Iran

[Snipe]

Check out Michael Totten (http://www.michaeltotten.com/).

I don't think the government will fall, but we are getting to a hyper pitch on the ground in Iran. People think the election was stolen. People are fed up with their government.

Who are you rooting for? The nutjob or the people of Iran.

The United States is surprisingly popular among the people of Iran. It is the rulers and the mullahs of the governing class that we seem to have issue with.

Imagine if that government would fall. They are the #1 state sponsor of terrorism in the world. They prop up Syria. They prop up Hezbollah in Lebanon. All of that would start to fade as soon as they were out of the picture.

It would be a huge even for the world. Here is a youtube channel of video smuggled out of the country (http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ahriman46&view=videos)on the internets.

I think most of us would be rooting for the Iranian people. The possible exception would be the hard core haters of George W. Bush. If Iran would fall to a democratically friendly government to the United States it would dramatically change George W. Bush's legacy.

I have been predicting that Iran would fall for over five years. Over that period of time I have become more pessimistic about my prediction, but I still have hope.

Iran has inflation in or around 25%. Think of what a wealth destroyer that is. If you had 100,000 in cash, think about where it would be if your life's savings lost one quarter every year for a few years or five. Kind of makes our stock market troubles look rosey.

Iran has to import gas. Think about how amazing that is. That is what you get from nationalizing the oil companies and taking them away from people that know the business. Their oil production keeps going down, and they don't have the refineries to make enough gas for their people.

Unemployment runs rampant. This is a relatively highly educated populace. They graduate college and jobs aren't there. The lack of jobs and the inflation are killing the people. Think of this in context that this government spends more than any other proping up terroists regimes. Even if I was an Iranian and I did hate Americans and Jews, I would be plenty pissed if I was living in that economic climate.

Things have been happening quickly on the ground in Iran. It would be nice to wake up Monday and find that a revolution has toppled the government. I doubt it will happen, but now is the time if ever. They have primed the pump and the time is ripe for the taking. I throw my hat in with a free Iranian people. Free the people!

[Michigan Muskie]

Switching countries - how do you think the people of North Korea feel about their government threatening nuclear warfare against the world's superpowers? I'll tell you this: If I were a North Korean civilian, I'd be finding any which way possible to get the hell out of dodge. It's like this regime is begging to get annihilated. They can enrich all the uranium and weaponize all the plutonium they want, but we (and others) could pop that pimple of a country like a 13-year-old boy two days before homecoming at the flick of a finger. North Korea is like a little guy with a big pecker. They can screw all the girls around them, but will get their asses stomped by those girls' watchful big brothers.

[BBC 08]

Whenever I read about Iran or North Korea, I think about this song: link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3JDf5GaktU)

[kyxu]

I think most of us would be rooting for the Iranian people. The possible exception would be the hard core haters of George W. Bush.

Ridiculous.

[xsteve1]

I think Obama is really helping relations with the people of the Muslim world.

[dnyed]

Anyone other than Bush would help relations with the rest of the world, regardless of race, color, or creed.

[PM Thor]

Hmm, I wonder if the CIA had any influence or money invested in the latest Iranian election....

Yeah...no way. None. At. All.

I HATE dayton.

[Snipe]

Ridiculous.

I would think the majority of Bush haters would be rooting for the Iranian people taking their government back from the mullahs. I think some of the hard core variety would not like to see the "Bush Legacy" gain some grudging credibility. Maybe that is ridiculous. That point was just an aside though.


I think Obama is really helping relations with the people of the Muslim world.

I think he is too. His father was a Muslim and he grew up in a Muslim country. I think Obama is a someone that Muslims can identify with compared to every other US President.


Anyone other than Bush would help relations with the rest of the world, regardless of race, color, or creed.

I don't think that is correct.

[Snipe]

Hmm, I wonder if the CIA had any influence or money invested in the latest Iranian election....

Yeah...no way. None. At. All.

I HATE dayton.

Classic.

Blame America First. I think that is rule one in the playbook.

