Scathing article on Mike Brown

[boozehound]

Horrible Bosses: The Bengals' Mike Brown (http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/6866409/horrible-bosses-cincinnati-bengals-owner-mike-brown)

This article does a great job of pointing out what a loser Mike Brown really is.

Favorite quote: "Brown's football career peaked upon birth. He was born the son of legendary football genius Paul Brown and has done zilch to remind anybody of him since."

It also really made me think. I think I am done with the Bengals, at least until they get new ownership. Anybody else out there feel this way?

Unfortunately they won't get new ownership until Mike Brown dies, and even then it will just be his idiot daughter.

Bengals fans really are screwed. They have the worst owner in the NFL. An owner that is so bad that it almost guarantees that there will be no success under his reign of terror. So what can we do? Stop following the NFL? "Pick" a new team? I like watching football so I don't want to stop following it, and just "Picking a new team" feels wrong.

Being a Bengals fan sucks.

[Smails]

For 5 minutes I became a Rick Reilly fan while reading this article. The more national stink thrown towards the Brown family, the better. I can hust hear Mikey's reaction to this article...."why is the national media picking on us Katie?"

Now that I've read the article, I'll go back to thinking that Rick Reilly licks monkey nuts.

[Porkopolis]

I won't give up on the Bengals, but they also won't get a dime of my money as long as the Brown/Blackburn clan is in charge.

[Juice]

I won't give up on the Bengals, but they also won't get a dime of my money as long as the Brown/Blackburn clan is in charge.

Pretty much my stance as well. I will watch them on TV (if they aren't blacked out), but I won't buy any merchandise or pay for any tickets to attend a game.

And Rick Reilly is still the most over paid, awful writer there is out there. They guy has been mailing it in for 5 plus years. He has re-used articles he wrote for SI on ESPN.com. You can only read about the blind kid with down syndrome who scored a TD because the other team let him so many times.

[Kahns Krazy]

In other breaking news, Hitler was bad.

[Xavgrad08]

Mike Brown is a terrible owner who needs to understand how to delegate. Mike wants to be involved in personnel decisions, and he has demonstrated that he is terrible in that. The Bengals need to increase scouting, hire a GM and let the head coach do his job without taking suggestions from the idiot owner. Also, the bengals should re-evaluate the Medical staff after last years Antonio Bryant signing.

I understand that the Bengals will make money even if they have a losing season. Part of that is due to the stadium deal they got. However, Mike should atleast try to put a decent product on the field.

[drudy23]

Mike wants to be involved in personnel decisions, and he has demonstrated that he is terrible in that. The Bengals need to increase scouting, hire a GM and let the head coach do his job without taking suggestions from the idiot owner.



You think? Interesting.

[PM Thor]

I've posed this question to a couple of my friends and have gotten pretty much the same answer every time.

If Cincy was guaranteed a new team with new ownership, would you give up no NFL in town for the next 7 years for that to happen? What about 10?

I HATE dayton.

[wkrq59]

I've posed this question to a couple of my friends and have gotten pretty much the same answer every time.If Cincy was guaranteed a new team with new ownership, would you give up no NFL in town for the next 7 years for that to happen? What about 10?
I HATE dayton.

PM,
If the Bengals leave, Cincinnati will NEVER, REPEAT NEVER EVER EVER EVER get another NFL franchise. Even a minor league football franchise affiliated with the NFL if there is such a thing. That came from a former NFL commissioner and later from his top lieutenant still living, and two of the more influential owners all at a cocktail party one night before a super bowl. The question now is whether it's worth financially mortgaging our own and our kids and their kids futures to keep supporting the crap being disseminated each Sunday in season at PBS? As long as there are Bob Bedinghaus types around, and they will be with us forever, we'll never find out. And I don't like to use the word never, either. But I have because it's the only appropriate word.:eek:

[boozehound]

PM,
If the Bengals leave, Cincinnati will NEVER, REPEAT NEVER EVER EVER EVER get another NFL franchise. Even a minor league football franchise affiliated with the NFL if there is such a thing. That came from a former NFL commissioner and later from his top lieutenant still living, and two of the more influential owners all at a cocktail party one night before a super bowl. The question now is whether it's worth financially mortgaging our own and our kids and their kids futures to keep supporting the crap being disseminated each Sunday in season at PBS? As long as there are Bob Bedinghaus types around, and they will be with us forever, we'll never find out. And I don't like to use the word never, either. But I have because it's the only appropriate word.:eek:

Why would the NFL be so determined to keep a franchise out of Cincinnati? Particularly if we already had a stadium built.

[Fred Garvin 2.0]

In other breaking news, Hitler was bad.

Marge Schott from the grave: Mike Brown was good in the beginning.

[Fred Garvin 2.0]

Marge Schott from the grave: Mike Brown was good in the beginning.

Also, I've decided to chronicle my life as a Bengals fan. Calling it "Mein Kamph."

[bleedXblue]

Most frustrating part of this is that he considers himself a great business person and I've heard more than one media outlet report this as well.

Who in the hell can't make money in the NFL ?

All great leaders and business owners know how to surround themselves with good people to help make their products thrive.

All it would take is Brown saying, "you know Katie, our track record isnt very good". "Maybe we should try a different approach". "Maybe we should hire a GM and a few more scouts". Lets give that a try and see how that works for us........

Brown and family have more money that they will ever need. The franchise is worth what...500MM ?

Spend a couple million and bring in some football people. You suck and can't win with your current personnel and strategy.

Bengals wont get one Fu%^&ing dime from me until they change.

[vee4xu]

It goes to show that the genius gene can in fact skip at least on generation. I don't have a dog in the Mike Brown fight, but I do know enough to understand that Paul Brown was a football genius and a business visionary by starting up the Bengals when Modell gave him the bums rush in Cleveland.

