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powerofX
01-05-2010, 08:44 AM
Mangini....Stay or Go?

I think he earned one more year with the play down the stretch. Have Holmgren hire a draft Guru GM and see what happens.

drudy23
01-05-2010, 08:59 AM
I'm not a Browns fan...but...go.

It's Holmgren's team now...if you hired him to turn it around, let him turn it around and get out of his way. I seriously doubt Holmgren's choice for coach is Mangina.

If I was Holmgren, I'd be at Bill Cowher's house right now.

DC Muskie
01-05-2010, 09:46 AM
I'd say go.

Why wait and see if this run was something that can be sustained. I'd hate to think that because we won four games that means we are headed in the right direction. Only Holgrem knows that.

He's going to hire a GM. I doubt that GM will want to inherit Mangini. If he does, then what the hell was the point of all of this. It's the exact same thing the Browns have been doing for years.

xavierj
01-05-2010, 10:06 AM
As a Bengals fan I hope they keep him. The guy is a terrible coach and the two extra wins a year against the Browns is always nice. Keeping him would also be what Mike Brown would do. So the Browns can continue their losing ways keeping him would be the only logical thing to do.

DC Muskie
01-05-2010, 10:18 AM
As a Bengals fan I hope they keep him. The guy is a terrible coach and the two extra wins a year against the Browns is always nice. Keeping him would also be what Mike Brown would do. So the Browns can continue their losing ways keeping him would be the only logical thing to do.

I love it when Bengals fan talk shit.

I'm not sure where the Mike Brown connection comes from, but I guess when you haven't been able to talk shit, you would tend to screw it up.

MADXSTER
01-05-2010, 10:28 AM
I'm not sure where the Mike Brown connection comes from

Mike Brown = Loser

xavierj
01-05-2010, 10:34 AM
Yes Mike Brown is a loser but the Browns have not been relevant since the mid 80's. Mike Brown is a terrible owner and I do not like him as a Bengals fan. But how bad must the Browns organization be run. I mean Mike Brown tries to be awful and the guy has his organization in the playoffs for the 2nd time in six years. And I know Browns fans are like UC fans and point to meaningless championships from 60 years ago, when they won under the direction of a Brown, but at least I can say I have witnessed two Bengals super bowls in my lifetime. I do not recall the storied Browns organization making it that far in my 37 years on this earth. I as a Bengals fan know where my team stands and it is not that good even with the playoffs, I don't think Browns fans realize how much of a joke their organization is. Or at least the Browns fans I encounter.

DC Muskie
01-05-2010, 11:11 AM
J-

You'd had two winning seasons since 1991.

The Browns have had three. And we weren't even around for three years. So you have had three more years to win more games than you lost, and you still couldn't do that. And yet the Browns are a joke?

You think Browns fans are like UC fans...are you fing kidding me?????

You went to the Super Bowl in 1989. That was an entire year before I entered high school. That was three years BEFORE UC's last Final Four appearance. Great, you got to experience two Super Bowls. Both in the Reagan administration. Awesome. I bet you think the Chiefs and Vikings are both really good as well.

I don't rip on Bengals. Especially this year. I got too much hate for the Steelers and the Ravens. The Bengals aren't even on my radar screen. I actually enjoyed watching them beat the Steelers and the Ravens. So congrats.

Seriously this is a thread about whether Browns fans want Mangini back. But thanks for stopping by to tell us that the Bengals are somehow more revelant then the Browns. Like I said, I love it when Bengal fans talk shit.

Muskie1000
01-05-2010, 11:21 AM
My husband is a big Brown's fan and he says he goes and I tend to agree. The only reason he would stay is that they don't want to rock the boat this year. But if I'm the GM, that guy has to go. How can you sit Brady in the beginning of the year over Anderson. Of course Brady made mistakes, he hasn't been given a chance - but to bring in Anderson and then keep Anderson when he was stinking up every week? No logic in that one.

DC Muskie
01-05-2010, 11:30 AM
It's not like Brady tore it up whegot in there. Heck the only things Brady could really do was manage the two minute offense.

I do agree that the lockeroom changed for the better. But I would hate to start over again and set ourselves back three or four more years.

xavierj
01-05-2010, 11:32 AM
J-

You'd had two winning seasons since 1991.

The Browns have had three. And we weren't even around for three years. So you have had three more years to win more games than you lost, and you still couldn't do that. And yet the Browns are a joke?

You think Browns fans are like UC fans...are you fing kidding me?????

You went to the Super Bowl in 1989. That was an entire year before I entered high school. That was three years BEFORE UC's last Final Four appearance. Great, you got to experience two Super Bowls. Both in the Reagan administration. Awesome. I bet you think the Chiefs and Vikings are both really good as well.

I don't rip on Bengals. Especially this year. I got too much hate for the Steelers and the Ravens. The Bengals aren't even on my radar screen. I actually enjoyed watching them beat the Steelers and the Ravens. So congrats.

Seriously this is a thread about whether Browns fans want Mangini back. But thanks for stopping by to tell us that the Bengals are somehow more revelant then the Browns. Like I said, I love it when Bengal fans talk shit.

Relax you sound like a thin skinned UC or UD fan. The Browns blow, the Bengals blow. Who cares. I was just messing with you guys anyway and in my own way pointed out that the owner of the Browns should have his brain checked if he brings back Manidiot. The guy blew in New York and he still blows. I thought the Browns were beyond stupid for hiring a coach who just got fired in the first place. The Browns need to get more creative and I think Holmgren is a step in the right direction but time will tell if they are just recycling another big or hot name like they have been doing for as long as I can remember. The Bengals for as dumb as they are took a chance on Marvin when no one else would and the guy has two division titles and is now has the highest winning % of any coach in Bengals history. That tells me Marvin must be one hell of a coach because he basically works for three people who could not get an AD job at a local high school in Cincinnati and the only reason they run the Bengals is because they hit the genetic lottery. I mean Mike Brown's kid used to play softball with me and the kid was clueless. I once had to buy him a beer because he had no money with him.

Masterofreality
01-05-2010, 11:34 AM
Maybe I'm going against the grain here, but I'd say give him one more year. The fact of the matter is that what the Browns did in the last 4 games is exactly the kind of football that has to be played up here in the tundra late in the year. Smashmouth, run the ball football. Alex Mack, the Browns rookie center, was a Mangini draft pick and the kid fit right in with the O-Line, improved it and played like a Pro Bowler. After he was able to put Jamal Lewis on the shelf, and had a clear use of Harrison, the run game was fantastic. In many respects, the short controlled passing game of the West Coast offense is very complimentary of the running game. Mangini and Holmgren may not be as diametrically opposed as some think. Defensively its a 3-4 vs a 4-3 but throw Sean Rodgers back on the D-Line and you've got your 4th lineman.

The biggest hole the Browns have is their defensive backfield. Other than Eric Wright, the whole secondary is a sieve. If they can fix that, seeing the way the players rallied around Mangini at the year's end, I'd say Mangini has a chance to do a good job here.

The wild card is if Mangini can or will accept his role as coach and personnel advisor only. If he still has a power complex, he'll be gone.

powerofX
01-05-2010, 11:36 AM
I voted for stay just because they need some sort of constant.

They may need a new d coordinator if Holmgren insists on a 4-3 or they may need a new o coordinator if Holmgren insists on a west coast offense. If he insists on both, then Mangini would be out because he'd have no face with players if he had to bring in two new coordinators to run a system he doesn't advocate.

I do think that the new GM will be more of a highly paid scout/evaluator since Holmgren would have a lot of GM duties like contract approvals, etc.

