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xeus
05-03-2011, 09:55 AM
Mayor Mallory, the Black Knight of the Streetcar, has declared that "he's not dead yet" and that the streetcar project will now run only from Government Square to Over the Rhine. It will not go to Clifton or to the riverfront.

http://www.misfitmimes.com/monty_python_2__limbless_black_knightC.jpg

The streetcar project is finished. Done. Time to move on Mr. Mayor, to more important projects. I mean really ... Gov't Square to OTR? We're going to install tracks in the streets for that? This is getting even more ridiculous.

xeus
05-03-2011, 11:10 AM
news story (http://www.local12.com/News/Local/story/New-Streetcar-Route-Is-Shorter-Skips-Riverfront/Vw-q0hPXEE-cJ7qQIIjHmA.cspx)

Be sure to click on the link to the map!

murray87
05-03-2011, 11:19 AM
I had to check the calendar to make sure it hadn't flipped back to April 1st when I read this! Can Mallory's ego over this ridiculous idea getting any more out of control? There are numerous EXISTING Metro bus routes that cover this area adequately. Sheesh!

Perma Fro
05-03-2011, 12:09 PM
Yep, all the downtown hotspots I would want to hit as a visitor to the city...if I wanted to buy crack.

_LH
05-03-2011, 12:12 PM
Would you expect anything different from a mayor that is suing his own city.

xeus
05-03-2011, 12:22 PM
I'm thinking of opening a boutique hotel (with a vegan theme) at the corner of Race & McMicken.

_LH
05-03-2011, 12:27 PM
Anyone know how many sit down restaurants there are in downtown/OTR/planned for the Banks?

Anyone know why Black Finn closed?

GuyFawkes38
05-03-2011, 01:01 PM
Not going to lie. I've become a supporter of Mallory. He's very entertaining (first pitch incident, late night appearance, suing city). Why have a mayor if he hides in the shadows. Mallory is a leader.

And he's determined to complete the streetcar, which I'm a fan of.

X-band '01
05-03-2011, 01:05 PM
I'd rather see the city do something worthwhile as far as that route goes - we can still finish the old subway system, right?

spazzrico
05-03-2011, 01:37 PM
I'd rather see the city do something worthwhile as far as that route goes - we can still finish the old subway system, right?

If you think the streetcar project is expensive, just imagine the cost of the subway. Too bad that it never got built. It would have been a great circulator within the I-75, Norwood Lateral, I-71 loop. Unfortunately, the line under Central Pkwy now houses major utility conduits and would cost an exorbitant amount to relocate.

I'm a supporter of the original Streetcar idea.....if it was to connect Clifton to the riverfront. OTR to government square is pretty weak. That said, if it can serve as a springboard to allow the extension in a more favorable political economic climate then maybe it has merit.

Funny how whenever I think of the streecar, my next immediate thought is that Kasich is an asshole.

xudash
05-03-2011, 01:44 PM
I have no dog in this hunt, though I will always love Cincinnati.

But, even from my remote location, it seems literally stupid that they wouldn't run this thing down to the new Banks project. How can you drop a billion plus into that kind of development and then not run a public transportation project like this down there?

One of the sacred ideas behind having a vibrant downtown that is somewhat spread out is ease of access. Not "move my car from my hotel and pay to park at yet another parking lot" ease of access; it should be about hopping on something like this streetcar to go down there, or up to OTR, or both, etc.

LadyMuskie
05-03-2011, 01:55 PM
This City is run by a bunch of morons and Mallory is the head moron.

xeus
05-03-2011, 02:31 PM
Does anyone remember the Riverfront Transit Center (http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/transitcenter.html)?

boozehound
05-03-2011, 03:19 PM
Does anyone remember the Riverfront Transit Center (http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/transitcenter.html)?

I wondered what those things were for years before finally finding out. Do they use that area for anything right now?

X-band '01
05-03-2011, 03:27 PM
I wondered what those things were for years before finally finding out. Do they use that area for anything right now?

That's where Jim Tressel kept his emails regarding Terrell Pryor and the other Buckeyes who got tattoos. Just think of all the secrets that Tressel has on Outlook on his computer.

An X Fan
05-03-2011, 06:14 PM
City Clown-cil managed to find a worse idea than the streetcar - a streetcar that doesn't include the riverfront, casino or Clifton. Awesome.

Kahns Krazy
05-03-2011, 09:51 PM
I have given up.