Iranians have been pissed off for quite some time. I have detailed already how while they are an oil rich country with a highly educated populace their economy is in shambles. I guess all those people that are rioting are CIA parrots. You really have outdone the standard.

I like it when liberals make parodies of themselves.

[PM Thor]

Classic.

Blame America First. I think that is rule one in the playbook.

Iranians have been pissed off for quite some time. I have detailed already how while they are an oil rich country with a highly educated populace their economy is in shambles. I guess all those people that are rioting are CIA parrots. You really have outdone the standard.

I like it when liberals make parodies of themselves.

Where did I blame America for anything? I said that I believe that the CIA had a hand in the election, that's not a stretch to say at all. The CIA (and the USA) would obviously back the reformist candidate that had the support of the younger populace.

We want either a reformist president in Iran, or, better yet, an unstable Iran.

Doesn't matter anyway, the president for that country is a figurehead, the Mullahs are the ones who really run the country. Do you, Snipe, really believe that anything would change because of the election of one president? I sure as Hell don't.

The people of Iran can't oust the Mullahs, the real power.

(forgive my disjointed thoughts, I just finished an 8 hour drive from upstate New York)

I HATE dayton.

[Snipe]

How do you think the people of North Korea feel about their government threatening nuclear warfare against the world's superpowers? I'll tell you this: If I were a North Korean civilian, I'd be finding any which way possible to get the hell out of dodge. It's like this regime is begging to get annihilated.

I think the North Korean people in general don't like their government at all. They have had mass starvation a few times if I remember correctly. We ship in food to save people. I often wonder if that aid helps keep the government in power. I tend to think it does. If we cut off the food aid people would die for sure, but if more people died maybe they would find the courage to bring about the end of the regime.

China props up the Norks as well. It isn't because they share a communist ideology. China has mostly shed communism in the name of the free market. China gives support because they don't want millions of refugees. Those Norks are poor as phuck. They are malnourished. As a result they are shorter and weigh less than south Koreans. I am sure their educationcal system combined with their malnutrition hasn't been good for their conditioning. They are just going to be a drag on the Chinese economy. I am not sure the South Koreans want them either.

Here is a picture of North and South Korea at night from space:

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/1207koreaelectricitygrikf0.jpg

I think that pretty much says it all.

When the Soviet Union collapsed, its economy wasn't even the size of South Korea's in terms of output. South Korea was then I think the 13th largest econmic power in the world. In GDP, South Korea is still 13th in the world.

GDP is measured in as nominal and as purchasing power parity (PPP).

South Korea GDP (PPP): $27,646
South Korea GDP (Nominal): $19,504

North Korea GDP (PPP): $1,700
North Korea GDP (Nominal): $1,116

Those stats are all from wiki.

Economic stats can confuse people. For those that aren't confused, most of them get bored with them and don't like them even when they understand them. That is why I listed the picture.

They say a picture says a thousand words. That picture actually says a lot more than that.

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/1207koreaelectricitygrikf0.jpg

[Snipe]

Where did I blame America for anything? I said that I believe that the CIA had a hand in the election, that's not a stretch to say at all. The CIA (and the USA) would obviously back the reformist candidate that had the support of the younger populace.

We want either a reformist president in Iran, or, better yet, an unstable Iran.

Doesn't matter anyway, the president for that country is a figurehead, the Mullahs are the ones who really run the country. Do you, Snipe, really believe that anything would change because of the election of one president? I sure as Hell don't.

The people of Iran can't oust the Mullahs, the real power.

(forgive my disjointed thoughts, I just finished an 8 hour drive from upstate New York)

I HATE dayton.



I don't have a lot of confidence in our CIA. Our CIA doesn't have a good track record. In the Clinton years, India set of a nuclear bomb and we knew nothing about it beforehand. While they were still scratching their heads, Pakistan responded and set off a nuclear bomb of their own. We had no clue that Pakistan had nuclear technology.

After the first Gulf War in the early 90's, we found out that Sadaam was much closer to having a nuke than the CIA ever thought. He was right on the doorstep. Couple years maybe. The CIA had no clue.