DC Muskie
01-05-2010, 11:55 AM
Relax you sound like a thin skinned UC or UD fan.

Do you just say that to anyone who disagrees with you? I am neither a UC or UD fan. Thin or thick skinned. You're the one that keeps bringing them up in reference. Maybe I should relax and chalk it up to some dumbass Price Hilljack who can't come up with anything better.


I was just messing with you guys anyway and in my own way pointed out that the owner of the Browns should have his brain checked if he brings back Manidiot. The guy blew in New York and he still blows. I thought the Browns were beyond stupid for hiring a coach who just got fired in the first place.

You realize the Jets have the exact same record this season as they did last season right? And Mangini led them to the playoffs his first year there right? The Browns had spent a lot of time hiring guys who weren't head coaches in the first place, and that didn't exactly work out. While I wasn't crazy about the hiring, it wasn't completely shocking. At least they didn't go out and hire Bill Walsh's kid because hey, he was Bill Walsh's kid.


The Bengals for as dumb as they are took a chance on Marvin when no one else would and the guy has two division titles and is now has the highest winning % of any coach in Bengals history. That tells me Marvin must be one hell of a coach because he basically works for three people who could not get an AD job at a local high school in Cincinnati and the only reason they run the Bengals is because they hit the genetic lottery. I mean Mike Brown's kid used to play softball with me and the kid was clueless. I once had to buy him a beer because he had no money with him.

I appreciate the idea that the Bengals are so dumb they hired they most incredible coach. I can only hope the Browns can be so stupid.

gladdenguy
01-05-2010, 12:10 PM
I love it when Bengals fan talk shit.

I'm not sure where the Mike Brown connection comes from, but I guess when you haven't been able to talk shit, you would tend to screw it up.

Bengals fans can't talk shit to many fans of opponents but one fanbase they can and are able to talk shit to is Browns fans. That organization is pathetic. The only thing worse than the actual organization is the Browns fans who actually believe the Browns are going to be good every year.
(sorry vee and MOR, this does not include you)

As for Mangini, I say go..Holmgren can do better

XU05and07
01-05-2010, 12:17 PM
Mangina should never have been hired!

xavierj
01-05-2010, 12:20 PM
OK keep the guy then and you will be saying the same thing next season. In the NFL teams win games at the end of the year when it does not matter and people think things are fixed. The Bengals did it several times and it rarely worked. Last year the Bengals won at the end of the year but it had nothing to do with this year. They won because the other teams laid down. If it had anything to do with this year then why didn't the Bengals keep Fitzpatrick since he saved the season? The Bengals have won this year because they added pieces and got their QB back. They had basically an entire new line this year.

The Bills crushed the Colts Sunday and drilled KC a couple of weeks before that but then they cleaned house. Oakland beat Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and Denver but they will fire their coach. It's what you do when things do not work.

Maybe Mangini will turn out to be awesome, but it is doubtful, especially now that he will have two guys telling him what to do. I would think they are hiring a GM and Holmgren to clean house. If not what is the point?

I also have anther question for Browns fans. Do you think you can win with either Quinn or Anderson as the QB? I am an ND fan and a fan of Quinn but I do not think the Browns can consistently win with either guy. Look at the teams in the Playoffs and teams that win Super Bowls. You have to have a QB that has it and Cleveland does not have that. You have a line that seems decent and a defense that is not bad. Cleveland needs to find a good smart QB or it will not matter who the coach is but a good QB might be another year away.

You f'ers happy. Maybe you can edit my work and give me a grade.

Pete Delkus
01-05-2010, 12:24 PM
Maybe I'm going against the grain here, but I'd say give him one more year. The fact of the matter is that what the Browns did in the last 4 games is exactly the kind of football that has to be played up here in the tundra late in the year. Smashmouth, run the ball football. Alex Mack, the Browns rookie center, was a Mangini draft pick and the kid fit right in with the O-Line, improved it and played like a Pro Bowler. After he was able to put Jamal Lewis on the shelf, and had a clear use of Harrison, the run game was fantastic. In many respects, the short controlled passing game of the West Coast offense is very complimentary of the running game. Mangini and Holmgren may not be as diametrically opposed as some think. Defensively its a 3-4 vs a 4-3 but throw Sean Rodgers back on the D-Line and you've got your 4th lineman.

The biggest hole the Browns have is their defensive backfield. Other than Eric Wright, the whole secondary is a sieve. If they can fix that, seeing the way the players rallied around Mangini at the year's end, I'd say Mangini has a chance to do a good job here.

The wild card is if Mangini can or will accept his role as coach and personnel advisor only. If he still has a power complex, he'll be gone.


Agree with what is included above. The Browns didn't go out and beat Indy on the road, but did put together some good football at the end of the year. Mack, Thomas, Steinbach and Hadnot showed they could open some holes and give the QB some time. I also agree that McDonald and the nickle package was awful this year. However, I would love to add another OLB/DE to the mix with the first pick and wouldn't be pissed with 2 guys that still have games to play: Derrick Morgan from GT or Sergio Kindle from Texas. Pairing one of these guys with Ruben, Rogers, Robaire, Roth, Bowens, Wimbly, Tresnick, Coleman, and D'Qwell...should give you more than enough depth and pressure on the QB to help out the DB's.

However, If Eric Berry is still on the board with 7th pick, well that would be hard to pass up...but he will be gone.

I would say goodbye to DA and give Quinn his last chance...and pay Cribbs and make sure to keep Roth, Vickers and Harrison.

The Browns will need FA and draft help at the WR,CB, RT,S and possibly an upgrade at TE...However, Royal, Moore, Heiden and Gaines aren't the worst in the league.

My thoughts.

powerofX
01-05-2010, 12:32 PM
here is my late round dark horse QB to draft as a project...Rusty Smith from Florida Atlantic. Keep Quinn...veteren FA #2, and Smith #3.

Browns need DB, LB, RT, in that order, in my opinion.

Tardy Turtle
01-05-2010, 12:45 PM
xavierj,

Let me introduce you to my friend "Paragraphs." He makes posts readable and helps deliver any salient points much more easily.

Hypnotized by your walls of text,
- TT

Xman95
01-05-2010, 12:51 PM
First, I am not a Mangini fan. I don't dislike the guy, but I definitely wasn't throwing a party when they hired him. Having said that, he should get at least another year.

They brought him in because they thought the team was a mess after 2008. So why on earth would they think that a team lacking talent would suddenly take the field as a Super Bowl contender in Week 1? Hopefully Lerner and others didn't think that because it would have been way, way off.

Mangini took over a team in serious need of talent and discipline. He weeded out headcases like Winslow and Edwards. He cracked down on people like Jerome Harrison. Did players like it? Not at first. Who would like going from Club Med to Boot Camp? This team had been a bunch of pampered babies for several years. There was no accountability for the players. Mangini came in and made them work and be accountable.

Things definitely started slowly and he probably mishandled the QB situation. I don't think that's the reason for the struggles at the spot, but it could have been handled better. Personally, I think he feels Anderson is the better QB but, if he had named him the starter right away, the fan base would have gone crazy because they wanted Quinn. When DA didn't claim the job right away, it made the situation worse. Eventually he had to go with Quinn because he had a slightly better camp. It was handled poorly, but Mangini learned and grew during the season, as did the team.

At the end of the year, a 1-11 team was still out there playing hard. No names like Benard and Moore were looking like legit NFL players. Jerome Harrison was showing a new dedication and a workmanlike approach. The offensive line started to gel. The defense showed up and played their asses off...in the process knocking guys like Toothlessberger on theirs.

