Pete Rose

[Muskie]

ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4358260)

Bud contemplating reinstatement.

_____

I saw this on an Indiana St. message board. I would have thought the Cincinnatians would have been all over this.

[XUglow]

I'm not going to hold my breath.

[GoMuskies]

If Pete wasn't such a worthless human being he'd have a better shot at reinstatement.

[Muskie]

Bud probably thought Goodell was getting too much press this week so he went with something that would be "controversial".

[Jumpy]

I'm going against the grain on this one, and I'm sure I'll get flamed by gladden guy, drudy and the rest of the west siders, but I don't want to see him ever get in. The guy flat out bet on baseball, bet on the team that he managed, and did so knowing full well that such activity could get him banned from the game. For better or worse, betting on the game you're playing is the cardinal sin in the league's eyes and he still thumbed his nose at the system.

On top of that, he lied about it for years while raking in the cash charging every man woman and child for his autograph. Only when that cash cow dried up did he publish his "tell all" book, offering an empty apology in another pathetic cash grab.

If I thought that he was the least bit remorseful about what he did, I would be easier on him. He's not, so I'm not.

[Juice]

On top of that, he lied about it for years while raking in the cash charging every man woman and child for his autograph. Only when that cash cow dried up did he publish his "tell all" book, offering an empty apology in another pathetic cash grab.

I will disagree with you on one point. I encountered Pete a few times as a kid and each time he was more than happy to sign something for me. One time I only had a napkin and pen and he pulled out a card-type thing he had and signed it with a marker. I also have a few signed souvenir bats from him that I got signed down at his restaurant (which I almost positive is gone) in Florida. He may charge adults but I have about 5 autographs from the guy and he could not have been nicer unlike some other members of the Big Red Machine (cough, cough Johnny Bench).

[DC Muskie]

How do you reinstate someone into baseball?

Is someone going to give Pete Rose a job, like manager, or hitting coach? If that's the case, then no he shouldn't be reinstated.

If this guy is ever put into the Hall of Fame, the Hall would be a bigger joke then it already is.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I'm going against the grain on this one, and I'm sure I'll get flamed by gladden guy, drudy and the rest of the west siders, but I don't want to see him ever get in. The guy flat out bet on baseball, bet on the team that he managed, and did so knowing full well that such activity could get him banned from the game. For better or worse, betting on the game you're playing is the cardinal sin in the league's eyes and he still thumbed his nose at the system.

On top of that, he lied about it for years while raking in the cash charging every man woman and child for his autograph. Only when that cash cow dried up did he publish his "tell all" book, offering an empty apology in another pathetic cash grab.

If I thought that he was the least bit remorseful about what he did, I would be easier on him. He's not, so I'm not.

I pretty much came here to say this. I have no sympathy for Rose and cannot stand how this town makes him out to be this giant martyr. Rose knew the consequences of his actions but thought he was above the game and that mlb would never dare punish the great Pete Rose. I hope he never gets in.

[Jumpy]

I will disagree with you on one point. I encountered Pete a few times as a kid and each time he was more than happy to sign something for me. One time I only had a napkin and pen and he pulled out a card-type thing he had and signed it with a marker. I also have a few signed souvenir bats from him that I got signed down at his restaurant (which I almost positive is gone) in Florida. He may charge adults but I have about 5 autographs from the guy and he could not have been nicer unlike some other members of the Big Red Machine (cough, cough Johnny Bench).

I'm glad you had good encounters with the guy, but in the couple of times that I have run into him, they haven't been quite so cordial. I will agree with you that JB is one of the biggest d'bags on the planet.

[xubrew]

just to clarify,

mlb and the hall of fame are not one and the same. he doesn't need to be reinstated to mlb in order to get in to the hall of fame. at the same time, if he is reinstated he does not suddenly become eligible for the hall of fame. if i'm not mistaken he's been eligible for the hall of fame this whole time. the two are seperate, independent entities.

having said that, there is no denying that one is heavily influenced by the other. if he is reinstated, the hall would probably take him.

i guess my stance is that i don't think he should be reinstated to mlb, but have no issues with him going to the hall of fame. i just feel that the hall of fame awards abilities and accomplishments and he definitely had his share of those. the gambling didn't enhance his abilities or accomplishments, so i can stomach rose in the hall before some of the players coming out of the sterroids era. i think he should be banned from baseball, but not the hall.

i know that probably sounds wierd, because i feel former sterroids users should be looked at extra closely (or be cut out altogether) by the hall of fame on the grounds that their accomplishments and abilities were aided by illegal drugs, but i'd have no problems with them continuing to play baseball so long as they cleaned themselves up.