Paul Brown is now being called the first father of the West Coast offense and he won at absolutely every level. Mike on the other hand is the father of running the cheapest professional sports franchise. He doesn't know much, but he does know how to run a pro franchise into the ground and fleece the county while doing so.

[GuyFawkes38]

Why would the NFL be so determined to keep a franchise out of Cincinnati? Particularly if we already had a stadium built.

A combo of market size and nearby NFL teams (Indy and Cleveland). I don't doubt that if the Bengals leave Cincy, the city will never get another team. But the Bengals were never a threat to leave and they won't be. Local governments can't afford stadiums.

The bigger point is who cares if they leave. PBS is used 10 days a year. It's relatively not important to downtown or the city. It would be a much, much, much bigger deal if the Reds left.

The bengals earn as much revenue as about 4 Walmarts. I did the math on a different thread. The NFL might a cultural giant, but the revenue stream is relatively meh.

Most of that revenue goes to a small group of people (most of them spend less then half the year in Cincy).

Yep, that's what the county spent a half billion dollars on. Brilliant.

[mohr5150]

A combo of market size and nearby NFL teams (Indy and Cleveland). I don't doubt that if the Bengals leave Cincy, the city will never get another team. But the Bengals were never a threat to leave and they won't be. Local governments can't afford stadiums.

The bigger point is who cares if they leave. PBS is used 10 days a year. It's relatively not important to downtown or the city. It would be a much, much, much bigger deal if the Reds left.
The bengals earn as much revenue as about 4 Walmarts. I did the math on a different thread. The NFL might a cultural giant, but the revenue stream is relatively meh.

Most of that revenue goes to a small group of people (most of them spend less then half the year in Cincy).

Yep, that's what the county spent a half billion dollars on. Brilliant.

That's what made the vote for the stadiums so frustrating. If they would have split the vote, I would have, no doubt, voted for the baseball stadium and not the football stadium. But because they put both stadiums in the same measure on the ballot, I voted for it to keep the Reds here. I couldn't believe there weren't lawsuits against this issue due to it being wrong to have them both together on the ballot. I haven't attended one game at PBS and don't plan on it any time soon. I find the Bengals as comic relief.

[XU 87]

[QUOTE=bleedXblue;282965]Most frustrating part of this is that he considers himself a great business person and I've heard more than one media outlet report this as well.

Who in the hell can't make money in the NFL ?

QUOTE]

I concur. Mike knows how to make buckets of money by running a government subsidized monopoly where he shares revenues with his competitors. Because of tv, he has a guaranteed revenue stream, regardless if has a good team. If he had to run a business in the real world where he actually has to compete and produce a product that consumers want, he would have been out of business 10 years ago.

[Xavier]

I've posed this question to a couple of my friends and have gotten pretty much the same answer every time.

If Cincy was guaranteed a new team with new ownership, would you give up no NFL in town for the next 7 years for that to happen? What about 10?

I HATE dayton.

No chance.

[wkrq59]

In answer to Boozehound, even with a stadium, no chance. The people who run the NFL are so concerned about image, they would never return here if they had a choice. Cincinnati is the unwanted stepchild of the NFL :logo:

[boozehound]

Most frustrating part of this is that he considers himself a great business person and I've heard more than one media outlet report this as well.

Who in the hell can't make money in the NFL ?

All great leaders and business owners know how to surround themselves with good people to help make their products thrive.

All it would take is Brown saying, "you know Katie, our track record isnt very good". "Maybe we should try a different approach". "Maybe we should hire a GM and a few more scouts". Lets give that a try and see how that works for us........

Brown and family have more money that they will ever need. The franchise is worth what...500MM ?

Spend a couple million and bring in some football people. You suck and can't win with your current personnel and strategy.

Bengals wont get one Fu%^&ing dime from me until they change.

Mike Brown is the scum of the earth and a complete fraud.

Let's look at Mike Brown's Career:

1. Gifted the Cincinnati Bengals, relatively fresh off a Super Bowl appearance
2. Sets new records for NFL futility

It's easy to be a 'good businessman' when you are given a business with a continuous revenue stream regardless of your performance. The only good business deal he can really claim credit for is the stadium deal.

I wonder what the real NFL owners say about Mike Brown when he's not around. He has to be the laughing stock of the league.

[LutherRackleyRulez]

Who's the worst human being.....

Hitler????

http://www.slippingthroughmyfingers.com/wp-content/gallery/eva-braun/article-1364687-0D8C14B7000005DC-92_634x441.jpg
btw...that's Hitler's lady friend -- Eva Braun...he liked to urinate on her.


or Mike "Mikey Boy" Brown....

http://www.bengalsgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/jolly-fool.jpg
***laughin' all the way to the bank....



Me......Mike is the worst!!!

[blobfan]

I concur. Mike knows how to make buckets of money by running a government subsidized monopoly where he shares revenues with his competitors. Because of tv, he has a guaranteed revenue stream, regardless if has a good team. If he had to run a business in the real world where he actually has to compete and produce a product that consumers want, he would have been out of business 10 years ago.
This

Mike Brown is the scum of the earth and a complete fraud.

Let's look at Mike Brown's Career:

1. Gifted the Cincinnati Bengals, relatively fresh off a Super Bowl appearance
2. Sets new records for NFL futility

It's easy to be a 'good businessman' when you are given a business with a continuous revenue stream regardless of your performance. The only good business deal he can really claim credit for is the stadium deal.I wonder what the real NFL owners say about Mike Brown when he's not around. He has to be the laughing stock of the league.

And that only counts if you call a shady deal a good one, which I do not. I refuse to believe there wasn't some kind of quid pro quo between Bedinghaus and the Bengals. A 'you do what you have to to get us this deal, even if it means lying to your constituents, and if it comes back on you we'll make sure you have a job.'