Even guys like Josh Cribbs, a player who could be bitter due to contract issues, have said Mangini should return. The general feeling is that his system and approach started to be accepted by the team and when that happened it started leading to success. This wasn't a vacation getaway anymore. This was a football team.

I understand the "Holmgren needs to start his way" approach. But, if you're Holmgren and put your ego aside, wouldn't you want your way to start as a winning way? Mangini, at least for year one, gives you the best chance for that. Why not see what happens and if what he started truly was the foundation for a winning organization? That would also allow Holmgren to worry about finding a GM and people who can best utilize the 11 picks Mangini stockpiled for the upcoming draft.

xavierj
01-05-2010, 01:10 PM
xavierj,

Let me introduce you to my friend "Paragraphs." He makes posts readable and helps deliver any salient points much more easily.

Hypnotized by your walls of text,
- TT

Thanks. I will keep that in mind next time. Wait no I won't. Didn't know we were in a high school English class.

Tardy Turtle
01-05-2010, 01:40 PM
I can't really force you to use paragraphs, just thought I'd ask. Plus I think that paragraphs were part of the elementary school curriculum so if you didn't know how to use them by the time you got to high school then you probably should have been in the remedial English classes. I'm only trying to say that using logical breaks in your posts can make it easier for everyone to digest your ideas and make for better discussion. Most people are going to see the giant block of text and say, "What is this shit, I can't read any of this since it all runs together so I'm not going to bother reading it at all." That's hardly the way to generate or continue discussion. You know what's pretty good? Beer. One time I had a lot of beer (probably too much) and ended up in a ditch. Not from driving but from walking. Ask 94GRAD, he can verify. This one time I went to a Xavier game and caught one of those little white balls that the cheerleaders throw during a time out. That's also a true story. I've memorized the words to "Happy Birthday." Want to hear them? "Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you! Happy birthday, dear ______! Happy birthday to you!" Some people like to add "And many more!" after that but that's purely personal preference. So this old woman pulled out in front of me the other day and I honked at her but I don't thnk it did any good since she was about 135 years old and probably can't hear a damn thing anyway. Chinese food is good, but if you're watching your sodium intake then you're probably better off keeping it to a minimum. Isn't Lance McAllister a complete douchebag? If you don't think so you're wrong. I haven't been to the movies in forever, which sucks. Every time something comes out that I want to see I say, "I should go see that." But I never get around to it. How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? The active ingredients of Gold Bold Extra Strength Medicated Body Lotion are as follows: Dimethicone 5% (skin protectant), Menthol 0.5% (Anti-itch). This sounds pretty dangerous, eh? Rule 85 (b): "A Minor penalty or, at the discretion of the Referee, a Major penalty and a Game Misconduct penalty shall be assessed any player who uses his feet to knock an opponents skates out from under him with a kicking or leg dragging motion from behind ("slew footing")." (Canadian Hockey Referee’s Case Book/Rule Combination, 2001, pg. 221). So don't ever slew foot someone, OK? If you're still reading this then bully for you. Peace.

Pete Delkus
01-05-2010, 01:55 PM
I can't really force you to use paragraphs, just thought I'd ask. Plus I think that paragraphs were part of the elementary school curriculum so if you didn't know how to use them .................................................. ..............someone, OK? If you're still reading this then bully for you. Peace.

I agree and I read the entire thing.
Bully for Me... and I'm a lad who doesn't say "And Many More". I just convey I'm a Jackass by starting the song 12 octaves lower than anyone esle.

GO Browns!

MFurey
01-05-2010, 05:16 PM
I hope they keep Mangini but I think its doubtful. I took Mangini a while to change the attitude with the team and to weed out the problem players. With a severe lack of talent the team played hard @ the end of the season. The Browns should be built on a stong running game and defense.

Also they should keep Mike Furrey

powerofX
01-05-2010, 05:50 PM
Also they should keep Mike Furrey

He can go...he doesn't even spell his own name correctly.

BiggieXU
01-05-2010, 05:52 PM
I'm leaning toward stay. This is the first year the team didn't absolutely quit down the stretch, but that couldna been because it was a lot of backups playing (presumably) for their jobs moreso than entrenched starters would.

BiggieXU
01-05-2010, 05:55 PM
I can't really force you to use paragraphs, just thought I'd ask. Plus I think that paragraphs were part of the elementary school curriculum so if you didn't know how to use them by the time you got to high school then you probably should have been in the remedial English classes. I'm only trying to say that using logical breaks in your posts can make it easier for everyone to digest your ideas and make for better discussion. Most people are going to see the giant block of text and say, "What is this shit, I can't read any of this since it all runs together so I'm not going to bother reading it at all." That's hardly the way to generate or continue discussion. You know what's pretty good? Beer. One time I had a lot of beer (probably too much) and ended up in a ditch. Not from driving but from walking. Ask 94GRAD, he can verify. This one time I went to a Xavier game and caught one of those little white balls that the cheerleaders throw during a time out. That's also a true story. I've memorized the words to "Happy Birthday." Want to hear them? "Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you! Happy birthday, dear ______! Happy birthday to you!" Some people like to add "And many more!" after that but that's purely personal preference. So this old woman pulled out in front of me the other day and I honked at her but I don't thnk it did any good since she was about 135 years old and probably can't hear a damn thing anyway. Chinese food is good, but if you're watching your sodium intake then you're probably better off keeping it to a minimum. Isn't Lance McAllister a complete douchebag? If you don't think so you're wrong. I haven't been to the movies in forever, which sucks. Every time something comes out that I want to see I say, "I should go see that." But I never get around to it. How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? The active ingredients of Gold Bold Extra Strength Medicated Body Lotion are as follows: Dimethicone 5% (skin protectant), Menthol 0.5% (Anti-itch). This sounds pretty dangerous, eh? Rule 85 (b): "A Minor penalty or, at the discretion of the Referee, a Major penalty and a Game Misconduct penalty shall be assessed any player who uses his feet to knock an opponents skates out from under him with a kicking or leg dragging motion from behind ("slew footing")." (Canadian Hockey Referee’s Case Book/Rule Combination, 2001, pg. 221). So don't ever slew foot someone, OK? If you're still reading this then bully for you. Peace.
I agree, his posts were the only ones I skipped due to the format.

BiggieXU
01-05-2010, 05:56 PM
He can go...he doesn't even spell his own name correctly.
Best Free Safety ever, only because it's funny to see a #87 in the D backfield.

Xman95
01-05-2010, 06:48 PM
only because it's funny to see a #87 in the D backfield.

Actually, that happens quite often with the Browns. Actually, it can be 87, 88, 85, 80. Heck, 23, 25, 33...running backs are often seen in the Browns' D backfield. Unfortunately all those players have the ball in their hands and play for the opposing team.

Masterofreality
01-05-2010, 07:05 PM
I can't really force you to use paragraphs, just thought I'd ask..............................If you're still reading this then bully for you. Peace.

XavierJ, I love you man, but you've just been smacked......hard!

Furrey is a good special teams player. Period.

Pay Josh Cribbs.

Evan Moore catches everything that is thrown to him.

Derrick Anderson would be a great quarterback in the CFL.

Brady Quinn should be a back up.

Keep Mangini for one more year. If he fails, hire John Fox. His contract is up after next year.