[nuts4xu]

If this guy is ever put into the Hall of Fame, the Hall would be a bigger joke then it already is.

I agree. It is a joke that he is not in there already. It was an even bigger joke MLB changed the rule that players on the banned list could not be voted into the HOF right after Pete signed his agreement with baseball.

I understand why the guy doesn't belong back in the game. I don't understand why he isn't in the HOF. To my knowledge, no one has alleged Pete bet while he was still playing. His transgressions happened when he was managing the Reds.

To me it is simple-- and this is coming from an East Side kid-- Pete is a great guy but he isn't the best human being. Repeal the rule and allow banned players to be elected into the HOF. Only Pete and Shoeless Joe are affected by this rule so it is kind of a goofy rule. Pete gets in the HOF and the debate is over. Bud will get this matter off his desk, and Pete gets his plaque where it belongs.

[XUglow]

Pete is out of regular voting for the Hall. He would be in the hands of the Veterans Committee, and there is not much support for him there. They might honor his career after he is dead, but I cannot see them ever honoring the man.

[Jumpy]

Even though his bust isn't in the Hall, there are many, many reminders/memorabilia from his accomplishments. The bat he used to hit 4,192, the ball, the cleats the jersey. It's all there and on a rotating display with everything else that they have. Evidence of his accomplishments are there and not going anywhere, so why does he need to be there?

[nuts4xu]

I agreed with that Glow until Hank Aaron came out in support of Pete this week. His opinion carries a lot of weight among his peers and the veterans committee.

Pete's chances were better with the writers, but I still think he would get voted in by the veterans if he was eligible. It might not be the first ballot, but I would bet you a beer he it is no later than the second.

[xubrew]

i feel that if the evidence is there, then he should be too. it just seems to me like if you're going to display someone's accomplishments at length (i've never been there, but based on your description it sounds like that's what's happened), then that's more of a reason to induct him.

[xubrew]

I agreed with that Glow until Hank Aaron came out in support of Pete this week. His opinion carries a lot of weight among his peers and the veterans committee.

Pete's chances were better with the writers, but I still think he would get voted in by the veterans if he was eligible. It might not be the first ballot, but I would bet you a beer he it is no later than the second.

i thought the veterans could vote for him. i could be mistaken, but i could have sworn that i heard and/or saw that to be the case.

i also don't understand how the MLB can ban him from the hall of fame. the two are not directly associated. there are people in the hall of fame that never even played in the major leagues.

[Jumpy]

i feel that if the evidence is there, then he should be too. it just seems to me like if you're going to display someone's accomplishments at length (i've never been there, but based on your description it sounds like that's what's happened), then that's more of a reason to induct him.


But in your earlier post, you said he should be allowed in because of his accomplishments. Well, his accomplishments are already being commemorated, so why does Pete Rose the person need to be honored by the Hall? Its not as if there are strict guidelines governing who makes the cut. Its purely subjective. There are many people who did not disgrace the game that deserve to be in, but are still out in the cold. Why don't we put our efforts into pulling for their inclusion instead?

[_LH]

Pete was no longer playing when he was banned from MLB. If he had already been inducted into the HOF but was still managing when he was betting, would the HOF have kicked him out?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4192628

[Kahns Krazy]

I find it interesting that Pete the gambler is being considered for reinstatement 20 years later, and people are fired up about it, but Vick the organized crime gambling ring leader has been reinstated within weeks of completing his federal sentence.

[XU05and07]

Put him in the Hall when he's dead...After all, he did agree to a life-time ban

[XUglow]

I find it interesting that Pete the gambler is being considered for reinstatement 20 years later, and people are fired up about it, but Vick the organized crime gambling ring leader has been reinstated within weeks of completing his federal sentence.

Do you think that would be the case if Vick had been betting on NFL games?

[Kahns Krazy]

Do you think that would be the case if Vick had been betting on NFL games?

I have no idea. Do you believe that he never has? If he hasn't, it's certainly not because he thinks it's wrong.

