View Full Version : Situation
bourbonman
02-16-2010, 10:47 PM
OK. Just watched the KY @ MS St game. Near the end of an OT win by the Cats, someone throws a water bottle that explodes from the stands on the court. Refs don't call a technical, probably because it's near the end of the game. But should they have sent a message?
Regardless of what time of the game this happens what should be the reaction? i say technical regardless of time left or situation. Home team must control crowd. Home team coach should go grab PA system and call it off.
Thoughts?
GoMuskies
02-16-2010, 10:47 PM
Technical foul on Miss. State if the bottle misses Calipari. If it hits him, automatic Miss. State win.
bourbonman
02-16-2010, 10:50 PM
Technical foul on Miss. State if the bottle misses Calipari. If it hits him, automatic Miss. State win.
LOL. Not a legit answer, but I understand. So let's simplify. Xavier is the home team. Now comment!
GoMuskies
02-16-2010, 10:53 PM
Xavier's the home team? Technical foul on Dayton. It MUST be a Dayton fan that snuck into the Cintas Center. Xavier fans would never do such a thing.
BENWAR
02-16-2010, 10:55 PM
OK. Just watched the KY @ MS St game. Near the end of an OT win by the Cats, someone throws a water bottle that explodes from the stands on the court. Refs don't call a technical, probably because it's near the end of the game. But should they have sent a message?
Regardless of what time of the game this happens what should be the reaction? i say technical regardless of time left or situation. Home team must control crowd. Home team coach should go grab PA system and call it off.
Thoughts?
I guess no Kentucky fans were at the game.
If you gave the home team a technical, all it would do is open the door for visiting fans to throw something on the court to give the home team a technical.
AviatorX
02-16-2010, 10:57 PM
Yeah I guess I can understand a fine or something, but I don't see how it's fair to punish the team competing for the actions of the fans, especially if it will greatly impact the outcome out the game.
bourbonman
02-16-2010, 10:58 PM
Xavier's the home team? Technical foul on Dayton. It MUST be a Dayton fan that snuck into the Cintas Center. Xavier fans would never do such a thing.
LMAO! You're killing me man! I would try to set additional restrictions, but you would find a crack! I'll buy you a bourbon!
Cheesehead
02-16-2010, 11:16 PM
I think they get a warning and then T them up if it happens again unless of course it actually injured someone, then a T is deserved. There were only 2.7 seconds left so I don't think the refs really wanted to call the T.
The announcers were pissed too; Brad Nessler was visibly ticked off by it. BTW: it was more than one object too. Too bad a good game was ended that way. The crowd was not happy with many of the calls late in the game and in OT.
Xavier
02-17-2010, 01:39 AM
Only problem with giving T's =visiting fans throwing stuff on getting the home team a technical. Its hard to say what to do.
Porkopolis
02-17-2010, 05:50 AM
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Only problem with giving T's =visiting fans throwing stuff on getting the home team a technical. Its hard to say what to do.
Yep. I've seen this happen at a high school game before.
bourbonman
02-17-2010, 06:56 AM
OK. I thought of the visiting fan issue but I still think it's the home team's responsibility to provide security. What was thrown last night was blatant and landed at the ref's feet (or close). I think a bottle of water or something that can cause bodily harm deserves an automatic T, no warning. Zero tolerance.
danaandvictory
02-17-2010, 07:47 AM
Anyone remember Thad pulling the whole team off the floor at SJU after their students started throwing projectiles and West shooting like 8 straight FTs directly into them with a few seconds left?
XUglow
02-17-2010, 08:03 AM
Bush league action to throw crap. Always has been. Always will be. The warning is step one. I think that is all that you can do on the first incident. The water bottle that was thrown hit the table between the announcers. You could hear the thud. The SEC may fine MSU to get them to beef up security. They put about 300 in more than capacity. That can't be a good thing.
The crowd got amped up with the refs in OT. Patterson's charge was called a blocking foul. Wall's block was a goal tending. Etc. The ref called a foul with 2 seconds to go. It was probably a foul, but with 2 seconds to go in a 5 point game, the best thing would have been to swallow your whistle. No excuse for throwing anything though. There never is.
bourbonman
02-17-2010, 08:15 AM
.....They put about 300 in more than capacity.....
Which brings up another point. Where's the code enforcement? Isn't capacity tied to what a building can be operated at safely? Forget the lines to the restrooms, concessions, etc. What if there was a fire?
Now I know the answer because I've been to a game in Starkville, Mississippi. I don't think those boys down there care too much about code, except the one they make up themselves.