94GRAD
01-05-2010, 07:07 PM
i can't really force you to use paragraphs, just thought i'd ask. Plus i think that paragraphs were part of the elementary school curriculum so if you didn't know how to use them by the time you got to high school then you probably should have been in the remedial english classes. I'm only trying to say that using logical breaks in your posts can make it easier for everyone to digest your ideas and make for better discussion. Most people are going to see the giant block of text and say, "what is this shit, i can't read any of this since it all runs together so i'm not going to bother reading it at all." that's hardly the way to generate or continue discussion. You know what's pretty good? Beer. One time i had a lot of beer (probably too much) and ended up in a ditch. Not from driving but from walking. Ask 94grad, he can verify. This one time i went to a xavier game and caught one of those little white balls that the cheerleaders throw during a time out. That's also a true story. I've memorized the words to "happy birthday." want to hear them? "happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you! Happy birthday, dear ______! Happy birthday to you!" some people like to add "and many more!" after that but that's purely personal preference. So this old woman pulled out in front of me the other day and i honked at her but i don't thnk it did any good since she was about 135 years old and probably can't hear a damn thing anyway. Chinese food is good, but if you're watching your sodium intake then you're probably better off keeping it to a minimum. Isn't lance mcallister a complete douchebag? If you don't think so you're wrong. I haven't been to the movies in forever, which sucks. Every time something comes out that i want to see i say, "i should go see that." but i never get around to it. How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? The active ingredients of gold bold extra strength medicated body lotion are as follows: Dimethicone 5% (skin protectant), menthol 0.5% (anti-itch). This sounds pretty dangerous, eh? Rule 85 (b): "a minor penalty or, at the discretion of the referee, a major penalty and a game misconduct penalty shall be assessed any player who uses his feet to knock an opponents skates out from under him with a kicking or leg dragging motion from behind ("slew footing")." (canadian hockey referee’s case book/rule combination, 2001, pg. 221). So don't ever slew foot someone, ok? If you're still reading this then bully for you. Peace.

verified!

BENWAR
01-05-2010, 07:49 PM
I can't really force you to use paragraphs, just thought I'd ask. Plus I think that paragraphs were part of the elementary school curriculum so if you didn't know how to use them by the time you got to high school then you probably should have been in the remedial English classes. I'm only trying to say that using logical breaks in your posts can make it easier for everyone to digest your ideas and make for better discussion. Most people are going to see the giant block of text and say, "What is this shit, I can't read any of this since it all runs together so I'm not going to bother reading it at all." That's hardly the way to generate or continue discussion. You know what's pretty good? Beer. One time I had a lot of beer (probably too much) and ended up in a ditch. Not from driving but from walking. Ask 94GRAD, he can verify. This one time I went to a Xavier game and caught one of those little white balls that the cheerleaders throw during a time out. That's also a true story. I've memorized the words to "Happy Birthday." Want to hear them? "Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you! Happy birthday, dear ______! Happy birthday to you!" Some people like to add "And many more!" after that but that's purely personal preference. So this old woman pulled out in front of me the other day and I honked at her but I don't thnk it did any good since she was about 135 years old and probably can't hear a damn thing anyway. Chinese food is good, but if you're watching your sodium intake then you're probably better off keeping it to a minimum. Isn't Lance McAllister a complete douchebag? If you don't think so you're wrong. I haven't been to the movies in forever, which sucks. Every time something comes out that I want to see I say, "I should go see that." But I never get around to it. How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? The active ingredients of Gold Bold Extra Strength Medicated Body Lotion are as follows: Dimethicone 5% (skin protectant), Menthol 0.5% (Anti-itch). This sounds pretty dangerous, eh? Rule 85 (b): "A Minor penalty or, at the discretion of the Referee, a Major penalty and a Game Misconduct penalty shall be assessed any player who uses his feet to knock an opponents skates out from under him with a kicking or leg dragging motion from behind ("slew footing")." (Canadian Hockey Referee’s Case Book/Rule Combination, 2001, pg. 221). So don't ever slew foot someone, OK? If you're still reading this then bully for you. Peace.

"Rack him!"

vee4xu
01-06-2010, 05:19 PM
As a Bengals fan I hope they keep him. The guy is a terrible coach and the two extra wins a year against the Browns is always nice. Keeping him would also be what Mike Brown would do. So the Browns can continue their losing ways keeping him would be the only logical thing to do.

The Browns were 4-0 in their last 4 games. How did the Bengals do over their last 4? I am happy for you Muskie fans here that the Bengals are playing this week, but come on they have not yet reached dynasty status.

p.s. - the Browns had two pro bowlers this year. How many did the Bengals have again?

94GRAD
01-06-2010, 06:07 PM
The Browns were 4-0 in their last 4 games. How did the Bengals do over their last 4? I am happy for you Muskie fans here that the Bengals are playing this week, but come on they have not yet reached dynasty status.

p.s. - the Browns had two pro bowlers this year. How many did the Bengals have again?

Nor will they ever.

PS- I would much rather have zero pro bowl and make the playoffs every year, than have two and never make the playoffs.

xeus
01-06-2010, 06:37 PM
I can't really force you to use paragraphs, just thought I'd ask. Plus I think that paragraphs were part of the elementary school curriculum so if you didn't know how to use them by the time you got to high school then you probably should have been in the remedial English classes. I'm only trying to say that using logical breaks in your posts can make it easier for everyone to digest your ideas and make for better discussion. Most people are going to see the giant block of text and say, "What is this shit, I can't read any of this since it all runs together so I'm not going to bother reading it at all." That's hardly the way to generate or continue discussion. You know what's pretty good? Beer. One time I had a lot of beer (probably too much) and ended up in a ditch. Not from driving but from walking. Ask 94GRAD, he can verify. This one time I went to a Xavier game and caught one of those little white balls that the cheerleaders throw during a time out. That's also a true story. I've memorized the words to "Happy Birthday." Want to hear them? "Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you! Happy birthday, dear ______! Happy birthday to you!" Some people like to add "And many more!" after that but that's purely personal preference. So this old woman pulled out in front of me the other day and I honked at her but I don't thnk it did any good since she was about 135 years old and probably can't hear a damn thing anyway. Chinese food is good, but if you're watching your sodium intake then you're probably better off keeping it to a minimum. Isn't Lance McAllister a complete douchebag? If you don't think so you're wrong. I haven't been to the movies in forever, which sucks. Every time something comes out that I want to see I say, "I should go see that." But I never get around to it. How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? The active ingredients of Gold Bold Extra Strength Medicated Body Lotion are as follows: Dimethicone 5% (skin protectant), Menthol 0.5% (Anti-itch). This sounds pretty dangerous, eh? Rule 85 (b): "A Minor penalty or, at the discretion of the Referee, a Major penalty and a Game Misconduct penalty shall be assessed any player who uses his feet to knock an opponents skates out from under him with a kicking or leg dragging motion from behind ("slew footing")." (Canadian Hockey Referee’s Case Book/Rule Combination, 2001, pg. 221). So don't ever slew foot someone, OK? If you're still reading this then bully for you. Peace.

That's top shelf. Keep up the good work TT.

vee4xu
01-06-2010, 06:44 PM
Nor will they ever.

PS- I would much rather have zero pro bowl and make the playoffs every year, than have two and never make the playoffs.

And to whom are you referring with that comment. Can't be the Bengals who have made the playoffs exactly one more time (2) than the Browns (1) since 1999.

94GRAD
01-06-2010, 06:59 PM
And to whom are you referring with that comment. Can't be the Bengals who have made the playoffs exactly one more time (2) than the Browns (1) since 1999.

Let me clarify. If you had the choice of following a team that made the playoffs with no pro bowlers or a team that had two pro bowlers and didn't make the playoffs, whom would you choose.
Pro bowl players don't mean a bag of poop to me if your team doesn't do anything with them(ie playoffs). I'm happy your team won the last four game of the season. I'm happier I get to go to Paul Brown Stadium Saturday to watch mine.

vee4xu
01-06-2010, 07:11 PM
Let me clarify. If you had the choice of following a team that made the playoffs with no pro bowlers or a team that had two pro bowlers and didn't make the playoffs, whom would you choose.
Pro bowl players don't mean a bag of poop to me if your team doesn't do anything with them(ie playoffs). I'm happy your team won the last four game of the season. I'm happier I get to go to Paul Brown Stadium Saturday to watch mine.