The CIA didn't know anything about the first attack on the World Trade Center during the Clinton Administration. The CIA didn't know anything about the second devesating attack on 9/11. 9/11 was a total failure of the CIA. But it just wasn't one, it was one in a long string of total failures.

The CIA director said that Weapons of Mass Distruction was a "Slam Dunk" going into or current war in Iraq. That CIA Director (George Tenet) was a holdover from the Clinton administration. He advised George Bush that finding WMD's would be a slam dunk. No neocon there. And he was the head of the CIA. We didn't find them. Bush was blamed, and many of the attacks came from the CIA itself.

The CIA hasn't aquitted itself very well. It is fair to say that we don't know of the attacks that they have stopped. But looking at it from my point of view, I don't think that they do much that helps us, and I certainly don't think they have the power to cause riots in Iran.

Those Iranian people are taking up the rioting on their own cause. That is what I believe. Again, think of what 25% inflation would do to a lifetime of savings. Inflation destroys wealth. Get ready, because with current government spending inflation will spike here too. If it ever gets to 25% it will be a disaster. It is a serious thing.


The people of Iran can't oust the Mullahs, the real power.

Why can't they? That is how the Mullahs got power in the first place. Some of the Iranians are begging Obama for help.

I hope the people of Iran say "YES WE CAN!"

[PM Thor]

All fair points Snipe.

Maybe I'm more pessimistic than you are, but I suspect the Revolutionary Guard is more than willing to kick the bejesus out of a bunch of revolutionaries in the name of the Mullahs.

I suspect a few days of some protests and rioting in the cities, maybe some international protest, but I highly, highly doubt that it will get anywhere at all. In fact, I bet there is some serious bloodshed coming. Tiannemen (sp) Square redux.

I really hope I'm wrong, but countries with governments like Iran don't give up power based on running street battles and the like.

I HATE dayton.

[Snipe]

Hmm, I wonder if the CIA had any influence or money invested in the latest Iranian election....

Yeah...no way. None. At. All.

I HATE dayton.

I looked at your quote again. You say you weren't "blaming America". To prove your point, nowhere did you ever "blame america" that I can find.

I wonder what you think about the uprising in Iran. Do you think it is good? I don't get that from what you said. I didn't get that even in your clarification.

I take this post as a skeptical one, where you are skeptical of the news because you think that these uprisings are a result of American foriegn policy. Hence my point. What should be good news becomes 'what have we done now'?

It is hard to read that and think any other way.

[Snipe]

All fair points Snipe.

Maybe I'm more pessimistic than you are, but I suspect the Revolutionary Guard is more than willing to kick the bejesus out of a bunch of revolutionaries in the name of the Mullahs.

I suspect a few days of some protests and rioting in the cities, maybe some international protest, but I highly, highly doubt that it will get anywhere at all. In fact, I bet there is some serious bloodshed coming. Tiannemen (sp) Square redux.

I really hope I'm wrong, but countries with governments like Iran don't give up power based on running street battles and the like.

I HATE dayton.

I have become more pessimistic myself but I still hold out hope for the Iranian people. They were our friends and allies for many years. Many of the Iranian diaspora live in the United States. The people like us a hell of a lot more than the rulling class of mullahs does. Our best bet is with those people, and they are uprising. They are fighting. They are protesting.

Iran did have a revolution in the 1970s. It isn't like it can't happen again. It already has happened. I would like to see another one right now. I am rooting for it. Will it happen? Probably not, but right now the situation is tense. If the government were to fall, it would change international policitics tomorrow.

[PM Thor]

I looked at your quote again. You say you weren't "blaming America". To prove your point, nowhere did you ever "blame america" that I can find.

I wonder what you think about the uprising in Iran. Do you think it is good? I don't get that from what you said. I didn't get that even in your clarification.

I take this post as a skeptical one, where you are skeptical of the news because you think that these uprisings are a result of American foriegn policy. Hence my point. What should be good news becomes 'what have we done now'?