I still believe that Cincinnati needs investment in the city core to reverse the decline in city residents. I believed that the streetcar, combined with other substantial private and semi-private investment happening already, would have been a significant move in the right direction.

I'm still more optimistic than most about the shorter route. I have run from Fountain Square to Findlay Market on many occasions. There is an unbelievable amount of solid real estate in that stretch. Not connecting to Clifton will be a major hurdle to overcome.

I wonder what Cincinnati would look like today if we had opened the casino 15 years ago when Rising Sun and Lawrenceburg opened theirs.

QueensbridgeMF
05-03-2011, 11:18 PM
the same super progressive town I remember from the late nineties. Always looking to the future for local and country.

_LH
05-04-2011, 07:59 AM
I still fail to see what the streetcar would have done that Metro buses did not already do.
I still think that those that rode Metro in that area would have switched to the streetcar but that not many new riders would have been added and it would have been a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I still have not seen anyone give an actual type of new developments the streetcar was going to magically create. There is plenty of real estate available now on the old proposed and currently proposed route. If the need or demand was or is so great for new development in those areas (save what is already taking place) it would have already taken place.
I don't believe many would have riden it from GAPB to OTR for a coffee or beer after a game. I don't believe many would have used it at lunch on a week day. I don't believe anyone would have been riding it at all on Monday - Thursday after 5:00 p.m. in the dead of winter. I don't believe a town that only has 300K downtown residents could have sustained this new transit when they fail to sustain Metro now. The only way it would have worked was if it was connected to existing light rail that allowed people in West Chester/Mason/Kenwood/Anderson/Colerain/NKY to come downtown without taking their cars out of their garages.

xu95
05-04-2011, 08:17 AM
Pretty soon the streetcar will run from one end of Government Square to the other.

xu95

Porkopolis
05-04-2011, 08:43 AM
Pretty soon the streetcar will run from one end of Government Square to the other.

xu95

No doubt. The new route isn't even needed. As others have mentioned, it is already serviced by bus lines. On top of that, I routinely walk from the riverfront to OTR. It really is not that far. I know not everyone is in the shape to do so, but come on. A route this short seems somewhat pointless.

muskiefan82
05-04-2011, 09:03 AM
No doubt. The new route isn't even needed. As others have mentioned, it is already serviced by bus lines. On top of that, I routinely walk from the riverfront to OTR. It really is not that far. I know not everyone is in the shape to do so, but come on. A route this short seems somewhat pointless.

I think I'd like a list of Mayor Mallory's friends put next to a list of everyone who will gain from the streetcar and see how many are on both lists.

Geez, this is stupid.

Jumpy
05-04-2011, 10:21 AM
Mallory's looking at this all wrong now. With a route that short, we should be looking at putting in a sky/ski lift to transport people from the gov't. buildings to OTR. At least that won't clog the streets with unnecessary traffic.

pizza delivery
05-04-2011, 10:51 AM
I still fail to see what the streetcar would have done that Metro buses did not already do.
I still think that those that rode Metro in that area would have switched to the streetcar but that not many new riders would have been added and it would have been a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

That is painfully obvious.


I still have not seen anyone give an actual type of new developments the streetcar was going to magically create. There is plenty of real estate available now on the old proposed and currently proposed route. If the need or demand was or is so great for new development in those areas (save what is already taking place) it would have already taken place.

Much of the new development is/was anticipating the streetcar. Having an urban circulator has been shown time and again to increase investment and property values. You must believe all those instances to be a lie, or not good enough for Cincinnati. All the economic estimates in the most recent study (of the several studies done that recommended the streetcar) were done with very, very conservative numbers so that exceeding them would be very possible. If there is a supply of real estate, wouldn't it make sense that increasing the demand for them would help? That's what a circulator does.


I don't believe many would have riden it from GAPB to OTR for a coffee or beer after a game. I don't believe many would have used it at lunch on a week day. I don't believe anyone would have been riding it at all on Monday - Thursday after 5:00 p.m. in the dead of winter. I don't believe a town that only has 300K downtown residents could have sustained this new transit when they fail to sustain Metro now. The only way it would have worked was if it was connected to existing light rail that allowed people in West Chester/Mason/Kenwood/Anderson/Colerain/NKY to come downtown without taking their cars out of their garages.

So you present no facts, only beliefs that it will fail. It's not hard to see why Mallory doesn't waste time listening to many of the critics, especially ones with a "West Chester/Mason/Kenwood/Anderson/Colerain/NKY" centric POV, since, ya know, those places aren't in the City of Cincinnati.