[XUglow]

I have no idea. Do you believe that he never has? If he hasn't, it's certainly not because he thinks it's wrong.

I believe Vick is scum, but for now, we don't know if Vick has bet on games in which he took part, and we do know that Rose did bet on games in which he was an active participant in the outcome.

[Kahns Krazy]

I don't think it matters if Pete is reinstated or if he's ever in the hall. Nobody that doesn't know about Pete now is going to find out about him because he makes it to the hall. His legend is what it is. I've said before that it's in Pete's best interest to remain the outcast. Once (if) he's inducted, his story is over.

I am a gambler. In my mind, betting on your team to win is a far lesser offense than cheating (steroids) to win. Maybe the rules aren't written that way, but that's my take on it. Running an illegal gambling operation is a greater offense in my mind - and the law - than placing a wager on your team to win.

I don't care if Pete's never allowed in the game or in the hall. It's rather silly on both sides now. I guess my take on it is that Pete is not the single worst thing to have happened to the game in my lifetime, yet he is serving the single biggest punishment.

[XUglow]

No one knows if Pete pitched guys too long or got a valuable player injured by trying to win an unwinable game. The big fear is that a gamer might get in too deep with the gamblers and then do things to "toss" a game or greatly reduce the odds of his team winning.

[xubrew]

But in your earlier post, you said he should be allowed in because of his accomplishments. Well, his accomplishments are already being commemorated, so why does Pete Rose the person need to be honored by the Hall? Its not as if there are strict guidelines governing who makes the cut. Its purely subjective. There are many people who did not disgrace the game that deserve to be in, but are still out in the cold. Why don't we put our efforts into pulling for their inclusion instead?

Jumpy, I think he should be in for the same reason his memoriabilia is there. pete rose "the person" doesn't really factor into it as much as pete rose "the player."

don't misunderstand me. i honestly don't feel all that sorry for him. i also stated that i don't think he should be let back into baseball. it's just my opinion that although he did disgrace the game (as you put it), he did not do anything to illegally or unfairly enhance his performance and accomplishments. therefore, they still carry the same amount of weight in my book, and that's the ultimate measure to me as far as the hall of fame is concerned. the reason i'm not lobbying for others that are "out in the cold" is because they weren't as good as pete rose was.

but at the same time, this doesn't rate that high on the list of things in the world of sports that i give a shit about. on a scale of one-to-ten, an ncaa football playoff (or lack thereof) checks in at about a nine. pete rose and the hall of fame checks in at about a three.

[Jumpy]

pete rose and the hall of fame checks in at about a three.

At least we agree on this.

[blobfan]

I find it interesting that Pete the gambler is being considered for reinstatement 20 years later, and people are fired up about it, but Vick the organized crime gambling ring leader has been reinstated within weeks of completing his federal sentence.

Probably because the NFL has lower standards for behavior than the WWE.


Put him in the Hall when he's dead...After all, he did agree to a life-time ban

Agreed. Put him in while he's alive and he'll just jack up his signing and speaking fees.

[chico]

I don't think Rose ever bet to lose a game. I remember how his teams always made a late dash in September and make up like 10 games in the standing in the last month. Now I know why - having money on the game gave him more incentive when most teams that time of year were just playing out the string.

As for the Hall, he should be in - there is no evidence that he bet while he was playing and that is what he would go into the hall as. I don't think he should ever be allowed to work in baseball again.

As far as the lifetime ban thing, apparently Rose had a chance under Uberroth to take a one year ban - they had the goods on him for a while. Pete denied betting on games - Uberroth said take the deal because the guy coming in after me will not be as lenient as I am. Rose was too proud to take the deal and ended up with the lifetime ban. I think Rose signed off on the ban because he still felt he'd be allowed back in after one year. Maybe if Giamatti hadn't had a heart attack and Fay Vincent not blamed the heart attack on Rose he would have been back.

IF there is one lesson to be learned form all this, it's not to name a street after someone who is still living (a lesson St. Louis did not learn with the McGwire I-70 thing).

[Jumpy]

I don't think Rose ever bet to lose a game. I remember how his teams always made a late dash in September and make up like 10 games in the standing in the last month. Now I know why - having money on the game gave him more incentive when most teams that time of year were just playing out the string.

He claims he never bet on them to lose, but when you are consistently betting on your guys to win, when you don't place the bet, you are effectively betting against them. I can all but guarantee you that his bookie was taking notice of his betting patterns.