It is hard to read that and think any other way.

I absolutely think it's great that the Iranian people are rising up, even if it is just in the cities, and even if I think it's doomed to fail. (It is widely known how the rural areas vote)

It's really not about the CIA and their intelligence gathering ability, it's more about the support to add instability to an enemy country. It wasn't meant to be a commentary about the validity or possible success of that uprising, it was my rather simple attempt to point out that an uprising in quite possibly our most staunch enemy is most assuredly backed by US interests. That's all.

I hope they succeed. I hope they overcome that oppressive regime. I hope the CIA offers as much support as we can do without giving proof of doing so too.

I HATE dayton.

[Snipe]

Shots fired as more than 100,000 Iranians defy march ban (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/15/iran-opposition-rally-banned-mousavi)

The people are coming out in massive numbers and the government has starting shooting them.


Shots have been fired at an opposition rally in Tehran where more than 100,000 Iranians were protesting against the re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

An Associated Press photographer saw one person killed when shots were fired from a compound for pro-government militiamen. Several other people appeared to have been seriously wounded in Tehran's Azadi Square. BBC's Persian service quoted an eyewitness saying that four protesters have been killed.

I read the first line and I didn't know if 100,000 were at that rally or if 100,000 were protesting citywide and shots were fired at one rally.

I don't know. Iran has asked the press to leave the country. The Revolution will not be televised (or so they think). They have censored the internet, but things are still getting out. We live in the information age and you simply can't keep a lid on stuff like the good old dictatorship days.

Graphic Pictures (nsfw) at this Iranian website (http://www.iranianuk.com/article.php?id=38529).

Just found this link (http://niacblog.wordpress.com/)to follow the revolution.

They had this photo with this caption:



http://niacblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/crowd.jpg?w=300&h=192
"The estimate we had of 100,000-200,000 seems like it is too small"

Sweet Jesus.

[picknroll]

Where did I blame America for anything? I said that I believe that the CIA had a hand in the election, that's not a stretch to say at all. The CIA (and the USA) would obviously back the reformist candidate that had the support of the younger populace.

We want either a reformist president in Iran, or, better yet, an unstable Iran.

Doesn't matter anyway, the president for that country is a figurehead, the Mullahs are the ones who really run the country. Do you, Snipe, really believe that anything would change because of the election of one president? I sure as Hell don't.

The people of Iran can't oust the Mullahs, the real power.

(forgive my disjointed thoughts, I just finished an 8 hour drive from upstate New York)

I HATE dayton.



For a minute there I thought you were talking about the US in a few years hence. Just sayin'.

[American X]

XavierHoops officially supports the Iranian people in their quest for free and fair elections that represents the will of the people. We respect their will and their voice and their courage in the face of the dangers they now face. Our hearts go out to the people of Iran.

American X personally hates those fascist motherfuckers and hopes they get collectively rounded up and tossed into the Persian Gulf. In the meantime, his heart aches for those desparately brave souls and will pray they somehow peaceably find their way to freedom.

[PM Thor]

XavierHoops officially supports the Iranian people in their quest for free and fair elections that represents the will of the people. We respect their will and their voice and their courage in the face of the dangers they now face. Our hearts go out to the people of Iran.

American X personally hates those fascist motherfuckers and hopes they get collectively rounded up and tossed into the Persian Gulf. In the meantime, his heart aches for those desparately brave souls and will pray they somehow peaceably find their way to freedom.

It's freaking incredible that the people are being so open with their anger. I would have expected to see everyone wearing masks to conceal their identities from the regime. I hope they win. It would be probably one of the most important events to ever occur in my lifetime if it happens.

I HATE dayton.

[GuyFawkes38]

Is American X's avatar green in support of the revolution?

For decades we've heard that the Iranian people hate their religious fascist government. I was skeptical of such claims. But not anymore.

[bobbiemcgee]

"Our hearts go out to the people of Iran."

I say F^ck Iran. Guess you don't remember the Hostage crisis or the fact they brought in all those IED's into Iraq to blow up out troops. There were 4 million people killed in the Iran/Iraq War....that was a good time for the rest of the world.