Is it pathetic that I assumed this was a Jersey Shore thread and was a bit disappointed that it's basketball-related?
Muskie
02-17-2010, 08:34 AM
Is it pathetic that I assumed this was a Jersey Shore thread and was a bit disappointed that it's basketball-related?
I too thought it was a jersey shore thread... good grief.
bourbonman
02-17-2010, 08:45 AM
Is it pathetic that I assumed this was a Jersey Shore thread and was a bit disappointed that it's basketball-related?
So I had no idea why the confusion so I have to look up Jersey Shore to gain an understanding of the trouble I apparently caused. Now I see. :o LOL. Sorry. If I could change the title of the thread to Bottle Throwing I would. :)
American X
02-17-2010, 08:55 AM
If Xavier is the home team, you should still hit Calipari.
Short of that, hit an incompetent SEC official. These games have more preordination than a medieval Thomist discourse.
coasterville95
02-17-2010, 08:56 AM
A basketball thread on a basketball forum, imagine that?
I think the proceudre, at the ref's discretion, is to try to give the home team the chance to calm the crowd down (PA announcement), then to go for the T. I agree that answer could lead to abuse by visiting teams fans, but it is the home teams responsibility to provide for safety and security in the arena. Now, I think if the arena staff can identify the culrpit, they can have them removed from the site of competition without the T...
Recall, this is the SEC we are talking about, they like to hand out fines at the drop of a pom pom for failing to control fan behavior. They make take the school to task for it, not to mention they can't be feeling too good about being embarassed on TV last night by their fans.
XUglow
02-17-2010, 09:08 AM
Which brings up another point. Where's the code enforcement? Isn't capacity tied to what a building can be operated at safely? Forget the lines to the restrooms, concessions, etc. What if there was a fire?
Now I know the answer because I've been to a game in Starkville, Mississippi. I don't think those boys down there care too much about code, except the one they make up themselves.
The building code actually allows that number. In the past, MSU has never allowed any standing room tickets sold, but they sold about 250 of them last night. One of my employees went to the game last night, and he said that his ears are still ringing from the noise. One of the UK players said it was so loud that you couldn't even hear yourself think. Rupp is a great place for basketball, but the blue hairs will assault you if you try to stand up to enjoy the action.
DC Muskie
02-17-2010, 09:10 AM
Anyone remember Thad pulling the whole team off the floor at SJU after their students started throwing projectiles and West shooting like 8 straight FTs directly into them with a few seconds left?
I was at that game and I'm telling you it was not fun. Of course, Thad didn't lecture SJU fans on how to behave. The stuff that was thrown was actually not from the students however. That's what really surprised me.
As for the visiting fan thing. If I had thrown something on the court that night, you best believe I would have been pummeled. can you imagine the outrage if a visiting fan threw something on the court? That's just asking to get yourself destroyed.
boozehound
02-17-2010, 09:26 AM
Is it pathetic that I assumed this was a Jersey Shore thread and was a bit disappointed that it's basketball-related?
I too thought it was a jersey shore thread... good grief.
Count me in there as well. I can't hear the word 'situation' without thinking of the Jersey Shore.
MADXSTER
02-17-2010, 09:57 AM
The number 1, absolute priority for any ref, umpire, etc is and should be the safety of the players. Period.
Personally, yes I would have given the home team coach the chance to settle down the crowd. If that didn't work, I would have instructed the home team coach to have all fans exit the building within a given amount of time or the game would be forfeited.
The fans would probably find the ahole who through the crap and he might just learn a valuable lesson.
OK. I thought of the visiting fan issue but I still think it's the home team's responsibility to provide security. What was thrown last night was blatant and landed at the ref's feet (or close). I think a bottle of water or something that can cause bodily harm deserves an automatic T, no warning. Zero tolerance.
I just don't see how you can legitimately prevent someone in a group of 10,000 people from throwing something onto the court. If your rule were in in place and I were at a dayton/Xavier game at the dump, tied with under a minute, I'm taking off my Xavier hat and throwing my water bottle straight at the ref. I don't care if it's Bush league, if it means helping my team get a win, John Cahill is getting clocked in the face with a water bottle at dayton's expense. I understand the risk I'd be taking but imagine if it really was the difference between winning at the dump and losing.
I can't believe you "men" watch Jersey Shore.
Titanxman04
02-17-2010, 10:29 AM
You all have forgotten the Crosstown Shootout when UC was ranked tenth in the country. It was that OT game. I was in the student section and someone a few rows behind me threw a quarter or some other coin and a bouncy ball. Other students pointed them out and the kid got kicked out. But alas, it happened at X too.