[PMI]

Hey Bud Selig, instead of contemplating reinstating a total disgrace to the game and to Cincinnatians, why don't you get with the times and figure out some sort of a replay system that could have verified one of the dozen or so exciting plays that happened in baseball last night? That Pirates play was sick, and what happens? Ump makes a bad call and it can't get overturned, because apparently baseball is too historic and rigidly timeless to use modern-day technology. That kind of change is too impure for an already perfect game...

You can't tie, but you can certainly get cheated out of a win easier than any other sport.

Pete doesn't deserve to be reinstated based on the simple logic that nobody running baseball should be thinking about Pete Rose. He's done nothing to deserve their consideration.

[bobbiemcgee]

4,256 hits....others are proclaimed great when they get #3,000. Great BB player, personnally pretty much a jerk.

[vee4xu]

Pete is and always has been a despicable excuse for a human being. But, human elements should not be part of the HOF equation. Pete, despite my personal feelings about him, was one of the best hitters and well-rounded players the game has seen. Pure and simple, he was a winner. He worked hard and was one of the best, if not the best player of his era. The very traits that made him good on the field were the very same ones that made him despicable off of them. But, no one is looking for choir boys when it comes to voting the HOF. He gambled and did so as a manager of the Reds. But, that was after his playing days. Pete earned the HOF on the field as a player, not as a manager. I say put Pete in the Hall of Fame for his baseball accomplishments and the Hall of Shame for his personal behavior and be done with it.

[chico]

He claims he never bet on them to lose, but when you are consistently betting on your guys to win, when you don't place the bet, you are effectively betting against them. I can all but guarantee you that his bookie was taking notice of his betting patterns.

I don't think Rose ever didn't bet on a game - I think he had money on every game once he started betting. I don't think Rose would have gone a game without betting on it.

By the way, I think my former point about the team playing so well in September lends credence to my theory. Here are the Reds' record from Sept. 1 on during Rose's term (I didn't include 1989 because that's when everything hit).

1985 - 21-12
1986 - 20-12
1987 - 20-10
1988 - 19-10

[Juice]

Pete was at the game tonight. The Reds moment in history was 4192. The crowd gave him a standing ovation and they showed him on the screen. It was pretty funny.

[gladdenguy]

If Pete wasn't such a worthless human being he'd have a better shot at reinstatement.


I'm going against the grain on this one, and I'm sure I'll get flamed by gladden guy, drudy and the rest of the west siders, but I don't want to see him ever get in. The guy flat out bet on baseball, bet on the team that he managed, and did so knowing full well that such activity could get him banned from the game. For better or worse, betting on the game you're playing is the cardinal sin in the league's eyes and he still thumbed his nose at the system.

On top of that, he lied about it for years while raking in the cash charging every man woman and child for his autograph. Only when that cash cow dried up did he publish his "tell all" book, offering an empty apology in another pathetic cash grab.

If I thought that he was the least bit remorseful about what he did, I would be easier on him. He's not, so I'm not.

Sometimes what you think is not what you get.
I can't stand Pete Rose. I totally agree with GOMuskies that he is a disgrace of a human being. Everybody did steroids, not everybody bet on baseball. That makes me sick.
I don't think the veterans committee will let him in anyway.
I do like the west side because I have to, but I hate one Peter Rose.

[gladdenguy]

I don't think Rose ever bet to lose a game. I remember how his teams always made a late dash in September and make up like 10 games in the standing in the last month. Now I know why - having money on the game gave him more incentive when most teams that time of year were just playing out the string.

As for the Hall, he should be in - there is no evidence that he bet while he was playing and that is what he would go into the hall as. I don't think he should ever be allowed to work in baseball again.

I dont think anyone can believe that Rose did not bet on his team to lose.

I also believe that the reason Rose wants to get back in the game is to manage/coach on some level. Baseball does not need that.

[gladdenguy]

Pete was at the game tonight. The Reds moment in history was 4192. The crowd gave him a standing ovation and they showed him on the screen. It was pretty funny.

This town makes me sick sometimes.

[BENWAR]

Sometimes what you think is not what you get.
I can't stand Pete Rose. I totally agree with GOMuskies that he is a disgrace of a human being. Everybody did steroids, not everybody bet on baseball. That makes me sick.
I don't think the veterans committee will let him in anyway.
I do like the west side because I have to, but I hate one Peter Rose.