Last one out, bring the nukes, imho.

[GuyFawkes38]

"Our hearts go out to the people of Iran."

I say F^ck Iran. Guess you don't remember the Hostage crisis or the fact they brought in all those IED's into Iraq to blow up out troops. There were 4 million people killed in the Iran/Iraq War....that was a good time for the rest of the world.

Last one out, bring the nukes, imho.

Screw those protesters who are trying to take down the regime that orchestrated the hostage crisis.

Yeah, sure, screw them.

[PM Thor]

"Our hearts go out to the people of Iran."

I say F^ck Iran. Guess you don't remember the Hostage crisis or the fact they brought in all those IED's into Iraq to blow up out troops. There were 4 million people killed in the Iran/Iraq War....that was a good time for the rest of the world.

Last one out, bring the nukes, imho.

I guess you don't realize that 50% of Iranian people are under the age of 30. You blame the babies of the country for the sins of the fathers? Hey remember World War Two? Let's nuke Germany now, because they had terrible events happen in their fairly recent past. As for the IEDs, you blame the populace for what the government does? Really? It's a regime. They do what they want.

What a terrible, nonsensical response bobbie.

I HATE dayton.

[Snipe]

XavierHoops officially supports the Iranian people in their quest for free and fair elections that represents the will of the people. We respect their will and their voice and their courage in the face of the dangers they now face. Our hearts go out to the people of Iran.

American X personally hates those fascist motherfuckers and hopes they get collectively rounded up and tossed into the Persian Gulf. In the meantime, his heart aches for those desparately brave souls and will pray they somehow peaceably find their way to freedom.

Fascist no doubt.

Christopher Hitchens had this to say (Don't Call What Happened in Iran Last Week an Election) about people calling the elections in the first place. The Mullahs selected four people that were eligble to run.

A cynic would note that we usually have just two choices. That being Mr. Moore, and Mr Moor Aufdesyame (sounds German). But while we have pathetic choices for President, at least they are our pathetic choices for President. Now Mullah gave us idiots, we bravely choose to self select our own band of idiots.

I am willing to fight for the right to self select the idiots that we put into office. I don't recommend even voting in general, unless you want to be lied to and bitter. But I would fight someone if they took that away.

I am all for the Iranian people raising some hell. Good for them. I hope they take it all. Now is the time.



It's freaking incredible that the people are being so open with their anger. I would have expected to see everyone wearing masks to conceal their identities from the regime. I hope they win. It would be probably one of the most important events to ever occur in my lifetime if it happens.

I HATE dayton.


It would be a huge event. It would overshadow all recent events and events to come for some time. Iran is the biggest terrorist state in the world. If they fall, the real network falls.

Most people think that 9/11 happened without any state involvement. No evidence exists that can conclusively prove that a state was involved. Most terrorism is state sponsored. That is usually where the money and weapons come from. Those states don't like to have an official hand in the killing. They want deniablity. That is why they fund terrorists instead of attacking with an army. It has huge advantages.

Think about Bin Laden. Could someone prove he was behind 9/11 in a court of law? Then why be surprised we can't prove state sponsorship in 9/11? I am pretty sure Bin Laden was in on it. Do we have documented evidence that would stand up in court? Many of those tapes are fake and would be thown out.

My favorite conspiracy theory is that Bin Laden has been dead for years. I would bet my life on it. And yeah, he "just released" another tape this month. The media gobbles that up hook line and sinker.

Iran falling would be a huge event.



Is American X's avatar green in support of the revolution?

For decades we've heard that the Iranian people hate their religious fascist government. I was skeptical of such claims. But not anymore.

Tension has been building in Iran for quite awhile. This is the most serious public outcry in 30 years. They haven't seen shyt like this since the 1979 Revolution. The situation is quickly approaching a tipping point. If the protests keep gaining steam, the government could fall. 70% if the people of Iran are under 30. They were not alive or cannot remember the Revolution. And in a way those people like us, and the like us a hell of a lot more than the old and senile mullahs.