My opinion of it all is with yours, it's bush league. Act like you've been to a game before. Don't give your whole program a bad name. It happens EVERY DAMN YEAR at West Virginia. Seems like a few times a season Drunk Bob is always telling his fans to knock it off.
Its a bad way to present your school and I'm glad that Xavier has class these days. It only takes one dumbass to ruin it for everyone else, and we've been fortunate enough to avoid that now. The security took care of things pretty quickly during the aforementioned incident, and I have no doubt that would be on top of it again.
It takes a pretty big asshole to throw something on the court. And alcohol is never an excuse. It's piss-poor decision making and I really (if you haven't guessed) have no tolerance for the matter.
MADXSTER
02-17-2010, 10:39 AM
And alcohol is never an excuse. It's piss-poor decision making and I really (if you haven't guessed) have no tolerance for the matter.
Whether it's alcohol induced or not, alcohol will get the blame, thus leading to no alcohol being served.
Titanxman04
02-17-2010, 10:53 AM
Whether it's alcohol induced or not, alcohol will get the blame, thus leading to no alcohol being served.
Well to hell with that. I'm all for drinking at the game (God knows I do... look for my intoxicated ass in Joseph - I'm the one with the flag)... but you just have to be smart about it.
muskiefan82
02-17-2010, 10:53 AM
Whether it's alcohol induced or not, alcohol will get the blame, thus leading to no alcohol being served.
Which, in the end, should be incentive enough for all to never, ever throw anything on the court.
Titanxman04
02-17-2010, 10:54 AM
Which, in the end, should be incentive enough for all to never, ever throw anything on the court.
Reps for making a solid point.
DC Muskie
02-17-2010, 11:24 AM
If your rule were in in place and I were at a dayton/Xavier game at the dump, tied with under a minute, I'm taking off my Xavier hat and throwing my water bottle straight at the ref.
And I can almost guarantee that you'd be going home in a Dayton ambulance.
xubrew
02-17-2010, 11:45 AM
what would calling a technical foul have accomplished?? the game had been decided. it wouldn't have sent a message. if anything the people that did it probably would have been treated to a round of high fives at that point. the t's wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game.
i'm for punishing the jackasses that throw things and cause trouble, not the players and coaches. for a long time i've felt that the ncaa should collectively come together and create a database of morons. they could even call it that, the database of morons. anyone that is identified as being a moron because they threw things at the court, at another fan, intentionally tried to provoke a fight with opposing fans, or whatever is identified and put into the database of morons. not only is this person kicked out of the arena, they're not allowed to come back to any ncaa event...ever (maybe even longer). no home or road football games, no bowl games, no ncaa tournament games, no home or road basketball games. the casinos in vegas do it with those who cheat, and it works. over time this would work too, and i don't think it would take long before people started thinking twice before acting like a moron. as of now, even with the technical, there is virtually no consequence for the jackasses that actually did it. it didn't change the outcome of the game, and they were kicked out of the arena after the game had already been decided. ooohh, what a severe smackdown. they'll be back for the next game. there are cameras in the arena, and other ways to identify who the troublemakers are. those are the people who need to be dealt with, not the players and coaches via technical fouls that in this case would have been meaningless.
blobfan
02-17-2010, 12:20 PM
With 2 seconds left, what the refs do doesn't matter. But if the school isn't pro-active in trying to find out who did it and ban them, or make changes to prevent it from happening in the future, then the NCAA should do something. A dark part of me would like to see a ref get belted for a bad call, but I imagine it would be more fun to imagine than to actually see.
Count me in there as well. I can't hear the word 'situation' without thinking of the Jersey Shore.
I thought the same but was not disappointed to see it wasn't. I was afraid someone was recounting their trip to see his appearance at a local club a week or so ago. I heard there were 1/2 dressed people lined up around the block in the middle of the snow storm.
I can't believe you "men" watch Jersey Shore.
Really? I've not watched it but from what I hear I'd think it would be more appealing to men than women. It's basically a bunch of easy chicks in tight clothes trying to sleep with guys that fit a macho stereotype that values neither intellectual accomplishments nor pleasant behavior. Basically if you are a macho jerk with halfway decent pecs that talks like a moron, you're getting laid. And since the chicks don't care if you call them the next morning, does it matter they have the face of an orange schnauzer as long as they have the big rack?
I'm not suggesting that's every guys cup of tea but I would think in general it appeals to men more than women.
wkrq59
02-17-2010, 12:27 PM
Brew,
The NCAA has enough trouble rationalizing the incompetency of its game officials, let alone caring what the hell goes on in the stands during a game.