You don't have to like the west side.

Please leave.

[BENWAR]

This town makes me sick sometimes.

Once again, please leave.

[gladdenguy]

once again, please leave.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ha

[gladdenguy]

You don't have to like the west side.

Please leave.

However, there are some "question marks" on the westside who will get down on their knees for Pete Rose. Evidence above.

[BENWAR]

However, there are some "question marks" on the westside who will get down on their knees for Pete Rose. Evidence above.

This has nothing to do with Pete Rose. I'm just sick of hearing you whine. Evidence above.

[Snipe]

I don't think Pete ever threw a game.

I also think anyone that suspects that Pete Rose threw a game is silly. Pete bet on baseball. That was against the rules. It was not the Blacksox scandal. He didn't throw a series, and he never threw a game. Say it ain't so? Nope. Pete played to win. He managed to win. He bet to win. He shouldn't have bet, but Pete didn't throw games. He could have been a better person, father husband, taxpayer, whatfuckingever, but he didn't throw games. Pete crossed many ethical lines in his life, but there is absolutely no evidence that he crossed that one. And crossing that line would have betrayed everthing that he was about.

No way Rose throws a game. He was the ultimate competator.

[Jumpy]

I don't think Pete ever threw a game.

I also think anyone that suspects that Pete Rose threw a game is silly. Pete bet on baseball. That was against the rules. It was not the Blacksox scandal. He didn't throw a series, and he never threw a game. Say it ain't so? Nope. Pete played to win. He managed to win. He bet to win. He shouldn't have bet, but Pete didn't throw games. He could have been a better person, father husband, taxpayer, whatfuckingever, but he didn't throw games. Pete crossed many ethical lines in his life, but there is absolutely no evidence that he crossed that one. And crossing that line would have betrayed everthing that he was about.

No way Rose throws a game. He was the ultimate competator.


Pete's ego is way to big to be a patsy for someone, so I believe this as wholeheartedly as you do. In fact, it's pretty obvious that Pete's ego is the entire reason that he is where he is now.

[gladdenguy]

This has nothing to do with Pete Rose. I'm just sick of hearing you whine. Evidence above.

I'm so sorry I hit your soft Pete Rose spot big boy.

[nuts4xu]

In spite of his westsiderness, gladdenguy is a great American!!

I would never live over there, nor would the west side allow a Mt Washingtonian such as myself take residence anywhere in that part of town. But west siders are a special breed and they crack me up.

I would have a beer (or 12) and trade stories with gladdenguy any day, no matter how much he "whines". The guy is a character.

Lighten up Ben!

[Kahns Krazy]

I do believe they know each other.

[Xman95]

Here's my thought on this: let Pete Rose into the HOF as a player. Make no mention of his managerial career at all being that those were the years when his betting on the game happened. The man had a billion hits (granted 99.99% were slap singles) and should be in the Hall.

[UCGRAD4X]

Here's my thought on this: let Pete Rose into the HOF as a player. Make no mention of his managerial career at all being that those were the years when his betting on the game happened. The man had a billion hits (granted 99.99% were slap singles) and should be in the Hall.

I actually remember listening to a game in which Pete hit 3 home runs.

I think he was way up there in triples early in his career. Not sure about that though.

[UCGRAD4X]

As far as the Eastside/Westside thing goes - I know it is mostly in fun - some people take it a bit too seriously.

I was born & raised on the Eastside - where I live now [close to X] but I've lived on both sides. I think they both have their good qualities.

I recall Westsiders being much less judgemental and more accepting. They have deep roots and a strong committment to family, tradition, and loyalty. Qualities I very much appreciated.

Maybe they weren't as 'sophisticated'. Then again, maybe they just weren't afraid to admit it.

[Kahns Krazy]

I hate the word sophisticated. In general, you like what you grow up on. If you're fed sushi once a week as a kid, odds are much higher that you'll like sushi as an adult.

People outside of Cincinnati in general trash LaRosas, Skyline, goetta, etc. etc. etc. I like all of those things. I like Bud Light. I drink more Bud Light than any other beer. I enjoy other beers too, and if I'm going to have one of two beers, I would prefer they be Dogfish 90 minute IPA's vs. Bud Light. I don't think that means I'm unsophisticated when I drink Bud Light.