"Our hearts go out to the people of Iran."

I say F^ck Iran. Guess you don't remember the Hostage crisis or the fact they brought in all those IED's into Iraq to blow up out troops. There were 4 million people killed in the Iran/Iraq War....that was a good time for the rest of the world.

Last one out, bring the nukes, imho.

Don't confuse all Iranians with the extremists that took a hold of power and never let go.
I think their current President was one of the origninal hostage takers. They don't let anyone run for office. It isn't close to being a democracy. The lunatics are running the asylum.

[PM Thor]

Snipe, I think you and I would both rejoice in the downfall of the Iranian government. It would be monumentous.

Thing is, and I say this openly hoping the Iranian government falls, I wonder how destabilizing it would be for the region. I know, this is what we want, but we had an enemy to point to, as we did during the cold war. I'm just being worrisome as to how it would affect the "balance" in other countries in the region. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction kind of thing. Just thinking out loud.

Cats and dogs, living together....

I HATE dayton.

[bobbiemcgee]

Hope they have a civil war with no one left standing.

[PM Thor]

Hope they have a civil war with no one left standing.

Once again, you show how little you know about the region and the people.

Ignorance is bliss I guess.

I HATE dayton.

[Mark 3 Pointer]

Iran so far away.

[DC Muskie]

Iran this morning. Just two miles.

[Raoul Duke]

"Our hearts go out to the people of Iran."

I say F^ck Iran. Guess you don't remember the Hostage crisis or the fact they brought in all those IED's into Iraq to blow up out troops. There were 4 million people killed in the Iran/Iraq War....that was a good time for the rest of the world.

Last one out, bring the nukes, imho.

Jesus Christ, dude. Do you not realize that the citizens are protesting the same regime that instigated the hostage crisis? I mean, seriously. Do you know this? You are either being ignorant or must have some hell of an explanation for your position.

[Raoul Duke]

xavierhoops officially supports the iranian people in their quest for free and fair elections that represents the will of the people. We respect their will and their voice and their courage in the face of the dangers they now face. Our hearts go out to the people of iran.

American x personally hates those fascist motherfuckers and hopes they get collectively rounded up and tossed into the persian gulf. In the meantime, his heart aches for those desparately brave souls and will pray they somehow peaceably find their way to freedom.

power to the people.

[bobbiemcgee]

Jesus Christ, dude. Do you not realize that the citizens are protesting the same regime that instigated the hostage crisis? I mean, seriously. Do you know this? You are either being ignorant or must have some hell of an explanation for your position.

Iranians heavily support their anti-American mullahs who actually run the dump, so I don't get where you think they are any better.

[Raoul Duke]

Iranians heavily support their anti-American mullahs who actually run the dump, so I don't get where you think they are any better.

I am getting the following snippet from the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/18/world/middleeast/18iran.html?hp):


In a message on a Web site associated with him, Mr. Moussavi [the guy who won the popular election] called on his supporters to rally again on Thursday, and to go to their local mosques to mourn protesters killed in the demonstrations, officially numbering seven. His call directly challenged Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who had urged Mr. Moussavi to work through the country’s electoral system in contesting the election results.

Where are you getting your statement that "Iranians heavily support their anti-American mullahs.."? If 'Iranians' (you are generalizing) 'heavily' support their mullahs, then what exactly are they protesting?

[Snipe]

I have been following this story intently all week. They say that Americans can't understand Iranian culture and that we are naive when we try to interpret the political tea leaves. I can see that argument. I also believe nobody in Iran really knows at this point what is about to happen next.

They have protested every day after the elections except yesterday. Yesterday was a day of prayer led by the "Supreme Leader". He told them the elections are valid and he banned all the protests. He threatened people that protested. A protest is schedule today.

I think today is D-Day in Iran. Will people come out and defy the supreme leader? I think they will. What happens then I don't know. Will the government wail on them? Will the people in the Army be able to fire on their own countrymen, or will they turn their guns?