[nuts4xu]

Mike Brown is so bad to work for, Mike Vick actually WANTED to play for him.

Allegedly.....

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2011/8/17/2369430/michael-vick-gq-philadelphia-eagles-cincinnati-bengals-buffalo-bills

[bleedXblue]

When are the people of Cincinnati and the fans of the Bengals going to actually do something about it ?

Why not stage a boycott of some type ?

Something to send a clear signal to Brown that drastic change is needed and the fans are no longer going to put up with it.

Seriously.

If the Bengals win 3 games this year, it will be a miracle.

[nuts4xu]

When are the people of Cincinnati and the fans of the Bengals going to actually do something about it ?

Why not stage a boycott of some type ?

Something to send a clear signal to Brown that drastic change is needed and the fans are no longer going to put up with it.

Seriously.

Because it isn't worth it...it won't work for Mike Brown.

Your suggestion assumes Mike Brown has pride, shame, or common sense. He has none of these, and a boycott will not help our cause.

Mike Brown will make a proffit whether the stadium is filled or they play in front of 65,000 empty seats. He may say he cares about what the fans think, but he clearly does not. If he gave 2 shits about what people think of him, he would have made changes long ago.

If he hasn't been shamed into doing things differently by now, he never will.

We are stuck with him as long as he is alive and breathing.

[Kahns Krazy]

http://www.whodeyrevolution.com/.a/6a00e550080ede88330154348710a5970c-800wi

[Kahns Krazy]

http://www.whodeyrevolution.com/.a/6a00e550080ede88330154345bec64970c-800wi

[Kahns Krazy]

http://www.whodeyrevolution.com/.a/6a00e550080ede88330154343906ce970c-500wi

[Fred Garvin 2.0]

It goes to show that the genius gene can in fact skip at least on generation. I don't have a dog in the Mike Brown fight, but I do know enough to understand that Paul Brown was a football genius and a business visionary by starting up the Bengals when Modell gave him the bums rush in Cleveland.

Paul Brown is now being called the first father of the West Coast offense and he won at absolutely every level. Mike on the other hand is the father of running the cheapest professional sports franchise. He doesn't know much, but he does know how to run a pro franchise into the ground and fleece the county while doing so.

PB was an innovator, but Sid Gillman is the father of the West Coast offense.

[JimmyTwoTimes37]

http://whodeyrevolution.typepad.com/whodeyrevolution/images/2008/09/17/whodeyrevolution_a_manifesto_for__2.jpg

[Cheesehead]

As an outsider and as a person who has now lived in this city for 20 years, I have to say I feel sorry for this city and the fact that we (yes, we) have to put up with such a pathetic franchise.

Now, I am and always will be a huge Packer fan but I do consider myself to be a Cincinnatian at this point and I want the teams to do well here (except for UC). I gave up on the Bengals about 10 years ago. The only way I would attend a game is if someone gave me free tickets. I plan on investing very little time & energy in the Bengals.

Go Pack!

[XUFan09]

This is why it's nice to be a Rams fan. There are at least ups along with the downs.

[bleedXblue]

The city should sponsor another NFL franchise.

Seriously.

MB got a sweet deal and hasn't held up his end of the deal.

I think Indy or TN would make a lot of sense.

We cant root for Cleveland or Pittsburgh....

My vote goes to Indy.....although I love to visit Nashville

[Fireball]

The Bengals are my team, and it sucks that we have to deal with an owner as grossly incompetent as Mike Brown. I can't believe that he isn't phased at all by all the criticism he gets, locally and now nationally. As much as people are frustrated with Marvin Lewis as a coach, it seems apparent that what little success that the Bengals have had since he took over is due to him fighting the good fight with Brown to get things run in some small way differently.

There are things I accept as a Bengals fan:
1) The Bengals are probably going to suck
2) If the Bengals are actually good for a year, it's a fluke and not going to last
3) #1 and #2 are going to be the case as long as Mike Brown is the owner

So, I enjoy what little success the Bengals have when they have it and wait for Mike Brown to no longer be the owner. I have hope that Katie will change things when she takes over. As a Bengals fan, that's about all I have. I'm not going to pick another team. The Bengals are my team. Either way, I haven't paid to go to a Bengals game ever and don't see that changing anytime soon. I'll still watch, when they are on, but that's about it.

[bleedXblue]

The Bengals are my team, and it sucks that we have to deal with an owner as grossly incompetent as Mike Brown. I can't believe that he isn't phased at all by all the criticism he gets, locally and now nationally. As much as people are frustrated with Marvin Lewis as a coach, it seems apparent that what little success that the Bengals have had since he took over is due to him fighting the good fight with Brown to get things run in some small way differently.

There are things I accept as a Bengals fan:
1) The Bengals are probably going to suck
2) If the Bengals are actually good for a year, it's a fluke and not going to last
3) #1 and #2 are going to be the case as long as Mike Brown is the owner

So, I enjoy what little success the Bengals have when they have it and wait for Mike Brown to no longer be the owner. I have hope that Katie will change things when she takes over. As a Bengals fan, that's about all I have. I'm not going to pick another team. The Bengals are my team. Either way, I haven't paid to go to a Bengals game ever and don't see that changing anytime soon. I'll still watch, when they are on, but that's about it.

I just can't give them my heart anymore. It's been ripped out and stomped on so many times, I can't let it happen anymore.

I'll be glad when they win, but those brief moments of satisfaction are quickly extinguished by Mike Brown and his incompetence.

He's hated by all and supported by no one.........

The dude signed and paid 7 MM 2 years ago to Antonio Bryant. He never practiced or played 1 down.

Brown could have used that money for lots of productive things....a GM and scouts which are desperately needed.