Okay, so just let me clarify. You were in fact talking about the Bengals when you said a team that makes the playoffs "every year" (your words, not mine). Am I right? If so, then you are one silly mofo, or this is the first year you've ever followed the NFL.

vee4xu
01-06-2010, 07:17 PM
Is this what you meant by every year:

Jan. 8, 2006 - AFC Wild Card - Pittsburgh 31, Cincinnati 17

• Jan. 13, 1991 - AFC Divisional - Oakland 20, Cincinnati 10

• Jan. 6, 1991 - AFC Wild Card - Cincinnati 41, Houston 14

• Jan. 22, 1989 - Super Bowl XXIII - San Francisco 20, Cincinnati 16

• Jan. 8, 1989 - AFC Championship - Cincinnati 21, Buffalo 10

• Dec. 31, 1988 - AFC Divisional - Cincinnati 21, Seattle 13

• Jan. 9, 1983 - AFC First Round - N.Y. Jets 44, Cincinnati 17

• Jan. 24, 1982 - Super Bowl XVI - San Francisco 26, Cincinnati 21

• Jan. 10, 1982 - AFC Championship - Cincinnati 27, San Diego 7

I think you meant always makes the playoffs at least once a decade since 1980. Hey if they win Saturday, it will be their first playoff win since 1991. Good luck!

Fireball
01-06-2010, 07:32 PM
I'll bet any Steelers or Ravens fans who happen to be reading this thread are laughing their asses off. Bungles and Brownies fans thumping their chests at each other talking shit about who is better.

I'm a Bengals fan and I know better than to start talking shit to to anyone. We last won a playoff game almost 20 years ago! That's no reason to brag about anything.

So seriously? All of us Bengals and all of you Browns fans should probably just shut up and save some of your dignity. Really.

94GRAD
01-06-2010, 07:38 PM
This is what I meant by "every year." If "every year" your team has two pro bowlers and my team has none, I prefer to hang my hat with a playoff team.
How about this, both of our teams/organizations are normally horrible. I'm happy my team is in the playoffs.

vee4xu
01-06-2010, 07:49 PM
I'll bet any Steelers or Ravens fans who happen to be reading this thread are laughing their asses off. Bungles and Brownies fans thumping their chests at each other talking shit about who is better.

I'm a Bengals fan and I know better than to start talking shit to to anyone. We last won a playoff game almost 20 years ago! That's no reason to brag about anything.

So seriously? All of us Bengals and all of you Browns fans should probably just shut up and save some of your dignity. Really.

In case you are including me in the chest thumping crowd, for the record, though I am a Browns fan I am making fun of the Browns. Then I was busting 94's chops. Hard to tell tone with just typed words.

Fireball
01-06-2010, 08:03 PM
In case you are including me in the chest thumping crowd, for the record, though I am a Browns fan I am making fun of the Browns. Then I was busting 94's chops. Hard to tell tone with just typed words.

Wasn't really meant for anyone in particular, vee...just for those who are seriously talking shit to the other team's fans. If you were joking, then you are excluded :)

vee4xu
01-06-2010, 08:11 PM
Wasn't really meant for anyone in particular, vee...just for those who are seriously talking shit to the other team's fans. If you were joking, then you are excluded :)

I was joking. The Browns are really bad.

Xman95
01-07-2010, 08:49 AM
I was joking. The Browns are really bad.

But things are looking up. They just slapped one of their best players in the face by offering him an insulting contract. Nice...glad Holmgren is on board to change things. Wait, he was the one who just offered the contract. It's so great to be a Browns fan!

Frank D.
01-07-2010, 09:43 AM
But things are looking up. They just slapped one of their best players in the face by offering him an insulting contract. Nice...glad Holmgren is on board to change things. Wait, he was the one who just offered the contract. It's so great to be a Browns fan!

In Holmgren's defense, this is his third day on the job and he is attempting to sort out who is going to be his coach, G.M., etc. He has a lot on his plate.

What is the rush to give Cribbs a new contract? Last I checked, it was January 7. The season is 8 months away. I'm sure Cribbs' agent demanded an offer so the Browns gave them one. It doesn't mean it was their last offer. And Cribbs stating he was going to clean out his locker because he was offended? Go ahead - you can just bring the stuff back at some point during the 8 month offseason after you get your new contract.

Masterofreality
01-07-2010, 10:39 AM
In Holmgren's defense, this is his third day on the job and he is attempting to sort out who is going to be his coach, G.M., etc. He has a lot on his plate.

What is the rush to give Cribbs a new contract? Last I checked, it was January 7. The season is 8 months away. I'm sure Cribbs' agent demanded an offer so the Browns gave them one. It doesn't mean it was their last offer. And Cribbs stating he was going to clean out his locker because he was offended? Go ahead - you can just bring the stuff back at some point during the 8 month offseason after you get your new contract.

Honestly, I love Josh, but....

How much is a kick returner worth? The wildcat increases his value and he does play hard on special teams but he does not catch passes very well.

Maybe thet should look at Ryan Pontbriand's contract and pay Cribbs accordingly? Pontbriand makes $4,755,000 for 2009. That's a helluva salary for a specialty long snapper.

Xman95
01-07-2010, 11:53 AM
How much is a kick returner worth? The wildcat increases his value and he does play hard on special teams but he does not catch passes very well.

First, he's not just a kick returner. The argument can be made that he's the best ever at it. I don't necessarily agree with it, but the argument is there. He is definitely on the short list competing for that title.

Second, he's not horrible as a receiver. He's not great, but he's still developing. At best he'll be a #2, although he'll probably wind up as a #3. Unfortunately it's kind of difficult to improve as a route runner when you're also being asked to be the main player in a new branch of the offense, the wildcat. In addition, prior to the season, Mangini talked about the possibility of Josh playing DB. Then, toward the end of the year, there was chatter about maybe getting him to line up as a traditional HB.

I think it's also safe to say that Cribbs has won more games and kept the Browns in more games than any other individual player over the last couple years. Through it all, the kid just kept playing and busting his ass. He's also a tremendous guy in the community. I've talked to many people in the mix out at Berea and every single one of them has raved about Josh off the field.

This guy is far more than a kick returner. He and Joe Thomas are probably the two best football players on this team.

Xman95
01-07-2010, 11:57 AM
In Holmgren's defense, this is his third day on the job and he is attempting to sort out who is going to be his coach, G.M., etc. He has a lot on his plate.

What is the rush to give Cribbs a new contract? Last I checked, it was January 7. The season is 8 months away. I'm sure Cribbs' agent demanded an offer so the Browns gave them one. It doesn't mean it was their last offer. And Cribbs stating he was going to clean out his locker because he was offended? Go ahead - you can just bring the stuff back at some point during the 8 month offseason after you get your new contract.

I'm not buying that. It wouldn't have been too difficult for Holmgren to call Josh - not the agent, but Josh - and tell him that they'll get to the contract in the near future. Explain the situation with the coach, GM, etc. and let him know that the situation will be addressed.

But you don't throw an insulting offer at the guy. That's going to make it worse than if he has to wait a few weeks.

Pete Delkus
01-07-2010, 12:11 PM
I'm not worried about Cribbs. It will get done. He has the leverage of the natioanl media and the fans...and The Big Show won't want to start out with a massive X on his back come August.

