Reds Get Rolen

[drudy23]

I know, I know...the Reds are done.

Too little too late, if you ask me. I'm glad we got rid of EE, because he belongs in the minors.

I'm excited if we make this trade a month ago. Pretty pointless now.

[vee4xu]

I know, I know...the Reds are done.

Too little too late, if you ask me. I'm glad we got rid of EE, because he belongs in the minors.

I'm excited if we make this trade a month ago. Pretty pointless now.

Pointless is exactly right. Hey at least you still have players whose name you recognize.

[Jumpy]

At first, I couldn't understand why the Reds pulled this trade now. It didn't make sense because Rolen won't be with the team in two year's time, and it doesn't seem like the Reds are close enough that adding Rolen would put them over the top. However, the more I think about it, the more I believe that the trade was made for the fan's sake.

If they had gone the other way and started a fire sale it would have demoralized the fan base, ensuring that there will only be 3,000 butts in the seats for any game that isn't a stupid bobblehead give away. They make a play for a guy with a big name that is ancillary to the big picture, then they can come back to us at the end of the year and say that they at least tried. We needed to get rid of EE, and we didn't give up much by way of minor league talent, so the trade doesn't really help or hurt us. Its kind of a "doing for doing's sake" kind of deal.

[drudy23]

Will the addition of Rolen actually make you go to a game?

[XU 87]

I think this was a deal made for next year, not this year. If he stays healthy, Rolen solidifies third base. Other than shortstop, the Reds have a solid infield for next year.

I still think the starting pitching can be good, particularly if Dusty finally realizes that he can't overpitch Harang. The bullpen should be decent. Outfield will still be an issue, although they've got two guys in AAA who are pretty good.

[suspectx]

I can't say I am a fan of this trade at all. I know you have to give up something to get something, but I think the Reds gave up way too much. I think getting rid of Encarnacion was necessary and Roenicke seems like a talent, but I can handle giving him up as well. Throwing in your top pitcing prospect who is rocketing through the minor leagues and has a ridiculous ground ball to fly ball ratio makes absolutely no sense to me.

Why did they have to make this trade yesterday? Rolen apparently asked to be traded to St. Louis or Cincinnati to be closer to home, so doesn't that give you some leverage to not give up so much? This team is 12 games under .500, why not make the trade at the winter meetings when his price has significantly decreased and you can hold on to your top pitching prospect?

I think Rolen will help in the field, at the plate, and in the clubhouse, but he is 34 years old and on the tail end of his career and the Reds just gave up a 22 year old pitcher who absolutely tore up the minor leagues along with a 26 year old 3B, and a 27 year old reliever who has begun to show he can pitch effectively in the Majors.

I hope Rolen can help get this team rolling next year, but I think this is a move that could severly back fire. Giving up your top pitching prospect who is a ground ball pitcher when you play at GABP, just doesn't seem like a move a small market team with supposed talent coming through the system would make.

[AviatorX]

I can't say I am a fan of this trade at all. I know you have to give up something to get something, but I think the Reds gave up way too much. I think getting rid of Encarnacion was necessary and Roenicke seems like a talent, but I can handle giving him up as well. Throwing in your top pitcing prospect who is rocketing through the minor leagues and has a ridiculous ground ball to fly ball ratio makes absolutely no sense to me.

Why did they have to make this trade yesterday? Rolen apparently asked to be traded to St. Louis or Cincinnati to be closer to home, so doesn't that give you some leverage to not give up so much? This team is 12 games under .500, why not make the trade at the winter meetings when his price has significantly decreased and you can hold on to your top pitching prospect?

I think Rolen will help in the field, at the plate, and in the clubhouse, but he is 34 years old and on the tail end of his career and the Reds just gave up a 22 year old pitcher who absolutely tore up the minor leagues along with a 26 year old 3B, and a 27 year old reliever who has begun to show he can pitch effectively in the Majors.

I hope Rolen can help get this team rolling next year, but I think this is a move that could severly back fire. Giving up your top pitching prospect who is a ground ball pitcher when you play at GABP, just doesn't seem like a move a small market team with supposed talent coming through the system would make.