I think today is the biggest day in the Iranian Revolution, if it is to be a Revolution. The government is in a precarious position. Anytime you slaughter your own people you lose legitimacy on a fundamental level and risk even more uprising. They have been threatened not to protest, but I think they will still go through. If the government doesn't follow through on the threats they face the problem of not being taken seriously.

I think today is a huge day in the future of Iran. I am rooting for the good guys that want to free the people.

I predict that war will be on the streets today. The government is in serious danger of falling right now. Thomas Jefferson once said that "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think today could be that day in Iran.

Or I could just fess up about my alcohol problem.

[xubrew]

i find this interesting.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=97328&sectionid=3510211

most people reading this probably don't understand the importance of soccer to most of the rest of the world, including iran. soccer basically halted the civil war in the ivory coast. that has nothing to do with iran, but it is an example of how powerful and meaningful soccer is to other nations.

with that in mind, i can't help but wonder what the current iranian government thinks of this. fwiw, iran was eliminated from world cup qualifying earlier this month, so maybe there won't be the same level of enthusiasm toward a friendly, but still. it could still be considered as a rallying point because of the way soccer can bring so many people together....and on top of everything else, they're playing the united states. it will also get the attention of the world soccer press (because in addition to the political climates of both countries, the usa will likely be a world cup team), and as snipe pointed out earlier the press is something that the iranian government seems to want to avoid these days.

i hope snipe doesn't kill me for hijacking his thread with a reference to soccer, but it's not entirely unrelated and i did find it interesting that each side sought this out and wanted it to happen.

[Snipe]

Brew you hijacked my thread!

That is interesting. It would be cool if Iran had a new government by the time the game was played in Los Angeles. We could give the Iranian team a standing ovation.

There is violence in the streets of Iran today:

Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGcSU7FcgQw)

[bobbiemcgee]

Yeah, let the civil war begin...Ally Almondbar.

[Pablo's Brother]

We should support the protestors. The fall of the current terrorist regime would be a tremendous opportunity for peace in the Middle East. It would directly benefit the US and our only ally in the region Israel.

Also, I have it on good authority the majority of the younger protestors are Xavier fans. They also despise UD and are partly rioting because they are sick and tired of UD fans talking about how they were good in the 50’s/60’s and why Chris Wright is better than D. Brown.

[Juice]

We should support the protestors. The fall of the current terrorist regime would be a tremendous opportunity for peace in the Middle East. It would directly benefit the US and our only ally in the region Israel.

Also, I have it on good authority the majority of the younger protestors are Xavier fans. They also despise UD and are partly rioting because they are sick and tired of UD fans talking about how they were good in the 50’s/60’s and why Chris Wright is better than D. Brown.

The problem is that I think they are OSU football fans as well.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/129298/tehran_buckeye.jpg

[GoMuskies]

The problem is that I think they are OSU football fans as well.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/129298/tehran_buckeye.jpg

Nuke them.

[GuyFawkes38]

Wow, this video on this blog is simply awful:

http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2009/06/neda-face-of-a-revolution.html

The whole episode reminds me why I'm not really a "conservative" but a "liberal-human rights-conservative". Long live human rights and liberty.

[Snipe]

The woman who got shot was named Neda. I saw a picture of her and she was quite pretty. I think her death will rally many Iranians and others world wide to their cause.

Regime Change Iran: Movement Seeks to Eliminate 'Supreme Leader' Position (http://threatswatch.org/rapidrecon/2009/06/regime-change-iran-movement-se/)

The original artical was in Saudi Arabia's al-Arabiya. It is interesting to see the Iraqi cleric Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani is playing a role.

The end of the regime may be closer than some think. I know it is wishfull thinking, but Arabic papers are discussing the potential end of the regime.

[PM Thor]

The woman who got shot was named Neda. I saw a picture of her and she was quite pretty. I think her death will rally many Iranians and others world wide to their cause.