It seems Cribbs has alinged himself with some "Sir Larry Wildman" 'esque agents.

In response to the fact that the Browns are in the middle of bringing on a new President:

"It doesn't matter, because Josh is the same player whether the president is George W. Bush, Barack Obama, or John McCain," Schaffer said. "I'm not worried about that

"If the new President is better...than #16 will get his cheddar!"

Frank D.
01-07-2010, 12:27 PM
I'm not worried about Cribbs. It will get done. He has the leverage of the natioanl media and the fans...and The Big Show won't want to start out with a massive X on his back come August.

It seems Cribbs has alinged himself with some "Sir Larry Wildman" 'esque agents.

In response to the fact that the Browns are in the middle of bringing on a new President:

"It doesn't matter, because Josh is the same player whether the president is George W. Bush, Barack Obama, or John McCain," Schaffer said. "I'm not worried about that

"If the new President is better...than #16 will get his cheddar!"

Good stuff. This is my point . . . it will get done. Everyone is "insulted" by the first offer.

Cribbs wants to be in Cleveland, the Browns want to keep him. They know he is worth much more than they are paying him now. Let's not jump to conclusions.

xavierj
01-07-2010, 12:44 PM
Good stuff. This is my point . . . it will get done. Everyone is "insulted" by the first offer.

Cribbs wants to be in Cleveland, the Browns want to keep him. They know he is worth much more than they are paying him now. Let's not jump to conclusions.

God knows if they do not sign the kick return specialist they have no chance next year. They need to be more concerned with who will be able to hit open receivers then a guy who can break a kick return.

I think every teams concern going into a season after going 5-11 is too make sure we lock up the kick returner. I would think finding a guy who can play corner besides Mike Furrey or maybe finding some guys who can throw or catch a pass would be much higher on the list for Mike Holmgren.

Frank D.
01-07-2010, 12:48 PM
God knows if they do not sign the kick return specialist they have no chance next year. They need to be more concerned with who will be able to hit open receivers then a guy who can break a kick return.

I think every teams concern going into a season after going 5-11 is too make sure we lock up the kick returner. I would think finding a guy who can play corner besides Mike Furrey or maybe finding some guys who can throw or catch a pass would be much higher on the list for Mike Holmgren.

Not only this, but we are only hearing one side of the story. For all we know, the Browns told Cribbs or his agent that they are going to take care of this, but they have a lot of things on the plate so he is going to have to wait. Maybe then Cribbs told them he was tired of waiting and wanted an offer now. So they gave him an offer. I could see it as having gone down like this. The fact is, we don't know and there is no reason to conclude they won't eventually come to an agreement.

Xman95
01-07-2010, 02:45 PM
Well, apparently we have the answer. Here's the story:

Mangini to return for second season (http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_article.aspx?storyid=128453&catid=45)

PMI
01-07-2010, 02:51 PM
If Snyder gets the urge to overpay Cribbs to come home than Cleveland fans can waive goodbye, regardless of "how much he wants to be there" at the mistake by the lake.

powerofX
01-07-2010, 02:52 PM
Well, apparently we have the answer. Here's the story:

Mangini to return for second season (http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_article.aspx?storyid=128453&catid=45)

Now we can just wait for the rest of my predictions to come true from earlier in the thread.

Here's to an improvement to 6-10 next year!

Masterofreality
01-07-2010, 03:47 PM
Book this:

Unless Mangini wins next year, he's gone. Replacement?- John Fox who's in his last contract year with Carolina.

Holmgren is here for the long haul- 10 years. He'll take one year to really evaluate while he sees if the last 4 games were a mirage or real.

Derrick Anderson? Gone, maybe in a trade to Seattle for the rights to Matt Hasselbeck who will soon be a free agent. Hasselbeck is Holmgren's guy.

Brady Quinn? Let me introduce you to Mr. Pine, son.

Xman95
01-07-2010, 03:55 PM
If Snyder gets the urge to overpay Cribbs to come home than Cleveland fans can waive goodbye, regardless of "how much he wants to be there" at the mistake by the lake.

Snyder's a douchebag. You know how people always make fun of George Steinbrenner? Well Snyder's not even good enough to be on that level. He's closer to the dumb caricature that people use to mock Steinbrenner. Glad he threw all that money at Haynesworth. That worked out well. Also, he won't be able to throw that money at Cribbs on the free agent market for another three years because that's what's left on his contract with Cleveland.

Right now it's not about Cribbs going somewhere else. It's about the team taking care of one of its best players and probably the player most popular among the fan base.

Frank D.
01-08-2010, 06:33 AM
If Snyder gets the urge to overpay Cribbs to come home than Cleveland fans can waive goodbye, regardless of "how much he wants to be there" at the mistake by the lake.

Cribbs has 3 more years left on his current contract. Unless the Browns decide to trade him to the Redskins, Snyder can't do anything.

Frank D.
01-08-2010, 06:38 AM
Book this:

Unless Mangini wins next year, he's gone. Replacement?- John Fox who's in his last contract year with Carolina.

Holmgren is here for the long haul- 10 years. He'll take one year to really evaluate while he sees if the last 4 games were a mirage or real.

MOR is right on. Holmgren has been out of football for the last year. Who knows how closely he has been following the Browns and the league in general? I think it is wise move to keep these guys here and have the opportunity to see how everything and everyone works on a day-to-day basis.

Mangini wouldn't have made some of the personnel moves he made if he thought he was only going to be here one year - he weakened the team in the short term to potentially strengthen it in the future. Do I think Mangini does some stupid things? Of course, but he now has a chance to simply coach the team. And his on-the-field results (both in New York and here) have been decent - based on talent in both places, I certainly don't think his teams underachieved.

Pete Delkus
01-08-2010, 09:10 AM
Included is a very pro Mangini article written a few days ago...with some solid points...written by the web site- Read and React.

Browns fans have been through the fire during the expansion era and during this season. It seems they are finally on the other side– except they aren’t. The men and women of the Flats, wait upon Mike Holmgren’s decision to retain or let go of Eric Mangini. What at once looked like a season of ruin for Mangini now looks like one of the better rebuilding jobs done in recent memory. Not some magical overnight blessing from the football gods that sends the team into the playoffs only to be brought down to earth the next year. No, it was a methodical, brick-by-brick construction job that can only be appreciated by stepping back after the season was finished to see the straight lines, quality workmanship, and effort.

Mangini, like no other coach I can remember, put his head down and stuck to his plan, even while the reporters (Clayton, the Plain Dealer hacks) sharpened their knives, gleefully stabbing Mangini at every turn, their contempt barely contained in their writing. Browns fans understandably impatient, watching at times a football team looking like one of the worst ever and reacting to incorrect reporting and poor analysis, called for his head. Veteran players used to the soft, mincy ways of Romeo Crennell dug their heels in the sand, complained loudly to their agents, who complained loudly to the media, creating a firestorm of bad energy. Randy Lerner, the entirely incompetent owner, without courage, without patience, wanting to prove how much he cares for the Browns fans (although strangely absent from the last two home games) goes out to hire a “credible football leader” in Mike Holmgren, who has the tedious nickname of “Big Show” to be the “CZAR” of football operations. The national and local media celebrate this move.

The hiring of Holmgren may have been a smart move (although there is something wildly mediocre about Holmgren that I can’t put my finger on) in the beginning of the season, or even at the end when the dust had settled and the lockers cleared. It was not a good move, however, done in the midst of a seemingly disastrous season– it was a panic move. It has now created a stomach-turning decision for Holmgren and for the Cleveland faithful, a decision that deep in the fog of a 1-11 season seemed easy. Keep Mangini or let him go. Times have changed.