The SEC justly punishes South Carolina with a $25,000 fine for its fans rushing the floor after beating Kentucky. Yet the same governing body continually supports officials such as those in last night's UK@ Miss St. game who miss that obvious Patterson charge and call it a block and numerous no foul calls that benefit UK.
But ESPN has its "Rush the dorm," series and nothing is said by the NCAA.
John Cahill, Tim Higgins and Jim Burr are allowed to officiate sometimes six to eight games on consecutive days in four or five different states and nothing is said when they blow obvious calls and either over-react to on court incidents or fail to get control of the game before they happen.
The NCAA and its game officials are similar to the nun in an elementary school who walks back into her classroom and says, "I heard a lot of talking and if the guilty party or parties don't own up in one minute, the whole class will write punish work." Punish the whole for the actions of a few.
Before it even starts, I know full well there are very few parochial schools where the students are taught by religious sisters, aka nuns, who have almost become an endangered species and extinct.
What we've been observing has become a fact of life, people irresponsibly taking the law into their own hands and trying to right a perceived wrong with acts of violence.
But we'll demand the starters on both teams shake hands after the national anthem and following the game players and coaches from both teams shake hands in an often phony demonstration of "sportsmanship." Bull. Keep the damned handshakes in hockey where they belong and everyone can enjoy the hypocrisy.:D:D:D
And I can almost guarantee that you'd be going home in a Dayton ambulance.
Unless the dayton security guards who grab me 15 seconds after I throw the object beat my ass, then no, I wouldn't. I'd be escorted out and given my fine and ban from an arena I would never go back to anyway. If someone actually touches me then they are now more screwed than I am.
Obviously I am being a major douche in this hypothetical situation, but it shows why the automatic T on the home team would be a bad rule.
Really? I've not watched it but from what I hear I'd think it would be more appealing to men than women. It's basically a bunch of easy chicks in tight clothes trying to sleep with guys that fit a macho stereotype that values neither intellectual accomplishments nor pleasant behavior. Basically if you are a macho jerk with halfway decent pecs that talks like a moron, you're getting laid. And since the chicks don't care if you call them the next morning, does it matter they have the face of an orange schnauzer as long as they have the big rack?
I'm not suggesting that's every guys cup of tea but I would think in general it appeals to men more than women.
I admit, I've never watched it so I don't know, but a lot of my girl friends are the ones I hear talking about it. My thing is MTV is not a male's station or anymore, and hasn't been for a long time. It's also not a station for people over 17. So I suppose if you are between 10 and 17, are a girl, and have the intellect of a steel post, it's an appropriate channel. At least 2 of those things I don't have going for me.
They really put some unbelievable trash on that network in my opinion.
DC Muskie
02-17-2010, 01:20 PM
Unless the dayton security guards who grab me 15 seconds after I throw the object beat my ass, then no, I wouldn't. I'd be escorted out and given my fine and ban from an arena I would never go back to anyway. If someone actually touches me then they are now more screwed than I am.
Oh tough guy!
I'm talking about Daryl and his other brother Daryl from Centerville and about half the population from Huber Heights pounded you before security even gets there.
I would certainly hope Xavier fans will dispatch a visiting fan if such a situation arose.
XUglow
02-17-2010, 01:31 PM
I have heard it all now. Some people are complaining about "crowd taunting" because it leads to other unruly fan behavior... like throwing cups onto the court. Seriously? Shouting "air ball" in unison is now "crowd taunting" and deserves a T? Who comes up with this stuff? Heavens, let's not get in a situation where Jason Love is crying on the bench because the people at UC or Dayton were mean to him.
What is next? Everybody in uniform gets to play 4 minutes each half, and teams that have a ten point lead can't press or fast break?
Titanxman04
02-17-2010, 01:39 PM
I feel like the NCAA or conference should punish repeat offenders. If a school continually has a problems with fans, they should take away home games.
EX: Pitt @ WVU. Punish WVU by making them play at Pitt twice. Or at Pitt and then a neutral site. It hurts the school, not necessarily the players and coaches. If its a problem with students doing these things, then neutral site game replaces the home game, and disallow a student section, or don't sell student tickets, etc...
Of course, repeat offenders. One dumbass shouldn't screw your schedule, but I think there's a point where the school is responsible.
MADXSTER
02-17-2010, 01:46 PM
Seriously? Shouting "air ball" in unison is now "crowd taunting" and deserves a T? Who comes up with this stuff?
Roy Williams??
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