That's all well and good but how often do the Reds' "top pitching prospects" actually work out? The lineup has a chance to actually be pretty good next year, and if Volquez somehow recovers, the pitching could be good as well with an addition or two in the Winter. Call me crazy, but I think it just may all come together next season.

[suspectx]

That's all well and good but how often do the Reds' "top pitching prospects" actually work out? The lineup has a chance to actually be pretty good next year, and if Volquez somehow recovers, the pitching could be good as well with an addition or two in the Winter. Call me crazy, but I think it just may all come together next season.
You really think Rolen is the bat to make the difference? Isn't the new plan of the Reds to scout and develop talent? If this team has no faith in development of their own talent, than get ready for another 9 years of losing. The only way the Reds ever compete is by developing their own talent.

How does adding a guy hitting .320 with 8 homers and 43 RBI's turn this awful lineup into a pretty good lineup?

This team is not Scott Rolen away from competing. Why turn your top pitching prospect for a guy that is not the final piece to put you over the top and is 34 years old?

This team has no SS for next year, Alot of questions marks in the OF, especially as long as Taveras is playing. It appears Volquez could be heading for Tommy John. Why bail on the patience plan now when you aren't really any closer to competing.

[Juice]

This was one of the worst trades ever. The Reds got ripped off. Stewart is a legitimate prospect who would have been in the Reds rotation in two years. He was 4-1 this season with a 1.67 ERA in 23 games, including 14 starts at Class-A Sarasota, Double-A Carolina and Louisville. At worst he would be an awesome reliever (because he has been moved to the bullpen to save his arm). He also is a ground ball pitcher, which is what the Reds need in the band box known as GABP. Roenicke throws gas and I thought he would become a good piece in the bullpen next year. I could care less about Eddie, I am more concerned about the pitching we gave up. Plus the Reds took on 11 million frickin dollars for a guy on the downside of his career. Needless to say, I am pissed.

[XU 87]

Let's not forget- to get good players you have to give up good players.

But I just read that Volquez may have to get Tommy John surgery. If so, he's out for most of next year. If that happens, I take back any thoughts I have about this team competing next year.

But the Bengals are starting training camp and Mike Brown says that the team will be "competitive" this year. So let's not despair.

Is there any other city in the country that has worse professional teams than Cincinnati?

[dc_x]

It makes me uneasy that Jocketty knows Rolen from his days with the Cards. I think GMs can develop too much loyalty to a player and fail to realize when the player is on the decline. I hope Jocketty calculated that he acquired a 35 year old Scott Rolen...not the same Scott Rolen he knew from STL.

[XU 87]

It makes me uneasy that Jocketty knows Rolen from his days with the Cards. I think GMs can develop too much loyalty to a player and fail to realize when the player is on the decline.

Do you mean like Jim Bowden signing every current and former Reds player he could find? That system worked pretty well with the Nationals.

[suspectx]

Let's not forget- to get good players you have to give up good players.

But I just read that Volquez may have to get Tommy John surgery. If so, he's out for most of next year. If that happens, I take back any thoughts I have about this team competing next year.

But the Bengals are starting training camp and Mike Brown says that the team will be "competitive" this year. So let's not despair.

Is there any other city in the country that has worse professional teams than Cincinnati?
You absolutely have to give up something to get something, but why are other teams turning their top prospects into Cliff Lee, Jake Peavy, Victor Martinez, Matt Holliday etc. and we are getting a guy who is 34 and probably at most has 4 good years left.

My problem with the trade is why now? Why not do it after the season when his price goes down and you can keep Zach Stewart and give them a lower rated prospect like Maloney or someone at that level. Making the trade yesterday only means you pay more for a guy to add to a team that is 12 games under .500.

The offensive problem with this team is not the middle of the lineup either. Its the fact that the 1 and 2 hitters have OBP's lower than .300. You can't score when guys aren't on base. As long as Taveras is hitting leadoff, this team will struggle to score runs. Luckily, Dusty is trying out Gonzalez and his robust .250 OBP in the 2 hole.