Mangini and the Browns reeled off 4 straight wins to end the season. Hard-nosed, disciplined style wins, ramming the ball down teams’ throats, taking Big Jen into the dirt like a doughy man-piñata, and absolutely dismantling a Jaguars team that should have been desperate to get to the playoffs. It was for Browns fans like a fog was lifted. Mangini didn’t seem like the hapless, power-hungry imbecile as portrayed in the local and national media. Suddenly he seemed like a man with a plan, with vision, and even more he seemed to have the courage, the patience, to build a winner in the model of Cleveland itself, a hard-working city that has tired of being a doormat and now will not be outworked, or outsmarted, ready to scrap and scrape, tired of being bullied, ready to finally get off the ground and punch someone straight in the mouth. It felt good.

Mangini, since the hiring of Holmgren, took on a different persona as well. Who could not admire the humble, plain-talking way he handled the increasing pressure and scrutiny. He preached the gospel of one-week-at-a-time, and not getting distracted, and then proved its success by somehow managing to get his team prepared every week while his future was in doubt. His players responded. I have watched almost all of his press conferences since the hiring of Holmgren, and it once again showed me how biased the media can be. Mangini comes across as polite, he answers each question patiently, describes different aspects of football, and takes the time to publicly honor players that have done well– even the practice players– and uses the word “WE” in both successes and failures. This is the guy that angered the media? It’s perplexing.

I have heard that the “Spygate” scandal is what has made him such a target to reporters and the hacks at ESPN. Maybe they didn’t like being scooped. Maybe they knew all along and were embarrassed. Much like steroids in baseball and the Tiger Woods scandal, once again it shed light on the fact that sports reporting is not the same as political reporting. They are mouthpieces for the teams and sports. They, like the owners and players and coaches, want to keep it status quo. It’s a farce that pretends be something more than it is, or maybe it doesn’t, but over the years we have started to believe as fans that it’s real news and they have the fans’ interest at heart. As a Patriots fan, I have always thought what Mangini did during Spygate showed true courage. He knew it would not be popular to call out one of his brethren, much less the greatest coach of this generation, on something that sounds like it was done league wide. Not only that but he was calling out his former mentor. He was correct as well: the NFL doesn’t fine coaches hundreds of thousands of dollars and take away draft picks for nothing. Mangini showed his true colors, not as some turncoat rat, but someone who is principled and willing to make the hard choices and live with the consequences. He stood up to a bully when no one else would. Ask yourself, are the people who do not appreciate what he did or vilify him, are they telling you more about themselves or Mangini?

We want to believe what we read– we as sports fans don’t want to take the time to drill down– and we come up with opinions that we think are our own, but they are not; they are formulated by endless commentary and stories that begin to erode our own ability to see what it right in front of us. We as fans are emotional, we are invested in our teams, our players, we want to be proud of them, we lose our analytical mind, and even though we watch sports alone we fall into mob mentality that robs of us perception. We become the worst kind of animal, the kind that think they are wolves when in reality they are just sheep, huddled together, eating whatever is fed to them.

Mangini came to the Browns and did exactly what he said he was going to do. He took a team with no draft picks and no cap space, and by guile and smarts alone managed by the end of the season to net the Browns 11 picks next year and cap space to burn. He took two players considered to be the best talent on the team and traded them away for value. Edwards would have been a free agent at the end of the season. He would have left and the Browns would have had nothing. Instead they have two starters and picks, and Edwards has been exposed for what he was all along, a mid-tier talent, loud and immature, with hands of stone and heart that is squirreled away in a safe deposit box somewhere. Let him be the Jets’ problem. Winslow, a tight end with talent leaking out of his pours, but who is not able to block for a grind-it-out team that Mangini was building, is a selfish player who could not see past his own nose. Now he is the Bucs’ problem. All of these things were evident, obvious, but were represented poorly, as if he was chaining the Browns to mediocrity. Instead Mangini was cutting the Browns loose, giving them a future. Things that are good in life come with a price, hard work, dedication, selflessness; the same with football. Winslow and Edwards were not ready to do this for the Browns, for the fans, even for the money. They will forever be the poorer for it.

So Holmgren’s decision is fraught with difficulty. Brought in to be in charge, the obvious choice, the ego choice is to let go of Mangini and his coaching staff. Who could blame him if he wants to bring in his own coaches, his own staff? A cupboard that was bare and full of poison rattraps is now full of disciplined players, some talented, mostly journeymen that know the value of team football. A cupboard once bare of flexibility and possibility is now stocked with picks, cap room and hope. How easy would it be for him to come into that kitchen, sack the chef and take ownership, to take full credit for a team that seems poised to start winning, a team that after years of mismanagement looks to be actually what it has pretended to be all of these years, a NFL franchise a city can be proud of.

I hope that Holmgren makes the hard choice, a choice that is not about credit or about one person, a choice the requires him to set aside his own ego and agenda. A choice that will in the end take the spotlight away from him. It’s a choice that will not make him the savior of the Browns, because that person is already in place. It’s a choice that will reward a hard-working coach and not the poison pens of bitter reporters, a choice that will show us all if Holmgren can put aside personal glory and to do what is right, to be a man of principle, to keep Mangini and let him finish what he started.

There is something more to this than just football. It’s about the Browns and a coach that came into town with the stink of controversy around him, a coach that had fallen from grace, a coach that did exactly what he said he would do and to hell with the consequences. It is a human story, a story of a coach and a team that has come through the fire with grace and courage, and restored a little hope to a town down on its luck, to a once-proud football team that had become a laughing stock and has shown us all once again that doing what’s right isn’t easy, that in the end the only way to go through life is to be humble, to work hard, and that nothing worth having is ever given, that it must be earned. That’s Browns football, that’s Cleveland, and that is Eric Mangini and I am thankful for all three.

Frank D.
01-08-2010, 09:34 AM
Good article, Pete. I'm not as crazy about Mangini as that guy, but I think it was the right move to keep him another year.

Filthy Chilean
01-08-2010, 10:02 AM
Entertaining thread.

As a Bengals fan I agree with the, "talking shit is laughable" crowd. Sure Marvin has us out of the basement and winning is expected now as it was in the 80s, but the Bengals haven't won anything yet.

On a side note, Shittsburgh should be burned to the ground and the locals sent off to Canada. And if it's Brown, flush it down.

PMI
01-08-2010, 12:06 PM
Snyder's a douchebag. You know how people always make fun of George Steinbrenner? Well Snyder's not even good enough to be on that level. He's closer to the dumb caricature that people use to mock Steinbrenner. Glad he threw all that money at Haynesworth. That worked out well. Also, he won't be able to throw that money at Cribbs on the free agent market for another three years because that's what's left on his contract with Cleveland.

Right now it's not about Cribbs going somewhere else. It's about the team taking care of one of its best players and probably the player most popular among the fan base.


Cribbs has 3 more years left on his current contract. Unless the Browns decide to trade him to the Redskins, Snyder can't do anything.

I could care less about Cribbs and know nothing about his contract. I was just trying to push a couple Cleveland fans buttons. But I do know this: hearing Browns and Bengals fans argue about relevancy is a funny thing. It's like who's the coolest nerd. I realize the Redskins haven't done anything significant since only shortly after the last time the Ohio teams were on the radar of the fans from the other 49 states, but we still manage to stay relevant anyway. I don't know if that's a good thing or not (usually not I'd say), but I do know that if you turned on a national sports TV or radio show this week, you heard about the 4-12 Redskins more often and before you heard about the Bengals playoff game Saturday. You won't hear me defend Snyder ever. He is a big wet flopping bag of douche. But he knows how (and has the fan support still somehow) to keep our franchise wealthy and relevant despite the lack of on-field success, and that sure beats being worthless in both regards. Shouldn't you guys be Ravens fans?