All that said, I'm still in support of the streetcar only because the later phases still must be built and I think they will be. The Clifton branch is important. An NK branch has the interest of the people in NK.

_LH
05-04-2011, 11:11 AM
That is painfully obvious.



Much of the new development is/was anticipating the streetcar. Having an urban circulator has been shown time and again to increase investment and property values. You must believe all those instances to be a lie, or not good enough for Cincinnati. All the economic estimates in the most recent study (of the several studies done that recommended the streetcar) were done with very, very conservative numbers so that exceeding them would be very possible. If there is a supply of real estate, wouldn't it make sense that increasing the demand for them would help? That's what a circulator does.


So you present no facts, only beliefs that it will fail. It's not hard to see why Mallory doesn't waste time listening to many of the critics, especially ones with a "West Chester/Mason/Kenwood/Anderson/Colerain/NKY" centric POV, since, ya know, those places aren't in the City of Cincinnati.

All that said, I'm still in support of the streetcar only because the later phases still must be built and I think they will be. The Clifton branch is important. An NK branch has the interest of the people in NK.

Sorry Pizza but none of what you wrote is true.

GuyFawkes38
05-04-2011, 11:40 AM
the same super progressive town I remember from the late nineties. Always looking to the future for local and country.

No doubt about it. Why does indianapolis have so much more energy and optimism when it comes to public projects. The city of Indy extends much further into suburban territory than Cincy city limits. I think more people in Indy feel ownership of their downtown. It's too bad.

spazzrico
05-04-2011, 11:41 AM
Sorry Pizza but none of what you wrote is true.

That was the slightly more wordy equivalent of "uh uh!, thhhhhhhhhhhpppppppt!". Kudos.

Pizza is right that circulator lines are generally shown to raise property values. Now that isn't written in stone of course, but the principle is there. And generally I agree with you that it should be networked in with light rail like you mentioned. But uber-enlightened people of the region shot that down like a decade ago when it should have been built. Plus its chicken or egg, because I would also argue that you need to have something like this built in the advent of the light rail being built. I'm in favor of both, not that the funding would ever be available for the project.

I find the whole affair disheartening. I love Cincinnati, but one of the reasons it frustrates me every time I come back is the insane transport network the region sports. At least the streetcar represented a move (for once) toward a better future in that regard. IMHO.

JimmyTwoTimes37
05-04-2011, 11:52 AM
I have given up.

I still believe that Cincinnati needs investment in the city core to reverse the decline in city residents. I believed that the streetcar, combined with other substantial private and semi-private investment happening already, would have been a significant move in the right direction.

I'm still more optimistic than most about the shorter route. I have run from Fountain Square to Findlay Market on many occasions. There is an unbelievable amount of solid real estate in that stretch. Not connecting to Clifton will be a major hurdle to overcome.

I wonder what Cincinnati would look like today if we had opened the casino 15 years ago when Rising Sun and Lawrenceburg opened theirs.

Its disheartening and the plan as is would suck. I would not support it if that was the ultimate goal - which its not. Along this most recent route, there are still 500+ vacant buildings and 93 acres of parking lots prime for development.

From what I hear, city leaders are confident that they can get another $10 mil to get to 2nd street in this first phase

_LH
05-04-2011, 12:07 PM
That was the slightly more wordy equivalent of "uh uh!, thhhhhhhhhhhpppppppt!". Kudos.

Pizza is right that circulator lines are generally shown to raise property values. Now that isn't written in stone of course, but the principle is there. And generally I agree with you that it should be networked in with light rail like you mentioned. But uber-enlightened people of the region shot that down like a decade ago when it should have been built. Plus its chicken or egg, because I would also argue that you need to have something like this built in the advent of the light rail being built. I'm in favor of both, not that the funding would ever be available for the project.

I find the whole affair disheartening. I love Cincinnati, but one of the reasons it frustrates me every time I come back is the insane transport network the region sports. At least the streetcar represented a move (for once) toward a better future in that regard. IMHO.

The only way the streetcar would come close to the promises for Cincinnati would be if it were connected to light rail. Otherwise it does nothing different or new than Metro buses that currently patrol these areas half empty.

Pizza's reply to me was no different. If he can state specific examples of businesses that have relocated or opened new due to the streetcar, let's see them.