Moving on, where does Rolen hit in the lineup? I would think you put him at 4, but then do you move Phillips to 5 or up to 2. His approach at the plate does not translate to the 2 hole, but then again neither does Alex Gonzalez. My guess is Phillips moves to 2 and Rolen hits 4th, though it would make more sense to put Hanigan at 2 and drop Phillips to 5.

[XU 87]

[QUOTE=suspectx;137080]
The offensive problem with this team is not the middle of the lineup either. Its the fact that the 1 and 2 hitters have OBP's lower than .300. You can't score when guys aren't on base. As long as Taveras is hitting leadoff, this team will struggle to score runs. Luckily, Dusty is trying out Gonzalez and his robust .250 OBP in the 2 hole.

QUOTE]

True, although this team is really lacking at the 5 and 6 spot.

It is beyond me why Dusty was batting Hanigan 8th and Taveras at leadoff. Dusty doesn't seem to understand the concept of OBP.

I think they players play hard for him. But he isn't a very good with strategy or handling pitchers. And I remember our Cubs fans saying the same thing about him.

[suspectx]

[QUOTE=suspectx;137080]
The offensive problem with this team is not the middle of the lineup either. Its the fact that the 1 and 2 hitters have OBP's lower than .300. You can't score when guys aren't on base. As long as Taveras is hitting leadoff, this team will struggle to score runs. Luckily, Dusty is trying out Gonzalez and his robust .250 OBP in the 2 hole.

QUOTE]

True, although this team is really lacking at the 5 and 6 spot.

It is beyond me why Dusty was batting Hanigan 8th and Taveras at leadoff. Dusty doesn't seem to understand the concept of OBP.

I think they players play hard for him. But he isn't a very good with strategy or handling pitchers. And I remember our Cubs fans saying the same thing about him.
Let's be honest, this team is lacking at 1,2,5,6, and 7. So now with Rolen this team will either be lacking at 1,2,6, & 7 or 1,5,6, & 7.

I thought Dusty had them playing hard, but lately it looks like the effort isn't there. That is not a good sign for Dusty. I do love his reason for hitting Hanigan 8. He said in so many words that Hanigan is getting hits but he wasn't driving in many runs. That is some pretty strong logic.

[XU 87]

Please don't tell your father that we're both criticizing Dusty Baker.

[XU 87]

[QUOTE=Suspectx;137081]
Let's be honest, this team is lacking at 1,2,5,6, and 7.

I should have said, besides the 1 and 2 spots, this team is also lacking at the 5 and 6 spots.

[xunorm]

Being from St. Louis, I am not a big fan of this trade. Rolen wants to play, and he plays to a fault. When the Cardinals won the World Series in 2006, he was hurt and everyone knew that he couldn't produce down the stretch. He may have good leadership, but it always seems to be him first. He will be able to contribute, and he adds to the new Reds mantra of defense, but I don't know what will happen beyond next year.

[Fireball]

I love Rolen. He's one of my favorite players in the game. I don't know if I like the trade, but no doubt Rolen is an improvement offensively and defensively over EE.

I don't like giving up Stewart, but I have little doubt he was included in the trade for two reasons:
1) The needed to include him he get the Cardinals to eat a check of Rolen's salary.
2) There's something about Stewart that we don't know that the Reds don't like. With the stats he put up in the minors, he looks like a stud. If the Reds thought they were giving up a future stud, they wouldn't have made the deal. Keep in mind that Stewart was pitching in relief in AAA. There's a reason for that, and that's probably related to why they give up up in this deal.

That makes our lineup for next year: Taveras, Bruce, Votto, Phillips, Rolen, Dickerson, Hanigan, unknown SS. If you can get another bat to play LF and shift Dickerson to center, that's not a bad lineup at all.

[XU 87]

That makes our lineup for next year: Taveras, Bruce, Votto, Phillips, Rolen, Dickerson, Hanigan, unknown SS. If you can get another bat to play LF and shift Dickerson to center, that's not a bad lineup at all.