Does he really think he knows football and has the ability to judge talent ?

Klingler
Akili Smith
Kijana Carter


The list goes on and on........

[Fireball]

Does he really think he knows football and has the ability to judge talent ?

Klingler
Akili Smith
Kijana Carter


The list goes on and on........

To be sure, Brown does not know how to judge football talent, and I will absolutely fault him for drafting some bad players, with Klingler at the top of that list. They have also had some tremendous bad luck. Ki-Jana is a prime case of that.

With Ki-Jana, if the Bengals hadn't drafted him #1, someone would have. Quite honestly, his career was ruined by the ACL tear in his first preseason game. We have no idea what he would have been without that injury.

On Akili, I fault the Bengals more for not taking the trade from the Saints than for drafting Akili. Again, he would have gone very high in the draft if the Bengals hadn't taken him. The stupid thing was that they could have had 5 or 6 draft picks instead.

[Juice]

On Akili, I fault the Bengals more for not taking the trade from the Saints than for drafting Akili. Again, he would have gone very high in the draft if the Bengals hadn't taken him. The stupid thing was that they could have had 5 or 6 draft picks instead.

Or not trading Chad when the Redskins allegedly offered 2 first round draft picks

[bleedXblue]

Or trading Carson and getting at least something for him.

Seattle is in a bad way with QB spot. Carson could reaquaint with Carroll. You cant tell me Carson isnt worth a 1st rounder.....

[SM#24]

With Ki-Jana, if the Bengals hadn't drafted him #1, someone would have. Quite honestly, his career was ruined by the ACL tear in his first preseason game. We have no idea what he would have been without that injury.

I often hear Ki-Jana's name when people start mentioning draft busts. I cannot bring myself to label as a bust someone whose career was destroyed by injury.

[bleedXblue]

There have been a lot of players with torn ACL's that have come back and done well in the NFL.

I think Carter went on to play for 2-3 addtional teams and really did not do much at all.

Didn't the Bengals trade up to get the first pick ?

I'm almost sure of it.

[XU 87]

It's just not that Mike is incompetent and won't do the things necessary to win, but adding to this is that he is surrounded by incompetent people. His personnel dept. consists, among others, of his brother Pete, who I am told is an odd dude who doesn't travel to watch players. Another scout is his son, Paul III, who I've heard several crazy stories about. And then let's not forget the former Moeller AD who is also in the personnel dept.

I doubt that New England or Pittsburgh, or any other NFL team that actually tries to win, go looking for high school athletic directors to be in charge of their scouting.

Unfortunately, Cincinnati has an owner who doesn't care what the city thinks of him and doesn't care what his fans think of him. Mike Brown apparently doesn't care that he is absolutely despised. On top of that, he feels he owes no duty or obligation to either the city or Bengal fans to try to put a winning team on the field. I was once told that Brown and his family have the attitude that "Cincinnati should be grateful that they even have a team."

It's really a shame that Cincinnati has done so much for Mike Brown and he doesn't feel he has to do anything in return. Maybe "pathetic" is a better word. But I really don't know how the guy can look at himself in the mirror every morning.

[Kahns Krazy]

I often hear Ki-Jana's name when people start mentioning draft busts. I cannot bring myself to label as a bust someone whose career was destroyed by injury.

I wouldn't say draft bust, but he is a member of the Bengals circle of draft dissapointments. After a while, you have to wonder why so many Bengals high draft picks get hurt. Ki-Jana was notable, but in the last decade you've had Chris Perry, Pollock, Thurman, Henry, Frostee, Kenny Irons, Keith Rivers, Andre Smith each with time on the IR in their first couple seasons.

[Kahns Krazy]

Or trading Carson and getting at least something for him.

Seattle is in a bad way with QB spot. Carson could reaquaint with Carroll. You cant tell me Carson isnt worth a 1st rounder.....

I can't say I understand the mechanics of NFL trades well enough to understand what is driving the decision to let Palmer retire as opposed to trading him.

From what I can see, Palmer was scheduled to make $11.5 million this year, and he's 6 years into a 9 year contract that a $15 million signing bonus. I don't know if the Bengals get to claw back 1/3rd of that bonus if Palmer just quits or not. If they do, that would go a long way to explaining why they would let him retire before they would trade him.

I don't think the Bengals care much about salary caps, so I don't think that's the issue, but there would be some salary cap impact with the bonus if they traded him, I believe.

[bleedXblue]

I can't say I understand the mechanics of NFL trades well enough to understand what is driving the decision to let Palmer retire as opposed to trading him.

From what I can see, Palmer was scheduled to make $11.5 million this year, and he's 6 years into a 9 year contract that a $15 million signing bonus. I don't know if the Bengals get to claw back 1/3rd of that bonus if Palmer just quits or not. If they do, that would go a long way to explaining why they would let him retire before they would trade him.

I don't think the Bengals care much about salary caps, so I don't think that's the issue, but there would be some salary cap impact with the bonus if they traded him, I believe.

Bottom line is that Brown doesn't know when to cut his losses.

He would rather Palmer rot away and gain nothing than trade him now and get some decent value for him.

You can't bring Palmer back at this point b/c he has publicly stated he doesn't want to be part of the team.

If another team is willing to pay his salary and take him, let it happen and get some draft picks for it.

He's traded other players that didn't want to be here....Corey Dillon comes to mind.

[Kahns Krazy]

Bottom line is that Brown doesn't know when to cut his losses.

He would rather Palmer rot away and gain nothing than trade him now and get some decent value for him.

You can't bring Palmer back at this point b/c he has publicly stated he doesn't want to be part of the team.

If another team is willing to pay his salary and take him, let it happen and get some draft picks for it.
He's traded other players that didn't want to be here....Corey Dillon comes to mind.