I have lived in Cincinnati for 40 years and worked downtown for 20 years and know exactly what the people that work and play down there are custom to do and a streetcar won't change that.

spazzrico
05-04-2011, 01:53 PM
Pizza's reply to me was no different. If he can state specific examples of businesses that have relocated or opened new due to the streetcar, let's see them.
Why would a business open when it isn't being built? It has to at least be under construction first.

_LH
05-04-2011, 01:57 PM
Why would a business open when it isn't being built? It has to at least be under construction first.

Businesses are opening around that area as we speak WITHOUT the streetcar or WITHOUT the potential for a streetcar in 6 months or 6 years for that matter.

My question is:

what kind of development is the streetcar supposed to spur in these areas exactly? I have never seen or heard specifics. Everything is in generalities or "look what happened in Portland" crap.

Kahns Krazy
05-04-2011, 03:22 PM
The only way the streetcar would come close to the promises for Cincinnati would be if it were connected to light rail. Otherwise it does nothing different or new than Metro buses that currently patrol these areas half empty.

Pizza's reply to me was no different. If he can state specific examples of businesses that have relocated or opened new due to the streetcar, let's see them.

I have lived in Cincinnati for 40 years and worked downtown for 20 years and know exactly what the people that work and play down there are custom to do and a streetcar won't change that.

People have quoted articles from the business courier to you where owners of companies have specifically mentioned the streetcar among reasons for locating downtown. You have dismissed these references previously and you would do it again. At one point you actually claimed that a company owner was lying about his reasons for choosing his location.

There is absolutely no reason to have any sort of discussion with you on the streetcar because you are not interested in hearing any reasons why it could be beneficial.

Muskie
05-04-2011, 03:31 PM
Businesses are opening around that area as we speak WITHOUT the streetcar or WITHOUT the potential for a streetcar in 6 months or 6 years for that matter.

My question is:

what kind of development is the streetcar supposed to spur in these areas exactly? I have never seen or heard specifics. Everything is in generalities or "look what happened in Portland" crap.

Are you suggesting that businesses would not flock to be near stops on public transportation that had a good ridership?

X-band '01
05-04-2011, 03:48 PM
If you think the streetcar project is expensive, just imagine the cost of the subway. Too bad that it never got built. It would have been a great circulator within the I-75, Norwood Lateral, I-71 loop. Unfortunately, the line under Central Pkwy now houses major utility conduits and would cost an exorbitant amount to relocate.


I mentioned the subway tongue-in-cheek; I understand the notion of a streetcar potentially bringing in a number of different businesses that otherwise would not come downtown into Cincinnati.

I forget how many years ago it was when there was a light rail issue brought to the ballot that would have served a region starting around Kings Island and going all the way into Northern Kentucky. My question at that time was whether or not the Cincy metro area would be big enough to support such a project. Cleveland has light rail, but I wonder what kind of ridership they have.

I know that Mayor Mark Mallory would give his left nut to have the streetcar downtown, but having a much shorter line just won't cut it.

spazzrico
05-04-2011, 07:29 PM
I mentioned the subway tongue-in-cheek; I understand the notion of a streetcar potentially bringing in a number of different businesses that otherwise would not come downtown into Cincinnati.

I forget how many years ago it was when there was a light rail issue brought to the ballot that would have served a region starting around Kings Island and going all the way into Northern Kentucky. My question at that time was whether or not the Cincy metro area would be big enough to support such a project. Cleveland has light rail, but I wonder what kind of ridership they have.

I know that Mayor Mark Mallory would give his left nut to have the streetcar downtown, but having a much shorter line just won't cut it.

Sorry, missed the sarc....:o

I've got to believe there would have been enough ridership from areas like West Chester and Mason for those that commute. Traffic is infuriating and to be able to sit and read on the way to work would have been a huge plus for a lot of people. Maybe it would have done something to revitalize some of the closer in neighborhoods....but it's all speculative I guess.

_LH
05-05-2011, 08:03 AM
People have quoted articles from the business courier to you where owners of companies have specifically mentioned the streetcar among reasons for locating downtown. You have dismissed these references previously and you would do it again. At one point you actually claimed that a company owner was lying about his reasons for choosing his location.

There is absolutely no reason to have any sort of discussion with you on the streetcar because you are not interested in hearing any reasons why it could be beneficial.

People have done no such thing. Please show me if you disagree.

One suggested that a company that got a state grant relocated for the streetcar but that was debunked by their real motive of the state grant. I have seen no other companies state they moved to downtown or OTR for the streetcar (that does not exist).

_LH
05-05-2011, 08:05 AM
Are you suggesting that businesses would not flock to be near stops on public transportation that had a good ridership?