Can "unknown shortstop" hit?

[Fireball]

Can "unknown shortstop" hit?

Hopefully. :)

I'd guess probably not though. Probably Janish or someone else would fill that spot until Frazier, Cozart, or Valaika is ready. Valaika's been pretty miserable in AAA thisy year, tho.

[Juice]

I love Rolen. He's one of my favorite players in the game. I don't know if I like the trade, but no doubt Rolen is an improvement offensively and defensively over EE.

I don't like giving up Stewart, but I have little doubt he was included in the trade for two reasons:
1) The needed to include him he get the Cardinals to eat a check of Rolen's salary.
2) There's something about Stewart that we don't know that the Reds don't like. With the stats he put up in the minors, he looks like a stud. If the Reds thought they were giving up a future stud, they wouldn't have made the deal. Keep in mind that Stewart was pitching in relief in AAA. There's a reason for that, and that's probably related to why they give up up in this deal.

That makes our lineup for next year: Taveras, Bruce, Votto, Phillips, Rolen, Dickerson, Hanigan, unknown SS. If you can get another bat to play LF and shift Dickerson to center, that's not a bad lineup at all.

He pitched most of the year as a starter in AA. They moved him to reliever when they moved him up to AAA because they wanted to limit his innings. He pitched as a starter and reliever at Texas Tech and he still doesn't have the arm strength to pitch a full season as a starter yet.

The reason he is so valuable is because his groundball rate is pretty high which is vital in GABP.

[gladdenguy]

Is there any other city in the country that has worse professional teams than Cincinnati?

87,
I think about this question all the time. The only city that I can think of that is on the same level is Kansas City. I'd say both Kansas City and Cincinnati have the worst professional teams.
There are some other cities that are not good right now but are better than Cincinnati: San Francisco and Cleveland off the top of my head. Both have had a Championship Series in baseball (and san fran had a world series birth wih that championship series...but it was back in 02) this decade and Cleveland does have the Cavs. That is why I give them the leg up.

[GoMuskies]

Chiefs are miles ahead of the Bengals.

[gladdenguy]

You could also say the Reds are miles ahead of the Royals.

[GoMuskies]

You could also say the Reds are miles ahead of the Royals.

The Reds aren't miles ahead of anyone.

[Fireball]

He pitched most of the year as a starter in AA. They moved him to reliever when they moved him up to AAA because they wanted to limit his innings. He pitched as a starter and reliever at Texas Tech and he still doesn't have the arm strength to pitch a full season as a starter yet.

The reason he is so valuable is because his groundball rate is pretty high which is vital in GABP.

...and that's the story the club told. I'm not saying it's false, but IMHO, when you see a guy with a GREAT year and touted as a major pitching prospect traded away, you can pretty well bet there's something else going on.

What? I don't know. I'm not an insider. If they thought his stats were representative of being a stud pitching prospect, they wouldn't have traded him. I'm not saying they're right, but no doubt that's what they think.

[AviatorX]

It's the Reds, the Cincinnati Reds.

I have no doubt that Stewart will end up being a solid starter with all star potential for the Jays in the future, but at the same time, if he stayed in this organization, he would have had Tommy John before he ever made it to the show.

[Fireball]

Actually, I can't think of the last time that the Reds traded away a pitching prospect that amounted to anything. BJ Ryan's probably the best one, and he was a good closer for a few years, but that's not a big deal.

All of the Buddy Carlysles and Rob Bells and Curt Lyonses that the Reds have traded away haven't really amounted to crap.

[GuyFawkes38]

In the end, the Reds really needed a tough, experienced, gritty player. Gritty teams win divisions and championships.

[gladdenguy]

Chiefs are miles ahead of the Bengals.

Well, now I know you are just trying to be argumentative because in the last 5 years the Bengals have won 38 games. In the last 5 years the Chiefs have won 32 games.

