of meaningful discussion.

Good luck to you and your Hoosiers the rest of the season, but if you do happen to run into us come March, you will likely receive an education about leadership when it matters most from the team in blue.

[BballFan]

And if you are an outsider, maybe you need a little education about just how big the rivalry between UC and XU is

Yeah, forget about how big the IU vs Purdue rivalry is because that's a classy rivalry! Forget about how big the North Carolina vs Duke rivalry is because that's a classy rivalry! etc.....

[chico]

Yeah, forget about how big the IU vs Purdue rivalry is because that's a classy rivalry! Forget about how big the North Carolina vs Duke rivalry is because that's a classy rivalry! etc.....

Google "UNC Duke 1961" and see what comes up. Classy, indeed!

I love the SLU guy chiming in with such knowledge and insight. When was the last time your program was relevant? It is refreshing to have someone in this league that might make the tourney besides us and Temple, but you might want to win something first (see: A-10 standing for the past 5 years) before chirping so loudly.

[BballFan]

Google "UNC Duke 1961" and see what comes up.

I'll take living way way way in the irrelevant past for "priceless" Alex.

[chico]

I'll take living way way way in the irrelevant past for "priceless" Alex.

And I'll take "bringing up historical rivalries then making stupid Jeopardy analogies when confronted with actual history" for whatever "priceless" means.

Oh, and good luck with the #28 ranking. You have now passed Dayton as a program. Now come back when you win a game in March.

[BballFan]

Stupid me...I should have known that a Xavier fan would point to something that happened 50 years ago as being relevant to something that happened...hmmmmm....about 2 weeks ago.

[Cheesehead]

And I'll take "bringing up historical rivalries then making stupid Jeopardy analogies when confronted with actual history" for whatever "priceless" means.

Oh, and good luck with the #28 ranking. You have now passed Dayton as a program. Now come back when you win a game in March.

St. Louis calendar does not include the month of March.

[chico]

Stupid me...I should have known that a Xavier fan would point to something that happened 50 years ago as being relevant to something that happened...hmmmmm....about 2 weeks ago.

It's not relevant, but since you want to hold out Duke-UNC as some sort of white-gloved tea it was apparent you were uninformed.

You've shown your ignorance, and I've had my fun, but you're growing tiresome. Like I said, we'll talk again once you win in March. And not in the CBI.

[BballFan]

It's not relevant, but since you want to hold out Duke-UNC as some sort of white-gloved tea...I thought I would bring up what happened a half a century ago to justify the UC Xavier brawl and try to make it seem somewhat relevant.

Xavier has obviously fallen from grace. Saint Louis is the best team in the A10 this year and will represent the conference in tournament play better than Xavier has ever done. Xavier has never been to a Final Four, and that is where our coach is leading us.

[Cheesehead]

Xavier has obviously fallen from grace. Saint Louis is the best team in the A10 this year and will represent the conference in tournament play better than Xavier has ever done. Xavier has never been to a Final Four, and that is where our coach is leading us.

insert spit take here.....thanks for the laugh

[DC Muskie]

Anthony Bonner is a pussy.

[Sweet16andBust]

And if you are an outsider, maybe you need a little education about just how big the rivalry between UC and XU is. Certainly not condoning what happened, but it's so easy for those who know little about this series to sit back and take pot shots. It's lazy, though, and does nothing to help your credibility

This was interesting to read:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/6814881/

[Sweet16andBust]

Looks like they are getting back on track!

[RealDeal]

Xavier has obviously fallen from grace. Saint Louis is the best team in the A10 this year and will represent the conference in tournament play better than Xavier has ever done. Xavier has never been to a Final Four, and that is where our coach is leading us.

How's that coming along? You guys win a conference game yet? Clown.

[BballFan]

How's that coming along? You guys win a conference game yet? Clown.

Well let's see...get one hand out of your pocket because you're going to need it. They have lost 2 games out of 4, so you tell me...have they won a conference game yet?

[boozehound]

Well let's see...get one hand out of your pocket because you're going to need it. They have lost 2 games out of 4, so you tell me...have they won a conference game yet?

Pretty sweet 2am posting binge on another (not really even rival) team's board. Struck out at the bars last night, huh?

[RealDeal]

Well let's see...get one hand out of your pocket because you're going to need it. They have lost 2 games out of 4, so you tell me...have they won a conference game yet?

Awesome! So 2-2 in the A10 is the best team in the A10 and well on the way to a final four? Congrats you smack talking idiot.