I am asking what kinds of businesses would "flock" there.

Restaurants?

Newstands?

Bars?

Offices?

Give me some specifics.

JimmyTwoTimes37
05-05-2011, 08:13 AM
People have quoted articles from the business courier to you where owners of companies have specifically mentioned the streetcar among reasons for locating downtown. You have dismissed these references previously and you would do it again. At one point you actually claimed that a company owner was lying about his reasons for choosing his location.

There is absolutely no reason to have any sort of discussion with you on the streetcar because you are not interested in hearing any reasons why it could be beneficial.


I am asking what kinds of businesses would "flock" there.

Restaurants?

Newstands?

Bars?

Offices?

Give me some specifics.

We went through this last time in the thread you shut down. You accused the business owners of lying and even forging a letter of support

Porkopolis
05-05-2011, 08:13 AM
Cleveland has light rail, but I wonder what kind of ridership they have.

When I lived in Cleveland I rode the east side commuter line every day and it was always packed during rush hour. It is one of the few things I miss about Cleveland.

_LH
05-05-2011, 08:16 AM
We went through this last time in the thread you shut down. You accused the business owners of lying and even forging a letter of support

I showed evidence that he was using revisionist history for his reasoning behind the move as it was clearly for the state grant but nice try.

JimmyTwoTimes37
05-05-2011, 08:29 AM
I showed evidence that he was using revisionist history for his reasoning behind the move as it was clearly for the state grant but nice try.

http://cincystreetcar.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/rose-letter.jpeg

"We moved Rookwood to this unique location for many reasons but most of all the potential that our destination facility may be located on the streetcar line"

......

But, according to you, they are lying. They were forced against their will to write this letter of support by the Mayor, and 5th/Vine, Christ Hospital, Taste of Belgium, Sibcy Cline, The CEO of Moehrlein Brewery, Holy Grail management, and the rest supporting the project are lying as well

_LH
05-05-2011, 08:41 AM
I then posted a link to an article that pre-dates your silly letter that shows the real reason for their move. The ower clearly would like the benefits (if any) of a streetcar so he wrote a letter in support of the streetcar but he really moved for the state grant. Sorry.

_LH
05-05-2011, 08:49 AM
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/09/10/daily13.html

Porkopolis
05-05-2011, 08:59 AM
I then posted a link to an article that pre-dates your silly letter than shows the real reason for their move. The ower clearly would like the benefits (if any) of a streetcar so he wrote a letter in support of the streetcar but he really moved for the state grant. Sorry.

Rookwood was moving to OTR regardless of the state grant. They had already made the decision to move. Here is a quote from one of the new owners in 2008:

George Verkamp and Christine Schoonover of Huff Realty represented Wade and the Catanzaro family in Monday’s sale.

Verkamp said he’s been working with Rose for two years to find the right property for the pottery company.

“It’s proximity to Findley Market, and the street car line that we’re all banking on, makes this an absolutely magnificent location for Rookwood,” Verkamp said.

_LH
05-05-2011, 09:02 AM
Rookwood was moving to OTR regardless of the state grant. They had already made the decision to move. Here is a quote from one of the new owners in 2008:

George Verkamp and Christine Schoonover of Huff Realty represented Wade and the Catanzaro family in Monday’s sale.

Verkamp said he’s been working with Rose for two years to find the right property for the pottery company.

“It’s proximity to Findley Market, and the street car line that we’re all banking on, makes this an absolutely magnificent location for Rookwood,” Verkamp said.

Incorrect. Look at the dates of the article. They got the grant to move to OTR in 2007, way before any of this streetcar nonsense.

Porkopolis
05-05-2011, 09:12 AM
Incorrect. Look at the dates of the article. They got the grant to move to OTR in 2007, way before any of this streetcar nonsense.

Here is an article showing intent to move to the new space in 2006. The planning happened long before the move, as things do tend to go down. The article was written after your BizCourier article, though, so you probably won't care.

http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2009/07/rookwood-pottery-pushing-limits-with.html

_LH
05-05-2011, 09:20 AM
Here is an article showing intent to move to the new space in 2006. The planning happened long before the move, as things do tend to go down. The article was written after your BizCourier article, though, so you probably won't care.

http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2009/07/rookwood-pottery-pushing-limits-with.html

The thing is, there were no plans for a streetcar in 2006 and certainly it was at best a pipe dream and not concrete enough to be the reason for Rookwook to move to OTR. The 2007 article clearly states they moved for the state grant and were considering NKY as a possible option. Does NKY have a streetcar? Why would they consider NKY if they wanted to be near a streetcar? Hmmmm.