Bottom line is that you can't possibly know what the bottom line is. Based on how MB is acting, I think there is a strong possibility that Carson's contract includes a stipulation that unamortized bonus money gets paid back if Carson retires. I certainly wouldn't have given Carson a $15 million signing bonus on a 9 year contract if it didn't have some sort of penalty for not fulfilling his side of the contract.

Second, I don't really think there are teams willing to pay Carson's salary and give draft picks. Carson's current contract would make him the 6th highest paid QB in the league, according to this linkl (http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/quarterback/)
Carson used some heavy late game stat padding last year to get up to the 19th rated QB in the league. Add in the ongoing injury problems, a propensity to throw some really momentum crushing interceptions and now a questionable dedication to the game, I just don't see teams lining up to mortgage their future draft picks for an over priced, injury prone has-been.


Besides, based on draft history, I don't think extra draft picks bring any value to the Bengals.

[dc_x]

Second, I don't really think there are teams willing to pay Carson's salary and give draft picks. Carson's current contract would make him the 6th highest paid QB in the league, according to this linkl (http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/quarterback/)

Yeah, I think Carson sits out the 2011 season and hopes that Dalton establishes himself as the starter. Then he reports in 2012 and the Bengals will be forced to trade him because Mike Brown will not pay $15m for a backup QB.

[chico]

There have been a lot of players with torn ACL's that have come back and done well in the NFL.

I think Carter went on to play for 2-3 addtional teams and really did not do much at all.

Didn't the Bengals trade up to get the first pick ?

I'm almost sure of it.

Yes, the Bengals traded up to get him. The trouble with Carter was that he was a north/south runner with no ability to cut. He was so good in college because he played behind an offensive line that was so good you could run straight for 15 yards before anyone touched you.

87's right about Mike Brown - he has lucked into the one area of business where incompetence still nets you millions of dollars.. It is the ultimate brick wall trying to say anything about what the Bengals should do, because Mike Brown will do what he wants, when he wants, without regard for anyone but him and his family. He does not care about fans, he does not care about players. What we need is someone like Mark Cuban to come in and offer him so much money he has to take the deal, because the only thing he listens to is money.

Someone probably posted this here a while ago, but I still laugh at it every time I see it.

Mike Brown and Art Rooney (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybQi4H7E0xk)

[bleedXblue]

Bottom line is that you can't possibly know what the bottom line is. Based on how MB is acting, I think there is a strong possibility that Carson's contract includes a stipulation that unamortized bonus money gets paid back if Carson retires. I certainly wouldn't have given Carson a $15 million signing bonus on a 9 year contract if it didn't have some sort of penalty for not fulfilling his side of the contract.

Second, I don't really think there are teams willing to pay Carson's salary and give draft picks. Carson's current contract would make him the 6th highest paid QB in the league, according to this linkl (http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/quarterback/)
Carson used some heavy late game stat padding last year to get up to the 19th rated QB in the league. Add in the ongoing injury problems, a propensity to throw some really momentum crushing interceptions and now a questionable dedication to the game, I just don't see teams lining up to mortgage their future draft picks for an over priced, injury prone has-been.


Besides, based on draft history, I don't think extra draft picks bring any value to the Bengals.

I think part of Carson's poor play is that he was fed up with the organization and wanted out. I'm not a huge Palmer fan (mostly b/c he's not a leader) but I do give him the benefit of the doubt that he had to endure a lot of BS (Ocho Cinco and Owens last year) and a lot of distractions throughout his career here.

I think he still has some good football left in him and a fresh start would likley help him a lot.

If another team gave up their first round pick for Palmer, thats an instant savings for that club not having to pay first round draft pick money the following year. i think it's close to a wash from a $$ perspective.

Brown could work something out that makes sense for all involved. The longer he waits the more questionable Palmers value becomes. Then again, if a playoff team loses a premier QB to injury early this year, Palmer's value could sky rocket.

[Fireball]

On Carson, I don't blame Brown for letting him rot because I'm not sure how tradable he actually is. Carson had a bad year last year, and he asked to be traded in a lockout year when he couldn't be traded during the offseason. He would have had almost no chance to start with a new team because he would have gotten there late in training camp with little to no time to learn the playbook and his new receivers. He put the Bengals in an impossible situation, and I'm not sure how much benefit the Bengals would actually get out of trading him at this point. The Bengals make things hard enough on themselves, so making it harder on them was death to any possibility for a trade.

If he would have played this year and then asked for the trade with a real offseason to get a deal done, there might have actually been a way to get it done. I don't blame Palmer for wanting to leave. I blame him for not acknowledging that he was a part of the problem last year, and for requesting a trade during a labor issue that made in certain that the Bengals would not be able to get what value there was out of him. So, if he doesn't want to play, let him sit.

[Kahns Krazy]

If another team gave up their first round pick for Palmer, thats an instant savings for that club not having to pay first round draft pick money the following year. i think it's close to a wash from a $$ perspective.
.

I don't think those numbers add up. Even before the rookie salary cap, only the top 1 or 2 draft picks were getting $10m+/year contracts. Now it's about $4m.

[Kahns Krazy]

Yeah, I think Carson sits out the 2011 season and hopes that Dalton establishes himself as the starter. Then he reports in 2012 and the Bengals will be forced to trade him because Mike Brown will not pay $15m for a backup QB.

Can you do that? Pro sports contract are unusual, but that would surprise me if the player can just show up after no-showing for a year and be able to hold the Bengals to the old contract.