Regime Change Iran: Movement Seeks to Eliminate 'Supreme Leader' Position (http://threatswatch.org/rapidrecon/2009/06/regime-change-iran-movement-se/)

The original artical was in Saudi Arabia's al-Arabiya. It is interesting to see the Iraqi cleric Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani is playing a role.

The end of the regime may be closer than some think. I know it is wishfull thinking, but Arabic papers are discussing the potential end of the regime.

I saw the video of Nedas death, without the blurring of her face. It is horrific, watching her first collapsing to having blood stream out of her nose and mouth all while her father cries and others try to stem the bleeding.

Her death, while tragic, gives a face for which the protesters can rally and point to a specific example of governmental atrocity. She should become the face of the movement, it would be fitting.

Edit. You don't want to see the uncut version. It's disturbing.

I HATE dayton.

[XUglow]

Edit. You don't want to see the uncut version. It's disturbing.


It is disturbing. It should be disturbing.

The crack-down may get this genie back in the bottle for now, but I think that everyone has underestimated the pent up frustration of the Iranian people with the status quo.

[PM Thor]

It is disturbing. It should be disturbing.

The crack-down may get this genie back in the bottle for now, but I think that everyone has underestimated the pent up frustration of the Iranian people with the status quo.

Yeah, it's pretty disturbing, more than what I was expecting, quite honestly. At work I've seen at least half a dozen people have their last moments right in front of me. Nedas death is imagery that compares to the worst one that I witnessed. It's one of those events that will be the symbol for this uprising. I pray she didn't die in vain. The poor girl.

I HATE dayton.

[Snipe]

I can't take watching snuff films. I did see the video of her and that blood coming out of her nose and mouth was too much to take. She was standing next to her father, and you can only imagine what is going though his head as you hear people screaming. You don't have to speak the language to understand that one. It is just horrible.

Edit - I read that the government didn't allow anyone to go to her funeral.

[Pluto]

As a father of a one month old girl just reading about it is hard. There is no way I can watch film of that. My prayers go out to that father and the rest of that family.

[Snipe]

Neda Soltan

http://www.foxnews.com/images/541148/1_61_neda4_320.jpg

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-06/47641376.jpg

She was a pretty girl.

[Snipe]

Another pic. She was stunning...

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-06/neda-agha-soltan_47642233.jpg

Even when the Islamists force her to wrap that up the beauty comes right out. Stunning.

From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8113552.stm)


Her fiance, Caspian Makan, told BBC Persian TV about the circumstances of Neda's death.

She was near the area, a few streets away, from where the main protests were taking place, near the Amir-Abad area. She was with her music teacher, sitting in a car and stuck in traffic.
She was feeling very tired and very hot. She got out of the car for just for a few minutes.

Grave spaces have reportedly been set aside for those killed in Tehran clashes
And that's when it all happened.

Her fiance claims that she wasn't even a protestor, and videos at least confirm she wasn't on the front lines. She was out of the car and standing back. Her government killed her. Talk about Axis of Evil now bitches. GWB called that spade a freaking spade.

Viva the Revolution.

[XUglow]

Hmmmm... Even the people in power are acknowledging multiple provinces with more votes than people now. One popular reform candidate who won his district with 55% of the vote last time only got 4% of the vote in his home district. They are saying the "50 irregularities" didn't change the outcome. What the Iranian people now know is that the system is rigged. That is probably a tough and bitter pill to swallow.

[XUglow]

This is very cool technology.

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/wiredscience/video/231-touchtable.html

A few minutes in, they show Iran burying most of their nuclear facility in the desert.

[American X]

I found this informative:


There Is a Military Option on Iran (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204908604574332753028699432.html)

[Kahns Krazy]

This is very cool technology.

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/wiredscience/video/231-touchtable.html

A few minutes in, they show Iran burying most of their nuclear facility in the desert.

That table is cool as shit. I want one. How much?

[bobbiemcgee]

59k.........

[American X]

Shenanigans in the streets of Iran again.

[Lamont Sanford]

Shenanigans in the streets of Iran again.

Do we know if Snipe, his kids and Garvin parlayed their trip to Milwaukee with a jaunt to Tehran too???