And, I will bet you anything that the Bengals will win more games than the Chiefs this year....so for the last 6 years they will have more wins than the Chiefs....if they are miles behind the Chiefs, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Mike Brown has sucked since 1990 and the Bengals have been one of the worst franchises in all of sports, however, they have had a better franchise history than the piss poor Kansas City Chiefs who haven't been to a superbowl since Super Bowl I when they got crushed against the Packers 35-10.

The Bengals have been to 2 superbowls since that time and both were close, with Super Bowl XXIII being one of the top 5 superbowls in history. So, my friend, your comment of the chiefs being miles ahead of the Bengals is either false or just make believe.

And, I would love to take that bragging rights bet this year. Bring it.

[chico]

Well, now I know you are just trying to be argumentative because in the last 5 years the Bengals have won 38 games. In the last 5 years the Chiefs have won 32 games.

And, I will bet you anything that the Bengals will win more games than the Chiefs this year....so for the last 6 years they will have more wins than the Chiefs....if they are miles behind the Chiefs, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Mike Brown has sucked since 1990 and the Bengals have been one of the worst franchises in all of sports, however, they have had a better franchise history than the piss poor Kansas City Chiefs who haven't been to a superbowl since Super Bowl I when they got crushed against the Packers 35-10.

The Bengals have been to 2 superbowls since that time and both were close, with Super Bowl XXIII being one of the top 5 superbowls in history. So, my friend, your comment of the chiefs being miles ahead of the Bengals is either false or just make believe.

And, I would love to take that bragging rights bet this year. Bring it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hank Stram's Chiefs matriculated the ball down the field to a victory against the Vikings in Super Bowl IV. You may want to stick with the current editions of both teams.

[gladdenguy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hank Stram's Chiefs matriculated the ball down the field to a victory against the Vikings in Super Bowl IV. You may want to stick with the current editions of both teams.

You are correct chico (thank you for that), yes, 39 years ago they did win a super bowl.
I guess the Chiefs are a better franchise now.
However, miles ahead of the Bengals is foolish.

[bourbonman]

...If he stays healthy, Rolen solidifies third base...
I loved him when he was with my Cardinals, except at the end when he was injured quite a bit. Good solid citizen and player and should help mature a ball club, if that's what the Reds need. From my position of not being a Reds fan and a fan of a divisional rival, it looks like the Reds need a lot. Enjoy Rolen, I wish we had him back. Saw Mark DeRosa Friday night hit a home run to tie a game that the Cards won, yet you can't win long term with a 3B who hits .259.

[Juice]

1. Yonder Alonso – 1B

Positives – Alonso has some of the best plate discipline in the minor leagues with above average power that projects to be a well above average bat.

Negatives – Currently out with a broken hamate bone that is known to sap a players power for a period of time of around a month. Limited to first base defensively.

2. Zach Stewart – RHP

Positives – Two plus pitches with a fastball in the 91-96 MPH range that induces plenty of ground balls and a slider. Outstanding numbers as well as closeness to the majors.

Negatives – Due to his being a reliever for a time in college its going to take a little longer to build up his innings to a full time starters work load.

3. Todd Frazier – LF

Positives – Very solid bat with strong plate discipline. Projects to hit for a high average and has some pop in his bat. Should be an above average MLB hitter.

Negatives – Limited defensively if he continues to stay in left field, as left fielders hit pretty well in the majors as a whole.

4. Drew Stubbs – CF

Positives – Plus plus defense in center field with excellent speed on the base paths. Also has good awareness of the strikezone that leads to a lot of walks.

Negatives – Despite raw power it has not translated its way to games yet. Due to the strikeout rate, he will not hit for a higher average.

5. Chris Heisey – OF

Positives – Strong plate discipline with some decent pop at the plate. Good base runner, good speed and a strong arm. Seems to have really gained power this season. Good at everything.

Negatives – The only negative is that he doesn’t have a single ‘outstanding’ tool, just that he is good at everything. Tough to say thats a negative.

6. Zack Cozart – SS

Positives – Above average defensively at the second most defensive position on the field. Has shown outstanding plate discipline this year and has shown decent pop, especially for a shortstop.