Masterofreality
01-08-2010, 12:36 PM
. I realize the Redskins haven't done anything significant since only shortly after the last time the Ohio teams were on the radar of the fans from the other 49 states, but we still manage to stay relevant anyway. I don't know if that's a good thing or not (usually not I'd say), but I do know that if you turned on a national sports TV or radio show this week, you heard about the 4-12 Redskins more often and before you heard about the Bengals playoff game Saturday.

What? Like how the Potatoes up and abjectly quit in a game on national TV earlier this year?

Or......Like how they ran the single worst designed 4th down play in the history of football?

Those were the only things I've heard of relevance about that team since the milk drinker was coach.

Frank D.
01-08-2010, 12:52 PM
I could care less about Cribbs and know nothing about his contract. I was just trying to push a couple Cleveland fans buttons. But I do know this: hearing Browns and Bengals fans argue about relevancy is a funny thing. It's like who's the coolest nerd. I realize the Redskins haven't done anything significant since only shortly after the last time the Ohio teams were on the radar of the fans from the other 49 states, but we still manage to stay relevant anyway. I don't know if that's a good thing or not (usually not I'd say), but I do know that if you turned on a national sports TV or radio show this week, you heard about the 4-12 Redskins more often and before you heard about the Bengals playoff game Saturday. You won't hear me defend Snyder ever. He is a big wet flopping bag of douche. But he knows how (and has the fan support still somehow) to keep our franchise wealthy and relevant despite the lack of on-field success, and that sure beats being worthless in both regards. Shouldn't you guys be Ravens fans?

I wasn't ripping you or the Redskins, so I don't know how my post got lumped into your rant. You chose to jump in with a reply that factually made no sense, so I corrected you. And very nice on the Ravens blast at the end . . . like we haven't heard that one before:)

PMI
01-08-2010, 01:10 PM
I wasn't ripping you or the Redskins, so I don't know how my post got lumped into your rant. You chose to jump in with a reply that factually made no sense, so I corrected you. And very nice on the Ravens blast at the end . . . like we haven't heard that one before:)

I know, like I said, I was just taking some jabs at Cleveland (and Bengals) fans. But seriously, how do relevant franchises up and relocate to Baltimore?


What? Like how the Potatoes up and abjectly quit in a game on national TV earlier this year?

Or......Like how they ran the single worst designed 4th down play in the history of football?

Those were the only things I've heard of relevance about that team since the milk drinker was coach.

Really? Those were the only things you've heard? You've got pretty selective hearing...

BiggieXU
01-08-2010, 01:33 PM
Trolling having been defined...

I was actually shocked throughout this season how many times a headline about the Browns was on the front page of ESPN.com. It seemed like there was a headline almost every week, which was really weird for a 1-___ team.

Xman95
01-08-2010, 01:34 PM
Really? Those were the only things you've heard? You've got pretty selective hearing...

MOR, I have to agree with him there. Surely you hear the news when they're hiring a coach every other year. Snyder really, really wants to be the Al Davis of the East.

As for PMI's claim that Snyder keeps his team wealthy...last time I checked the Browns weren't struggling financially. And, if they make the right choice at GM, the Browns might be closer to sustainable on-field success than 'skins.

Look, I agree that the Browns and Bengals have both been garbage and to get worked up over which is a better franchise is silly. But please let it be a Steelers or Colts fan that points it out, not someone backing the sorry ass Redskins!:)

Frank D.
01-08-2010, 01:34 PM
I know, like I said, I was just taking some jabs at Cleveland (and Bengals) fans. But seriously, how do relevant franchises up and relocate to Baltimore?

What is your definition of relevancy? And why did you choose to bring that term up in the first place?

Tardy Turtle
01-08-2010, 01:54 PM
Now kids, don't make me go all "wall of text" on your asses again...

Pete Delkus
01-08-2010, 02:18 PM
I could care less about Cribbs and know nothing about his contract. I was just trying to push a couple Cleveland fans buttons. But I do know this: hearing Browns and Bengals fans argue about relevancy is a funny thing. It's like who's the coolest nerd. I realize the Redskins haven't done anything significant since only shortly after the last time the Ohio teams were on the radar of the fans from the other 49 states, but we still manage to stay relevant anyway. I don't know if that's a good thing or not (usually not I'd say), but I do know that if you turned on a national sports TV or radio show this week, you heard about the 4-12 Redskins more often and before you heard about the Bengals playoff game Saturday. You won't hear me defend Snyder ever. He is a big wet flopping bag of douche. But he knows how (and has the fan support still somehow) to keep our franchise wealthy and relevant despite the lack of on-field success, and that sure beats being worthless in both regards. Shouldn't you guys be Ravens fans?


The periodic breaks from work I allow myself to take seem to lead me to read views on Xavier or topics like the Browns…my sporting interests. However, I would really have no interest in hunkering down to jab with people about a team I have no connection with in the least.

However, Good for you…that’s time well spent.

DC Muskie
01-08-2010, 02:24 PM
IBut seriously, how do relevant franchises up and relocate to Baltimore?

Two things...

I'm going to kick you in the baby maker.

Your invitation to The Art Modell Is Dead party is now revoked.

powerofX
01-08-2010, 03:42 PM
Two things...

I'm going to kick you in the baby maker.

Your invitation to The Art Modell Is Dead party is now revoked.

Art Model is still alive? I thought he died in the 90's....

That's right, he's dead in my heart. I'm glad that the NFL has instituted the "never let art in the HOF policy"

Masterofreality
01-08-2010, 04:27 PM
Art Model is still alive? I thought he died in the 90's....


Nah, not the whole body, just his scrotum.

powerofX
01-08-2010, 04:30 PM
Nah, not the whole body, just his scrotum.

Actually, the only thing that made the Giants vs. Ravens Super Bowl bearable was when Art hoisted the Lombardi Trophy and streamers and the like popped in the background...he ducked like he was in a foxhole in Vietnam. It was as if he actually believed a scorned Browns fan was blowing him up....priceless.

vee4xu
01-08-2010, 04:58 PM
Cribbs has 3 more years left on his current contract. Unless the Browns decide to trade him to the Redskins, Snyder can't do anything.

That's right Frank. As for the coach, Holmgren is keeping Mangenius because he has three years left on his contract and there is a potential owner lockout in 2011. So it makes no sense to go out and get a long term replacement for Mangenius because Lerner is already paying Crennel for a few more years. If Mangenius flounders next year, Holmgren takes over for the balance of the season and is a temporary fix. Then he hires a long tern replacement after the new labor agreement is done. That could be Gruden. Holmgren is keeping Mangenius out of convenience.

Frank D.
01-08-2010, 06:20 PM
That's right Frank. As for the coach, Holmgren is keeping Mangenius because he has three years left on his contract and there is a potential owner lockout in 2011. So it makes no sense to go out and get a long term replacement for Mangenius because Lerner is already paying Crennel for a few more years. If Mangenius flounders next year, Holmgren takes over for the balance of the season and is a temporary fix. Then he hires a long tern replacement after the new labor agreement is done. That could be Gruden. Holmgren is keeping Mangenius out of convenience.

I don't disagree with this, but I think Mangini has a legitimate chance to win Holmgren over. Football-wise, it doesn't seem like they see eye-to-eye on much, but if this somehow works, he's not going to get rid of Mangini just to get rid of him.