[wkrq59]

There are a number of things to be said here, and I have neither the time now the inclination to waste much of mine any more on Mike Brown. There are so many things that I know which could explain some of Mike but they would only be interpreted as excuses.
But can we please dispense with the comparisons to Adolph Hitler? It shows no imagination and Hitler was a maniac who was responsible for the deaths of millions of innocents. Call Mike any other name you can think but please don't equate your disappointment over the team he has put on the field for the past 20 years or the people he has or has not hired or the ripping off of Hamilton County's citizens or any other failings he has, which are deserving of scorn and ridicule but not comparison to one of the absolute worst mass murders in history. It really cheapens and is not worthy of us, especially of Xavier people. :(

[GuyFawkes38]

I'm all for not comparing Brown to Hitler.

The more I read about Brown, the more I feel bad for him. It sounds like he's in over his head. He simply doesn't have the tools to manage an NFL franchise. He's not good at PR. He legitimately stresses about money, even though he has no reason to.

Close friends and acquaintances (like Q) truly feel the need to defend him. On a personal level, he sounds like a good, respectable guy.

But there's no getting around the fact that Brown is a failure. Everyone realizes it, including Brown's small group of passionate defenders. Brown will go down as a failure on many different levels. There isn't a more tarnished name in Cincinnati. That's kind of sad.

[Blue Blooded-05]

Amen, Q. Mike Brown may have killed his father's legacy, but he has never committed genocide. Let's keep things in perspective. It's only football.

While I have never met Mike Brown personally, the thing I keep hearing about him is he is terrified of risk and obsessed with not interrupting revenue streams. In other words, he's the type of person who would save up to buy a less expensive house outright rather than take out a mortgage on a more expensive house. This is why he doesn't hire a front office that would keep the team competitive.

However, if he is so obsessed with revenue streams, why hasn't he sold the naming rights to PBS? The Reds got $75 million for the 30 year naming rights to Great American Ballpark. If he sells the stadium name and used the proceeds to revamp the front office, he could keep profit margin and at least attempt to produce a winner. I realize Mike wants to honor his father but is keeping his name on a half filled stadium that houses the franchise his father founded which has become the laughing stock of the NFL really the best way to do this?

[Xavier]

Or trading Carson and getting at least something for him.

Seattle is in a bad way with QB spot. Carson could reaquaint with Carroll. You cant tell me Carson isnt worth a 1st rounder.....

I don't think a team would trade a 1st round pick for Carson

[Kahns Krazy]

There are a number of things to be said here, and I have neither the time now the inclination to waste much of mine any more on Mike Brown. There are so many things that I know which could explain some of Mike but they would only be interpreted as excuses.
But can we please dispense with the comparisons to Adolph Hitler? It shows no imagination and Hitler was a maniac who was responsible for the deaths of millions of innocents. Call Mike any other name you can think but please don't equate your disappointment over the team he has put on the field for the past 20 years or the people he has or has not hired or the ripping off of Hamilton County's citizens or any other failings he has, which are deserving of scorn and ridicule but not comparison to one of the absolute worst mass murders in history. It really cheapens and is not worthy of us, especially of Xavier people. :(

My reference to Hitler was not a comparison to MB, it was a jab at the obvious nature of this most recent "article", that was mostly a poorly written rehash of a dozen things that have been said before. My post could have also said "In other breaking news, the surface of the sun is hot."

Any reference to Hilter has to be hyperbole. MB is a horrible owner. Horrible. Maybe worst ever. Not Hitler.

[XU 87]

There are so many things that I know which could explain some of Mike but they would only be interpreted as excuses.
:(

I'd be very curious to read about what you know.

[blobfan]

I'm all for not comparing Brown to Hitler.

The more I read about Brown, the more I feel bad for him. It sounds like he's in over his head. He simply doesn't have the tools to manage an NFL franchise. He's not good at PR. He legitimately stresses about money, even though he has no reason to.

Close friends and acquaintances (like Q) truly feel the need to defend him. On a personal level, he sounds like a good, respectable guy.

But there's no getting around the fact that Brown is a failure. Everyone realizes it, including Brown's small group of passionate defenders. Brown will go down as a failure on many different levels. There isn't a more tarnished name in Cincinnati. That's kind of sad.
I might feel bad for him if he weren't living off the government teat and calling it good business, if he weren't such a hypocrite when it comes to contracts/promises, and if I were sure he didn't bribe a public official to help him get the stadium deal.

I have no sympathy for the man, even if he is completely pathetic. I pray to God I never meet him because I may make an a$$ out of myself telling him what I really think about him.

[XU 87]

And in keeping with Bengal tradition, former Bengal Antwan Odom was shot in the leg yesterday.

[Juice]

And in keeping with Bengal tradition, former bengal Antwawn Odom was shot in the leg yesterday.

The early report I read was that he was shot by someone breaking into his home. If that is true, then that's just unfortunate and not really Bengal-esque.

[GoMuskies]

The early report I read was that he was shot by someone breaking into his home. If that is true, then that's just unfortunate and not really Bengal-esque.

It may, of course, depend on WHY someone was breaking into his house.

[Juice]

It may, of course, depend on WHY someone was breaking into his house.

Very true.

And in no way am I trying to make excuses for the legal troubles of former and current Bengal players. This team deserves its reputation.

[xeus]

And in keeping with Bengal tradition, former bengal Antwan Odom was shot in the leg yesterday.

Maybe he'll use the classic Eric Hicks defense and claim to have no idea how he got shot, nor by whom.

[RealDeal]

It may, of course, depend on WHY someone was breaking into his house.

Wonder if it was the same guy who burned his house down.

[XBR1]

The guy, his friend, was breaking into his house because he was having sex with his girlfriend.

[gladdenguy]

I don't think a team would trade a 1st round pick for Carson

Totally agree.....i am so glad dalton is the qb.....carson palmer is a pussy who doesnt have an ounce of leadership and has a terrible arm and cant move.....maybe worth a sixth rounder.

[XU 87]

Totally agree.....i am so glad dalton is the qb.....carson palmer is a pussy who doesnt have an ounce of leadership and has a terrible arm and cant move.....maybe worth a sixth rounder.