JimmyTwoTimes37
05-05-2011, 09:26 AM
The thing is, there were no plans for a streetcar in 2006 and certainly it was at best a pipe dream and not concrete enough to be the reason for Rookwook to move to OTR. The 2007 article clearly states they moved for the state grant and were considering NKY as a possible option. Does NKY have a streetcar? Why would they consider NKY if they wanted to be near a streetcar? Hmmmm.


Incorrect. Look at the dates of the article. They got the grant to move to OTR in 2007, way before any of this streetcar nonsense.


I then posted a link to an article that pre-dates your silly letter that shows the real reason for their move. The ower clearly would like the benefits (if any) of a streetcar so he wrote a letter in support of the streetcar but he really moved for the state grant. Sorry.

So you're saying they moved there for reasons other than the streetcar despite the fact they mentioned the streetcar as the main reason they moved there?

If true, what would be their motive for this mass deception to the public? Why go to all this trouble to type up a fake letter expressing the streetcar as their reason for moving along the route when they know they didn't take it into consideration? Why go to all this trouble to side on a decision that has come politicized and risk condemnation from the local media, which in large part, does not support the project?

Don't you think some opponent of the streetcar would have come out with this evidence by now? If its so obvious in 2007 that they moved for reasons other than the streetcar and that this most current letter is a farce, don't you think Luken or COAST or Smitherman would have dug it up to belittle the project? You don't think 700wlw would have picked up on it? Or channels 5/9/12/19? Or Cincinnati.com?

This is a direct quote from Kahns:

"The streetcar feasability study published two months before Rookwood won the OTR grant has the proposed route, and only one proposed route, recommended for the CBD/OTR segment of the streetcar.

But you're right. Everyone else is lying about it. And now they're altering documents to make the timeline work like you said it would too."

_LH
05-05-2011, 09:31 AM
So you're saying they moved there for reasons other than the streetcar despite the fact they mentioned the streetcar as the main reason they moved there?

If true, what would be their motive for this mass deception to the public? Why go to all this trouble to type up a fake letter expressing the streetcar as their reason for moving along the route when they know they didn't take it into consideration? Why go to all this trouble to side on a decision that has come politicized and risk condemnation from the local media, which in large part, does not support the project?

Don't you think some opponent of the streetcar would have come out with this evidence by now? If its so obvious in 2007 that they moved for reasons other than the streetcar and that this most current letter is a farce, don't you think Luken or COAST or Smitherman would have dug it up to belittle the project? You don't think 700wlw would have picked up on it? Or channels 5/9/12/19? Or Cincinnati.com?

This is a direct quote from Kahns:

"The streetcar feasability study published two months before Rookwood won the OTR grant has the proposed route, and only one proposed route, recommended for the CBD/OTR segment of the streetcar.

But you're right. Everyone else is lying about it. And now they're altering documents to make the timeline work like you said it would too."

Jimmy,

You are wrong, now move on. See below.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/09/10/daily13.html

They moved for the state grant, not for a mythical streetcar but nice try!!

I'm sure the owner would like to see a streecar NOW as a possible benefit but it clearly was not the reason for the move.

Your boy Rose doesn't even work at Rookwood anymore and it looks like the new owners are in some trouble.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110505/BIZ01/105060350/

xeus
05-10-2011, 10:54 AM
OTR shooting (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110510/NEWS010701/305100040)

Yet another OTR shooting, right on the proposed trolley route. In case anyone wonders why XU 87 has no plans to take his kids on a trolley ride from Gov't Square to the West End, this kind of event might have something to do with it.

_LH
05-10-2011, 11:18 AM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110509/NEWS0108/105100330/GOP-council-members-want-streetcar-meeting?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|News|p

muskiefan82
05-10-2011, 11:22 AM
OTR shooting (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110510/NEWS010701/305100040)

Yet another OTR shooting, right on the proposed trolley route. In case anyone wonders why XU 87 has no plans to take his kids on a trolley ride from Gov't Square to the West End, this kind of event might have something to do with it.

The streetcar will be bulletproof and equipped with multiple cameras to photograph crimes as they happen for review. All riders will need to pass through streetcar security before boarding and all bags will be subject to inspection. Open containers will not be allowed. Nail clippers, small scissors and pocketknives will be confiscated before boarding.