Negatives – Has had a slight error problem this season, although Carolina reportedly has a rough field.

7. Yorman Rodriguez – CF

Positives – Incredibly high upside. Tons of athleticism and has shown solid hitting abilities for a 16 year old in the GCL to this point. Perhaps the highest cieling of anyone in the system.

Negatives - Incredibly young. Has a very long way to go to reach the major leagues and his incredible potential. Very raw still at this point as a baseball player.

8. Travis Wood – LHP

Positives - Arguably the best pitcher in the minor leagues this year stat wise. Plus change up, decent fastball and has made big strides with his control this season. Just called up to AAA, making him close to the majors.

Negatives – Small in stature at 5′ 11″ and 165 pounds. Fastball tops out around 90 MPH and works in the upper 80’s for the most part.

9. Neftali Soto- 3B

Positives - High contact rate hitter with above average raw power. Has the tools to stay at 3B.

Negatives – Hasn’t hit this year in the FSL all that much. While he has the tools to stay at 3B, he needs to continue working there. Could use his walk and strikeout a little closer to each other.

10. Devin Mesoraco – C

Positives – Has shown solid peripherals this season at the plate. Also has made giant steps forward defensively as well.

Negatives - Despite solid peripherals the stats haven’t worked out as well as you would think. Still has a ways to go before being MLB ready.

Doug Gray, who runs the site these rankings came from, is probably the best source of information on the Reds' farm system. He knows what he is talking about.

http://redsminorleagues.com/2009/07/23/midseason-top-10-reds-prospects/

[bobbiemcgee]

Might as well bring them all up. Rolen got plunked today and the Reds have lost 11 0f last 12. Gonzalez nonchalanted a throw from the outfield that cost them the game. I'll always be a huge fan but like my Rockies out here in Denver with the Hamilton OH Mgr. Wish he would hire Rich Donnelly for the third base coach (X alum '68).

[Fred Garvin]

Actually, I can't think of the last time that the Reds traded away a pitching prospect that amounted to anything. BJ Ryan's probably the best one, and he was a good closer for a few years, but that's not a big deal.

All of the Buddy Carlysles and Rob Bells and Curt Lyonses that the Reds have traded away haven't really amounted to crap.

CJ Nitkowski, Justin Germano, Phil Dumatrait. And what about Darryl Thompson? I remember all the Krivsky defenders feeling vindicated when he had one stellar start.

The closest to a quality arm was Tomko. And he sure didn't turn into the Curt Schilling.

I tend to agree with Brantley that Reds pitchers need to start throwing inside. And if Dick Pole can't turn around Harang then he needs to take a hike.

[Fred Garvin]

I'd like to see the Reds experiment a little and move people around. If there is a dearth of shortstops available put Phillips at short and pick up a second baseman in the offseason with a high OBP. There is no point in playing Gonzalez. Hell, I'd rather see Janish.

Dickerson needs to play center. Welsh was on SOAS last night. He said benching Taveras would make the scout who recommended him look bad. Well boo hoo.
I don't think Walt wants to tell The Big Man he has a 4 mill bench player.

Two things they need to do:
1. jettison Cordero. Use that money for Nady or someone else to play LF.
2. Assuming Hannigan holds his own you buyout Hernandez for a mill. No way you give him 8.5 next year.

[AdamtheFlyer]

I'd like to see the Reds experiment a little and move people around. If there is a dearth of shortstops available put Phillips at short and pick up a second baseman in the offseason with a high OBP.

That may be closer than ever to happening. They've been moving Todd Frazier around in the minors, trying for find a position for him. He can't play short or third at the ML level, so they stuck him in left for a while but the emergence of Chris Heisey kind of blocks him there. Recently they've put him at second.

That makes sense. Frazier has always been a guy that projects to hit pretty well in the bigs, but is without a position. You put him at second and surround him with good fielders in Phillips at short and Votto at first, and it might work. Worth a shot.