What has Dalton done so far that makes you think he's an upgrade, either currently or sometime in the near future, over Palmer?

[paulxu]

And in related news, the Panthers who practice here in Spartanburg, will be travelling to Cincinnati on Thursday night.
You all may make Cam Newton look good.

[XULucho27]

Totally agree.....i am so glad dalton is the qb.....carson palmer is a pussy who doesnt have an ounce of leadership and has a terrible arm and cant move.....maybe worth a sixth rounder.

But you have to at least pick up the phone and listen to the potential offers. Perhaps he's not worth a first rounder but you'll never know what a team MIGHT have given you for him if you keep answering any calls about him with "we're not trading Carson Palmer." At least listen to one damn offer and maybe things would have worked out for everyone.

[boozehound]

Totally agree.....i am so glad dalton is the qb.....carson palmer is a pussy who doesnt have an ounce of leadership and has a terrible arm and cant move.....maybe worth a sixth rounder.

Yeah. Dalton is really looking good in the preaseason so far :rolleyes:

[Jumpy]

And in related news, the Panthers who practice here in Spartanburg, will be travelling to Cincinnati on Thursday night.
You all may make Cam Newton look good.

Mark it down: the panthers vs bengals game on Thursday will be the worst NFL game of the year, pre-, regular- or post- season.

[GoMuskies]

Mark it down: the panthers vs bengals game on Thursday will be the worst NFL game of the year, pre-, regular- or post- season.

If no one gets shot it beats out the Niners/Raiders.

[Xavier]

Totally agree.....i am so glad dalton is the qb.....carson palmer is a pussy who doesnt have an ounce of leadership and has a terrible arm and cant move.....maybe worth a sixth rounder.

He is probably worth a late 2nd/3rd pick. Maybe the Bengals will get Luck next year

[Kahns Krazy]

Yeah. Dalton is really looking good in the preaseason so far :rolleyes:

It may be because my expectations are so low this year, but I didn't think Dalton looked bad at all in the first and second quarter. He's hitting a lot a receivers that he's never thrown to before. Not quite perfectly in stride, but hitting them. His quick drop and quick read are very good so far.

Not a replacement for Carson's early years, but for where he is - rookie with a very short camp period, getting his second start in a torrential downpour, I certainly wasn't expecting any better.

Green dropped a disturbing number of balls that hit him in the hands, on the other hand.

[Jumpy]

Dalton has all the intangibles of a good QB and hopefully he will stop throwing bad INT's very soon. His first on Sunday was ugly, but the second wasn't his fault.

[Kahns Krazy]

Dalton has all the intangibles of a good QB and hopefully he will stop throwing bad INT's very soon. His first on Sunday was ugly, but the second wasn't his fault.

I thought the first one was the one off Green's hands.

The second one (I think) was the one that floated, but I'm not sure Caldwell wasn't out of position on that one either. He took a half step on that route that didn't look right.

I'm not worried about a rookie QB throwing a couple INT's in the preseason. It really looked like once he calmed down, he was hitting recievers.

The defense didn't look horrible either, given that the offense kept setting the Jets up with the great field position. Unfortunately, the weakness on this defense looks like it's going to be giving up the big play. I expect that will continue through the year. The defense will hold for the most part, but when they break, I expect big plays from the other team. That is not a formula for winning.

[Jumpy]

Yeah, I might have them reversed. All I know is that he looked like Jon Kitna on the ball that he floated over Caldwell's head.

I don't doubt that his precision will get better once the game slows down for him. I just hope it happens sooner rather than later, so the Bengals aren't stuck in the off-season wondering whether they spend the #1 pick in the draft on Andrew Luck.

The defense did look good when the first stringers were in there. That 10 play, 99 yard drive was ugly, but by that time most of the secondary and linebackers were 2nd team players. If Dalton can effectively manage a game and the defense stays healthy, they could at least be somewhat competitive this year. Maybe 6 wins, any more and I would be ecstatic.

[Kahns Krazy]

I'm thinking 2-3 wins. Other teams would call this a rebuilding year. MB doesn't build anything but his bank account.

[Jumpy]

The odds are definitely in your favor. I'm just looking for the best possible outcome.

[bleedXblue]

I really dont think you can look at 2 preseason games and know how well this team will do this year. Predicting more than 5 wins is lunacy. I do that know several things will occur.

1. Dalton is going to struggle this year. Period. End of story. Almost all rookie QBs do. Just wait until opposing coaches start to learn what his tendancies are and they will really make things tough on him. West coast offense or not....this will be tough year for Dalton. I simply hope that he gets better as the year progresses and we don't have a huge question mark for the draft next year.
2. Injuries. If the defense can get through the year realtively healthy, it will perform as well or better than last year. Dunlap looked promising and so does Michael Johnson. at DE. Malaluga at MLB should help. What the hell ever happed to Keith Rivers ? Another blown draft pick by Mikey Boy. The big question will be, will Dalton and the offense do what they did Sunday night and turn the ball over twice on our own end of the field ? Again.....putting at rookie as the starting QB is going to really make things tough on the WHOLE team.
3. Things always seem to be a little better in Cincy prior to October, b/c we actually have some hope. Just wait Bengal fans. In December well be counting the days until Reds opening day.
4. Our division is really tough this year. Cleveland is better this year, Baltimore will be tough and the Steelers are the Steelers. Some analysts have called the AFC North the toughest divsion in football. Im not sure I agree with that, but it has to be one of the best. Bottom line is, getting more than 2 wins in this 6 game series will be really tough. I predict 1 win at home against either Cleveland or Baltimore.

Rebuilding year ? I dont think the Bengals organization knows what that is. They're always trying to build something, but having Mikey Boy at the helm means more often than not we get an Edsel and not the Caddy that we were promised.