[xavierj]

If Pete played for the Yankees we would not even be discussing this? Also how is betting on your team to win any different then buying stock in the company you work for? Guy may be a dirt bag but he was a winner on the field and the best hitter the game has seen. His record will never be broken. Is there another sports record you can say that about? Those of you who witnessed him will tell your grand children about him in 30 years.

[Jumpy]

The subject of east side vs.west side comes up a lot here, and in this city in general, for that matter. I don't think that anyone takes it seriously, though. Hell, I'm the one that brought it up on this thread, but I was just making a joke about it. I look at it as a kind of brotherly ribbing.

Truth be told, I've always lived on the west side of I-75, which I guess is the line of demarcation for determining whether one is a dirty, sister-loving Elder fan or a Saab driving, micro brew drinking stick up the ass yuppie. So, I guess by definition I'm a west sider. I do't see myself as one, though. I went to St. X, so I could never tailgate an Elder game without puking every time I see the purple pole smoking panther mascot. I just like stirring the pot whenever I get the chance.

[gladdenguy]

I do love when Xeus makes fun of the westside. It is hysterical.

Thanks nuts, I love you always and forever.

[xubrew]

pete rose went from insisting he never bet on baseball, to admitting he bet on baseball, to admitting he bet on the reds, to admitting he bet on the reds every game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2798498

if i had to make a guess, it would be that he never bet against the reds, but i would not be surprised at all if we later learn that on occassion, he did.

i haven't read his book and i haven't read the dowd report. i'm probably not going to read either one. maybe he didn't bet on his team to lose, but it's my understanding that sports betting takes on more forms than just betting whether or not teams win or lose. you can bet on the number of strike outs a pitcher will get, for instance. (rose supporters, don't go crazy, because this is an example and not an accusation. i'm merely showing how betting on the game can be harmful even if you're not betting against your team). say a manager bets that the cincinnati pitcher would strike out ten batters in a game. it's late in the game, and the pitcher is struggling to hold a lead and should probably come out, but only has eight strike outs. the manager is now in a situation where they'll want to leave the pitcher in even if it probably isn't the best decision.

there are tons of examples like the one above, but you get the idea. he says that he only bet on his team to win, but he also said he never bet on baseball. i just don't see how even the most avid of rose supporters can claim that he never bet against the reds, or at the very least never put the reds in a bad situation by betting with such certainty. i honestly wouldn't be surprised at all if one day we learned he did bet against the reds or that it factored into his decision making in a manner that hurt the reds. i don't see how anyone else could be surprised by that either. i just don't think his word is worth all that much these days...at least when it comes to this specific matter.

i think he belongs in the hall of fame. i don't think he belongs back in baseball. it looks like bud selig is considering making the exacty opposite of that happen.

[wkrq59]

I have posted many times on this subject and my views should be well known. There is no Hall of Fame without the game's greatest hitter.
Rose bet on baseball when he was a manager, not as a player. Unlike Bonds et al in Steroidsville, Rose earned his hits legitimately.
For those of you who hate him for his failures as a person, bad husband, father, and a liar who made money off the lies or because he didn't sign a fxxxing autograph, get in line.
This latest bit is just another carrot dangled to Rose to grab headlines. It started as a story in a New York paper that "Selig was considering..."if Rose would publicly apologize and never take a job in baseball. Another Carrot. If you only admit you bet..we'll consider....Take a lifetime ban and you can apply for reinstatement in five years...this signed agreement contains no admission.. "an agreement Giamatti violated before the ink on the paper was dry.
There is no integrity in a game that accepts money from casinos yet decries in holy-holy fashion betting on the game. Or in a game whose heirarchy knew or at least should have known of the steroid issue but ignored it cause chicks dig the long ball.
It's very hypocritical to keep him out of the hall, but the world is filled with hypocrisy.:D

[Xman95]

If Pete played for the Yankees we would not even be discussing this?

Yes, we would. If you don't think so, check out the career statistics for Kirby Puckett and Don Mattingly. Kirby was inducted on the first ballot. Mattingly isn't even on the ballot anymore.


Also how is betting on your team to win any different then buying stock in the company you work for?

If Rose spent his entire bullpen trying to win the Monday game that he bet on, then didn't have the arms to win the close one on Tuesday, it could have a very negative affect on his team. Betting on games could make him forget about the big picture in order to simply win his bets. In addition, maybe he was less likely to give a young player the chance to develop because it could hurt his betting success.