Taveras just blows, and now they're stuck. At some point they just have to realize their mistake, eat the money, and cut him loose. You have to pay him no matter what, that train left the station long ago, why hurt the team even more by playing him over Dickerson? You tried. You failed. Move on. We'll start a fund to pay his salary. I'm good for $100.

Not to mention Drew Stubbs, who is ready and deserving a shot to play in the bigs at this point. He was a #1 pick and he supposedly plays GG caliber defense in center. On a team that's completely out of it, he really should be up and playing on September 1st.

[Juice]

Not to mention Drew Stubbs, who is ready and deserving a shot to play in the bigs at this point. He was a #1 pick and he supposedly plays GG caliber defense in center. On a team that's completely out of it, he really should be up and playing on September 1st.

Doug Gray stated that when Stubbs is brought up he will one of the best defensive centerfielders when he steps on the field. He will steal just as many bases as Taveras and will most likely hit at a higher clip than Taveras (because I don't see how anyone could be worse). I don't see why he isn't up yet especially with the limited number of outfielders on the roster. I am so glad that Walt decided to give Willy a 2 year contract.

[ThePowerOfX]

Here comes my rant as a Reds fan....

I hate the Rolen trade, I dont mind acquiring Rolen but we just flat out gave up too much. I liked Edwin but it was time for him to move on, so Im okay with that part, but Roenicke is a future closer, or at minimum a good setup guy IMO, and Stewart is a stud, possibly ace and everything. We gave up way too much for an aging, expensive, injury prone 3B.

Due to this trade, we have pretty much used up our spending money for the offseason and we still have a gaping hole at SS and a hole in the rotation now that Volquez is out for a year. This does not leave us in a good position to compete for next season.

And the worst part of the Rolen trade is Jocketty already said he hopes Rolen is around even longer than next season. Im willing to bet that he is signed to a 2 or 3 year extension that comes back to haunt the Reds for awhile....just wait and see...

[XU 87]

Here's today's trivia question: who was the last Reds starting pitcher who was developed through the Reds farm system that had a fairly long and decent career?

[AdamtheFlyer]

Here's today's trivia question: who was the last Reds starting pitcher who was developed through the Reds farm system that had a fairly long and decent career?

Tom Browning?

[GoMuskies]

If this is going to become the Reds airing of grievances thread, how about Dusty Baker not pinch hitting for Willy T. with two outs in the bottom of the ninth with the tying runs in scoring position? Is the official position of the Reds to avoid winning at all costs to improve draft positioning?!?

[MuskieCinci]

If this is going to become the Reds airing of grievances thread, how about Dusty Baker not pinch hitting for Willy T. with two outs in the bottom of the ninth with the tying runs in scoring position? Is the official position of the Reds to avoid winning at all costs to improve draft positioning?!?

Apparently Bryce Harper is a phenom on par with what LeBron James was in high school so maybe if we get him it will all be worth it. The Nationals are a worthy foe though when it comes to losing games.

[XU 87]

Tom Browning?

Correct.

The Reds haven't developed a consistent starting pitcher in over 20 years. That's pathetic.

The book is still out on Cueto. And Bailey is doing his best to be another in a long line of "promising" Reds starters who are out of the league after a few years.

And why did Kyle Loshe, Ryan Franklin and Todd Coffey all suck for the Reds but end up being very good pitchers when they go elsewhere? The AAA pitcher the Reds just traded for Rolen was probaly a great deal- the Reds would have just screwed him up. Maybe he'll have a chance to be a good pitcher now.

This organization really looks like they collectively don't know what to do to win.

[XU 87]

If this is going to become the Reds airing of grievances thread, how about Dusty Baker not pinch hitting for Willy T. with two outs in the bottom of the ninth with the tying runs in scoring position? Is the official position of the Reds to avoid winning at all costs to improve draft positioning?!?

Who do they have on the bench to pinch hit? He's hitting .238, which is one of the better hitters for this team.

But I do like how Dusty hits .300 hitter Hanigan 7th and .198 hitter Rosales 2nd.

[AviatorX]

Who do they have on the bench to pinch hit? He's hitting .238, which is one of the better hitters for this team.