[boozehound]

It may be because my expectations are so low this year, but I didn't think Dalton looked bad at all in the first and second quarter. He's hitting a lot a receivers that he's never thrown to before. Not quite perfectly in stride, but hitting them. His quick drop and quick read are very good so far.

Not a replacement for Carson's early years, but for where he is - rookie with a very short camp period, getting his second start in a torrential downpour, I certainly wasn't expecting any better.

Green dropped a disturbing number of balls that hit him in the hands, on the other hand.

I don't disagree with you at all.

My comment wasn't meant to bash Dalton, although it can definitely see how it could come across that way. I agree that it isn't really fair to expect anything from a rookie QB (barring a Top 5 pick, maybe) during the preseason, particularly with a shortened offseason. I'm not concerned about Dalton at all, except possibly to the effect that I don't want him to get Klingler-ized by being thrown to the wolves too early on a terrible team. It would be nice to give him some time to learn and develop before throwing him in there, but we don't have that luxury.

I just don't think that Dalton has shown us enough for anybody to be glad we have Dalton and not Palmer. I don't think that Palmer is that bad of a QB. I actually really wanted to see him get traded somewhere to see how he did on a different team in a different system. I do agree with gladdenguy that Palmer isn't big on vocal leadership, but I don't think that his skill set as a QB was necessarily bad. In the right system, with a good line, I think he can still be a pretty good QB.

On a related note, I can't really begrudge Palmer for trying to get traded. This is his life and he doesn't have a tremendous amount of time left to play QB in the NFL. The marriage between Palmer and the Bengals obviously wasn't working. Why not cut ties, get a 1st or 2nd rounder for him (which Carroll probably would have done) and move on?

[Kahns Krazy]

What the hell ever happed to Keith Rivers ? Another blown draft pick by Mikey Boy..

Keith Rivers was having an outstanding start to his career until cheapshot master Hines Ward broke his jaw his rookie year. I wouldn't call his performance in 09 or 10 indicative of a 'blown" draft pick.

He's still on the roster, hasn't been cleared to play from wrist surgery this summer.

[Kahns Krazy]

On a related note, I can't really begrudge Palmer for trying to get traded. This is his life and he doesn't have a tremendous amount of time left to play QB in the NFL. The marriage between Palmer and the Bengals obviously wasn't working. Why not cut ties, get a 1st or 2nd rounder for him (which Carroll probably would have done) and move on?

I kind of get it, but at the same time, I get MB's side. The guy has already been paid millions in signing bonuses as guaranteed money for playing the next three seasons. If MB doesn't want to trade him, then as a professional, you shut your mouth, get back in there and work as hard as you can. You signed the contract, you took the money, you knew what it was like, now get in there and do what you said you'd do.

I also think there's more to it than just "getting a second rounder". First, I don't think there have been any credible reports of any teams offering anything as high as a second round pick for Palmer. The rookie salary cap effectively makes draft picks more valuable, so I doubt teams will be all that eager to trade away draft picks for a veteran QB with a questionable elbow. Second, I've said before that my best guess is that if Palmer no-shows, he has to pay back a portion of his signing bonus. That would go a long way to explaining MB's behavior.

[boozehound]

I kind of get it, but at the same time, I get MB's side. The guy has already been paid millions in signing bonuses as guaranteed money for playing the next three seasons. If MB doesn't want to trade him, then as a professional, you shut your mouth, get back in there and work as hard as you can. You signed the contract, you took the money, you knew what it was like, now get in there and do what you said you'd do.

I also think there's more to it than just "getting a second rounder". First, I don't think there have been any credible reports of any teams offering anything as high as a second round pick for Palmer. The rookie salary cap effectively makes draft picks more valuable, so I doubt teams will be all that eager to trade away draft picks for a veteran QB with a questionable elbow. Second, I've said before that my best guess is that if Palmer no-shows, he has to pay back a portion of his signing bonus. That would go a long way to explaining MB's behavior.

Valid point regarding the signing bonus. I was going to argue that Mike Brown cuts players that he "had an agreement with" all the time, but my understanding is that when you cut a player you don't get any of the signing bonus back. The player keeps it.

I also agree that he should just shut up and play. I felt the same way when Chad Johnson was crying for a trade a few years ago. He had just signed a contract, collected a huge signing bonus, and now wanted to be traded. If you didn't want to play for Cincinnati, don't sign the contract. I understand not wanting to play for Mike Brown, but he was still the owner when you signed. In Palmer's defense I think he signed his last extension several years ago and things have obviously gone downhill. I guess he probably should have signed a shorter contract. I understand his frustration with the direction of the team and his desire to win, but you are right that he did sign a long term deal and ultimately should just shut up and play if he can't get the Bengals to agree to trade him. I understand his wanting out, but you don't always get what you want, particularly if you have signed a contract.

I wouldn't be too sure that Palmer has to give any of his signing bonus back if he retires though. I think that the signing bonus is viewed as an 'up front amount' that has nothing to do with the later years of the contract. Almost like insurance in the event that the player suffers a career ending injury and doesn't get to see their contract out (since NFL contracts aren't guaranteed). I believe that under the old CBA the teams were allowed to amortize the player's signing bonus over the first 3 years of the contract or something along those lines, which I believe is often why you would see contracts with large signing bonuses and then annual salaries that escalated rapidly in the later years of the contract. I'm not 100% sure about any of the above regarding the contracts though. If he does get some of the signing bonus back from Palmer that does help to explain is actions, although I still don't know that I understand them.

It's unfortunate that there isn't some kind of arbitration type of situation to handle this. Maybe Palmer agrees to give back part of the signing bonus if the Bengals agree to trade or release him. With the situation right now it kind of seems like everyone is losing.