Oh, and baseball has rules against betting on the game. If you work for a company that doesn't allow you to buy stock in it, don't buy it.


Guy may be a dirt bag but he was a winner on the field and the best hitter the game has seen.

Sorry, he's NOT EVEN CLOSE to the best hitter the game has ever seen. Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Ted Williams... There's a list of hitters better than Rose. He just had the most hits, in part because he played until he was 90.

He had a lifetime average of .303 and averaged 7 home runs per 162 games. That's not the best hitter ever.

(By the way, the previously mentioned Don Mattingly had a higher lifetime average and 62 more home runs - in 10 less seasons - than Rose.)


His record will never be broken. Is there another sports record you can say that about?

There's no guarantee it won't be broken. There was actually a stat/graphic on ESPN showing that Derek Jeter has a chance. Obviously he would have to stay healthy and productive, but he has a shot. He would also have to play until he could promote Grecian-Formula like Petey did.

Also, I'm guessing the odds of his record falling would be far greater than the odds or Cy Young's win total being surpassed. The DiMaggio 56-game hit streak might be on the list too.


Those of you who witnessed him will tell your grand children about him in 30 years.

Perhaps, but it will primarily be about his hustle as a player. And, for the most part, it will probably be Cincinnati people talking about him.


Sorry, didn't mean to go off on a rant (I'm not Dennis Miller). I just find it laughable when people talk about him like he's a baseball god. Perhaps he is in the Queen City, but he's just a great player in the others. Should he be in the Hall? Yes. Is he the best of those enshrined? No way.

[Kahns Krazy]

.... but it's my understanding that sports betting takes on more forms than just betting whether or not teams win or lose. you can bet on the number of strike outs a pitcher will get, for instance. (rose supporters, don't go crazy, because this is an example and not an accusation. i'm merely showing how betting on the game can be harmful even if you're not betting against your team). say a manager bets that the cincinnati pitcher would strike out ten batters in a game. it's late in the game, and the pitcher is struggling to hold a lead and should probably come out, but only has eight strike outs. the manager is now in a situation where they'll want to leave the pitcher in even if it probably isn't the best decision. ....

Prop bets like you reference are difficult to find in the age of online gambling. Pete was betting with a bookie. Those types of props don't exist with a bookie, especially in the 1980's.

[Xman95]

There is no Hall of Fame without the game's greatest hitter.

As I posted in the respons to XavierJ, Rose isn't the game's greatest hitter. I'll take Babe Ruth 100% of the time over Rose. Same for Ted Williams, Ty Cobb, etc. Was Rose great? Yes. Worthy of the HOF? Yes. But a .303 lifetime average with only 160 career home runs (over 24 seasons) doesn't get you the top spot on the list of great hitters.

[Xman95]

Prop bets like you reference are difficult to find in the age of online gambling. Pete was betting with a bookie. Those types of props don't exist with a bookie, especially in the 1980's.

So, not only was he betting on baseball, he was doing it through illegal means (ie - not somewhere like Vegas).

[Juice]

As I posted in the respons to XavierJ, Rose isn't the game's greatest hitter. I'll take Babe Ruth 100% of the time over Rose. Same for Ted Williams, Ty Cobb, etc. Was Rose great? Yes. Worthy of the HOF? Yes. But a .303 lifetime average with only 160 career home runs (over 24 seasons) doesn't get you the top spot on the list of great hitters.

I will take Ted Williams or Stan Musial.

[Xman95]

I will take Ted Williams or Stan Musial.

Either way, you're still getting a better hitter than the guy who picks Pete Rose. Plus, the guys we're taking never took pictures like this:

http://www.depressedfan.com/images/pete-rose-jockey.jpg

[tmac03]

Mack supports Rose's eligibility for the HOF:

http://gary-parrish.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/view/6271764

[Kahns Krazy]

So, not only was he betting on baseball, he was doing it through illegal means (ie - not somewhere like Vegas).

I seriously hope this wasn't breaking news to you.

All those guys taking steroids probably didn't have a genuine doctor's prescription for them either.

I heard Shoeless Joe Jackson once removed a matress tag too.

[bobbiemcgee]

http://www.exploratorium.edu/baseball/reactiontime.html