But I do like how Dusty hits .300 hitter Hanigan 7th and .198 hitter Rosales 2nd.

Uhhh Scott Rolen.

[XU 87]

Uhhh Scott Rolen.

Uhhhh, Rolen was sitting out the game because he got hit in the head the game before. But you could have made your substantive comment without the Uhhhhhh part.

[AviatorX]

Uhhhh, Rolen was sitting out the game because he got hit in the head the game before. But you could have made your substantive comment without the Uhhhhhh part.

Don't overreact or anything, it's just a message board. But the ESPN announcers (although considering their employer, they may not have a clue) did say he was available to pinch hit about 12 times.

[Jumpy]

Why are we wasting all this time on the Reds? Its Bengals season, baby! Super Bowl!

[Juice]

But I do like how Dusty hits .300 hitter Hanigan 7th and .198 hitter Rosales 2nd.

But Adam is so much faster than Hanigan!

The man decides who bats at the top of the order strictly on how fact they can run. He is an utter moron and he never ceases to amaze me.

[XU 87]

But Adam is so much faster than Hanigan!

The man decides who bats at the top of the order strictly on how fact they can run. He is an utter moron and he never ceases to amaze me.

Can't argue with that.

[Fred Garvin]

I've shifted into that perverse mode where I root against my team. I wanna see how bad the futility gets. Only a matter of time til they get no-hit.

[Juice]

I've shifted into that perverse mode where I root against my team. I wanna see how bad the futility gets. Only a matter of time til they get no-hit.

I have done that with the Bengals for the last two years. I am really close with the Reds so they can get the #1 pick.

[AviatorX]

I have done that with the Bengals for the last two years. I am really close with the Reds so they can get the #1 pick.

And pass up instant impact talent for the more "signable" pick?

[XU 87]

Dusty is batting Hanigan 8th tonight, hitting behind Gonzalez. I guess Dusty thinks Gonzalez and his .200 average is a better hitter than Hanigan and his .300 average.

But at least we have Rosales and his .200 average batting second.

[GoMuskies]

Two days in a row of no Scott Rolen makes me nervous. We'll probably find out he has a skull fracture given the Reds' luck.

[GoMuskies]

Note to self: do not fall in love with Justin Lehr. It was only one game.

Note to self: do not fall in love with Justin Lehr. It was only one game.

Note to self: do not fall in love with Justin Lehr. It was only one game.

Note to self: do not fall in love with Justin Lehr. It was only one game.

Note to self: do not fall in love with Justin Lehr. It was only one game.

Note to self: do not fall in love with Justin Lehr. It was only one game.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Didn't they sell Lehr off to Korea last year? Probably not going to succeed long term.

[Cheesehead]

I have done that with the Bengals for the last two years. I am really close with the Reds so they can get the #1 pick.

...last 2 years? How about the past 15 years!

[Cheesehead]

Reds still have the worst record in baseball since the All-Star break.

[MuskieCinci]

Reds still have the worst record in baseball since the All-Star break.

I was at the game tonight wearing my 1990 Reds World Series shirt taunting all of the Chicago fans, don't bring me back to reality!

[gladdenguy]

I was at the game tonight wearing my 1990 Reds World Series shirt taunting all of the Chicago fans, don't bring me back to reality!

I love it. At least we still have that to fall back on....especially to Cubs fans.

[MuskieCinci]

I was not even 2 years old when it happened but I found the shirt at my cousin's house and stole it about 2 years ago. It has quickly become my favorite non Xavier shirt. I love to talk shit and act all big to cocky fans like the Cubs even though I have no room to talk. It makes them even more mad and cocky when they really don't have anything to brag about.

[Fred Garvin]

EZ Ramirez and Thompson each had a great start too, so I hear ya.

[Juice]

...last 2 years? How about the past 15 years!

Well I am a bit younger so I barely remember the early to mid 90's teams. Plus, I have always maintained some low level of interest but the last two years I completely have shut them out of my life. If I am doing nothing I will watch them.